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Beam
07-01-2005, 20:47
A very, very special map made by [king]reno. Erikk and me both have the same traits (Agri, Comm and Mil.), same UUs:
Jaguar warrior (10 shields)
Mounted warrior
Rider
Sipahi
Dromon
Carrack
Panzer

Each of these units can act as a GA trigger.

A lot of wonders have been modified and many unit producing small wonders have been added. I'll post a list of those in the open thread.

Really looking forward to it, all these modified wonders offer many, many new options.

Beam
07-01-2005, 22:24
Turn 2:

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Beam/200517203850_turn2start.jpg
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2nd city will be build on the hill where the settler is moving to. Still decided for Writing and to facilitate that one thing was changed compared with this pic. The cap is using the silk forest to get max shields and gold and moderate food. It also allows for the 2nd city to build mil police. The Jag warriors go scouting.

Three small wonders are available right now:
Tribes Council (none)(Iron Working)(40), produces a warrior every 2 turns.
Tell's Heritage (Warrior Code)(Invention)(100), produces an archer every 3 turns.
Workers Workshop (none)(none)(100) produces a worker every 3 turns.

Of these 3 Workers Workshop is by far the most attractive as it lasts until the end and does not take pop. The other 2 have limited appeal but both are attractive. The small investment for Tribes Councel is easily turned into a benefit. The Jaguar Warrior is available as well however and with double movement a very nice unit. Tell's Heritage is nice as well because it lasts until Invention.

Workers Workshop will be build at sometime anyway but in the early game it is like investing 10 workers (not looking at pop production) before the first worker goes out and another 30 turns before 10 workers are build. The other 2 are in competition with SMs producing Spears(100), Chariots(60), Swordies(140), Horsies(160) and Pults(80). All these wonders become obsolete once the next unit in the upgrade chain become available. SoZ is also avail but is still set at 5 turns.

Hard to decide since I don't know anything about the map yet, don't know which AI I'll meet, don't know if there are huts to be popped. No Tribes council for sure as the Jaguars better suit the needs. So for know I plan to have a settler fac, a supporting city and once a 3rd city is founded a prebuild for a SM.

Just sent 4b to Erikk and looking at distance covered by the Jaguars compared with the minimap this is most likely a large map!

Best regards,

[king]reno's Labrat ;)

Pastorius
08-01-2005, 00:44
WOW. THAT START IS GREAT.

And damn man, those are some FAT borders [:p]
Starting to get old there Beam ;)

All hail the King!!! This will be a cool spoiler to follow. Make many screenshots.

Beam
08-01-2005, 16:35
16:

Gran is finished, just need to road/mine BGs to have a settlerfac in action. Writing in 11. Quite a large area has been explored, no one met yet. This is a vast world!

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Beam/200518153455_16map.jpg
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Beam
09-01-2005, 20:52
26:

Met Japan and the Maya, traded Alphabet with both. Net result: CB, BW, Wheel and Masonry. Only lack Myst to the Maya. Both AI have 3 cities like the Iroqs, settler will complete next turn. Writing is in > Philo.

Silks connected, spices and furs near and nicely fitting in with city-tile-tile-city expansion. :) With those connected enough lux is flowing in to start building Small Wonders while maintaining research speed. Incense and gems are also spotted on the Iroq subcontinent.

Minimap:

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Beam/200519194222_26minimap.jpg
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No landbridges S and most likely not in the W either. Besides the one visible on the minimap there is another potential landbridge just N of that.

As KR said already AI behaviour is a bit different from normal games. On deity you would expect the AI to have more cities already and being able to trade Alpha with the Maya in turn 26 also is quite exceptional.

Decided Ashcroft (160 shields, Horsie every 3 turns) is the best Small Wonder to start with imo although I'm still considering Workers Workshop. Main reason for Ashcroft are the vast distances to be covered on this map, the fact that it produces the best upgradeble unit and an alternative to MW avoiding early GA.

akots
09-01-2005, 21:23
Can you join the workers which are produced from Workshop to cities? This would be an awesome means of growth, no need for granaries and all that other stuff. Can mine food tiles as cows as well with the very same workers and still get decent growth.

Beam
09-01-2005, 21:49
Afaik units produced from wonders have the same characteristics as if they were produced normally. The real interesting thing about the Workers Workshops is that it does not consume pop by producing a worker. As such I'm reconsidering pref for either Ashcroft or the Workers Workshop. Using the workers for city growth becomes interesting when there isn't a lot else to do, the fact it does not consume pop is the main advantage imo.

Beam
10-01-2005, 21:33
37:

Contact with erikk on the left side of the map. He lacks Masonry, IW, Myst. and Writing! He has HBR (got it from the AI some turns ago). So my guess he plans to build Ashcroft as well.

38:

Philo run. [dance] Mapmaking as free tech, CoL next.

Beam
11-01-2005, 22:39
47:

Have a look at the Demographics (this is a Deity game!).

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Beam/2005111213551_47demogr.jpg
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The Iroqs still lead the pack by Phil and MM. Egypt has Mathematics but won't trade for Phil. All Civs met except for India. Workers Workshop will complete in 2 turns, followed by Ashcroft.

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Beam/2005111213536_47minimap.jpg
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The map is more or less oval in shape from what I've seen. Haven't followed coast however so it might be different. Saw some sea halfway. Sent a Dromon to investigate. Erikk is the city at the far left.

Beam
12-01-2005, 00:40
51:

Research CoL and have a monopoly. France (N-part of the oval) just learned Poly but doesn't know Mapmaking like the AI on the S-part. So Poly is with the Iroqs as well. Just need Constr. and Curr. for the MA. Aztecs lack:
- Mapmaking
- Philo
- Poly
- CoL
- Math

If Erikk is smart he started researching Lit., otherwise he risks being in a techhole. CoL would work for him as well since I don't plan to sell it around for a while (no customers with big wallets or juicy techs).

Map of the core. The stretches of land NW and SW are landbridges to the AI sections of the map, on the W is a small peninsula.

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Beam/2005111233945_51map1024.jpg
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Kingreno
12-01-2005, 00:45
What's with the Japs in your territory?

Small wonderstatus: how about colonial expansion? you could certainly use the setlers!

Pastorius
12-01-2005, 00:58
Come to think of it, 7of9 is quite ok, for a star trek borg formerly assimilated kind of girl...

erm.. you know

Beam
12-01-2005, 01:10
Hehe, I got a flashback [scared] when they marched in then realized I had signed a RoP a while ago. Most if not all cities can be reinforced quicky in case they come to close.

Been pondering a lot about the sequence of Worker Workshop, Ashcroft and Colonial Expansion and finally decided for the sequence listed here. Cities at this stage need 2 things badly:
- Workers.
- Military police.

So therefore Colonial Expansion 3rd.

Although the initial plan was to go for Ashcroft that was changed because the AI are at considerable distance and building workers without cities reducing in size really is very nice. So that place Workers Workshop first.

With these 3 Small Wonders in place fully supported expansion at a rate of 1 city every 3 turns is a fact and the other cities can start to build improvements.

Build 3 embassies 2 turns ago and none of the caps has a small wonder in place or is producing one. Dunno about the other cities of course. Erikk told me he also has a Worker Workshop.

Beam
12-01-2005, 19:50
55:

Another minimap. A scouting Dromon is at the tip of the arrow. All 6 AI are met, embassies everywhere.

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Beam/2005112184754_55minimap.jpg
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The coast there seems to follow a more or less straight line. Haven't tried to scout for land in the inland sea, there very well might be.

Pastorius
12-01-2005, 23:02
Nice arrow :D

ProPain
13-01-2005, 01:21
For some reason CDZ'ers have an arrow fetish. Wonder what Freud would have to say about that....

Beam
14-01-2005, 22:20
64:

Construction came in previous turn and the I had nothing in exchange other than small change. Maya got it this turn. Iroqs will learn Curr. in 9 turns, or earlier if a trade can be made. No one has CoL yet and Aztecs lack Poly, CoL, and Constr.

Ashcroft is up and running putting out vet horsies every 3 turns.

Interesting to compare the Aztec and Iroq empires.

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Beam/2005114211528_65erikk.jpg
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http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Beam/2005114211558_65beam.jpg
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Aztecs build wider, basically on a c-t-t-t-c scheme but despite that have covered much less terrain. Erikk might be focussing to much on Small Wonder construction. I'm building a little wider than c-t-t-c so all cities can easily grow beyond 12 but not to much.

Kingreno
14-01-2005, 22:31
wow you have 13 vs 6 cities??? and the techlead...erikk is in trouble.

Beam
14-01-2005, 22:40
quote:Originally posted by Kingreno

wow you have 13 vs 6 cities??? and the techlead...erikk is in trouble.

And strong according to the Mil advisor. I checked tech prices when starting Curr. and the editors 16 / 10 is exactly reflected in the 10 / 6 turns required for Curr / Lit.

Beam
15-01-2005, 00:27
69:

Some more Demographics.

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Beam/2005114232455_69demographics.jpg
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According to F8 Iroqs have 18% of pop, France is next with 14%. The only stat a little disturbing is literacy, but isn't that contribution per city?

Beam
15-01-2005, 18:47
78:

Minimap.

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Beam/2005115172524_78minimapc.jpg
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The red circles indicate the 2 land bridges, both with a row of 4 Mountains crossing the bridge coast-to-coast. On the AI side of the mountains is a stretch of jungle and marshes. So the mountains are basically the limit of normal expansion.

A quick count learned that about 30-32 cities can be build on the Iroq subcontinent and this might have implications for the type of government as in Republic only 90 units can be supported for free, providing all cities larger than 6.

Since we will need truckloads of units, say around 200 at min., this means +200 gpt unit upkeep. Under Monarchy the same number and size of cities can support 120 units, resulting in +80 gpt upkeep. Question is if the commerce and corruption bonus of Republic really compensates for the upkeep. The more units are fielded the higher the difference in upkeep will be.

Does somebody know what the precise working of commerce and corruption bonusses in Republic is? TIA.

Colonial Expansion was just completed so that means the expansion rate is doubled. Erikk also finally started to expand and he was so lucky to research Curr., trade it around and go to the MA. Since I'd almost finished Curr. I could buy it cheap. Engineering is due in 5-6 and Babs got Mono as free tech.

Beam
15-01-2005, 21:29
85:

Engineering and a monopoly! Only Babs and France have MA techs, Mono/Feud and Feud resp. So around 600 gold is invested in trading with Eng to get Mono and Feud. Babs lack Monarchy and France lacks Republic. Both techs are available somewhere else so good chance at least some of the money will flow back.

Maya gift Rep and Monarchy for Monotheism.

Babs pay 570 gold for Monarchy [cool]
France pays 42 gold for Rep (France owns the Great Lib, they would have gotten anyway next turn).
Gain another 160 or so by selling stuff around and making sure all AI have Mono, Mon and Rep.

Aztecs lack 5 techs now, but I'm sure erikk is researching either Feud or Eng cause with that some very intersting Small Wonders can be build kicking out Trebs, Pikes and MedInfs every 2 turns! Iroq prebuilds just switched to these. Invention is next.

Beam
19-01-2005, 00:06
90:

Minimap update. Two Dromons make a tour around the world, main discovery is that the outer AI coastline also is quite straight. There are some lakes but it seems there are no chokepoints. A run away civ could very well develop on such a map.

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Beam/200511823555_90minimap.jpg
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Aztecs still lack 4 techs and as some AI got Engineering last turn it was traded around to the rest of the AI for good gpt (40something iirc).

Pastorius
19-01-2005, 00:20
You are still somewhat larger in land area. But those AI nations should be of pretty decent size as well. Who will you take on first? Are you allowed to mass-MA eachother into oblivion?

Edit:

send this to <s>Grille</s>Erikk:

http://civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Paalikles/2005118232337_7of9big.gif

Found it using Google. There sure are some loonies out there [scared]

Edit: erm, why did I say Grille when I meant ERIKK? [crazyeye]

Beam
19-01-2005, 01:23
[rotfl] Is this Astrolab slang? ;)

Beam
29-01-2005, 16:04
128:

Physics just came in and although there are many techs in the market (including Metallurgy) it isn't traded around in order to be well prepared for the race to SciMet.

Minimap (almost the entire map is explored). Iroqs also completed peacefull expansion, produced settlers are used to beef up cities.

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Beam/200512915345_10adminimap.jpg
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France and Babs have been at war for a while, it clearly visible how well they benefited from that [lol]. For the rest the game has been one of peace.

Rik Meleet
29-01-2005, 16:17
What is your strategy going to be now ?
Pink, Darkred or Green ?

Beam
29-01-2005, 16:47
Pretty hard to say, erikk and me agreed to go for the AI first. France isn't very strong but they have Musks with a defense of 5 and defensive bombing, really need firepower to get through. Japan is one of the few being average (Iroqs are strong compared to most AI) and have hefty Samurai. I am considering to wait until Japs start a war somewhere or until RepParts.

Beam
01-02-2005, 00:32
140:

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Beam/200513123319_140ia.jpg
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Iroqs enter the Industrial Age as techleader! [dance] Still in despotism and a monopoly on Magnetism. Aztecs lack Magn., ToG and Democracy, but since I expect Erikk decided for Magnetism it I will trade it around next turn when a 183 gpt deal with India expires.

Physics was traded around earlier for all MA techs in the market while Magnetism was due in 1. AI typically prefers ToG over Magn (because ToG comes with a wonder???) and they got a 1 turn headstart on ToG, Iroqs got it with 2 turns left prev. turn so we do research at about the same speed as the AI atm. Most AI are in Republic and upkeep must be hitting them hard.

Iroqs for a long time are popleader with 17% while Aztecs are second with 15%. This makes me feel confident the techlead can be maintained even if the Aztecs get into the IA next turn.

Since the Small Wonders produce a Musk every turn and a Settler, Worker and MedInf every 3 turns Iroq cities only produce improvements atm, if Unis are in place they go to wealth.

Although techfocus clearly is on ToE and Hoovers Iroq scientist/diplomats will try to obtain Communism soon after that. The best government in this game imo if firstly Police Stations are build in the core. We once tried this out in a SG game and it worked pretty well.

Steam Power is due in 9, this means that SciMet could be in place in little over 30 turns keeping in mind that a couple of Unis will complete soon. Target city for ToE does 20 shields, should increase to 30 with railroads with the assumption that the railroad bonus actually is available in Despotism! Dunno, never been in the IA under Despo.

EDIT:

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Beam/2005131234819_despopenalty.jpg
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How to read this. Mined grassland and irrigated plains should produce an extra shield with RR, mined BGs are affected by the penalty? Mined hills already have the penalty so should get an extra shield with RR?

Iroqs know the entire map and the inland sea. We proudly present the Mapmakers signature!

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Beam/2005131233147_minimapkr.jpg
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Kingreno
01-02-2005, 11:02
Your still in Despo? OMG!

As for the RR, yes they give the bonus in despotism. But do not forget that fro example Mined Bonusgrass won't give 3 but 3 shields. However, mined hills go to 3 shields, as do Mountains. Irrigated Plains keep their 2 food, irrigated Grassland goed to 3! It is logical. Which Gov you gonna take? Commi or Fascism?[soldier]

[goodjob]for uncovering the innersea!

Beam
01-02-2005, 23:23
I'm not sure about fascism, no experience and I more or less know what to expect from Commi. [ponder] Dunno for example if there is a difference in commerce for example, the Pedia doesn't say a thing about that. Maybe I should check it in the editor.

Previous turn came with some tech surprises: India and Egypt learned Magnetism! So they are in the IA as well and most likely started on Nationalism (what else would you do being AI). Aztecs acquired a tech: ToG. Good news because it increases Iroq lead in the race to ToE.

Even more because Erikk asked if I also could not upgrade Cavs to Sipahi. I answered I didn't have a Cav available at that time for testing and advised him to check his Salpeter. Turn later he told me he found out that upgrading a Cav costs 60 gold. [lol]. So he is running at a minimum budget atm and needs to upgrade units. Iroqs have upgraded everthing and have +1300 in cash. Thanks to some good gpt deals and to Leo (forgot to post that).

Iroq military:

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Beam/2005212264_142mil.jpg
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About 30 units upkeep. The units not upgraded are either on scouting missions or returning from them and there is an Elite Rider not upgraded for obvious reasons.

Basically made up my mind about the first targets. France and Babs with Arti/Inf stacks supported by Sipahi. They are weak in Military and because of that nice training ground, they also will reduce Iroq upkeep.

Erikk told me he is cleaning up units [lol]. "After all warriors, catapults and spears it now is time for pikes medinfs and crusaders to be thrown away". Those help of course to build improvements but it is a waste of shields imo as most of these wonders have a short shelflife. The first Iroq units planned to be disbanded are the Medinfs.

All these Aztec Small Wonders are reflected in the Cultural Histograph. Believe me, Libs and Unis are build in a lot of Iroq cities!

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Beam/200521222320_histograph.jpg
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Kingreno
01-02-2005, 23:45
What are the Babs doing culturaly??? I did NOT change their trades or build-prefs...

I think that peace till the AI have been cleared is not a deal that goes well with the early wonders. Those are meant for early wars!

As for teh Govs: Fascism will act as Monarchy Corruptionwise. No differnce whatsoever. Also, you lose 2 pop in all cities and newly conquered cities cannot build culture. The former is very annoying but for agri's it is very doable. The latter is a nuisance.
However! Your workers work TWICE as fast, which rocks in the Steam power era, which you happen to get to rather fast and Unit support is massive. In this situation I'd definately go Fascism. Just my 2 cents.

Pastorius
02-02-2005, 00:38
Would also be interesting from a lurker perspective to see labrat use of Fascism. A learning experience for the rest of us as well :)

Beam
02-02-2005, 01:22
There really is a lot favoring Fascism over Communism but the 2 pop reduction is a heavy penalty. It can be compensated somewhat by joining surplus workers to key cities to get them back on 12. And with the current road to Hoover &gt; revolt there should be enough workers to do it.

Main disadvantage of Commi is that after discovery of Commi Police stations need to be constructed in the core prior to revolt. Talking 8 to 10 cities here.

Babs and France are the only 2 Civs who've been at war until now. Quite a long war and therefore they are so weak imo. Both are between a rock and a hard place atm.

Kemal
02-02-2005, 01:30
But, if you plan to take AI cities fast and enlarge the empire, I'd suppose the corruption fighting effects of communism are sure lots better than those of fascism, though I have to admit I only know of the quality of communism by viewing other people's games and comments, never ventured there myself.

Banzai
02-02-2005, 01:41
Don't forget that under communism you will be able to build the Secret Police Headquaters! A second forbidden palace!

Kingreno
02-02-2005, 10:05
Ignore those lefties! ;)

Melifluous
02-02-2005, 12:50
quote:God save the queen
The fascist regime
They made you a moron
Potential H-bomb

Melifluous

Rik Meleet
02-02-2005, 13:55
Fascism is good for defensive; Communism for offensive goals. As you want to kick some ass I'd go Commie !!

quote:Ontwaakt, ontwaakt verworpen der aarde!
Ontwaakt,verdoemde in hongers sfeer!
Reedlijk wiilllen stroomt over de aarde
En die stroom rijst al meer en meer.

Beam
02-02-2005, 14:26
Did some reading in CFC Strategy and Tips and everything suggests to go Commie with respect to the Iroq plans, i.e. a lot of warmonging and expansion.

Main article by Ision: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=81587&page=1&pp=20

Recent topics: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=111149 and http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=110817

Preparation requires prebuilds for Police Stations in the core and a prebuild for SPHQ. All of this still is planned after ToE and Hoover.

Banzai
02-02-2005, 15:21
Good choice, comrade!
Ignore those rightists! ;)

Melifluous
02-02-2005, 17:34
I can only quote Churchill here...

quote:Anyone who is under the age of 30 and is not a liberal has no heart. Anyone over the age 30 and not a conservative has no brains

Melifluous

Beam
04-02-2005, 23:55
162:

My dear threadjackers. The peaceful and devoted life of the Iroqs today was brutally disturbed.

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Beam/20052422443_francedeclares.jpg
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The GF was really upset as she can't go shopping in Paris for a while and even was afraid the French came to collect some unpaid bills. She should not be afraid of the latter. One Musk already made it to Elite against the French chickens. [charge]

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Beam/200524224757_theforce.jpg
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Despot chief Beam faces a number of options for the next turn:
- Get the Babs in an MA?
- Use Sipahis against the scum and trigger a GA which could speed up almost secure ToE and Hoovers?
- Just withstand the upcoming wave or go into offensive mode?

Science front: next turn the Iroqs most likely have 2 Monopoly techs, Medicine and Electricity. SciMet to be followed 6 turns later. Ain't topspeed but much better than AI performance.

Diplo front: Erikk revolted and told me he will go Republic in 8 turns.

Stay tuned to this channel. :)

Kingreno
05-02-2005, 00:04
Wow, the french have seriously lost units in their last war with the babs! In my game with this mod I had to surrender arround this age. :D 160 Units, for each of the 2 Babylonian stacks came to me. I had no barrier or so, just a long border.

Oh, on tactics. If joan has only longbows? Kill and attack please.(without the babs whoosie!)[charge]

Beam
05-02-2005, 02:20
Next turn Medicine came in and we have a monopoly on it and on Elec as well. [dance]

Checked trading options with the AI requesting offers for both Elec and Med. Only India was prepared to pay more for Medicine so they are researching Elec. The other AI valued Elec much higher so are either researching Med or are working their way through other paths in the tech tree. In all deals max. AI gpt was obtainable with Nat left out and also max. gpt offering the tech they valued most and acquiring Nat.

Been [ponder] [ponder] a while to cash the hunderds of gpt but decided not to. Cash is much less of a requirement in Despotism. The AI maybe slow in research due to their massive upkeep but at Deity they build wonders very fast. ToE is not at stake, completion planned by a Palace prebuild in 9 turns. The road to Hoovers needs to be protected however since the most productive city does 24 shields at max. and needs 34 turns from now while the city with the best prebuild options still takes 32 turns. That city was on a Smiths prebuild but is producing Longbows now [rotfl]. Which are really good at donating shields in remote locations :).

Although Erikk and me decided on a long term peace deal (taking the AI out first) we are competing over everything else of course. He recently managed to come on par in pop but that hardly isn't a surprise since he occupies a territory very similar to mine and most if not all of Iroq cities are at the limits of growth.

He decided wisely not to compete in the ToE / Hoover race now and instead go to a change of government where I am basically forced to stay in Desp until Hoover is completed. It will be interesting to see if he can catch-up in Republic coming 35-40 turns and even more how Republic compares to Commi after that.

Last but not least the AI factor. India is the AI powerhouse but not a run-away Civ atm. India is directly NE of the Aztecs. Japan has the highest Civscore but does not do very well in pecunia related stuff, they are SW of the Iroqs. Babs and France have drained each other in an early war, they are NW of the Iroqs. And Egypt and Maya are at war now throwing in outdated stuff by the masses observers report, they are SW of the Aztecs.

France and Babs are the easiest targets and close to the Iroqs while Egypt and the Maya are softening up each other.

All in all it looks there are many small advantages for the Iroqs but the real challenge is how Rep and Comm will do compared to each other.

Stay tuned!

Beam
05-02-2005, 13:28
165:

A scouting Rider on the border between India and Aztecs sees Indian troops massing up. A warning is send to the Aztecs. In the IT India attacks ............................ the Iroqs. [mouth]

The Rider wins a couple of battles triggering GA. Well, it certainly helps getting Hoovers but I'd preferred to have it later.

Beam
06-02-2005, 13:33
170:

ToE will be in next turn, the French chickens retreat their armies and there are no Indian units near Iroqesia. So everything seems to be smooth and quiet.

We spend some change what Erikks settings are now he is Republican.

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Beam/200526122745_170aztecsettings.jpg
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70% science and since he has very little cash this prob. is his best. He surely will catch up researching the now cheap techs he lacks, but I guess he won't manage to catch up until we go Commi.

Eagerly looking forward getting ToE next turn we go EOT, then it happens.

India buys Japan into an MA!

Immediately Japan sends SoDs. Here is the one on the right. The other 2 are much smaller Cav stacks. This going to be some great leaderfishing! It also might be a good idea to get Nationalism next turn and upgrade the Musks. Cash isn't an issue.

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Beam/200526123329_560adsod.jpg
148.75KB

Rik Meleet
06-02-2005, 14:30
Good luck !!
Going to sign MA's with the remaining AI ?

Beam
06-02-2005, 20:14
172:

See the F4 pic in the open thread for all MA's!

In 171 the MA's were signed and to my disappointment the Japanese stack retreated. A nice opportunity to send workers and a protecting stack to start building a Birma railway through the jungle. All pics are from the interturn (which is quite long ;)).

Overview of the bottleneck.

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Beam/20052619510_172bottleneck.jpg
114.93*KB

Left Sod.

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Beam/20052619853_172leftsod.jpg
70.26*KB

Middle SoD. Number of MedInfs is 8.

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Beam/20052619940_172middlesod1.jpg
96.54*KB

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Beam/20052619957_172middlesod2.jpg
94.38*KB

Right (and doomed) stack.

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Beam/20052619112_172rightsod.jpg
58.23*KB

The middle stack is formidable but by bombarding it with 47 Cannons first and using the Sipahis not needed for the right stack it should fit on one page after the massacre. Japan will suffer.

Pastorius
06-02-2005, 20:29
quote:(...)it should fit on one page after the massacre(...)
[lol]

Beam
06-02-2005, 23:11
173:

Just a single pic is enough to show what's left of the middle stack.

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Beam/200526215135_173bottleneck.jpg
126.26KB

The righ force called the blue bus as well, no action was performed against the left stack and in the interturn it moved to nice locations for the cannons. Reinforcements in the interturn were a whopping 2 Cavs.

Iroqi forces prior to the battle.

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Beam/20052621558_173force.jpg
53.04KB

And after.

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Beam/200526215534_theforcepost.jpg
52.19KB

All Sipahis were used, 13 lost, 15 undamaged. No leaders but a lot of promotions :). Heroic Epic is in next turn and that should get us leaders &gt; armies next turn! The Rifles did an excellent job killing the weaker units in the middle stack, only losing 4.

There were victorious Samurai and F11 stats changed so Japan hit its GA 99% sure. Considering the units they lost and the amount of units in enemy land they will revolt for sure soon.

Meantime Erikk is fighting into Egypt and doing well altough he reported he made a mistake moving 38 Sipahi in automove. If those units ended up in enemy terrain he has a WW issue!

col
22-02-2005, 15:32
Playing this one as a solo game. Republic is generating so much cash I have no problem being tech leader and milking all the cash from AI to support my army. As soon as I have ModArms the world is mine. Stacks of 150+ artillery handle anything.

Beam
22-02-2005, 23:44
I guess it is well possible to play this game under Republic as well. Both Erikk and me more or less divided the S subcontinent between the two of us and there are enough cities to handle the upkeep. Erikk still has to fight India, the strongest AI. I am at war with France and these pics show France is real fun!

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Beam/200522222378_frenchstack1.jpg
100.07KB

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Beam/2005222223817_frenchstack2.jpg
150.04KB

Mediocrity at it's best and good for some more leader fishing, 2 empty armies are in stock already with 7 fully loaded Sipahi armies at hand. :)

Hoover will be in in 2 turns and by then it is time to revolt. Still considering to Commie, even if it is just to learn how it turns out. Unit upkeep will go to 0, no worries about WW, SPHQ and it should be possible to quickly build Temples and Civil Defenses near the front.

Just started researching Combustion, Erikk still lacks Electronics.

Rik Meleet
23-02-2005, 01:15
Unit upkeep 0 in Communism ?
AFAIK normal Communism has 6 free units for any town/city/metropolis, and above that 1gpt. Is this "upgraded Communism" with no unit upkeep ?

Pastorius
23-02-2005, 09:32
If that is the case, he can just hurl units at some (dark green) opponent ;)

Beam
23-02-2005, 14:08
Unit upkeep indeed still is 6 units per city, with +65 cities upkeep only starts at 390 units, whereas the current Iroq army has 280 units.

Beam
27-02-2005, 23:22
194:

Hoover completed a couple of turns ago, Erikk already was complaining when I was going to build it. ;) Iroqs immed. went to anarchy drawing 7 turns, no to bad. 3 turns to go Commie.

Meantime France is being hammered, 4-unit Sipahi armies doing a great job. 14 armies in total, 9 fully filled with Sipahis, 5 waiting for Tanks [evil]. Watch the desperate French archer at the bottom of this pic!

[placeholder]

And the minimap:

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Beam/200522722225_194minimap.jpg
29.36KB

Beam
04-03-2005, 01:21
197:

France just got 3 cities left, all in the SW in the minimap of the previous post. If all goes as planned those will be gone next turn. Japan landed their settlers on a prepared (cleared Marsh) spot on the Iroq subcon and are history now.

Iroqs became Commie this turn, I've been [ponder] [ponder] about this a while as Col posted some a good PoV about going Rep, it was plain curiosity that shifted the balance to Com, we are labrats anyway isn't it? ;) The first signs are good, border cities are at about 50% corruption without any improvements, core cities with Police Stations show a little more corruption compared with Rep and the unit upkeep threshold is 510 units. Can't build SPHQ however, checking this with KR.

Babs will be the next Iroq target, which leaves India for the Aztecs, Babs being a much easier target imo. The Pyramids are located in Babylon btw, nice price!

The real target are the Aztecs of course, more about that soon.

Beam
06-03-2005, 00:50
200:

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Beam/200535234021_200minimap.jpg
69.97KB

While the Aztecs are battling India slowly the Iroq commies are toasting the Babs. :)

4 fronts are forming: 2 on the landmass, 2 on the sea. The one across the edge of the map looks very promising for a Marine attack [evil].

Rik Meleet
06-03-2005, 02:08
Your purple lands look like the SS enterprise.
"Beat him up Scotty !"

col
06-03-2005, 12:22
Big Hand to KR - I have played this map several times now solo and had great games every time. Land, sea and air are all critical.

Beam
10-03-2005, 00:20
Brief update.

Erikk took 3 or 4 more Indian cities, then decided to settle for peace. He told me he did not want to loose more units to India. This weekend we'll have a chat about new rules of engagement. And he has been complaining about me stealing tech. I can understand his perspective but I certainly do not plan to agree on banning techsteals! I also think Erikk is having a leader / army issue. The armies I spotted only contained 3 units (Sipahi) so he probably does not have the Pentagon or is about to build it and it could also mean he got only a few leaders and / or used them to build Small Wonders.

The Iroq campaigns gave many leaders, 16 used for armies (7 still empty), and a couple for small wonders, among which 3 very recent for 1 turn Destroyer and Battleship Small Wonders in the Far East and the 1 turn Cruiser Small Wonder on the inland sea.

AI: only India is still in the game and the Iroqs just became strong compared to them. They can be a big surprise factor and probably even a risk because Erikk has 20 turns of near-guaranteed peace with them. I'm considering to attack India soon while buying some time from Erikk. Otoh I might consider to attack Erikk asap, being strong in F3 and crippling him before he builds a credible Panzer force.

Tech: Flight is almost completed, just need MotTrans for the MA. Best guess is Erikk just got / is about to get MotTrans and does not have Flight yet. Plan to steal MotTrans in a couple of turns. Since Erikk will be able to develop faster being Rep., stealing will be ruler rather then exception and at max. income a steal is possible every 3 turns from a financial perspective.

Would appreciate if somebody can help out with the statistics on techsteals under Communism (vet spies!). TIA! The outer cities are doing very well btw, the worst of them still are at about 50% corruption which allows reasonably fast construction of Temples, Barracks and the bad and ugly Civil Defense.

The tactical plan will very much depend on the rules of engagement we agree on, most likely defensive in the S and looking for offensive options over seas. [hammer][hammer][hammer][hammer] Erikk into serious WW will be part of any plan. [evil]

Pastorius
10-03-2005, 00:58
I think you are better off setting phasers to overkill and go for Erikk...
Not that I can back it up with anything, but an MA with India against him, and your tactical skills ought to make you winner. Do it now whilst you have upper hand [chaarge]

Rik Meleet
10-03-2005, 01:56
quote:Would appreciate if somebody can help out with the statistics on techsteals under Communism (vet spies!). TIA!

Look at this threat: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=97042


http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Rik Meleet/200531005556_spies.JPG
32.3KB

Beam
12-03-2005, 22:33
Thanks Rik. :) This means either 2 out of 3 or 3 out of 4, should be easy to finance.

We agreed on a set of rules of engagement, these eliminate most of the advantages a first strike has. Apart from that this set is excellent for commies and less good for republicans because it will lead to a long war with massive build of units, not the type of war for a Republic. It also means an effective Marine attack is only possible after quite a number of turns in the war when multiple cities can be captured.

So Iroqi focus will be on creating WW first, build a Maginot line against Aztec Panzers and build a healthy mix of Panzers and Bombers.

The Maginot line requires quite some preparation because just building barricades isn't enough since arties can bomb the barricades away easily. Putting units there doesn't work because the defense per tile would be to thin. The real solution is twofold imo:
- Plant forests on Barricade tiles where possible. This will take 2 movement points.
- Build the Barricades next to cities and build temples in all frontline cities so the cities get enough culture that Aztec Panzers only are a direct danger at a very limited number of points. These points then can be reinforced with Infs and Civil Defenses.

The proof is in eating the pudding of course, if all goes as planned this might turn out in a Nuclear Gorefest.

Beam
19-03-2005, 20:51
212:

The 0-turn has been played. The S front is littered with craters and barbwire.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/t212.jpg

Aztecs have 97 Panzers, Iroqs just 14. But it will be very hard for the Aztecs to capture an Iroq city and keep it because they can't get defenders in captured cities in the same turn.

Aztecs lack Flight and Marines compared to the Iroqs, Erikk is either saving cash or using it to rush things.