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Socrates
28-01-2005, 01:21
NOT for Stapel until the game is over !

1v1 PBEM #9 - [u]Stapel v kryszcztov :</u>
version : C3C 1.22, "Wars'r'us" mod (tweaked)
world size : Standard
land mass : custom (mysterious and rather large)
water coverage : custom
climate : custom
temperature : custom
age : custom
barbarians : roaming
player 1 - Stapel : Germans
player 2 - kryszcztov : French
AI rivals : 6 (unspecified)
AI agression : normal
available victories : all except Wonder
difficulty : Demigod (tweaked)
culturally linked start locations : No
respawn AI players : No
preserve random seed : Yes
allow cultural conversions : Yes

map made by : Kingreno

This game will be played along rules to be defined, probably close to RBCiv rules.

Socrates
28-01-2005, 01:36
STARTING POSITION

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/kryszcztov/200512802248_Stapel-kryszcztovPII-01 3950BC StartingPosition.JPG
82.18*KB

It was almost mandatory to once use a complete mod made by a dedicated CDZer, but what is it ? A mod where most of your units will come from wonders ? Yeah yeah, I wanna try that. [groucho]

So the story is about how to invest, me likey. The starting position is rather fine, not too shabby, in fact I like it... WTF, that's an awesome start !! [eek] I've heard that we need it to beat the AI. Wait and see, Mr. AI... So the stack consisted of 2 settlers, 2 workers and 2 horsemen. We also got a plane. [hmm]

A plane. [???]

I said : a plane, a flying machine. [confused]

OH, didn't I say it already : I had never used a plane in Civ3 so far. [crazyeye] [lol] About time, thanks Kingreno ! So here it is a jet fighter, and you can see its name in the pic. It has a base on the gold mountain, so I could move it right away, which I did. But it wouldn't move like in Civ2... [blush2]

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/kryszcztov/200512802939_Stapel-kryszcztovPII-02 3950BC FighterReconnaissance.JPG
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I didn't know how to use it, so I got some help from friends, and so I ended up doing a reconnaissance, with the plane coming back to the airbase immediately. Crazily, those suckers only take pics of their goal, but do not take some during the trip. :( Lazy guys !!

I founded Paris right away, which had furs (nice). I moved the stack westwards, as I felt a cow calling there. ;) I set science on Writing at full speed.

A note on our game : we both have the same civs in terms of gameplay. We're militaristic, industrious, commercial and agricultural. [groucho] We also share the same UUs, which are listed in the ReadMe. I'll note the important changes as I update this spoiler. Stay tuned ! [goodjob]

Socrates
05-02-2005, 15:59
WE NEED TO WRITE, AND WE NEED TO BE PHILOSOPHERS, BUT WE DON'T NEED TO MAKE LAWS...

After founding Paris on turn 1, I founded Orleans on turn 4. My goal was to blitz towards Map Making, so as to get Colonial Expansion, the wonder spawning settlers. Tell's Heritage is just a prebuild in Paris.

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/kryszcztov/200525144129_Stapel-kryszcztovPII-03 3800BC TwoCities.JPG
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My 2 horsemen did minimal scouting before getting back in one city each, to act as MP. The fighter would do the reconnaissance on its own. I was prioritizing food in Paris, but it appeared I had too many shields and too little commerce for science. The Colonial Expansion costs 200 shields, and no building before that costs more than 100 shields. So I had to get Map Making before reaching 100 shields in Paris, which ended up in this setting :

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/kryszcztov/200525144527_Stapel-kryszcztovPII-04 3500BC ParisSize3.JPG
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Yeah, forget food, welcome gold mountains ! [cool] Since my goal wasn't to build any settler by hand (which meant no citizen loss), there was little point in getting as many citizens as possible. Even with this setting, 100 shields would be too little to handle, but I could also take some peasants out of their fields... resulting in less commerce... [crazyeye] I had a problem in front of me.

Nonetheless, this extra science helped me learn Writing very fast, and I got it on turn 20. :) On the same turn my capital Paris completed the Workers Workshop, originally designed for Orleans (which has switched to Tell's Heritage as a prebuild). It came true that I couldn't get Map Making before reaching 100 shields, and I didn't want to build any building before if possible.

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/kryszcztov/20052514518_Stapel-kryszcztovPII-05 3000BC WorkersWorkshop.JPG
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From now on I would get a worker for free (no citizen loss) every 3 turns, until the end of the game. [goodjob] This would mean a big upkeep from now on, but I could as well get rid of them as soon as they'd spawn. I set science on Philosophy, confident in getting it first.

Meanwhile, Paris had to build something else than the settler-wonder, since Orleans was now closer to it and had nothing great to complete that wasn't less than its current number of stored shields. I wanted military units now, and so Paris started to build... a barracks of course ! :D It was built on turn 24, and designed to be very useful for the rest of the game. On turn 28 (2630BC) I discovered Philosophy first. What did I choose as a free tech ?

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/kryszcztov/200525145623_Stapel-kryszcztovPII-06 2630BC Philosophy.JPG
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http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/kryszcztov/200525145633_Stapel-kryszcztovPII-07 2630BC MapMaking.JPG
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Map Making of course. I had now got a free tech, and learnt Map Making faster than through a direct research. [cool] Orleans was free to switch to the settler-wonder. I decided to start researching Literature, to get libraries online soon. Stapel was already leading by far in score, because he must have founded a few cities first. I needed to be the tech leader, and so libraries would greatly help me.

Socrates
19-02-2005, 21:38
PHILOSOPHERS IN A LIBRARY CAN'T BE ARSED

I continued with my radical way of playing : no hand-building of any unit ever !! [eek] On turn 30 Paris built the Tribes Council, producing a warrior every 3 turns.

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/kryszcztov/2005219201159_Stapel-kryszcztovPII-08 2550BC TribesCouncil.JPG
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The mess started soon afterwards, on turn 35, when Stapel met me with one of his initial horsemen. The situation was : 2 cities, 2 horsemen, 1 warrior, a few workers.

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/kryszcztov/2005219201430_Stapel-kryszcztovPII-09 2350BC MeetStapel.JPG
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Followed a tense chat on MSN, and the result was that I declared war on him on turn 36. He had moved on that tobacco hill, and was able to threaten my land. No fair tech deal seemed to please him, and he was reluctant to move away, so, in fear of being pillaged or worse, I attacked his puny horsie, and WTF ? it took me 2 horsemen to do the job (even after a successfull bombardment by my plane, which is a fighter only). [cry] But I understood the real motive of all of this : war happiness. This thing is so cool that it never decreases through time unless fighting occurs, and comes back from peace to war, even 500 turns afterwards, even if you declare war this time. But enough of it, I've already talked too much about this trick (at CFC) that will be fixed in my ruleset to come.

On turn 37 Paris's borders expanded again, and that popped a hut which gave me... a settler ! [cool] On turn 38 it founded my 3rd city, Lyons. Orleans eventually completed the Colonial Expansion on turn 40, a wonder spawning a settler every 3 turns (this has been the center point of my whole strategy).

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/kryszcztov/2005219202326_Stapel-kryszcztovPII-10 2150BC ColonialExpansion.JPG
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I finally met some AIs : the Romans on turn 44 (pic), the Chinese on turn 45, the Japanese on turn 46.

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/kryszcztov/2005219202711_Stapel-kryszcztovPII-11 1990BC MeetRomans.JPG
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I discovered Literature on turn 45 (1950BC), which meant a halt in science for a good while... at least this was my hope. The great settling phase was now in place. There were some urgent places to settle on, but no need to go into details :
- Rheims on turn 45, destroying a barb camp ;
- Tours on turn 50 ;
- Marseilles on turn 52 ;
- Chartres on turn 54 ;
- Avignon on turn 57.

On turn 54 Orleans built a wonder that seemed very interesting : the Mausoleum of Mausollos. Apart from its original powers, this wonder would spawn a [b]musketman every 5 turns. [eek]

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/kryszcztov/2005219203353_Stapel-kryszcztovPII-12 1650BC MausoleumOfMausollos.JPG
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I built a barracks in Orleans just after that, so that my musketmen would be veteran. Lyons also got its barracks, because it would be involved in wonders soon. I got 2 other luxuries on top of the initial furs : silks on turn 57, and gems on turn 58. They were my priorities in the settling plan. On turn 58 (1550BC) Paris completed the Great Library, finishing it with a lot of shields per turn.

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/kryszcztov/2005219203725_Stapel-kryszcztovPII-13 1550BC GreatLibrary.JPG
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Pastorius
19-02-2005, 21:58
[crazyeye]


Great name for the plane [lol]

Weird strategy. Interesting nonetheless

Rik Meleet
20-02-2005, 04:52
I would be worried about Stapel's horse reaching you already. He is either too close for comfort or he has travelled very far, meeting many AI's.

Not to mention the 50% lead in score ...

Socrates
28-03-2005, 19:52
I lost all my data (saves, screenshots, log text) in my HD crash. Here is a summary of what happened so far (from my memory). Too bad, as this mod was the occasion of a detailed spoiler...

Let's sum up different things... we're on turn 100.

- Cities : As can be seen in the pic below, I'm nearing completion of my land. The settler-spawning wonder does a very decent job. AIs sent settlers in my backyard, and so I had to declare war on them.

- Diplo front : I'm currently at war with Stapel, Romans, Chinese, Persians and Indians. [:o] They're weaker than I could have expected. It seems Kingreno were too nice with us. ;)

- Science : I'm in the process of discovering one tech every 4 turns. My top techs are Education (quickly researched by Stapel to end my Library advantage) and Invention (monopoly). Stapel and some AIs have Chivalry, Banking and Astronomy. I'm not in a hurry to get them, because my pace is good enough... and the wonder environment changes many things. So I'm not buying nor selling anything now.

- Wonders : Of the great wonders I only built the Library and the Mausoleum (one musketman every 5 turns forever). Small wonders include :
-&gt; in Paris : Tribes Council (warriors, obsolete), Iron Maiden (swordsmen, obsolete), Ashcroft (horsemen, soon obsolete with Chivalry), Training Fortress (pikemen), Workers Workshop (never obsolete) ;
-&gt; in Orleans : Statue of Zeus (ancient cavs), Tell's Heritage (archers, curiously never obsolete, though one could have imagined it would with Invention), Colonial Expansion (settlers, YEAH), Defenders Legacy (impies) :
-&gt; in Lyons : Guardhouse (spearmen, obsolete) ;
-&gt; in Tours : the FP !!! :)

- Resources : I have 5 luxes, a 6th one would allow me to put lux from 10% to 0%, but I'd need to trade or conquer for that... Anyway I have tons of gold, thanks to the Library. I also have horses and iron of course.

- Army : It is average to Stapel's army. He got more units earlier, but also used them to fight some AIs. This means he is surely losing some units, whereas I'm trying to save as much as I can... for him. [groucho] The thing for me is to go fast on the tech tree, so as to get better units, instead of building everything.

- Culture : I'm number 1 by far. If only wonders would still give some culture once obsolete... I do not understand this. I could have tried a 20K victory... forcing Stapel to go get some fighting.

- Stapel : He built the Great Wall and the Sistine Chapel, both giving some units. He's now in his Golden Age. I'm trying to keep mine for later. The con is that he'll probably get many medieval wonders. The pro is that I can save the Golden Age for the Industrial Era... while still enjoying 4-turn research. I've recently catched up Stapel on population (still 1st in F11), and commerce IIRC (that was before his GA).

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/kryszcztov/200532818520_Stapel-kryszcztovPII-101 550BC HDCrash.JPG
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Pastorius
28-03-2005, 19:59
Macedome is a MI producing wonder thingie?
Lots of people moving around there. How is upkeep treating you?

Socrates
28-03-2005, 20:15
Macedome is for mace, or medieval infantry, or MDI, yes. And Robin Hood is for... longbowmen. :D

On turn 100, without MMing (beginning of turn), I was at 10% lux and 90% science, 3579 gold in treasury, but going at -155 gpt. The unit upkeep was 114 gpt. But at the end of the turn I wasn't doing much science, as Chivalry is quite cheap now.

Socrates
03-04-2005, 01:45
Things are moving in this game !

The land filling is nearing completion, I'm currently naming new cities after Napoleon's victories (also Paris's metro stations). :D

I'm catching up Stapel in science, though he keeps telling me I'm so backwards. I can learn techs in 4 turns by making money, and found it good to research a tech for say 2 turns at max, and then buying it from an AI for a mere 12 gold (already did it twice with Japan) : that's because in 2 turns I gather more beakers than necessary. [thumbsup] I have no big fear to let Stapel learn techs at first price, as I'm late in wonders, and they are the substance of this game. We both have Astronomy and Banking, and he's up Gunpowder and soon Chemistry on me (remember Stapel has few classified files when you chat with him on MSN). I'll probably be able to get Gunpowder in 2 turns as well.

I entered my Golden Age on turn 105 (450BC), using an Ansar warrior against the Chinese. I had tried to keep it for later for so many turns (Swiss mercenaries weren't used for useful defense, which was hard), but now it became bad to delay it even further. My cities are all on infra push (they were before, but faster now) : libs, markets, unis and banks are starting to flourish everywhere.

I got a MGL against the Chinese, with a mace. The name is in badly written and pronouced French, and should mean "But it's magnificient !", with a pun on "mace". Yeah that's meaningless. [blush2]

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/kryszcztov/20054302715_Stapel-kryszcztovPII-102 490BC MGL01.JPG
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I chose to have an army with it. I filled in 3 Ansars, and so it's now a 6/3/4 unit with 12 hp (13 now), if I'm not mistaken. I could have rushed a small wonder, but an army opens up more opportunities, like the Heroic Epic, and later the Military Academy. [groucho]

The fighter has lethal sea bombardment, even in standard C3C, so I could sink the 3 barb galleys that were annoying me.

I eventually could get the Roman city of Lutetia ( [mischief] on the name) for peace present, so I made peace with Rome and took the city, which will need no garrison (no risk of flip). It is located just south of Dijon.

I also made peace with Persia, who was starting to send units to Lutetia, and also with India. I should make it harder for Stapel, who is currently destroying some AIs. I found out I could make a lux deal with Persia, so I gave them Education for their wines. They must know a land+sea route, as I lack exploration data. This allowed me to drop down the lux slider to zero. Some cities suffer from it a little, but with the Golden Age, they'll soon have their markets (6 luxes with a market give 12 "happy guys", making 6 unhappy citizens happy).

I haven't built another small wonder yet, though more will come soon. Stapel has a slightly better army. He has 50% more land than me, though most of it is just junk cities. I'm just under him in population, though F11 sometimes claims otherwise (I have greater cities). He leads me on shields (he is still in Golden Age), though some of it comes from junk cities, and I lead him on gold when I go full science. The Golden Age is the opportunity for some very delicate micro-managing time.

My forces are in the north-west of Marseilles, slowly gathering before crushing the Chinese riders. Having an unexpected 6th lux from trading cooled down my will to crush the Chinese, as their dyes were an important reason for not making peace with them now.

Socrates
16-04-2005, 17:09
Things are starting to get in control now. I'm still in my Golden Age, and my core cities are finishing or finished building important improvements. I built the Copernicus in Paris in 370BC. But Stapel got Leonardo ; fortunately, I don't badly need this sicount on upgrading, given the way I play this game : no rushing and no unit-building ever. [cool]The only thing my cities do is hand-build improvements and wonders.

Oh, did I tell you this map doesn't allow movement from east to west ? This enables us to unguard our backyard.

I quite catched up Stapel in science, I even discovered Physics first, but sold it to Japan for a lot of money, so Stapel got it too. He probably went for Metallurgy, but I'm now ablr to get it from Japan too, so we're even in that matter. Next turn I'll discover Theory of Gravity first, and will have to switch Paris (first city) to Newton immediately (using the big picture feature), otherwise I lose my prebuild capabilities... [blush2]

War against the Chinese is going well, I got a 2nd leader with an Ansar warrior.

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/kryszcztov/200541616628_Stapel-kryszcztovPII-103 290BC MGL02.JPG
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I used him for an army, filled with Ansars (so, all my 6 Ansars are used in my 2 armies). I destroyed a Chinese city, and my settlers are settling the area (remember I have one settler every 3 turns). I also connected the Chinese land to mine with roads, which will be great to get to Stapel one day. :) There are 3 land bridges to the west, I'm locking the ones in the center and in the south with musketeers on mountains (and soon with fortresses). The north bridge is where I'm fighting the Chinese (no jungle there).

Rik Meleet
16-04-2005, 18:07
Can you post a minimap ?

Socrates
16-04-2005, 18:41
Here is a minimap from the latest turn (turn 120, ie. 150BC) :

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/kryszcztov/2005416173758_Stapel-kryszcztovPII-104 150BC Minimap.JPG
6.48KB

Yep, I lack exploration...

I forgot to tell you that Stapel recently eliminated the feeble Babylonians from the game, he's leading by far in territory, but I don't care much because I have almost as much population (roughly 25% each).

My army is located between the pink and turquoise parts.

Socrates
31-07-2005, 00:21
We're at turn 139 now. Yup, it's becoming very slow, Stapel is mainly holding the save, and I myself take from 1 to 2 hours to play my turns. ;) This is because I manage every penny of every city. That's the way I play, and my only hope to win.

Basically, I'm well into the industrial age, I'm the clear tech leader, about 2 techs ahead of Stapel. I'm doing 4-turn research and have about 10,000 dollars in my bank account. I'm carrying on with my odd idea : I have so far never built any unit, and never rushed anything. [eek] [lol] All my units come from those wonders, and those are built by shields only.

Stapel is however the clear military leader, and a few turns ago he landed to the extreme south of my empire (see minimap in the previous post), with 5 cav armies and 1 musket army !! [cry] He keeps them on top of a mountain and goes kill my musketeers in the city nearby before retiring to the mountain under the protection of the muskets. He even sent 2 more cav armies last turn !! Leader fishing... I've already lost around 22 muskets IIRC, and next turn there will be a new wave. I won't be able to hold much longer, but fortunately in 2 turns I get Replaceable Parts ! :)

Stapel also made one mistake : he researched non-mandatory Nationalism, which I think is a trap, because he obsoletes 3 unit-spawning wonders, and allows a rifle-spawning wonder which obsoletes with ReP Parts. My 3 wonders will continue to spawn forever... I'll just have to upgrade them. That is when Stapel told me something brilliant on MSN : "I consider knowing the rules cheating." [lol] Nonetheless, I won't have much to upgrade to infantry, so I'll see how it evolves.

Meanwhile, railroads are built everywhere, and some factories are already working. After that I'll have to quickly build other military wonders and not forget 2 important things : Darwin and Hoover. These are being carefully planned... I also know the world map more or so, but Stapel shouldn't know my land.

So, to sum it up : it's Stapel the warmonger versus krys the builder. Like if it was ever a surprise. [mischief]

(P.S. : I'm too lazy to make better spoilers now, I feel ashamed.)

Socrates
01-08-2005, 04:27
Turn 140, and Stapel has landed an 8th cav army there !! [cry] I'm 1 turn from Rep Parts but I've never been so desperate in this game. I think I'm gonna lose this game, and that will be a good lesson for stupid me.

Stapel told me he got so many leaders by doing leader-fishing with the Persians. But his fishing activity is somewhat at the industrial level now... And that stupid AI will never stop sending shitload of units at him, and Stapel will never get enough leaders ! In the meantime, I got 2 leaders, used for feeble Ansar armies, against the Chinese, who I'm still at war with, because I want their dyes.

So now, infantry isn't the miraculous solution to the problem, and I'm starting to think about defeat. Too bad, because my empire is one whole level above Stapel's empire regarding economy and production. :( But that's not important, only those armies are.

Yeah, I have to whine every little while, so as to stick to my so-called reputation. [lol]

Socrates
01-08-2005, 21:02
Another turn, 18 units killed or so, according to Stapel's very detailed battle logs. [blush2] Just got Rep Parts, but it's too late. Stapel has already built the Pentagon, and now has many 4-cav armies, which are 16-hp (or more) units with attack 12 and defense 6. [cry] Next turn he'll probably get 2 cities, and afterwards there will nothing, absolutely nothing to stop him.

So I'll probably get a 2nd defeat next turn. I'll post pics blah blah... I enjoyed MMing for hundreds of hours just to get crushed like that. [goodjob]

Socrates
01-08-2005, 23:36
Turn 142 : end of story, don't want to bleed anymore. My 2 armies injured the musket army down to 1 hp in Lutetia, a city taken during the IT. And the cavs that went next had to fight cav armies and all died. With such odds, there's nothing left to do :

CONGRATS MONSIEUR STAPEL !!! [goodjob]

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/kryszcztov/200581223619_Stapel-kryszcztovPII-EndOfStory.jpg
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Stapel
02-08-2005, 16:11
A few notes from the victor!

I’ve been lame with my own spoiler. If people want to, I might consider making it anyway. There was one turn absolutely worth it: 4 leaders. I wouldn’t be too surprised I can get the order right again. This might sounds to be incredibly lucky, but it wasn’t (I’ll explain).

After discussing the game with Krys, we concluded the main difference was military build-up AND the actual use of it.

Already in the early game, both Krys and I discovered the AI was sucky.
After some time, I noticed the symmetry of the map. I concluded I should fight my two neighbours in the middle (east of me, west of Krys). The overkill of units (due to the extra wonders) would make this game extremely suitable for leader fishing. A possible meet in the middle seemed likely.

Now, I understand this sounds a bit patronising, but Krys apparently did not make the same conclusion about leader fishing. Later, when 4 turn tech research was possible I did use all my money to rush cavs, whereas he decided to put 10000 gold on the bank.

The war against the Indians brought me some nice lands, without any serious fighting. The Indians were very poorly defended. For that reason, I made peace, and declared war to the Babs (the Indians and Babs were the two centre civs. The babs were more suitable for leader fishing. A gazillion victories brought me one leader. One fucking leader when the Babs were dead! The leader created an army of course. I hand built my FP and any other useful stuff.

So, I declared war to the Indians again. Not to take land, but to fish. No success…
In the meantime, I had spread my lands towards the middle of the map, giving my self a harbour city, useful to ship units to Krys. Since the Indians were drying up as a source for leader fishing, I collected a massive force of mainly elite units (horsemen, ancient cavs, some regular cavs) and cannons in my middle harbour city. This city was south of the middle, on a small stroke of land, thus bordering the Persian and Roman empires. Especially the Persian empire. I think the Persians declared war to me, but I don’t exactly recall.
I finally had my fun!
Hordes of archers, longbowmen, immortals, spearmen and whatever obsolete shit they had were sent to me. (At this point, I was mass-funding my forces by rushing cavs. All my core cities were on military)
A few turns later, I had six armies. I filled one with mousquetaires, and the rest with cavs. They set sail to Krys. While sailing (and fighting) to Krys, the leader fishing continued, of course.

Now, I actually did not expect to achieve anything. I had pretty much gambled on a run to mil-trad, while expanding to the earlier mentioned centre harbour city, and hit Krys with dozens of cavs. But the tech path was so damn fast…. When I had mil-trad, the city wasn’t there yet……
Here I had cavs, but no possibility to ship my cavs to Krys. My opportunity was fucked.

However, I figured losing my armies (later), while doing some damage, or at least annoyance, to Krys was better than keeping them and paying for upkeep. At this time, Steam Power was around.

When I landed, Krys asked for peace.
Lesson ONE in PBEM: Don’t make peace when someone asks for it, after an assault ;) .
I could kill defending units turn after turn. I was really figuring why there was no counter attack (later, Krys told me he hadn’t built any units at all, just his wonder-produced units).

A funny detail:
I had nationalism. Before I had it, Krys had a few riflemen. But I could still send it to him. It appeared the Newton wonder produced them. Krys told me nationalism was a trick, that ended 3 small wonders. From that moment on, I realised he would not go for nationalism, and THUS never have espionage. This knowledge increased my enthousiasm incredibly.
While Krys was thinking he was a few techs a head, I was near espionage! Man, I loved to see that.

I had a northern invasion group of 15 cavs, waiting to go for a possible RailRoadRape and was 2 turns from espionage. I had changed all university builds to banks, and was waiting for a brilliant industrial age game.

But then, after killing defending units for free a couple of turns, Krys surrendered.

Stapel
02-08-2005, 16:18
quote:Originally posted by kryszcztov

Stapel also made one mistake : he researched non-mandatory Nationalism, which I think is a trap, because he obsoletes 3 unit-spawning wonders, and allows a rifle-spawning wonder which obsoletes with ReP Parts. My 3 wonders will continue to spawn forever... I'll just have to upgrade them.
I only had two of those wonders anyway...
But more important: You obviously do not understand the power of espionage. I learnt it the hard way vs Aggie. In fact, it's too bad you did not get a chance this game to learn it the hard way.
Stealing techs is extremely lucrative!

Kemal
02-08-2005, 16:36
Well, you are still in another game that has already reached the industrial age, and you have nationalism there too... perhaps time to play that one again, then? ;)

Socrates
02-08-2005, 16:47
If you want to post a few pics in this thread and not make an entire spoiler, go ahead, it'll be interesting.

The AIs were really, really sucky, but it took me some time to conquer land to the Chinese because of my strategy of not building any unit.

I reckon I didn't think about leader-fishing. My playstyle is somewhat academic regarding anything else than micromanaging (because I think that never build any unit and never rush anything is rather non-academic). I thought you would have more armies than me, but in the end it was almost insulting. [mischief] I would have used all my gold on upgrade if Stapel had landed 10 turn later. He had Leo's BTW.

Stapel, if you want to know why I asked for peace (or, to be more precise, a ceasefire where you would have kept your war happiness), just play some more Diplomacy. The word you're searching is bluff. :D But at that point I still believed that I could break your armies to pieces as you advanced towards the next cities. I wanted to impress you with my soon-to-come infantries, but I knew I had to keep a bunch of musketeers for upgrading, otherwise no infantry. The immediate reason why I abandonned is the units and armies you sent to me in later waves, that was too much. On the last turn my 2 Ansar armies failed to kill the musketeer army in Lutetia by 1 hp, maybe my former cannons saved it for you. :(

Dude, Espionage ? [eek] Didn't think of that. What can I say ? I play academically, and Espionage never mastered I have. I don't need it against the AI (well, long time I haven't played a hard game vs the AI), and my PBEMs are all over by the middle of the indutrial age. I still think Nationalism isn't good, or at least toned down in this mod. You would have stolen techs, I would have researched ahead of you, since my economy was a lot better. Darwin and Hoover were already planned. I would have built Darwin on the turn I got Corporation, giving me Atomic Theory and Electronics (the usual trick), and Hoover would have come just 1 turn afterwards. :) Espionage ? I'll never learn it, because Civ3 is ending for me, and Civ4 I can hear you. [mischief]

I would also have lived a great industrial age, but the break was done regarding military.

Oh, to be noted : industrious slaves aren't "industrious" before Rep Parts (they work 3 times slower than workers), but after Rep Parts they're "industrious" at last, working twice slower than those fast workers, ie. 3 times faster than pre-RP slaves, ie. as fast as pre-RP workers. [crazyeye]