View Full Version : Dead desktop cannibalized: silent PC talk is here
Please send all PBEM savs to: siebe AT haagsma DOT biz.
Today my desktop PC started to show weird behaviour. It will power itself down while somewhere in the bootsequence. First time it happened was in the Windows Startup sequence (the programs listed in the Startup Tab of msconfig.exe), after a few attempts it would not even reach graphic mode before powering itself down.
Been able to boot in Safe mode for a while, even had Internet Connection but now it even can't complete Safe mode boot. Even worse, pressing the power button now results in a short hiss by the fan, then it is dead again.
Weird thing is that the problem always is a powerdown but it happens at different points in the boot process. I would assume a HW problem would result in the same behaviour all the time. A virus would require at least some parts of Windows to be loaded, same for the OS.
Anyone has a clue?
The case of the comp is over 5 years old but CPU, motherboard and memory were replaced 3 years ago and other major components after that. The oldest functional part of the system is the floppy. Maybe leaving the comp always switched on doesn't extend its life but I would expect different behaviour if something was broken.
Buying a new one always is nice of course but the current one was powerfull enough for everything it had to do.
It could be the power supply. I had a similar problem with mine a year ago, but to be honest, that is just a wild guess. It seems very probable to be some hardware problem.
Desktop still isn't doing nothing at startup, I'll wait til friday for a miracle. Guess a new one is needed.
Did a quick check on what prices are. This is from the MyCom website.
quote: 664035 MyCom Adventure Family 1 € 1.220,05 € 1.220,05
66034 CoolerMaster Centurion 5 (recommended case)
74131 ASUS K8N (motherboard)
56928 AMD Athlon 64 3400+ (not the fastest but good value for money)
57015 Corsair 1 GB DDR SDRAM Twinx XMS3200
55482 Western Digital WD1600JB
50201 AOpen CRW-5232 (cheapest CR-R thing as I bought a DVD writer just months ago)
41523 Sapphire ATLANTIS 9800 PRO, 128 MB (video, should be 256 MB)
73429 Hauppauge TV-tuner card (why not)
82026 Apacer Embedded Card Reader 2.0
70480 Logitech Internet Pro (keyboard, want to get rid of the piece of shit in use now)
48320 Logitech Premium Optical Wheel Mouse (black, same color as the keyboard)
23456 Microsoft Windows XP Home Editie (can buy without but if you've been through the process of installing all drivers yourself once your're not looking forward to the next time
One of the other things high on the wishlist is a very, very quiet PC. Does anyone have experience with watercooling, is it much more expensive than fancooling, reliability, maintenance?
Hi - come on MSM if you are here! I may know your problem. :)
Also I know LOTS about silent running!!!! My 1.7GHz CPU has no fan!
LOL, need to install a chat client on the laptop first. Will try the MSN one for a change.
My suggestion: if you are going to spend a lot of money anyways and want a quiter processor you should forget about AMD. They just get to hot.
Rik Meleet
13-01-2005, 11:50
If you lose power "as if the cable was suddenly removed from the wallsocket" or your PC shuts down. makes a difference.
Also what matters is if your PC powers up again by itself or that you need to use the powerbutton to switch it back on, also makes a difference.
What might be important as well is what brand of CPU you own; Intel or AMD. If Intel gets too hot it just "freezes" and stops, but no permanent damage is done to it. If an AMD gets too hot it fries and goes dead. But AMD can cope with higher temps than intel. AMD 600 Mhz - 3,2Ghz can usually cope with 85 to even 90 deg Celsius (Athlon 64 only with 70 deg Celsius), while Intel pentium 4 has a critical temp of around 65 deg Celsius. Pentium 3 about 68 deg Celsius and Intel Celerons around 70.
digger760
13-01-2005, 13:07
Could be a heat related issue....maybe a CPU fan has gone and the CPU over heats an shuts down. If your PC is 5 years old and you leave it running all the time..its a good bet that if the fans have not carked it it..then they will very soon. Its a simple thing to check...make sure CPU and Power Suppy fans are spinning ok on the boot up.
Yup, sounds like a heating problem at first glance. Maybe try to work with an open case and install a big room fan next to it, that might get it up and running for a while. Check for temperature differences in the bios in case of with or without fan. GL!
Rik Meleet
13-01-2005, 18:03
quote:Please send all PBEM savs to: siebe AT haagsma DOT biz.
It is full; my save bounced ...
The thing was granted one night to change behaviour but this morning nothing had changed. @Rik, it is like removing the powercable from the socket.
So it is considered dead and today I took the decision to by a new box. Plan was to shop around a little today and tomorrow.
So I went to the local MyCom shop, an hour later I was standing outside again having placed the order for a custom build system. Why no further shopping:
- The guy I spoke with really took his time and was very knowledgable. He listened very well and gave best value for the buck recommendations. Like alternatives for a very silent system.
- They will use my current Ati Radeon and Sony DVD Writer, really good service and saving me money.
- My previous experience with them is good.
The system is centered around an AMD Athlon 64 3500+, 939 socket, Asus MB with Serial ATA. Case is a Coolermaster with a 17cm (7 inch) case fan to reduce noise as far as possible. 1 GB RAM. Maxtor 160GB HD. Noise is further reduced by a Zalman CPU fan and Zalman passive Dual Heatpipe VGA Cooler. All assembled and fully installed. Also ordered a new KB and Rat as the current are well used.
Ready by Monday! :)
Thanks to anarres for all his help last night and recommendations getting a very silent system. The fans of both the case and the CPU cooler are impressively large! This means they can turn at low revs thus saving noise.
Pricetag 1100 euros, because of MyComs service I got better components while saving money. :) Who said custom build is expensive.
Hi. This is the qmail-send program at aj.protagonist.nl.
I'm afraid I wasn't able to deliver your message to the following addresses. This is a permanent error; I've given up. Sorry it didn't work out.
<siebe&&&&&haagsma&&&&biz>:
Recipient's mailbox is full, message returned to sender. (#5.2.2)
--- Below this line is a copy of the message.
@Rik, erikk
Cleared mailbox so it should be working now.
I am setting up Eudora as mail client on the laptop atm and it works. (Boss has blocked use of Outlook). I'm about to create an account for CDZ mail, can someone please tell me the name of the POP server? TIA!
Deleted the pic.
There is an entire email thread by ProPain.
well, the server is mail.civ3duelzone.com. :)
anar, you will love this:
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Beam/2005114141158_clearance-av8.jpg
86.62*KB
Zalman 12 cm CPU cooler with full copper radiator. Weight's almost a kilo. (The one shown in the pic has mixed copper and alu in the radiator btw)
Pastorius
14-01-2005, 14:57
Not that I wanna hijack the thread, but anyone got a recommendation on a good cabinet fan. I tend to get overheated myself...
AMD for CPU @ 1.7ghz, no cabinet fan whatsoever.
Have a look at some of the Zalman products. They offer a wide variety of cool stuff including case fans. Just make sure what size you can fit.
Rik Meleet
14-01-2005, 16:05
Cool fan !!!!!
Nice beam! Now all you need is a temperature monitor (you get hardware ones very cheap now), then you can get your fan to kick in to action only when needed. :)
Paal - you shouldn't need a case fan at all, unless you are running a GForce4 and a couple of hot hard disks with that AMD...
You mean something like this?
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Beam/2005114163757_1580b9f49fabf943be1cc8cce0d08b19.jpg
22.07KB
Can handle 4 fans. Temperature monitoring and fan control from idle to full throttle. Should bolt it to the floor, might lift off otherwise.
The case has 2 fans, one (8cm) at the front getting cool air in and cooling the HDs, one (12cm) at the back to get hot air out. CPU cooler is the 3rd one.
Pic of the case and the 12cm fan at the back. The front is made of perforated alu to support airflow.
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Beam/2005114165029_casefront.jpg
67.32KB
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Beam/2005114165048_slots.jpg
37.3KB
The ASUS A8V Deluxe MB really is a nice thing with features like Cool and Quiet. It can monitor and control 2 fans so I'm not yet sure I need a seperate controller for that.
The MB also comes with 1GBs Ethernet and even better an 802.11 Wireless Access Point! Also build in 7.1 Sound System and lots of overclocking options.
digger760
14-01-2005, 17:04
quote:Originally posted by Beam
The case has 2 fans, one (8cm) at the front getting cool air in and cooling the HDs, one (12cm) at the back to get hot air out. CPU cooler is the 3rd one.
Did'nt you mention a 17cm fan earlier...or was that a typo?
quote:Originally posted by digger760
quote:Originally posted by Beam
The case has 2 fans, one (8cm) at the front getting cool air in and cooling the HDs, one (12cm) at the back to get hot air out. CPU cooler is the 3rd one.
Did'nt you mention a 17cm fan earlier...or was that a typo?
My own unreadable notes written at the shop actually.
BTW - did you go for a quieter PSU? They are a large part of the noise. Enemax is the best known 'quiet' brand. :)
No, or not yet. According to a review by a site focussing on silencing PC's the PSU is a bit noisy but a fan replacement could be enough to solve that. They were very harsh about the 8 cm fan at the front and MyCom will replace it with a 5 euro Zalman. I'll evaluate the PSU noise once it is running here. :)
Here's the review, they got a lot of good articles on noise reduction, recommended!
http://www.silentpcreview.com/article200-page1.html
Pastorius
14-01-2005, 23:38
quote:Originally posted by anarres
Paal - you shouldn't need a case fan at all, unless you are running a GForce4 and a couple of hot hard disks with that AMD...
I was running Gforce4, but they swapped it for some other model when the first one broke down (remember the tale of the century ;) )
It may also be my harddrive or little termal paste. I dont think termal paste should be an issue, since the tech guy applied a bunch last spring.
I have the Gforce FX5700 now, but I suppose that also tends to overheat?
Again sorry to Beam for hijacking [evil]
quote:
Can handle 4 fans. Temperature monitoring and fan control from idle to full throttle. Should bolt it to the floor, might lift off otherwise.
[lol]
quote:Again sorry to Beam for hijacking.
No prob, nice to share some info and thoughts about HW. I assume the Gforce4 is a real good additional heater in Norwegian winter. ;)
@anar, thanks for the tip on Enermax, they make nice stuff and I could get a 325W Noisetaker for about 65 Euri.
Pastorius
15-01-2005, 00:34
The Norwegian winter is pretty warm this year. I blame it on all the pollution coming from Anarres and Dr.Ali [:p]
BTW- did you see Norway do well lately. Ervik is in quite good shape, and the other one - Grødum or whatever his name is, is also doing well. Damned dutch hegemony in speedskating soon to end.
More on topic: Did you also get a new tower for all your impressive hardware? That pic of yours certainly does not look like standard stuff...
Grødum did an excellent 10k at the EC in Thialf, if he keeps on developing like this he is a OC candidate in 2006!
All that stuff indeed will be in a new tower, it is all about airflow.
digger760
17-01-2005, 09:19
its been a while since i was a regular reader of silentpcreview but iirc whiloe Enermax made good power supplies they were'nt exactly silent...it was just marketing fluff that gave that impression. That said i have an Enermax PSU and have replaced the fan with much quiter fan....i think the brand was a panaflow fan, but there are different types, some quite some not so quite.
Anyhow i think there are better power-supplies out there and i am sure they are listed in silentpcreview. It is possible to but fanless power supplies..but i think you need some sort of means to exaust hot air from the case. So to exaust from the PSU would be the most efficient location (being at the top of the case where hot air rise to. Try and find a PSU with a 120mm fan (and make sure it will fit the case)
If you want a really silent PC look here. http://www.deltatronic.de/
Checked it grs, nice stuff but a little expensive. A system according to my specs would cost twice as much with Deltatronic.
Picked the new PC up late in the afternoon. [dance] Installing all kinds of software again, it is freaking fast!
Although I am very content with the whole package there are 2 issues:
- Not enough 12V connections near the bottom part. So the old 80GB harddisk is connected to one of the CD-R connectors.
- All fans are running max. speed so can't call it quiet. Have to sort that out. Most noise comes from the fan at the front.
anar, you told me earlier you are using something to monitor and control fan speed and temp, exactly what are you using for that?
What are the specs of your new pc?
digger760
18-01-2005, 11:46
quote:Originally posted by Beam
All fans are running max. speed so can't call it quiet.
Hehehe..a common symtom of a marketing shpeel. Although these things comes with variable speed fans...the speed is often controlled by a poorly located thermistor which even when the PC is idle means the fans spin a full thottle (example my Enermax power supply)
My solution was to replace the fan with a quite panaflow fan (12db), and i also have the option to undervolt it to run at lower speed...but there was not much point when my graphics card fan was dominating the system..and i was reluctant to change that one.
I can't remember the make of the one I have, but here is a list of fan control devices at www.scan.co.uk:
http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/Products.asp?CatID=10&Category=Coolers&ThumbNails=Yes&FilterCategories=339&FilterManufacturers=&FilterMinPrice=&FilterMaxPrice=&FilterKeywords=
digger760
18-01-2005, 12:35
Komplett has some as well...if you to prefer to spend in Euro's ;)
http://www.komplett.ie/k/kl.asp?bn=10539
Mine has a temp display and alarm for up to 8 fans.
* Each fan has a temperature sensor
* Each fan can be set to 'enable'/'disable'
* If set to 'disable' fan is powered down
* Also 'on'/'off' for each fan.
* If 'enabled' and 'on' fan is permanently on
* If 'enabled' and 'off' fan will only come on when the temp for that fan has been reached. An alarm (beep) also sounds when temp is reached.
* Temp settings are individual for each fan
This cost me £30 a couple of years ago - since then hundreds of new models have emerged and you can choose precisely what you want from it. I would suggest one that controls at least 4 fans, and if you can get one with variable power that is even better.
When I got my zalmann CPU heatsink+fan it came with a variable resistor so I could vary the speed of the fan. You can also get these for about £2 each now, and they will work with any 3-pin fan and can also make it much quieter.
FWIW I also got an enermax power supply digger - mine has 2 fans, so I just removed the one of them and made the other one variable speed (which is controlled manually inside the case).
digger760
18-01-2005, 13:00
quote:Originally posted by anarres
FWIW I also got an enermax power supply digger - mine has 2 fans, so I just removed the one of them and made the other one variable speed (which is controlled manually inside the case).
Oh yes..forgot to mention i removed the larger 92mm fan. I think the 80mm fan was had 2 pin header (or my panaflow fan had a 2 pin header??). Manually controlled inside the case? why dont you connect that to you fan controller as well?
Thanks anar, digger. I'll most likely move to some fancontrol stuff, first I'm going to hammer MyCom cause besides the 2 things I mentioned yesterday they also forgot to deliver the Zalman speedcontrol and the installation CD for the MB.
PC specs (only the relevant things):
- Coolermaster Centurion 5 miditower case
- Asus A8V Deluxe MB
- AMD Athlon 64 3500+
- 2x 512 MB Corsair DD400 RAM (for the dual channel on the mb, whatever that may be)
- Zalman CNPS7700-Cu CPU cooler (the big thing in one of the pics)
- Zalman ZM-80D-HP (heatpipe VGA Cooler)
digger - since the PSU is always on I figured a constant airflow over it was important, even if very low.
You *can* get PSU's without fans, but I wouldn't recommend turning off 2 fans in a fan-controlled PSU, even if I was moniroting the temps. :)
Last night my adsl connection passed away as well (I'll be opening a graveyard soon here) and I spend most of today being on hold at the helpdesk of the ISP. After 4 calls the helpdesk finally concluded something was wrong on their side. 3 of the calls included long waiting time listening to stupid music like a very shitty cover of Light my Fire by one of those Spice bitches. The hd finally concluded to call me back a couple of minutes after their 3rd recommendation as I got really pissed (which is very rare). [rant]
So instead of playing with the new toy I'm hooked to the web over the shitty 56k modem in me laptop.
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