CRP Suite by Dianthus and PBEMs

[Pastorius]

I just downloaded the latest CRP suite from Dianthus and installed it.

And, testing some files to see what this tool does, I found a shocking discovery:

I loaded the last turn played in my first game with GA - which I won.
AND I COULD SEE HIS TERRITORY WITH THE VIEWER FUNCTION!!!

in fact, I could uncheck the spoiler options for the viewer and by that also see MY TERRITORY (since I opened the last file I played, the game and the viewer assumes that GA is the next player, and shows his territory)

This discovery lead me to: [eek] and [cry][blink][scared2]

I know that it is with some obscure method possible to tamper with a save - and as Kemal demonstrated, it is also possible to detect such tampering. But with this possibility, I fear that Dianthus has gone too far in development. CRP seems to be a good tool to calculate city placement, but one should not be allowed to view the opposing civs lands at all

[Kemal]

Agreed, though the problem is of course that any external program that gives info not accessible within the (multiplayer) game becomes problematic for people particpating in competitive MP games, while on the other hand many more people are looking for these utilities to enhance their SP gaming experience.
From early versions of mapstat to Ainwood's civ-assistant, and this program to even some graphic mods, they all give too much info and therefore cause problems when used in (competitive) MP games, in my opinion.

Not much to do about it though I'm afraid, except alerting the creators to see what they think of it, and those that are active in the MP environment (as you just have :)) about the problems these programs can cause, and mutually agree not to use them.

[Pastorius]

Dianthus says the program should prompt for player password, so I uploaded a sav for him to check over @ CFC

[grahamiam]

did you use the viewer or mapstat?

[Pastorius]

Viewer. Thing is that after installing it, all sav files changed icons and the windows open with option says open with dianthus application.

So I suppose the default for sav files is to be opened with the viewer...

[grahamiam]

the viewer can look at any save file and show you the progress of the game from 4000bc. that way, you could take games from the same start, played by different people, and compare. he actually makes files that include the top 25 in each CFC gotm so you can look at 2 simultaneously. very useful for improving your game but it also assumes that you have access to the file after everything is done and submitted, a la GoTM. pbem posses a much bigger problem that would be nice if he addressed.

i think (and you'll have to get Dianthius to confirm) that he was only looking at mapstat for multiplayer, so that the players can get an instant read on cities about to riot, deals available, flip risks, cultural buildup, and land/pop percentages. my guess is he probably overlooked the fact that for his viewer program and in pbem, you get your opponents save every turn.

edit: just read the thread @ CFC and it looks like he's on it. it was the rings program that he seems to have missed, which is not very useful in C3C.

[Pastorius]

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=52902&page=39&pp=20

Discussion @ CFC with Dianthus

Rings is definitely not useful in C3C, but as it is right now, it is a "backdoor".

[grs]

The whole thing is a backdoor :) There have already been many versions that had no protection for multiplayer files. It is somewhere in the big thread at CFC.

[anarres]

But aren't those versions at least removed now? :(

[Pastorius]

I talked to both Ainwood and Dianthus about this earlier - long before CRp 2.8.2 and CivAssist 10, and both of them said their programs did not support MP saves.

Tried once before, and then the program said that multiplayer files are not supported. I think that was with v2.5 or 2.6 or so. Ainwood also said he wasnt going to add mp support if he did not get massive requests for it. So I thought this was entirely new to those apps. Guess I was wrong

AFAIK Dianthus at least does not host more than the 2 most recent builds. And if I know TF and Ainwood right - there is not many more versions than a couple of builds @ CFC for CivAssist either.

Reason I posted here first, then asked Dianthus in his thread is that threads @ CFC are too large like grs says. And with the strain on their bandwith + no search it is nearly impossible to use CFC anymore...

[Ginger_Ale]

CivAssist has never supported MP - you can't even load saves in it that are MP saves.

I fear someone will still have access to CRp Suite via web.archive.org :(

[akots]

Never used the replay utility except about a year ago when it just came out to analyze the GOTM results. Actually, it helped to improve a lot! I was positive that starting from patch 1.22 of C3C, the utilities have been essentially fixed regarding the multiplayer. But iirc, in version 1.15 of C3C, it was quite possible to open the saves with it without password.

The only real thing people might consider using is MapStat. And seems that all MP bugs have been essentially fixed there. But you never know. [sad]

[Pastorius]

Since Dianthus is fixing the hole in Rings - which I guess I found by accident, then at least we can try to plug all holes and make it less likely that people fall to temptation.

Mapstat should be good - quicker than counting and guessing yourself, like some of you guys do... ;)


Edit:

Version 2.9.0 of CRp is out. Several things have been added, so it should be worth a looksie :)

Good grief! I am stupid posting old threads, perhaps some kind admin could remove my posting priveldges before I bore the arse off these guys talking about poker.

[banned]

[meli]

[grahamiam]

anarres plays poker, doesn't he?

[BCLG100]

so does rik

[Matrix]

No, Rik plays bridge. [nono]