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Melifluous
10-01-2005, 15:31
OK Its finally come to this.

I am about to promote to the 5th division next season and would appreciate any help on my players.

I keep reading here and there that people are getting lots of money from trainees and I must confess to
A) Not really understanding how training works
b) Not really doing any training myself.

So this is how I stand.

TEAM LIST PULLED AS I HOPE TO GET A COUPLE OF PLAYERS FROM MY NEW LEAGUE INTERESTED IN OUR CUP AND DONT WANT TO SHOW THEM MY TEAM [:p]

I have £70,000 and should get at least another £100,000 from this Sundays home match.

Any help at all would be greatly appreciated.

Melifluous

Dell19
10-01-2005, 15:48
The Platypus guide at www.Hottrick.org should have plenty of stuff on training

You should never train general as the benefits are limited whilst the training level should be 100% and you need at least a passable training coach.

The important facters that influence the speed of training is the training ability of the coach, the age of the players and the training type.

The difference between a passable and a solid coach is an extra week of training for a player to pop to the next level.

17 year olds train the fastest, add an extra week in general for each year of age. Basically there is limited point in training anyone over 21 unless they already have a very high rating and the return of popping to an even higher level would be huge.

Goalkeepers train the fastest, something like 4 or 5 weeks per pop whilst defenders take the longest at something like 8-10 weeks. The difference in training speed is because you can train 10 defenders each week but only 2 goalkeepers.

The way to train the maximum number of players each week is to play half your trainees in the league game and the other half in the friendly. Players only get trained in certain positions so if you are training strikers then your forward trainees have to play in the forward slots. There is also a limit to training that you can only gain training in certain formations. You can add one extra player to an area to the standard 4-4-2 formation to still gain training. So 3-4-3 is valid but 3-3-4 is not if you are training forwards.

The value of training is that with inadequate passing a passable forward is worth about 30k, a solid forward should get about 100k, an excellent might get around 300k, formidable 600k, outstanding 1.1 million. So if a trainee takes 6.5 weeks on average to pop when you buy him as a passable 18 year old. In 20 weeks they would hopefully reach formidable and be worth 600k instead of 30k.

Schip
10-01-2005, 16:13
from looking at your players (first glance): your 19yo excellent playmaker needs stamina desperately. In general innermids with stamina below solid are of less use.

The other thing that strikes me is that a lot of your players are acceptable (but not remarkably good) in more than one skill. Remember that a players main skill will determine his performance for about 75%, so it's important to be (in my case) atleast solid in that. Experience compensates a lot, and your doing great in that area.

I'll take a closer look tonight.

Melifluous
10-01-2005, 17:21
Thanks for all your replies.

If it makes it any easier I'll include my latest hrf.



Download Attachment: icon_paperclip.gif Melihrf.txt (http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/melifluous/2005110162130_Melihrf.txt)
19.32KB

This is an hrf renamed to a txt to allow me to upload it [:p]

Melifluous

English_brit
10-01-2005, 17:38
Ok, I'll try and keep this succinct so it's easier to take in.

Had a good look at your team and here are what'd be my priorities if I were in your position.

1. Get a solid\poor coach, which will cost you £179k (Get an attacking one imo)
2. Decide what you want to train. Based on the players you have I'd choose either Playmaking or Scoring.
3. Sort out which existing players are worth training and how many new trainees you'll need to buy in.
4. Sell off players that are surplus to requirements. (ask for advice if you need it)
5. Buy in trainees.

Personally if I were in your position I'd train playmaking. I'd keep these 3 players to play as inner midfielders and then buy 3 more for the other 3 inner spots.

Urban Almlius
TSI = 2 190 , 19 years, inadequate form
Has disastrous experience and inadequate leadership abilities

EDIT: SNIP

Erdem de Klaver
TSI = 1 480 , 19 years, excellent form
Has disastrous experience and poor leadership abilities

EDIT: SNIP

Rick Sprengen
TSI = 500 , 19 years, wretched form
Has disastrous experience and weak leadership abilities [Technical]

EDIT: SNIP

Atm you can get some passable inner midfielders with inadequte+ stamina and okish secondaries for next to nothing. You could then buy 3 of those and use these players for the next couple of seasons.

At the end of this season train stamina for 2 weeks so most of them will be up to solid stamina. Then continure to train playmaking.

I tend to sell my trainees when they hit around 21.

Make sure your training intensity is at 100 btw and that you have as many physios as you can afford. I have the full 10.

More importantly make sure you have the full amount of assistant coaches to help train your players (aslong as you can afford it). Most people use either a 9 and 1 or an 8 and 2 setup so their keepers don't lose form. I use 8 and 2 as it shouldn't lessen your players training times at all while keeping keepers form higher.

The Platypus guide is a great read as Dell mentioned and should put you well on the road to implementing a good training regime.

You do seriously need to trim your squad down imo though. You don't need that many players and as a result your paying more wages than you need to.

I have 23 players currently. This is a touch less than most people but I like keeping my wages firmly under control. 25ish should be more than enough to take in to account injuries etc. Many more seems pointless to me.

If you want more specific help or to ask which players etc imo you should sell, get in touch with me on messenger.

peter_rogers2000<at>hotmail.com EDITED TO TRY AND BEAT THE BOTS

Hope this helps. :)

Sorry EB, edited out sensitive info about my trainees [:p]

English_brit
10-01-2005, 17:44
Btw, forgot to say the trainees you buy in should be 17. So they'll be 18 at the start of next season.

Sell off the surplus players to raise cash before you buy the trainees so you can buy the best you can afford atm aswell. Split the money evenly and get the best secondaries you can manager and make sure the stamina is no worse than inadequate.

Dell19
10-01-2005, 18:15
Since they will be 18 so soon you should be trying to pay 18 year old prices for them so you have to be careful that you don't pay too much for players. Its a good idea to look through the entire list of players bookmarking those that look good and then reviewing the players that you have bookmarked then you will be able to judge how much you will have to pay. I think I overpaid for some of my trainees and definately for my inadequate goalkeeper.

Just to add to English Brit's point about secondaries, only certain skills are secondaries depending on what you are training. Passing is the only secondary for strikers whilst IMs can benefit from passing, defending and they benefit the most from high stamina. Stamina is reasonably important for players but if you are going to be training it in the off season then you don't need to buy excellent stamina players. I didn't really do this so some of my trainees have low passing which means I will not get as much money for them.

I think Schip covered this but it would be a good idea to train stamina over the offseason, this is what I plan to do since all my IMs have low levels of stamina. I'm trying to sell my only excellent stamina IM now so that I can get an IM with passable stamina so that all my midfield will benefit from the stamina training.

edit:
Here are the training stats for all leagues:
General 86941 18 %
Stamina 32401 7 %
Set Pieces 4740 1 %
Defending 75077 16 %
Scoring 73792 15 %
Cross Pass (Winger) 23171 5 %
Shooting 9770 2 %
Short Passes 24636 5 %
Playmaking 121127 25 %
Goaltending 30884 6 %

A quarter of teams train playmaking and thats likely to have an effect on transfer prices at least for trainees. Then again the midfield is the most important area of the team so 25% might be about right.

Melifluous
11-01-2005, 00:29
As I've seen in the films I must exclaim...

Come on Yndy!!!

Your input needs must be seen!

Melifluous

ProPain
11-01-2005, 01:05
really havent got the time to look into your squad now but will do tomorrow. However I've been looking into formidable midfielders and they're quite cheap to buy. Probably because they're being trained so much. Solid PM will costs you 100-150K I guess, a formidable one will sell for 500-700K sometimes even less. That's quiet a small margin, I advise against training them.

I'm training keepers now and I'm thinking the profit per week is better than for playmakers. Before I trained wingers: wouldnt do that market for them is slow. Looked into forwards too a bit, seems a better market than playmakers too.

In short, you wanna train what earns you most a week and buy what's not profitable to train.

so ((buying level price - selling level price)* training slots)/(training weeks necessary to acquire level gain)

Second point to take into account. Prices in the market have been dropping for the last year and will prolly continue to do so as more new teams enter the game: They're buying more low level players (trainees) and selling more midlevel players.

That's why I'm training keepers: short training period means I can get out quickly should the market for keepers collapse.

Dell19
11-01-2005, 01:22
The disadvantage to keeper training is that an injury to a trainee is far more significant. Half your income is being delayed for each week that player is out injured. It is useful though in that its probably the easiest training skill to swap to and to swap to a different skill since you only need two trainees.

ProPain
11-01-2005, 01:28
I agree, but that can be solved by buying a 3rd trainee that only requires the number of injured weeks to promote to the next level. This requires some spare cash but is easily done as a keepers TSI gives a quite acurate measure of his remaining training time. The keeper tool on hottrick.org is very usefull for that.

Off course you'll still lose some money doing this but that applies to all trainees that get injured.

Dell19
11-01-2005, 01:46
Thats an interesting point. Had thought about goalkeepers being much easier to predict when they are about to pop to the next level but not made the connection that it would be extremely useful if an existing keeper was injured.

ProPain
11-01-2005, 03:13
Also when you have a lot of time on your hands you can use the predictability of keeper levels to train more than 2 keepers a week.

On the day before the actual training is accumulated look for:
- keepers who are less than 1 week from gaining a level (depending on your coaches skill and number of assistent goaltending coaches)
- who have played in an actual match on the keeper position last week.

These keepers will gain training points because they've played on the keeper position last week, albeit at their old club.

After training they have gained a level and you can sell again with a profit,

This trick does require quite some free time though because you need to buy sufficiently cheap to compensate for the higher selling penalty (players has been at your club extremely short) and his salary. Also there are other people doing this so you can expect some competition.

Kemal does this sometimes, maybe he can tell what kind of money this brings you a week.

yndy
11-01-2005, 06:17
Meli, I did not answer so far because I did not know where to start. I have noticed your very good forms for the players signaling you had trained General extensively.

I’ll start by answering your question.
Training intensity is to be set at 100%. Now that option shouldn’t even be there, 99% of players train at 100% and using other values usually leads to sub-optimal results. The 10 training types are split in several categories (I’m using here the terms we use in Romania, I’m not sure everybody uses similar terms):
- specific training: that’s the 5 main skills of the players: defending, scoring, cross pass (winger), playmaking, goaltending. Training one of these skills improves the players playing in that area of the field during league, friendly and cup matches.
- Secondaries training: that includes set pieces training, shooting and passing. Training these improve set pieces and passing for all or many of your players which are playing and for set pieces even non-playing. Still, if the players are not very good in their primary skills, you won’t make money out of this training. It generally requires very large amounts of starting cash.
- Non-specific training: that includes stamina, which increases stamina very fast for all players but decreases form. The thing is that only midfielders need stamina so normally you won’t need to do this very often. The second is general which improves form and does nothing else, thus it increases short term performances but does nothing for long term. Some players in the top division need to do that for short periods of time to avoid demotion but it does not do good for them in the long term.

I am trying to think of a way you could switch your training style and not hurt your team very much and frankly I am not getting anywhere. On top of that I have reached a point where I have no idea what you can do with passable and solid players as I’m not buying that kind of players anymore.

Every time I start to put a schedule for things that you need to do, it becomes obvious that you have to tear your team apart and rebuild it from scratch and I’m not sure you want to do that.

If you are ready to tear your team apart it might be a good time to sell those passable and solid players in excellent form. Their form will give them a nice sell bonus and if you start doing other things, their form will drop in a matter of weeks.

A very important thing, you need to give some stamina to your midfielders. I’d say Erdem de Klaver needs up to 5 weeks to reach a decent level for a midfielder. Since you should do that you could go the road Kemal went when training stamina with 30-40 players one season ago. That’s in the power starts guide I wrote at that time: http://www.ht-arena.com/chimica/?page=kemal . Still it needs a lot of RL time invested in looking at the Hattrick transfer market, looking for the cheapest players in the zillion of players offered for sale. Also going on that path means that you will most probably not manage to do a good show in Division V.

One of the disadvantages of stamina training is that you don’t have form anymore hence my suggestion to sell the players in good form in the first place.

I’ll stop here and ask you what do you think of this so far.

English_brit
11-01-2005, 09:16
quote:I'm training keepers now and I'm thinking the profit per week is better than for playmakers. Before I trained wingers: wouldnt do that market for them is slow. Looked into forwards too a bit, seems a better market than playmakers too.

Both a magnificent keeper and a magnificent playmaker with just inadequate passing etc would both draw in around £2 million. The same can be said for magnificent strikers that go for around £2 million aswell. All the above aged 21 btw.

As a playmaker can train 6 players fully every week and 4 players at half speed and a keeper trainer can only train 2 players I'd say you're only making in the long run around 1\3 the money a playmaker trainer will make.

Yep, Keeper training is faster but is it 3 times faster to counteract having over 3 times less trainees? No. Plus also take in to account when keeper training your outfield players will have worse form than most other teams due to only 1 or 2 outfield assistant coaches. Plus with the new changes being made in defence for next season the overall importance of a keeper will be lessened.

Scoring I accept as a viable alternative to playmaking but in my honest opinion I think he'd be crazy to train keeping when through the sale of his overly large squad he could afford to buy in enough trainees to train playmaking or scoring.

Keeper training imo is only good for teams starting out who need to make a quick buck and can't afford a full compliment of trainees to train another area.

The only other advantage of keeper training is that it leaves your tactics flexible. As you can play any formation you fancy.

quote:I am trying to think of a way you could switch your training style and not hurt your team very much and frankly I am not getting anywhere.

That's why I suggested playmakin and keeping the 3 players he's already got to train for a bit. Those should ensure his team won't take an undue hit in his league matches while training the other new recruits.

The big problem here is he's getting promoted when he needs to implement a new training regime. If he ends up in a tough division it could cause problems.

I'm a Level 5 team atm and I have to say looking at his ratings unless he's very lucky he's going to take a bit of a beating next season irrrespectively of wether he implements a new training regime.

As a result of that I'd say sod it and buy in every new trainee for whatever position he decides to train. Imo training scoring would probably enable him to take the least of a hit to his results in the next level up. However scoring training does make your tactics predictable and without the addition of a classy winger plus a strong enough midfield to draw posession can make you easier to counter.

Lot of options open to you. Guess the balls in Meli's court now.

Good luck whatever you decide to do.:)

Kemal
11-01-2005, 10:22
Regarding keeper training -> more than 2 keepers per week: That is horrible and time-consuming to do, but the profits can be quite high, and it does always give an escape route for making extra cash in case you suddenly have to spend bigtime unexpectedly (it is how I am financing my 230K stadium expansion, an investment which was nowhere to be found in my original plans for the season).

As pp says, you have to know the market quite well, especially early on you'll find yourself checking on keeper after keeper, with only like 5% being about to pop a level, and then, again as pp indicated, you still have to face stiff competition from some fulltime keepertrainers, who make like 10-15 transfers a day, always looking for keepers.
Once you learn some of these guys, you can take an easier approach, as you can scan the market for keepers with their club as the last bidder, trusting them with doing the checking, but in that case you'll never find the hidden gems, and you'll always end up with a very marginal profit, if any profit at all, since these guys are ruthless traders, who have money to burn and care little about whether they make 100, 10, or even 1 K profit per purchase.

In the meantime, be prepared to see your TS melting away as snow in the sun of course... making this tactic a great way to get poor results in competitive leagues, unless you make so much profit you can purchase yourself big-star players, like those "real keepertrainers" seem to do.

Melifluous
11-01-2005, 14:21
OK Thanks for all your advice guys.

It was as I suddenly realised that teams in level 5 are quite hard and my best players were in the 28+ range that I realised that my team was flawed. I was fully accepting that I would drop straight back down to the 6th division again.

quote:Originally posted by English_brit

The big problem here is he's getting promoted when he needs to implement a new training regime. If he ends up in a tough division it could cause problems.


There is a way around this, but I am not sure on the legality of it. I could lose my last match by not playing a team. This would still mean I would win my division but would almost certainly ensure that I dont get auto promoted. Then in the qualifier I could throw that match as well. This would leave me in the division I am in now with a chance to work on my team.

or...

I could go with the playmaking training.
I noticed English Brit picked out Urban, Rick and Erdem for training. Was there any reason you overlooked Bart Young? He's 19 and a solid playmaker. This would leave me having to buy 2 more trainees and a decent coach. I checked and my current coach is inadequate.

Open once more to suggestions...

Who should I sell?

Melifluous

PS. Please dont worry about upsetting me with suggestions, I asked for help, I need help, and drastic is the advice I am looking for :)

English_brit
11-01-2005, 14:57
It would be in your own interests not to gain promotion. I don't know wether it's ok to not field a team or not, but if you could throw that last game by fielding a bad team you'd be ok.

quote:Bart Young
TSI = 1 100 , 19 years, solid form
Has disastrous experience and inadequate leadership abilities [Technical]

Stamina: wretched Keeper: disastrous
Playmaking: solid Passing: poor
Winger: inadequate Defending: wretched
Scoring: solid Set Pieces: inadequate

Two reasons I didn't include Young as a trainee.

1. He's got wretched stamina. As stamina's really important for your midfielders he'd be a liability. Even if you did train 2 weeks of stamina at the end of this season he'd still only be weak.

Assuming you'd buy in only trainees with inadequate or better stamina you'd end up in a couple of seasons with all you other trainees with excellent stamina and him still needing the extra training. As most of the rest of your team would have decent stamina would seem a waste to spend 2 extra weeks training stamina for just one player when you could be training something else.

2. He's got solid scoring. I can't remember exactly how many decent strikers you have but I don't think you have any above solid. So you could either choose to play him as a striker or sell him to get some money for trainees with better stamina.

You could keep and train him if you want. But bear in mind that for the next couple of seasons assuming you do train stamina in both off seasons he's going to be underperforming in the 2nd half of games.

Personally I'd throw your next game then throw the qualifer and get the extra crowd money from the game.

As you're winning well in your division you should be able to implement the new regime and still win games. Therefore you'll get loads of fans while improving your long term prospects. Winner all round. :)

Kemal
11-01-2005, 15:00
I'm not English brit, so i can't speak for him of course, but I'd say the only reason you want to keep those guys as trainees is because they will already perform well from the start, allowing you to get some decent results, and for that you'll only need 3.
I guess you really want your trainees to be below 20 since it helps out greatly in training speed, especially with longer term training programs such as playmaking. Since the season is almost over, these three as well as Bart Young are already getting a bit old (no pun intended) to function as trainees, but that is compensated by the fact that they are already excellent.
Therefore, I'd try and pick up a few young (preferably 17 year-olds = 18 next season), solid playmakers with poor stamina, since you'll train that anyway, that shouldn't cost too much I think, leaving you some room to improve your trainer perhaps as well.

As for firing players, well I'm not sure on the exact strengths of the English leagues, but i'd certainly do away with:

Gavin Cheesman
Aatmaj Venkataraman, unless he's a clown, which can't be seen from here,
Mark Verspoor
Kennedy Mason
Quentin Berg
Steven Elway
Wilmar Gubbels (though you might take a gamble on transferlisting him since he has quite some experience)

As well as transferlist:

Sandy Cabezas
Oskar Rouvé (after a little stamina training, perhaps)
Adam Davis
Bart Young (after stamina training)
Eric Hautala
Fred Watson
Gregory Hobson
Ian Turner
Jamie McGowan
Richard Alistair
Richard Duckworth (perhaps after stamina training)
Roddy Carroll (actually no I wouldn't sell anyone with such a name, but that might be a Dutch thing ;))
Siebe van den Bos
Tommy Denezhkina

Though you might want to keep one or two of these as backup winger or striker, in case injury hits you, or if finance doesn't allow some cheap, but still better, players as replacements on some positions, since this would leave you with only 14 players (and 3 new future trainees) plus a trainer, which is not enough for a full season of course. I'm not as experienced as other hattrickers here, but I have done quite some minimalistic purchases during the stamina gambit to get half-decent results in the Dutch VIII division alst season, and most of my 2.5 and 3 star players I field now only costed me 5K or less, in euros that is, so emergency replacements buys might be considered too.

As for losing the playoffs on purpose and missing promotion... I think you would certainly not be the only one in the Hattrick world doing so, and whether it is legitimate or not... there are no rules so only the manager behind the club can decide on that i guess. :)

hmm, crossposted with English Brit, of course..

Melifluous
11-01-2005, 15:02
Marvellous so no promotion for me this year then [:p]

Should get the winners bonus plus the top scorers bonus, but no promotion [:p]

Next question, who to fire and who to sell?

Melifluous

Bugger Cross Posting

Ok more stuff here then.

Aatma Ventwhateverthebastardiscalled is not my clown, quite the opposite in fact, he was DEFINATELY on my fire list. Highest leadership in the club and he's a nasty bastard. In fact I just fired him, so please ignore him from now on [:p]

Melifluous
11-01-2005, 15:21
First Purchase Made. A Massive £2670 paid!

Anton Dzhugashvili (51019978)
17 years, passable form, healthy
A nasty fellow who is temperamental and honest.
Has disastrous experience and passable leadership abilities.

Nationality: Israel
Total Skill Index (TSI): 410
Wage: 379 £/week
Owner: Makers Of Mayhem
Warnings: 0


Stamina: inadequate Goaltending: disastrous
Playmaking: passable Passing: poor
Winger: inadequate Defending: disastrous
Scoring: poor Set Pieces: wretched

English_brit
11-01-2005, 15:22
I'd say a squad of around 22 players should cover you easily. A player as cover for each position. So if you decide to train playmaking you'll be playing with a 3-5-2, so 2 keepers, 6 defenders, 10 midfielders and 4 strikers.

So you need to decide on your first team and reserve lineup. Then sell players you don't need.

I don't think you've said how many assistant coaches you have but you need to get the maximum complement asap.

1. Get coach
2. Get trainees
3. Get the 8 and 2 or 9 and 1 compliment of assistant coaches (as and when you can afford it)

Then it's a case of waiting till the trainees are ready to sell. Use any surplus money over the seasons to strengthen other areas of your team as and when it becomes available or expand your stadium, improve number of spokespeople etc.

Schip
11-01-2005, 15:24
throwing the game by not fielding enough players will cost you 10% of your supporters, so try not to do it that way. Also losing the last two matches could cost you about 40 sups as well, though they did change that formula yesterday.

There is quite some debate going on about good teams NOT promoting because they can earn more money in lower divisions. Some think it is not ethical. Well, whatever you want. Ideallisticly I would like to play as high as possible. But I didn't look at any of the Engllish divisions so I don't know if you stand a chance.

Melifluous
11-01-2005, 15:32
OK Thanks for the advice all.

Arena is currently as big as it needs to be I think, I can fit nearly 36,000 people into it :D

Assistants? I already had 8 and 2. Just upped no. of physios to 10.

New Coach will have to wait until after the last match of the season when I will have the money [:P]

Melifluous

Kingreno
11-01-2005, 15:34
I have to agree with Schip. The idea is to always play as high as possible. I promoted to 6th in Holland last year while another year in the 7th would have appeared more profitable back then. I am very glad I chose to go for promotion since the 6th I came in, gave me enough chances to stay up (and I did). Also, supporters are not too harsh in your first years in a higher division! so...go up!
but....It is your party!

Melifluous
11-01-2005, 15:42
Ok 2 more trainees bought in quick succession.

Octave Germain (50884418)
17 years, passable form, healthy
A controversial person who is balanced and dishonest.
Has disastrous experience and poor leadership abilities.


Speciality: Unpredictable

Nationality: België
Total Skill Index (TSI): 280
Wage: 429 £/week including 20% Bonus
Owner: Meli's Manglers
Warnings: 0


Stamina: passable Goaltending: disastrous
Playmaking: passable Passing: weak
Winger: wretched Defending: weak
Scoring: poor Set Pieces: disastrous


and

Stephen Mottram (49356452)
17 years, solid form, bruised, but playing
A sympathetic guy who is tranquil and upright.
Has disastrous experience and passable leadership abilities.


Speciality: Quick

Nationality: England
Total Skill Index (TSI): 450
Wage: 357 £/week
Owner: Meli's Manglers
Warnings: 0


Stamina: inadequate Goaltending: disastrous
Playmaking: passable Passing: poor
Winger: poor Defending: inadequate
Scoring: poor Set Pieces: poor

English_brit
11-01-2005, 15:43
Not a bad player Meli. Although try to get ones without disastrous or wretched secondaries if you can afford it. The rest of is good though.

As for not promoting if you don't want to. I ain't got any problems or qualms with doing it. Everyone knows to do well in Hattrick you need to make money.

If the Hattrick coders can't write a game with enough incentive for you to promote due to it's repurcussions then that's their fault. If you win your league, you've earned the write to do whatever you want to do. If you decide it's in your best interests not to promote then so be it.

If there was more prize money etc etc for promoting or more roll off repurcussions then people wouldn't feel the need to throw games.

It's a flaw in the game and you can't blame players for doing what's in their best interests.

English_brit
11-01-2005, 15:47
Nice but Unpredictable and Quick ain't the best specialities for an inner midfielder though.

quote:Inner midfields - powerful is rather good, but not as good as for defenders (gains defending and playmaking in rain, but gets more tired in sun, which is important). Unpredictable is rather bad (playmakers have worse defending, especially in teams with good players). Quick is bad (a little, they only lose defending in rain). Technical is neutral. Head is rather good (no penalty; corners). Edit: head playmakers are also a subject to special events made by technical wingers or forwards. Check in this game: 8408757. Thanks to our Spanish friend rgomila (PuroFisico (123598)) for pointing me to that match.

Dell19
11-01-2005, 15:52
The downside is that I know an active team that promoted last year to a difficult V league and has lost every game even though they have been training all season and get about 120 now on hatstats. Obviously there are easier divisions to promote to but its a gamble. If you could get to play a qualifier then you can check out the V league that you expect to promote to and if its too difficult then you could consider throwing that game as well.

You could play a silly formation like 0-0-10 and hope that results in a defeat and missing out on training wouldn't be that bad.

On the new trainee, Anton Dzhugashvili, he seems to be not that bad but he lacks decent passing or defence as a second skill so he isn't amazing. If you can afford enough trainees to fill the normal slots then you could train him on the wing as playmaking training also trains wingers at 50%.

akots
11-01-2005, 16:09
quote:Originally posted by Melifluous
... Anton Dzhugashvili ...

[lol] Dzhugashvili was the real last name of Stalin.

Guess somebody is joking around with last names. This player ain't bringing no good imo.

Schip
11-01-2005, 16:38
Meli, when buying trainees it does pay off to look for inadequate / passable passing.
They are more expensive of course, but they will sell higher and easier when your training is complete. Remember to train them for 2+ seasons, selling them at excellent is usually to soon. At the moment the 'big' jump in revenue is between excellent and formidable. This is moving upwards. More and more people are looking for outstanding playmakers.

edit: stupid typo

Melifluous
11-01-2005, 17:30
OK So its starting.

I currently have 12 players on the transfer list all with a starting price of 0.

As and when time allows I'll be knocking players off the "Fire me I suxor" list.

Training changed to Playmaking.

Lineup set for friendly tomorrow including new trainees.

Notes for self now include a warning not to play any trainees in any position other than Midfield [rolleyes]

Roddy Carroll keeps his place in the squad [party]

Aatmaj Ventakaramanathingy was last seen playing golf. His days of glory are clearly over.

Melifluous

ProPain
11-01-2005, 17:36
@english brit

Took a quick glance at buying and selling prices (in euros)

excellent (18 yrs, buy) PM : 325K Keeper : 475K
brilliant (21 yrs, sell) PM : 1900K Keeper : 2400K
magnificent (21 yrs, sell) PM: 2600K keeper : 3400K

when you train 2 keepers or 6 midf. that results in
briliant PM: 385K/week keeper : 254K/week
magnificent PM: 450k/week keeper : 297K/week

So you're right PM has bigger potential. However I also took a look at selling speed (using transfer compare) and the last 10 keepers sold were all done in the last 3 days, last 10 PM's sold went back to november.

Also keepertraining is 15/20 weeks respectively and pm is 24/30 weeks. So you should take into account also the higher inflation risk. Hard to put an amount on too, though.

This was just a quick look, I'll be looking into the matter more thoroughly when I'm done training a keeper and move back to the outfield again. Prices are constantly changing though, I;m pretty sure magni keeper prices were a bit lower a weeks ago.

Melifluous
11-01-2005, 17:46
Bought a Solid/Poor coach as well.

Harald Snogdal (Danish)

All change please!

Melifluous

English_brit
11-01-2005, 17:54
Yep PP. There's pros and cons of doing both. I personally like training playmaking as midfield strength is so important to winning games. Plus you can still alter your tactics alot using offensive slants down one wing and another winger TM or when midfield strength is a must two WTM's. It gives me great flexibility which I like.

I've never trained keeping (well apart from one week to get a keeper to pop) so been interesting reading some of your pro's about training it, not all of which I'll admit to having taken in to account. But I'm still happy with my playmaking training.

If I didn't train playmaking I'd probably train scoring as I see it as the 2nd most important area in a team. Only problem is I don't like many of the formations it means you have to use, it's limiting.

English_brit
11-01-2005, 17:55
Nice going Meli. What type coach? (fond of attacking, neither attack or defensive minded or defensive)

English_brit
11-01-2005, 17:57
Ah, just looked. Fond of attacking. Got the right one. [:)

ProPain
11-01-2005, 18:07
@english brit, I totally agree with the flexibility training PM offers. Most of the time you'll be playing 3-5-2 so it's making optimal use of available training spots in your normal league games also.

Also I don't really care what I train from a gameplay point of view, I mainly care about profitability and minimising loss risk. My philosophy: if I train the most profitable positions I can buy players on other positions quicker. Also I look at the biggest gaps in my team as my trainees are often as good or better as my current players. That way I can improve my current performance faster, earn money and keep a few trainees to improve my squad (very much needed). This sure will change when I've reached a more stable setting for my team, then profitabilty will be the main point of interest.

English_brit
11-01-2005, 18:14
Yeah, my main interest is the money aswell. Just have to agree to disagree on the best way to do it.

That's the whole fun of Hattrick though really. :)

Melifluous
11-01-2005, 18:17
OK So that leaves me with one last dilema.

Should I promote or not this season?

Tough one that I'm gonna have to think about.

Melifluous

Kemal
11-01-2005, 18:18
A final word on training keepers: a big advantage is in my opinion that you know exactly when they will pop, meaning your two trainees will, at least if you bought them both, will probably pop levels at the same time as well, and that results in being able to sell all trainees at the same level without any loss of (eficient) training that would occur when half of the trainees reach the desired level of selling, while the other half has not done so, meaning that to pop those last 3 as well, you'd actually be doing 50% training (as the other 3 no longer need to be trained).

Melifluous
11-01-2005, 18:28
And a final word on why I probably went PM instead of Keepers.

I forgot to mention this to anyone at all [blush]

I have outstanding experience at AIM and AOW and I also have excellent experience on 3-5-2.

No contest really.

Melifluous

PS. Oh one more thing... Should I assume that as they are all 17 and on the transfer list that they have all just raised a level before being sold?

English_brit
11-01-2005, 18:42
Some may be although most are probably just pulled from the youth system. The TSI "may" give a slight indication to how well advanced they are.

Melifluous
11-01-2005, 18:52
Also can I just point out to people interested in Keepers that Sandy Cabezas (who I am selling) has a rating of Inadequate with a TSI of 1300 and weak form.

Hottrick.org puts his actual KP skill at either 5.967 or 5.994 depending on whether his Form is MAX or HIGH.

Interested anyone? He's 22 but...

playerID=21888130

Melifluous

Kemal
11-01-2005, 19:02
If you'd play him as keeper in the next friendly, you might just find he's worth a little more than normal with keepertrainers going after him... though him being a nasty fellow doesn't really help, I'm afraid, and the market for keepers has totally collapsed of late, unfortunately. :(

Dell19
11-01-2005, 19:09
quote:Originally posted by English_brit

Some may be although most are probably just pulled from the youth system. The TSI "may" give a slight indication to how well advanced they are.


Also you can look at their transfer history and memorable moments to see if they have been brought and then trained or whether they just popped from the youth team.

Melifluous
11-01-2005, 19:19
quote:Originally posted by Kemal

If you'd play him as keeper in the next friendly...

Thought this was a great idea! Went straight to amend the orders on hattrick that I had set for tomorrows game.

Only to find that I had not set ANYBODY to be my goalkeeper for the match!

Many thanks Kemal!! [thumbsup]

Melifluous

English_brit
11-01-2005, 19:24
Good point by Dell.

lol about your keeper not being set.

Kemal
11-01-2005, 19:24
Wait a sec meli... since the transfer deadline is past most countries training time, maybe you'd better play the solid or passable anyway, sorry for the confusion but playing him today prolly won't work after all, as far as increase in price is concerned.

Melifluous
11-01-2005, 19:28
quote:Originally posted by Dell19

Also you can look at their transfer history and memorable moments to see if they have been brought and then trained or whether they just popped from the youth team.


Great advice!

2 of my trainees popped out the YS this week.
The other, who is bruised atm, YS at the start of december and obviously has just come back from injury which I managed to work out happened in a friendly last week! He has played in every friendly since he popped outta the YS.

Melifluous
11-01-2005, 20:12
As of now I have the grand sum of £667 bid in total on my 12 players for sale.

Lets see what we can get on Friday huh?

Melifluous

Dell19
11-01-2005, 20:33
Bidding usually occurs on the last day. None of my 4 players had bids on before today, now 3 of them have decent bids on them. I have an inadequate goalkeeper with excellent stamina selling for 14 667 at the moment.

Schip
11-01-2005, 22:14
inadequate goalkeeper with excellent stamina

lol on the stamina part, that's totally useless, unless you have a penalties serie of 100+ maybe.... goodluck selling him though.

Dell19
11-01-2005, 22:18
He went for that price. I did think I had paid a silly amount for him of around 20k but I just checked and I actually only spent 8k on him.

Anyway back on topic. :)

Melifluous
13-01-2005, 20:00
21 hours until bidding closes on my 12 players up for sale!

I will definately be selling 4 players, they all have bids.

Grand total of £11,333 bid so far! Woohoo!

Melifluous

English_brit
13-01-2005, 20:06
lol

yndy
14-01-2005, 08:15
you're doing good Mel, keep it up!

Melifluous
14-01-2005, 12:48
So all my players sell at around 3pm hattrick time.

Thats about 3 hours time!

Currently I will be selling 5 players now, all have bids and the grand total now is...

£30,000!!

Come on!!

Melifluous

Shabbaman
14-01-2005, 12:52
Are you selling anything good on which I should bid?

Melifluous
14-01-2005, 12:56
On the first page of this thread Kemal suggested some players to sell and I posted all my players stats.

I obviously dont know shit, but have a look.

Keeper Sandy Cabezas is just about to raise a level in keeping (to passable) and is only 22, with no bids as yet.

Most interest at the moment is for Oskar Rouve (stam pass, play pass, passing pass, defending poor, aged 20) and Ian Turner (stamina excel, play solid, pass inad, def inad, aged 26).

Melifluous

Shabbaman
14-01-2005, 12:58
I'll take a look for your Ian Turner. Sounds like a good backup, my (original) midfield is getting old. And if I can rip you off I'd gladly do that :D

EDIT: some team called CFC-Odense already bid 25000 €.

Melifluous
14-01-2005, 14:14
And now the Melis Boot Sale is up to £48,667

Fingers Crossed...

Melifluous

Melifluous
14-01-2005, 15:13
Between 30-45 minutes for my players and the money starts flowing.

Up to £88,667

hehe

Melifluous

English_brit
14-01-2005, 16:09
Nice. lol

Melifluous
14-01-2005, 16:22
Well I sold 9 of the 12 players.

Last one to go caused this...

quote:Team spirit fell when one of the players left and the remaining squad started to worry about the future.

My TS went from Furious to Furious [???][crazyeye]

Total value for those £188,667 of which I kept £175,447.

Which almost paid for my recent £179 133 coach [:p]

Nice.

So now have a team of 28 players.

Much better.

Melifluous

Plux
14-01-2005, 18:11
[goodjob]

Dell19
14-01-2005, 18:27
"My TS went from Furious to Furious"

It probably did go down, just between the same level so it was visible in the team spirit indicator.

Melifluous
16-01-2005, 13:36
So today is the last game of the season.

After much soul searching I had decided to try and field my strongest team against final opponents.

I will, if I can win this game, autopromote to the next division.

The team I'm playing hasn't had their manager login since the 1st of January so I know exactly the team I'm playing against.

However after my recent reshuffle I am going to be at least 5 stars down on them :(

I can only hope that a home match and MOTS will help me prevail.

Wish me luck all.

Melifluous

yndy
16-01-2005, 17:41
Good luck !!!

English_brit
16-01-2005, 18:08
Yeah, good luck. :)

Melifluous
16-01-2005, 20:51
Wow.

I got hammered 1-6 :(

Got to see what that means for promotion, but the -5 GD should mean I have to play a promotion game now [cry]

1-2 at half time, they scored another 5 goals at the end of the second half ...

But I almost filled my ground, a gate worth £175,000

Ho hum, just checked, promotion match for me :(

Goal difference didnt matter in the end. I would have had to win this game to make automatic promotion.

Melifluous

Melifluous
16-01-2005, 20:55
Wait a minute.

I am soooo stupid.

I qualified.

Easily.

Ended season with 39 points and 37 points was the cut-off.

Woot

I'm in the Fifth Division!!!

[party]

Melifluous

Melifluous
16-01-2005, 20:59
And I had the top 2 scorers in the league!

I'm gonna be loaded!!

£30,000 for winning my Division, £40,000 for autopromotion and £6,667 for top scorer.

Plus £175,000 for the full stadium :D

Melifluous

Dell19
16-01-2005, 21:02
Congrats, hopefully you will be promoted to an easy V league.

Kingreno
16-01-2005, 21:02
Congrats Meli! I am sure you'll have to work quite a sweat in the first year but in the end You will make it in the fifth! [goodjob]

Melifluous
16-01-2005, 21:56
Check out the top scorers for my division VI.289 (6892)

I ended up sharing top goals scorer spot with 2 other teams.

We all get the full £6,667 so a nice payday for all :D

Melifluous

akots
17-01-2005, 04:44
[goodjob]

Melifluous
22-01-2005, 06:15
Guess what happened last night ;)

quote:21/01/2005 Your supporters paid their annual fees. The income from this amounted to 25 820 £.
21/01/2005 40 000 £ was granted in bonus money for series victory or promotion.
21/01/2005 The series is over and you have been awarded 60 000 £ in prize money for the position your club achieved.
21/01/2005 The weekly economic updates occurred.

Over £125,000, nice one.

Also my team now has a medal.

Team ID: England 58408

Melifluous

English_brit
22-01-2005, 20:12
Nice. :)

Melifluous
11-02-2005, 01:10
1st week of training PM and one of my midfielders pops in PM :D

Time to sell him?

quote:Speciality: Technical

Nationality: Nederland
Total Skill Index (TSI): 1 030
Wage: 688 £/week including 20% Bonus
Owner: Meli's Manglers
Warnings: 0


Stamina: excellent Goaltending: disastrous
Playmaking: excellent Passing: poor
Winger: weak Defending: poor
Scoring: weak Set Pieces: disastrous


Melifluous

Dell19
11-02-2005, 01:25
How old is he? If he is one of your older trainees then it probably makes sense to sell him and get a decent 17 or 18 year old. If the trainee is still young then you may as well train him to at least formidable. Unless you need the cash of course.

English_brit
11-02-2005, 01:56
quote:

Rick Sprengen (44234703)
20 years, poor form, healthy
A sympathetic guy who is temperamental and honest.
Has disastrous experience and weak leadership abilities.


Speciality: Technical

Nationality: Nederland
Total Skill Index (TSI): 1 030
Wage: 688 £/week including 20% Bonus
Owner: Meli's Manglers
Warnings: 0


Career Goals: 0
Career Hattricks: 0
League goals this season: 0
Cup goals this season: 0

English_brit
11-02-2005, 02:02
I wouldn't sell him now. Not worth it unless you have enough money to buy a s&£t hot replacement. If you train him to outstanding you'll get 700k ish although if you train him 4 more levels until he's 22 and magnificent you'll get 1.7M. I'd probably train him until then unless you have enough money to buy a good replacement before then.

ProPain
11-02-2005, 02:25
quote:Originally posted by English_brit

buy a s&£t hot replacement.


We haven't turned of that swear word filter for naught people. No need to circumvent it and make life difficult foor the -poor old, non-non-native english speaker who are up in the middle of the night and try to quickly read some new post- like me.

;)

And I wouldnt sell either, if you're training you might as well train him up more and have the added benefit of an improving midfield during season. Midfield being so important and you being in a high division you're gonna need all the midfield power you can get.

English_brit
11-02-2005, 02:45
lmao @ PP

Thanks.

Melifluous
10-04-2005, 23:24
OK.

So it happened.

He finally hit formidable.

Any idea on his price? I'm thinking about £800,000 to start it off?

Urban Almlius (38327346)
20 years, solid form, healthy
A controversial person who is tranquil and honest.
Has wretched experience and inadequate leadership abilities.


Nationality: Sverige
Total Skill Index (TSI): 4 960
Wage: 784 £/week including 20% Bonus
Owner: Meli's Manglers
Warnings: 0
Injuries: Healthy


Stamina: excellent Goaltending: disastrous
Playmaking: formidable Passing: passable
Winger: wretched Defending: inadequate
Scoring: poor Set Pieces: passable

Dell19
11-04-2005, 00:13
You could probably list him at £900k and he might go for a million. I guess 800k would be fine as well.

Melifluous
12-04-2005, 20:15
OK put him on the market this afternoon for £900,000.

Finishes Friday afternoon at about 14.30 HT Time.

Fingers crossed.

Melifluous

ProPain
12-04-2005, 22:38
900 pounds = 1.350M euro's

I hope you sell him, but it seems expensive to me.

Bought this guy for 463K euro (he was in solid form at that time):

quote:Fryderyk Wis (36524721)
21 years, passable form, healthy

Speciality: Technical

Nationality: Polska
Total Skill Index (TSI): 3 240
Wage: 2 160 €/week including 20% Bonus
Owner: PP SV
Warnings: 1
Injuries: Healthy


Stamina: excellent Goaltending: disastrous
Playmaking: formidable Passing: weak
Winger: weak Defending: poor
Scoring: poor Set Pieces: inadequate

Of course your guy has way better passing and is a bit younger but still a big difference in price.

Melifluous
12-04-2005, 23:29
I kinda see your point but transfer compare disagrees with you.

btw though, that player was such a good buy!

[goodjob]

Melifluous

ProPain
12-04-2005, 23:36
I for sure will be following this transfer really close. The one thing that's keeping me from midfield training is my impression that midfielders are quite hard to sell. When I look at transfer compare I also see last player with similar stats was sold 24th feb 2005.

I really hope you'll sell him quick and well though. And his good behaviour will help without a doubt :)

Kemal
13-04-2005, 00:16
I think you have a fair chance as well Meli, I've been looking for formi/outstanding midfielders myself to improve my team in the future, and while most of the time they go between 500 and 700K euros (the formis), good secondaries along with good PM seems to be (over?)valued tremendously, or so it appeared to me.

Hopefully, someone will bite (not me btw! ;)).

Dell19
13-04-2005, 00:17
Its the passable passing that practically doubles the price. You could get a decent formidable PMer with excellent Stamina and some experience for half the price.

I will be looking to sign a formidable PM as soon as I sell my formidable striker. Will be looking at the lower end of the scale ;)

Dell19
13-04-2005, 00:20
I saw one formidable that was nice go for £280k but thats because I didn't really have the money and backed out after several bids so the other guy got him. :(

It did work out in my favour though as a trainee got injured so it allowed me to sign a replacement so that I didn't lose out on training.

ProPain
14-04-2005, 00:41
http://home.planet.nl/~dijk8021/logo_club_12.jpg

Moderator Action![nono]

ProPain
14-04-2005, 01:44
[psv][psv]

Melifluous
14-04-2005, 22:18
quote:Originally posted by Melifluous

OK put him on the market this afternoon for £900,000.

Finishes Friday afternoon at about 14.30 HT Time.

Fingers crossed.

Melifluous


And already he has a bid for £900,000 [coool]

Also I had 3 other players increase in PM tonight [cool]


Rick Sprengen (44234703)
20 years, passable form, healthy
A sympathetic guy who is temperamental and honest.
Has disastrous experience and weak leadership abilities.


Speciality: Technical

Nationality: Nederland
Total Skill Index (TSI): 2 730
Wage: 688 £/week including 20% Bonus
Owner: Meli's Manglers
Warnings: 1
Injuries: Healthy


Stamina: excellent Goaltending: disastrous
Playmaking: formidable Passing: poor
Winger: weak Defending: poor
Scoring: weak Set Pieces: disastrous


Now hits Formidable as well [goodjob]

Kinda confused why this bloke popped up...


Hogan Radley (45414703)
20 years, solid form, healthy
A sympathetic guy who is balanced and dishonest.
Has wretched experience and weak leadership abilities.


Speciality: Technical

Nationality: England
Total Skill Index (TSI): 880
Wage: 387 £/week
Owner: Meli's Manglers
Warnings: 1
Injuries: Healthy


Stamina: excellent Goaltending: disastrous
Playmaking: weak Passing: weak
Winger: poor Defending: passable
Scoring: inadequate Set Pieces: wretched


He played as a wing back defensive on Tuesday.
and the same on Sunday [crazyeye]

Other bloke to pop up was the fantastic Roddy Carroll [party] Up to Solid PM now. He's 21 and I think will play for me until the day he becomes coach (passable leadership).

Melifluous

Dell19
14-04-2005, 22:51
Everyone gets some training, even those that do not play. However the amount varies. Players that play in the correct position get the most, with players who play elsewhere getting a bit of training and everyone else getting a smaller amount.

Melifluous
15-04-2005, 16:33
quote:Originally posted by Melifluous

OK put him on the market this afternoon for £900,000.

Finishes Friday afternoon at about 14.30 HT Time.

Fingers crossed.

Melifluous


Well he went for £918,000

[party]

Melifluous

Dell19
15-04-2005, 17:31
Do you happen to be interested in buying a formidable striker? :p

Melifluous
15-04-2005, 18:06
How much?

Melifluous

Dell19
15-04-2005, 18:21
£400 000 Excellent form, passable playmaking, poor passing, solid SP. Sells on Saturday night.

Melifluous
15-04-2005, 18:29
A name? anything to help us identify this mystery player?

[:p]

Melifluous

Dell19
15-04-2005, 18:38
Cain Wallace (41880446)

If you bid early at the minimum bid that would be useful :)

Melifluous
17-04-2005, 22:19
My supporters go straight from furious to calm. One win does wonders away from home :D

First win of the season.

W00t.

Melifluous

Melifluous
18-04-2005, 14:37
And now my supporters are calm I got 4 new ones sign up today!

Yeehaw, back on the up and up.

Melifluous

Melifluous
25-04-2005, 00:58
So yeah,

Pretty chuffed with my win in the league, puts me

Played: 12 Won:2 Draw:1 Lost:9 GF:11 GA:39 Points:7

Dead last.

But my team is getting better.
I have a positive outlook.

[u]Good Points</u>
£800,000 in the bank.
Some nice Midfielders.
Prospective coaches. (Roddy Carroll up to 3 exp at age 20)
Gonna get demoted to Div VI again. Be good for the supporters.
CDZ cup is going well.

It's a long term kinda game ;)

Melifluous