Rik Vs Beam -- **** SPOILER *****

[Rik Meleet]

Beam and I fight it out. We have no traits, no AI, no Barbs; just the 2 of us.

This is my start:

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Rik Meleet/20041220205414_Start.JPG
37.56KB

My strategy will be unconventional; growth and defense. Science will be slow. I have discovered in playtesting that (since we have no traits) any wonder will induce a golden age. To get to the techs I will need a lot of commerce and food. I decided to move my settler twice; to the river. Start a granary and pop out settlers.
I'm aiming for a big capital, with small cities around it. The capital gets a lot of room, but most other cities will be only 3 or even 2 tiles apart. At least, that is my plan so far. The capital will get a temple to allow it to get big quick.

I also noticed in playtesting that America still has its scout. I won't need warriors yet. I plan to go low on warriors and high on spears. The scout comes in handy in quickly locating Beam, so he can't "just walk in" into my -in the beginning- not so very filled cities.

[ProPain]

wicked start!

[Kingreno]

Beam, seen form the open thread, has no scout. Is this an agreement you made?

[Rik Meleet]

Germany doesn't start with a scout. I do get the impression that traits are not off; my worker finished a road way too quick for that. I think the scout is a result of the traits being "on".

[Kingreno]

Then now is the time that a restart is still possible! Unless you want to continue with traits, which especially being industrious and Expansionist would not help you! not to mention panzers!

[Rik Meleet]

Beam and I are going to restart. We've re-agreed to switch off traits; to start with no techs, no scouts.
We do get 2 settlers and 2 workers to have some speed in the game.

[Lt. Killer M]

Rik, for the restart I will uncover that part of the map which you know in beams map as well, by placing the 2nd settler and worker accordingly.

[Rik Meleet]

The restart. I consider commerce and food more important than shields at the moment. Thus settle immediately and workers to first road and then irrigate. Shields can gome later.

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Rik Meleet/2004122211537_herstart.JPG
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[ProPain]

Nice german language mod you have there.

[Pastorius]

What a lot of beef. Someone get me a frying pan and a stove, and I am gonna make some filet mignons...


mmmm....beeeef

[Lt. Killer M]

PP: I have no idea why C3C 1.22 decided to install German - I use US only Win and Civ :(

But it IS fun to have Mittelalterliche Infanterie!

[Rik Meleet]

Turn 12

Beam has passed me in score, mainly because he has moved his 2nd settler so he has a bigger land than I have. And he probably build some warriors.

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Rik Meleet/2004122223413_turn 12.JPG
82.5*KB

My plan is to build granaries in both cities, and have them then on settler and worker pumps. My military building cities will be around my core; not (yet) in. And I will not build many warriors; (except for some MP); I'll go for spears and higher quality units. Remember; my plan is to play defensively, because Beam will not expect that (I hope).

I am also desperately needing to connect the luxuries.

[Pastorius]

5 cows, 6 fish. Damn man. Killer is a nice guy these days. Except for the fucked up language [:p]

BTW - is that Womoks's mountains?

[Rik Meleet]

I have them for a very long time, so long I forgot what they were. It seems to be Womoks Mountains.

[akots]

There is so much bonus food tiles and you worry about some commerce? And mining the cow? Why you need these luxuries now? Can't you just increase the luxury slider?

[Rik Meleet]

I need as quick research pace as possible; we have no starting techs and no traits. I'm expecting Beam to play traditionally; focussing on as many units as possible and strike hard. I am playing un-orthodox; focus on defense with fewer, but higher quality units in big cities behind walls and with the aid of cats. I hope he won't be expecting that.
Therefore I need some good techs, thus a quick tech speed. A high lux slider slider counters that.

Also: I know that having no traits has the strange effect that any Wonder does give an instant Golden Age. Since we have very late UU's (deliberately) and Wonder building is usually bad, Beam will hopefully assume this will be a No Golden Age game. But a Wonder giving a golden age instantly will counter the "being bad" part. I am aiming for MoM (in due time) for the larger city it can become and the tourism income.

Both my cities now have granaries (turn 19) and are going for workers and settlers. In cities 3 and 4 there will be units produced. Probably spearmen, with an occassional warrior.

[Rik Meleet]

Research is going well.

This is my core:

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Rik Meleet/200412252463_turn 36.JPG
50.56KB

I am nearing the end of "no military". I'm going to build spears soon. I am researching Cer bur for temples; for happyness.
Research will then be going to either Maths or Monarchy; depending on the cost and whether Beamian units show themselves.

[Rik Meleet]

Turn 52 update.

We've met; I spotted one of Beam's curraghs. My research on Writing dropped hugely because of this, ready in 1 turn. Of course I couldn't build an Embassy due to the lack of writing. Beam lacked Bronze, Masonry and Ceremonial Burial. He does have writng and God knows what else. He might do a Philosophy Gamble, I don't know. He probably has MapMaking as well, if not; he will have it soon.

Beam didn't have a "nail to scratch his ass with" so he couldn't afford an Embassy; I could.

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Rik Meleet/20041227152423_Contact Capitol 75.JPG
75.32KB

He has horses (I do now as well) and has only 1 lux. He also has warriors around; I focussed on quality units; spears for now. In turn 52 my military was average compared to Beam. He must be have trouble with happyness; 1 lux and no Ceremonial Burial.

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Rik Meleet/20041227152616_Military 1700 BC.JPG
25.3KB

This is the Minimap.

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Rik Meleet/2004122715273_minimap 1700BC.JPG
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I'm going to continue a few settlers in Orca and Killer Ville, while the rest is either bulding "Bautruppen" (workers) or "Kaserne" (barracks) and "Lanzenkaempfer" (spears). I'm going to research towards Monarchy. The Hanging Gardens can be useful. I still also need Maths and HBR for defense.

I think Beam has MapMaking and will try a naval assault. Let him; My core is build thightly enough to withstand an attack now. In future I'll block off the mountain landing points and if he lands elsewhere my cats and horses will beat him.

I only start worrying if Beam gets Bronzeworking as then Swords may come.

First Goal: To reach my eastern lands to see if that is sea or that we are connected by land.
Second Goal: scout his coast southwards; for the same reason.
Third Goal: Get to Monarchy and start HG. As it means instant GA (no traits) That will surprise Beam.

My Capital:

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Rik Meleet/2004122715409_Orca 1700 BC.JPG
117.31KB

[Lt. Killer M]

you wanted a pangae map - you are on one landmass!

[Rik Meleet]

I know, Killer, but I need to know [u]how</u> we are connected. To the east or with a bend to the south or the north. I need to know from what direction Beam can come from.
:D

My lands, BTW:

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Rik Meleet/2004122718321_Core 1700 BC.JPG
70.2*KB

[Kingreno]

Some points.

In general, I would never build a temple! It is IMO a waste of 60 shields that can easily be invested in far more usefull things. Not to mention the upkeep a temple requires! If (e.g.) Orca and Killer ville have temples and other size 5/6 cities do not, you still need that lux-slider on 10/20/30%. If you take a look at this type of games throughout the fora you'll notice many players build no temples (or heaven forbid...cathedrals). Oh, and use Libs for culture, if that is what you are after!

Research. Why Monarchy? It is a very pricey tech and IMHO not worth it! Republic is what Beam's probably going to be (I have not read his spoiler, but this guess won't be off much ;)), so the price for republic will be lower once he has that. You will fall behind if you do not become a republic! The extra trade it generates will more then likely make up for the lack of military police, while boosting your research immensly.
Instead, research key techs here. You will lose the philorun if beam already has writing, so go for republic, literature and currency. These will allow the key buildings and the government. Also remember to follow beams path! You save a LOAD of beakers by going for techs he already has since those prices will go down. If he's got Currency but no literature, go for currency first. This tactic will allow you to keep close and rush some buildings/units.
And last, wonders: Do not build the hanging Gardens in this stage of the game. The extra content citizen is not worth the 300 shields. Beam can check on f7 you are building it and may decide that 10 horsemen (300 shields) is his choice of build, with all consequences...[charge]

This is all of course just my opinion, but I was happy someone told me that temples sucked when I made spoilers of my first Pbem! Please do not feel offended as I mean well![thumbsup]

[akots]

Must second Kingreno with most of comments. It is a very peculiar path of development which basically defies a lot of experience and is very far from optimal. But we'll see how it goes. :)

[Rik Meleet]

KR: I have to agree with your point on temples. That's why I stopped after only 1.

Monarchy: Isn't the combined effect of more free units, the cost for extra units and the War Weariness in this type of game (when war is declared it will most likely never be peace again) better than the commercial boni of The Republic?
Please tell me now; I can still go either way.

HG: Beam can see that I am building a Wonder ?? I didn't know that. But I do know that any Wonder = Golden Age. I am fairly sure Beam doesn't realise that. There is no other way to start a GA. So in my planning I decided that I do want a wonder. What's your advice in this ??

My whole game setup is based on defense; to make sure that whatever Beam throws at me I can cope with. Even 30 extra horsemen. To play this game as if it was "Always War". To have and to hold. When Beam does come with his full force I want to defeat him and counter-attack. Defense first.

I am never offended by based critisism.

[akots]

Re war weariness: If you don't lose cities and defence zero unis, don't lose too much spearmen and raze the enemy cities instead of capturing them, it is not so high.

How about 60-80 horsemen? That was a number on turn 100-110 which I had to handle against OPD. If not for a great celtic UU and rather advanced cities, it is sure death. No way you can defend with spearmen only.

Re wonder: HG is good since it lasts a rather long time. But Pyramids is better. At least it compensates for the lost shields during expansion phase. :)

Re: Republic bonus. It is usually high enough to compensate for increased unit costs and provide for sufficient research rate which retaining the ability to cash-rush occasionally but you would need a few more luxuries for Republic to feel comfortable. At least 3 luxuries but may be 4 and markets in large cities. On the other hand, if you were planning the military rush against Beam, it would have been a good idea to build HG immediately after the revolt to Monarchy is over, start GA, and go with full force to kill Beam after GA has been ended. But if you lose the military rush, it would be tough since by the time you get to Middle Ages Beam can have knights and may be even Gunpowder. On the other hand, just sitting and waiting "when he comes" might be a good thing though but defending with spearmen against horsemen is a sure losing bet IMO.

[Kemal]

If I were in the position you are in, I would definitely also go for The Republic. The free unit support from Monarchy is actually only marginally better I think, since you will need plenty of MP to fight unhappiness, and iirc (actually I never played monarchy in c3c, I have to admit) the unit support under monarchy is 2/4 for town/city, while Republic offers 1/3 respectively, meaning only 1 extra unit per city for free. Of course, the unit support under republic is 2gpt per unit, but the advantage of your units not being tied to cities (no MP), meaning they can defend much more actively, as well as the fact that the increased amount of raw commerce allows for easier happiness management of cities via the lux slider as well as a tremendous increase in gpt/science once markets/libs and better improvements come online.
War weariness should never become a serious problem under Republic, especially when fighting a defensive war.

As far as the wonder is concerned, if you have fewer than 3 luxes available I'd say the Hanging gardens are a decent choice, if you could make it. Pyramids are of course totally superior and a gamebreaker on pangea maps like these... but if you'd build that be prepared for waves of horses flooding your lands soon, as Beam will undoubtedly not wait for you to grow to insane size with all those free grannies. ;)

[akots]

Apparently cross-posted with Kemal. The only exeption for early Monarchy is with a religiuos civ, when you can easly revolt to Republic later on. But this is obviously not the case in this game with no traits.

[Pastorius]

quote:Originally posted by Kingreno

Some points.

In general, I would never build a temple! It is IMO a waste of 60 shields that can easily be invested in far more usefull things. Not to mention the upkeep a temple requires!
(...)


Good to know. [thumbsup]

[Kingreno]

Good point on the Golden Age Rik! That means my perspective on the gardens may be a bit off. There are several options for usefull wonders. The pyramids are nice, as kemal said, but will be like a magnet for beams forces. 400 shields is a lot too. For cheaper options I'd considder the colossus in Killer ville! It has no rivers but good production and growth meaning the tradebonus is ok even under despotism. Also, the great wall could be nice. Only 200 shields and "stadsmauern" in all cities! Important is, as always, to keep track of beam. Check f7 for what he is building.

Defence: A few spears behind walls or on a hill are nice against AI but Beam will just ignore them and head for the land behind the line of defence. Horsemen against horsemen and a good roadnetwork, that is defence.

The serious downside about you revolting to Monarchy is the plain message it sends to Beam: I will attack soon. One does not revolt to Monarchy for any other reason then that (bare the incidental religious civ that got monarchy ages before republic).
However, I do see ways that it can be an option. I have played Monarchy in several occasions the most important one being the Pbem against Skyfish on Sid-level. I had only one lux and had to go to war with my neighbours the Iroquois. On Sid, immagine that 70 units entered my lands upon declaration, and after the initial onslaughts, roughly 10 to 15 units were destroyed per turn (at a 1:4 ratio in my advantage). War weariness would have anihilated me, not to mention unitsupport-costs.[ponder]
If an early arms-race is happening in this game, Monarchy is an option, though not a flexible one. Keep track of f3. If you are strong compared to Beam with only your handfull off spears...why stay on defence?[evil]

[Lt. Killer M]

it is funny how this map is progressing much like I hoped.

I hope my built-in surprises will have the desired effects :)

[Kemal]

Wasn't the cost of the Great Wall upped to 300 in C3C?

[Rik Meleet]

I think it is 300. I haven't made up my mind yet on what Wonder; my Empire isn't yet ready for that heavy investment. Nor for the GA. It is The Republic first and then we'll see. I just hope there are more luxuries connectable; I currently have only 2.

[Rik Meleet]

Update 1500 BC - turn 60 / 61

I am now classed strong in the F3 screen, with only this army:

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Rik Meleet/2004123101237_Strong in 1500 BC..JPG
26.9KB

In 1600 BC I spotted a Beamian warrior near my lands; that means we are connected to my East. Good to know as I can now focus my defense there.

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Rik Meleet/200412310151_land contact.JPG
59.1KB

Back to 1500 BC.

I have researched Philo in 4 (Beam got it first), Now working on CoL (due in 3). Beam is still in Despotism, has just researched Bronze. He still hasn't connected his 2nd lux and I'm ahead in many fields:

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Rik Meleet/2004123101927_stats 1500 BC.JPG
20.84KB

I don't know what Beam is doing. I'm going to build some defense in my west; Beam most likely has MapMaking and I don't want a nasty landing in my relatively unprotected core.

Oh yeah: I found a 3rd Lux; it is The Republic for me, no doubt.
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Rik Meleet/200412310233_3rd lux.JPG
61.74KB

[Rik Meleet]

Oh yeah; my stats are a little bit off due to a couple of scientists...

[Rik Meleet]

And something strange happened; Beam "congratulated" me on MSN with getting to Philo first. I did not get a free tech. Beam claims he didn't research Philo yet, so why didn't I get it ??

Either Beam did get Philo, or this is modded as well...

[Pastorius]

hm. odd.

hm - if you rearrange the letters in the word siedler, you get seidel [beer]

Nice dots you got there. Nothing compared to the arrow standard set by Propain though

Found out what the odd shape between you and Beam is (on the minimap there is an area in the middle that looks peculiar.)

[Rik Meleet]

Turn 73 - Update.

Republic due in 1. Beam still lacks CoL. He does have Iron Working and HBR. But he has some units coming to my Eastern cities. I will have to check if the warrior and horseman are the only units or if there are more coming. If not: Revolution. I got my 3rd lux online.

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Rik Meleet/20051222829_The east 1175 BC.JPG
74.65*KB

Sort term goals:
- Make sure I am not under immediate threat. If I am; the Revolution will be postponed.
- Revolt to Republic
- Finish the Forbidden Palace (in Killer Ville)
- Resarch HBR, IW, Maths, Const and build a defensive wall on the hill-range.
- Finish the settling in my south

Mid-long goals:
- Expand towards wines
- Shorten the border

What is Beam doing ??? [confused]
My productivity is 166, Beam's is 123. Even with my capitol off-line I still lead him. Beam only has 2 luxes online, is weak against my small army and he isn't saving for upgrades as he reasonably quickly (I guess every 5 turns) researches military techs. But he isn't building -a lot of- military.

Edit: upload units
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Rik Meleet/20051303631_Military 1175 BC.JPG
31.32KB

[Lt. Killer M]

Rik, I suspect that 'traits off' turns the Philo free teceh off as well.

[Rik Meleet]

[???]

P.S. the Rik-Beam is going a bit slow. I am in an 8 turn anarchy; updating when I am a republic.


after KingReno pointed out that temples were "not done" in PBEM's I saw this Stapel city. He build a temple. What could be the reasoning behind it ??

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Kingreno/200516171825_81embassy.jpg

[Lt. Killer M]

Rik:

losing the game!!!!!!

[ERIKK]

- When your are Rel. cheap temples are also not 'not done'.
- When you have few luxuries you can also build a few temples in big cities.

[Rik Meleet]

I drew an 8 turn anarchy [aargh]

I did manage to research HBR and IW both in 4 turns in anarchy. I liked that. Beam's military went from weak compared to mine to strong compared to mine. He still lacks CoL and Ceremonial Burial.

Beam is building a bit of culture. That would mean libraries for him. Or he finished his Forbidden Palace. Anyway; my FP will be ready in about 13 turns.

Here are the stats for the Meleetian Republic of 950BC:

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Rik Meleet/200518171037_the stats 950 BC.JPG
21.39*KB

I checked; Beam's productivity is about 146. Mine is 274.

Research is set to Maths (in 4 at 30%) and then Currency. I want markets.

Short term goals:
Rebuild military
Fill the backlands
Forbidden Palace
Markets
Expand to the East.

[Rik Meleet]

Beam declared war and killed 1 of my horsemen. the otherone died against my horse. I got War happyness, allowing me to down lux to 10%.
Maths came in in 4; now Currency in 4.

I am preparing a settler-team to claim some wines.

[Rik Meleet]

Had to slow research and change some buildqueues because of this:

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Rik Meleet/20051931822_Beam's SoD.JPG
94.91KB

I am sending in troops to deal with him. I do need some RNG luck though. Well, this was the moment I was waiting for since the beginning.

[akots]

Rick, your image does not show, may be because of a few spaces in the filename? [confused]

[Rik Meleet]

It can't be the spaces as every screenie I posted had spaces. Probably the ' in the title "Beam's SoD" caused it. I renamed it and try reuploading.

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Rik Meleet/2005191473_BeamSoD.JPG
94.9KB

[Rik Meleet]

Turn 94.

I got the capital to 15 spt and 2 more cities on 10 spt. Killer Ville is on 12 spt, building the FP.

Beam wasn't very succesful in the attack; so far he lost 1 spear and 8 swords. I lost 6 spears. And I'm back to average, compared to Beam.

I have most likely withstood his attack; he now only has 4 swords (3 injured) and a warrior and a horseman. I have about 25 units in the area. If he continues his attack I'll destroy all his forces; if he does nothing I'll slowly kill his stack. If he retreats I will hunt him.

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Rik Meleet/200519213332_battlezone2.JPG
166.3KB

Next step: Wines. There is a settler waiting in "German Orca Teaser" and with some spears it'll soon go to the wine area.

I stopped research a bit to get cash for warrior to sword upgrades and some rushbuilds. Now it is back on speed. Currecy in 1; Next tech: MapMaking (to build a navy and for harbors).
My only problem would be if Beam did a naval landing in my west. I still block coastal tiles, but the reserves have been send east.

All in All; my strategy of defense seems to be working.

[Rik Meleet]

I posted in my previous post: "My only problem would be if Beam did a naval landing in my west" a landing in my core would be bad news.

My worst fear came to be. And perfectly timed by Beam. He landed on the mountains near Keiko. If he'd waited 1 more turn; he wouldn't have been able to land there because the spear produced in Whaler would have released the spear in Killer Ville who would have blocked the exact mountain Beam landed on.

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Rik Meleet/2005110195428_Keiko landing.JPG
148.39*KB

Fortunately there are only 10 units. Beam has no more units; the 5 galleys carried the 2 archers, 2 horsemen and 6 swords.
Only Keiko is in immediate danger by 2 horsemen, so I moved 3 vet spears there. And switched to walls, rushed.
As you can see; FP finishes in Killer in 2. Beam's 2 horses can reach it in 2. But by then he'll be too late. I have about 15 units (spears and swords) moving there, while about 3 horsemen are going there as well. I think I can hold out long enough. I might loose a city (Keiko) but that is a loss I can take. Loosing Gems might hurt harder, but nothing I can't overcome.

I had to drain some power from the Eastern front, so I can't kill the units there. If they move inland; I can take them out.

If Beam manages to land another army in the coming 3 turns on a completely different location I might loose. But I don't think he can. In fact; I know he can't.
I know the location of 23(10 swords, 3 archers, 3 horsies, 1 warrior, 1 curragh and 5 galleys) of his units. We are average according to the Military guy.

As Propain and Oystein point out: Units Strength (player 1) = Hitpoints * (1.5* AttackPoints + 1 * DefensePoints ) 0.175 * Bombard Points or (3A+2D)HP+B.

Beam's visible units strength is Sigma { 1*((3+2)5+0)=elite horse, 7*((9+4)4+0)=vet sword, 3*((6+2)4+1)=vet archer, 2*((6+2)4+0)=vet horse, 3*((9+4)3+0)=reg sword, 1*((3+2)3+0)=reg warrior, 5*((3+2)3+0)=reg galley, 1*((3+2)3+0) =reg curragh} = 10 + 364 + 99 + 64 + 117 + 15 + 75 + 15 = 759.
My unit strength = 974.
So Beam is between 780 and 1168. 409 points at max has Beam still somewhere. At max he has 10 reg swords left (and no galleys) or 4 reg galley and 8 reg swords. Or no galleys and 27 reg warriors. I'm not worried. If he lands all of them they are easily removed and his country is defenseless. Especially with my production.

BTW if boats do not count in the strength-score; then Beam has value 669 of the visible units and I have 944. He then has at max 11 reg swords or 8 vet swords or 30 reg warriors.
Then it will be harder; but not impossible. Only 1 lone horseman will wreck havoc in his lands then. [charge]

I just need to keep an eye on his visible units and the moment I am declared strong (or weak) by the military dude.

[Rik Meleet]

I managed to get sufficient spears in Keiko (and 2 spare ones for the Gem Mountain) to keep Keiko. Beam lost 4 swords and 2 archers. I lost 4 spears. I had 1 spear and a Sword left. The next turn (97) I got rid of the Eastern stack (Beam's stack is down to 1 1/4 sword) and moved in about 6 spears into Keiko. Beam has only a 4/4 horse, a 1/4 horse and a 2/4 and a 1/4 sword left. I have 5 swords into position to kill them off and re-block the coastal mountain tiles.

I am concentrating now to fill and protect my soft under-belly and to -finally- grab wines.
I just finished the FP; I now have 3 cities on 10spt and 1 on 15 spt.
Perhaps it is time to start a Wonder to get my GA.

1 thing bothering me still; after Beam lost so many units; his strength is still average to mine. I think I can expect another load of units soon.

[Pastorius]

Great job man. Very good defense, and use of game knowledge. Are you capable of a counter offensive soon, or do you plan to wait?

[Rik Meleet]

I wait till knights. Every turn makes me stronger and Beam relatively weaker.

I can get Orca (My Capital) up to 25 spt. I'll do the neccesary cow-minig soon. After I rebuild and improve my defensive forces.

I still want a Wonder; not for its effect, but for the Golden Age it automatically starts. So a cheap wonder will do; for instance MoM. With 25 spt that is 8 turns.
If I get the timing right (and harbors on my western coast against starvation as I'll need to steal grassland and cows from them) I can use the GA to get markets and libs in my cities quickly. With that I can speed up research to get to the MA. I'll start to build a fleet of at least 15 (or 25) galleys to be filled with knights and to be sended to Beam's core.

The trick with this game is the "Any Wonder induces Golden Age" and I am nearly sure Beam does not realise it. If I build a Wonder I think Beam will declare me insane for wasting shields on this 'nonsense'.

If after the game Beam is reading this: "Beam, I want to see the look on your face when I finish a Wonder and get a Golden Age you will not know of until I land many knights in your core!!"

[Rik Meleet]

Turn 105 - update.

I've got Orca up to 25 spt. It just started MoM. Poly in 3 turns, at 20% research. After that I only need Construction. I'm going to plan the research of Const to coincide with my GA. That way I can benefit fully from the quickened research to get to Feud, Mono and Chivalry.

Beam is still in despotism and still lacks Code of Laws. And Currency. He did research the Monarchy branch, but I'm catching up.

My core is now protected from landings.

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Rik Meleet/20051161410_Core blocked.JPG
74.12*KB

And Beam is sending another SoD. I have enough units to counter; and with several cities on 10 spt reiters and Schwertkaempfer are made quickly, if more are needed.

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Rik Meleet/200511614743_470BC picture.JPG
85.94KB

My advisor tells me Beam is average again. Fine by me. I build some harbors, settlers still and a market. I can afford it.

[Rik Meleet]

And this was my nation at the beginning of the turn. Of course I changed a lot, but it gives you the idea of what my country looks like:

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Rik Meleet/20051162249_My land the turn before.JPG
136.8KB

And the Stats:

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Rik Meleet/20051162322_stats 470 BC.JPG
20.4KB

[Rik Meleet]

Beam's stack is now on the hill. He got lucky and defeated a big stack of mine (in which was a settler who was destined to go to the most southern hill of the range. But I have reserve troops coming in.
Beam is also sending in 3 ships to my north shore. All mountain tiles are blocked. If he moves further east then he'll still find all tiles blocked. He will probably send in more Galleys; but I now also have galleys for a naval battle and early warning.

The best thing is: Construction in 4 and MoM finishes in 4. That means I start researching Middle Age techs during my Golden Age.

[Pastorius]

Doing good man. Kick that Tony Blair's ass ;) These games sure make me keen on doing a naval invasion sometime myself...

[Lt. Killer M]

wow, nice going! You two are fighting a lot harder a lot earlier than I had imagined (well, OK, the map WAS made for the two-pronged appraoch after Map Making) - I hope the rest of the game stays as interesting :)

[Rik Meleet]

The fantastic turn 113 !!!

This all happens:

Reached the Middle Ages
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Rik Meleet/20051191519_Middle Ages.JPG
11.56*KB

Finished the Mausoleum
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Rik Meleet/200511915023_MoM.JPG
52.03*KB

And got a Golden Age out of it !!! http://67.18.37.17/2135/53/emo/cheer1.gif http://67.18.37.17/2135/53/emo/cheer1.gif http://67.18.37.17/2135/53/emo/cheer1.gif http://67.18.37.17/2135/53/emo/cheer2.gif http://67.18.37.17/2135/53/emo/cheer1.gif
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Rik Meleet/200511914047_Golden Age.JPG
24.62*KB

I start research on Feud (in 5 at about +30 gpt).
The only unpleasant thing is that according to my military advisor I am now weak compared to Beam.
But that should be quickly reversed; I have 1 city on 30 spt, 4 cities on 15 spt and 5 or 6 cities on 10 spt.
Most are building horsemen; for counterattacks and upgrading to knights. If things go as they should I have Chivalry in 15 turns. If they don't I have it n 16 or 17 turns. Then I'll stop research and accumulate cash for horse -&gt; knight upgrades. I can make over 150 gpt. Of course this will drop due to more units and high unit support cost, but I'll be able to produce and research and collect cash quickly.

And Beam is still in Despotism, lacking The Republic, Currency and Construction. And a Golden Age [slay] !!

[Banzai]

Wow, that looks great!
Now go kick his butt :D

Banzai!

[Rik Meleet]

Turn 124 - update

Beam continued his assaults on my East. I stopped him on the eastern red spot (on a hill). We lost about the same amount of units every turn. This had the irritating effect of giving me big war weariness; about 40% and in some cities 50%, so I had to up my lux slider to about 30%. That's why I settled "Orca Spices" this turn. Beam does have a small SoD (8 units at most) on the Eastern Red spot.

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Rik Meleet/2005125181431_124 East.JPG
90.81KB

I was able to sneak a settler in on the hills and build the city "Beam can't heal anymore"; preventing Beam from healing his units. After that it went quick; without much hassle I threw him out of my hills.

That also had the effect of me -finally- becoming strong compared to Beam. He kept me on average for many may turns. Here are my stats in turn 124:

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Rik Meleet/2005125181659_124 stats.JPG
20.04KB

Beams productivity is about 188 and his MFG goods about 70.

And many of my cities generate a lot of commerce and shields. I am researching Monotheism after I got Feud. For a few turns I go max income; to cashrush a harbor in Orca Spices so i get my 5th lux online. Many of my core cities have markets; so that will certainly help me. When Orca Spices has a harbor it'll build walls and I go back to max research to get to knights quickly. Many cities are building horses for a mass-upgrade.

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Rik Meleet/2005125182032_124 cities.JPG
76.58KB

My core is blocked and my south protected by a stack of quick horses. Beams coast is blocked as well; so I'll take the landroute with knights to Beams core.

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Rik Meleet/2005125182129_124 Core block.JPG
88.39KB

Beam just got Construction and is also in the Middle Ages. In Despotism, with no Golden Age (I still think he is clueless I am in my Golden Age) and nearly 2 MA techs down I should be able to build a lot of knights to march into Beamia. I don't think Beam can do a lot to hurt me anymore. My core is protected, my south is protected, I am outproducing him at least 2,5 times. It's only a matter of time; unless Beam drops of a huge stack in my south. But then also I'll have 20 horses and several MDI's near him in 1 or 2 turns.

My only problem is War Wearniss (hence the Spice-city gamble). If I can get down lux by just 10% it gains me about 46 gpt, or 46 science per turn.

I'll hold research when I have Chivalry. It will then be all out knights. [charge]

[Kingreno]

Great stuff. Interesting despo vs republic here. If you stop research after chiv (which is a very good idea indeed!) you can up the luxslider very high and with that you will win the game. I think.

[Rik Meleet]

I have The Republic + Monotheism + Feudalism up on Beam and I have Chivalry in 2 turns. In the Eastern most city "Beam can't heal anymore" there will be about 25 horsemen to be upgraded (but I'll be near 0 gold when I get Chivalry).A few turns of full cash will do the trick. The city "Beam can't heal anymore" doesn't have rax, but the city just to the north does.

Beam is trying to speed up research by mass-building libraries. I still lack Literature, but I don't care. It will be a futile attempt. I soon have 25 knights going in.

See the culture graph to reflect my temple (sold a long time ago) and the Mausoleum + Forbidden Palace effect. And the Beamian increase due to libraries.

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Rik Meleet/2005126212559_129 culture.JPG
26.02KB

[Pastorius]

Impressive. And what a load of units you guys have too. Go Beam the sucker down on a remote planet and turn off the power to the transport room. Stranding the away team? Scotty cant help now.

[Rik Meleet]

This is my army when I discovered Chivalry. My income is now +236 gpt.

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Rik Meleet/2005126225634_army.JPG
32.56KB

[Lt. Killer M]

wow, this is evolving more and more into the slugfest I was hoping for [thumbsup]

[akots]

Looks like a sure win imo. Just need to pull all force and strike hard. And battle war weariness with luxuries and slider. [thumbsup]

[Rik Meleet]

Turn 140 - The Empire strikes back

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Rik Meleet/2005129235626_knight attack.JPG
85.58*KB

Beam has Feudalism, my Golden Age is only a memory of history and my research is nonexistent, except for 1 guy who just can't stop.

I had no gold after the discovery of Chivalry and horse to knights cost 120 gold each. I am making only enough money for 3 upgrades every 2 turns (barely). Nevertheless; I need to put pressure on Beam so I attacked with about 20 knights and 2 elite horsemen. His city "Kiss" is the first target. (He never had time to also build "My" and "Ass".) I will rename his cities for him ;). My first plan to do a naval landing won't succeed; like me Beam has blocked every suitable landing tile. So it's over land that I'll go.

My whole nation is building either knights or markets or barracks. The flow of units won't stop anymore. Even if my first attack fails the flow of knights won't stop. It will be a war of attrition with knights against pikes. I will suffer from War weariness, but once all my horses are upgraded I won't need a lot of cash anyway so I can up the lux-slider.

[charge]

[akots]

You can always part-rush the knights.

[Rcoutme]

In case you are wondering what Akots means...pick a cheaper unit, rush it, then switch to knights...you get a partial rushing (cheaper than full rush since you won't lose the shield production in the city for the rush turn).

[Rik Meleet]

I know Rcoutme.
I'm using it already in my 20 spt capitol. Knights are 70 shields, so after 1 turn of production on knights I change to Pike, cashrush them and change back to knights.
Knights in 3.

[Rik Meleet]

I got him !

In turn 156 I razed "Kiss". I had to use my very last unit ELite horseman to kill the last defender. In the turn I killed 14 units with 34 units.

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Rik Meleet/200525141452_156 Kiss.JPG
27.68KB

The next turn I saw this:

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Rik Meleet/200525141522_Victory 157.JPG
54.9KB

And took it:

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Rik Meleet/200525141558_Last city taken.JPG
43.31KB

Thanks for the game Beam.

[Kingreno]

[party] Congrats Rik!!! [party]


well played, and great Spoiling![thumbsup]

[Beam]

Congratulations Rik. Nice game and you played it very well.

My plan was based on getting you lots of WW / anarchy when I saw you went at Republic but it apperently doesn't kick in as fast on this level (Prinz, same as regent?). And when you got Feud it became very hard to maintain the offensive.

EDIT: Great spoiler, as you guessed I didn't realize about the GA although I should know it because I had a similar GA in the traitless Deathmatch III. You played it very well and I played it very poor.

I guess you got enough advice about Temples, the only common situation to build one is when a city is very close to another Civ and cultural pressure is needed.

[akots]

Well executed and great write up! Congratulations!

[Banzai]

Great victory Rik! Congrats :)

[Beam]

Almost forgot to say, there is a honorary title on my behalf naming band and songname for my last city.

Hint: my first stereo was a Philips 2x4 W tube radio, 4-speed vinyl record player with a 10 gram ceramic element and a mono fully mechanic mono cassette recorder. Not state-of-the art at that time but it impressed my friends. :)

If col isn't going to get this one I'll eat the album the song is on. Shit, that might be more expensive than a full diner at the Sushi bar.

[Rik Meleet]

When I saw it I thought that it was a part of a song. Just not sure which song / artist. No Honorary title for me :(

I remembered it: But I won't tell

[Beam]

You got yourself a honorary title Mr.! Hm, this calls for a blue bus smiley.

Can you edit the post and make it a puzzle for granddad Col?