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Dell19
04-11-2004, 17:41
Haven't played a turn yet... :)

Dell19
07-11-2004, 16:31
We need to decide on what everyone is researching although I am still unsure on which techs are tradeable...

I'm planning on trying to cut roads where possible and to simply defend for the time being.

romeothemonk
08-11-2004, 02:46
I am going for Advanced flight then nukes. I like nukes. Justus is going for Amphib war. We are both running a surplus gpt. We can gift that gpt to you guys if you need it. I am going for primarily nukes however. I think Dell is the key, as how China fairs is pretty much how the allies fair. I will try and hold Manila so I have a nuke launching pad. If you need anything, gold resources luxes, please let me know, but I think I have gifted all of my luxes away. In this, I think drafting could be our friend, at least somewhat.

romeothemonk
08-11-2004, 15:14
There is a large Jap fleet by Manila, but it is wounded. I am bringing up my ships and fortifying Manila. I will next try and get an airport in Manila, and make Arghis have a bad day. I am also trying to get some workers out so I can improve all my lands or at least get 50 SPT in my American Heartland cities. ROPs were accepted all around.

Dell19
08-11-2004, 16:12
I plan on drafting everything possible, some GPT might be useful as then up the science rate slightly or be able to rush build some units occasionally.

romeothemonk
08-11-2004, 17:02
I don't think you need to have any science there Dell. I think all your gold might be best to rush units? I really don't know. I need my extra gpt until I get an airport in Manila, then I will give all I can, usually in Lump sums however.

Dell19
08-11-2004, 17:16
Ok you may be right about cutting back on research since techs cost a lot...

Justus II
08-11-2004, 18:18
I'd agree with Romeo, between the two of us, with our reseach infrastructure, we should be able to research all the techs we need. You and the Dutch should focus on rushing troops to slow his advance. I should be playing my turns later today. My plans at the moment are fortifying and trying to slow him down, while I get Australia's productivity and rail net completed, so I can build a strong counterattack force.

Pastorius
08-11-2004, 19:09
So Dell Justus and Romeo, you guys are playing allies against the evil Arghis of Japan? Is he that tough? [:p]

can anyone be bothered to post screenshots; I know more or less what the game looks like, having played 2 turns on it in SP mode; but it would be cool to see some strategic maps with arrows and the like.

If you ask ProPain, I am sure he will lend you a few of his professional arrows ;) :D


BTW, I was going to post something profounnd, but Dell's avatar has me spellbound

[drool]

Dell19
08-11-2004, 20:47
I'm hoping all cities will hold this turn although I've realised that I only have one source of rubber so I may need to request more rubber soon if the source is destroyed. Sadly I saw the post above too late to take any screenshots. Basically I need to link up the SW city west of Nanning with my main army currently residing in Hankow since thats where there are quite a few Japanese troops.

Justus II
08-11-2004, 20:53
Well, I can post the screenshots I have, although they may not be the most exciting, as I haven't seen much action yet.

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Justus II/2004118194856_WITP_Jan42_NW.jpg
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This is the NW front. Japan took Rangoon on turn one, so I've focused on building up Mandalay, drafting and rushing walls. On the peninsula, I know I will probably lose Bhuket soon, but I've been bombarding the roads/rails nearby (see the circled crater), and hope to force him to advance slowly down all those hills. I also moved my 2 BBs to the far side, where they can give bombardment support (hopefully) without being spotted.

Sibu and Singapore are being reinforced, by air (at Singapore), and by DD at Sibu. I have a transport enroute from Perth with ANZAC and an artillery. Kudat is another expendable town, but I think Sibu can hold for a while. Notice his fleet near Manila, 2 ships are damaged, but he still has a lot of firepower.

Justus II
08-11-2004, 21:00
In the east, even less action. I've been building up at Rabaul and Port Moresby, although I haven't seen any invasion forces coming out of Truk yet. I flew one infantry into Tarawa (north of this map) and then sold the airfield, I just wanted to make him work for it. I sank one sub at the spot marked, there's another 2 tiles north of that.

I've rushed (and short-rushed) some infrastructure on Australia, including a couple airports, so we should be able to crank up production quickly, and get them to the front quickly as well.

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Justus II/2004118195437_WITP_Jan42_E.jpg
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Dell19
08-11-2004, 21:12
Watch out for marines... Reading the CFC v Poly thread, it has been the Japanese marines that have given them the edge by being able to strike poorly defended cities where Poly has tried to defend one city to lose another.

On the first picture in Kumming I have 4 infantry, 2 guerillas, a BG battalion and 1 artillary whilst he has 5 Nipponese infantry on the hill so if he has a couple of 4 movement units he could potentially take the city. Hopefully I will have more troops in the city next turn since I can't afford to lose any more cities. The situation in the east seems more positive in general since I now have quite a lot of units in the city and that will always continue although there are still gaps in the defense which isn't helped by my lack of a complete rail network.

Rcoutme
09-11-2004, 21:59
Ok, I finally found the forum, sorry for the late arrival. I wish I could have gotten here sooner, it would have saved you all a lot of pain. America, you need to build airports in your trees, that's right, trees. Workers are cheaper than airports. You can airlift any number of unit TO an airport/field but only one FROM an airport/field.

China: don't research anything, use all your money for units. Cut all the railways and roads of Japan's mainland system that you can, especially the SE Asia ones (Commonwealth, you too).

As for me, I will do my damndest to hold onto whatever I can. It will be hard as hell, but our Japanese opponent is not experienced in this scenario (that is crystal clear due to his abortive first two turns).

The big keys to winning this are: Cities and loss of troops give the BIG victory points. Don't spend too many resources protecting white obelisks, they are not worth it!

America: get an A-bomb as fast as you can. Get lots of A-bombs. Keep on getting A-bombs.
A-bombs destroy many (sometimes all) troops in every square around the point of attack (thus a 9 square attack)! Those that survive are often very damaged!. This makes taking islands really easy, drop an A-bomb next to the city, poof, no defenders (or not many).

Commonwealth: get us marines as fast as you can! We must make the Japanese defend his cities. Not only that, marines are tough buggers! My infantry suck!

Rcoutme
09-11-2004, 22:06
A few more things: China, don't wait too long to go to wartime mobilization. America, protect your oil and rubber with conscripts (once you have one unit on a resource it can not be bombed). Commonwealth: protect your rubber and the roads to it. America, get a worker to that extra rubber just in case and make a colony. China, protect your rubber. America, finish up your needed improvements and then go to wartime production.

Remember, wartime production only helps with ground troops: this includes marines, infantry, tanks, flak. It does not include artillery, planes, ships, or any buildings. Also, once in wartime production ----- you ain't never comin' out!

Justus II
10-11-2004, 01:32
Rcoutme,

Great advice, but one point, I'm almost positive that Mobilization DOES give the bonus for warships, (CA, BB, Sub). It does NOT give the bonus for ships with the transport flag, like transports, carriers, and in this scenario, Destroyers, so maybe that's what you were thinking of. I totally agree on research, the U.S. and myself (Commonwealth) can easily maintain a 4-turn pace, so China and Dutch should save their cash for rushing troops. Didn't realize the VP sites weren't worth that much, but it makes sense for a short scenario.

Dell19
10-11-2004, 01:36
I may potentially lose my rubber this turn as I valued trying to hold the city as more important than the resource source which I can hopefully get from other people anyway.

Rcoutme
13-11-2004, 00:04
Dang it! Stupid Flak aren't good for anything! Did you guys know that they can't even cut your own roads? Well, anyways, Dell, you need to get some guys out of your Borneo cities and cut those roads! The Japanese player will use them to beat the hell out of us later! I have just started to move some infantry around to do that. Do not abandon cities to do it, but if you have one extra guy, send him out to cut the lines...

Can somebody send me some cash? I need to finish some Aqueducts in very unproductive cities and then go to wartime production.

Rcoutme
13-11-2004, 00:06
D'oh! Forgot two things! Dell you are Chinese, Commonwealth: you need to cut the roads in Borneo! Dell: you need to send me silk!

Dell19
13-11-2004, 13:02
Which roads?

Justus II
13-11-2004, 21:16
OK, I've torn up some more roads and cratered some choke points, no new spottings of the Jap fleet. Rcoutme, I know you have more experience with this scenario than I do, so maybe I'm missing something. But Japan has 2 sources of Rubber already, so denying ours doesn't seem that useful? And I only have 2 sources of oil, (1 south of Mandalay, one on Borneo). If I pillage both of them, how will I build anything? Does anyone else have spare oil to sell me? Thanks for any advice.

romeothemonk
13-11-2004, 22:41
I have no spare resources, and have sent my extra gold to Rcoutme.

Dell19
13-11-2004, 22:54
I'm worried how easily my main northern city fell since I felt it was reasonably secure. Looks like I may lose another city this turn as well...

Heres the stack that I'm facing whilst I have about 9 units in the city... I'm worried ju

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Dell19/20041113215228_china1.JPG
257.55KBst how quickly he could take every city that I have since that stack with new units could reach my capital in 3 turns and I don't know how many units I could have there whilst he still has more troops in the north.

romeothemonk
13-11-2004, 23:11
Hmm. Good work on killing one of his armies. We, i.e. the rest of us will bring help ASAP. We get Marines in 2-3 turns, and then the fun begins.

Dell19
13-11-2004, 23:51
Okay, it seems as if he has concentrated on attacking on the mainland rather than the islands...

Rcoutme
14-11-2004, 00:36
If he is concentrating this much on China, I say cut the roads behind him and kick him in the behind (i.e. the south!) Commonwealth, airlift as many units as you can into Singapore. I will start arming my destroyers and lone transport with units to invade SE Asia.

US, get your destroyers out of Manilla! What are you doing??? If Manilla fell, he would have gotten all the VP's for killing them!

Btw, sell every improvement you can if you expect a city to fall, that way the Japanese player does not get it...

romeothemonk
14-11-2004, 01:46
Manilla has 6 troops fortified in it. It will not fall very easily at all. I am going to be using my destroyers to attack with arilifted marines. It also has fighter cover.

Rcoutme
14-11-2004, 03:14
Well you may need more than 6. Airlift more troops. Get some flak, they at least have an AA capability and will absorb one ground assault in a pinch. I do like the idea of having marines start from Manilla bay, though :)

romeothemonk
14-11-2004, 07:09
I am currently building bombers and MG battalions, but will switch to Marines, and Nukes as soon as they come availible. In my reading experience, I think the commonwealth puts the meat to the metal, while the U.S. tangles with the fleets and drops the big bomb. And does the research. China and the Dutch absorb blows, and counter when they can. Already knocking off one of his armies is huge. I think with the scroll ahead trick Justus can get a few marines in action in 2, and myself in 3, one to airlift, so technically four turns.
On an unrelated note I will be out of town for a job interview until Monday at 10:45 PM.
Thanks y'all. This is turning out to be quite the game.

romeothemonk
14-11-2004, 16:02
I got my turn in before my flight left. Excellent Smithers. This turn I am positioning for an offensive in 2 turns.He is sailing a portion of his fleet towards my caost, where I will ambush him with 3 subs, 3 carriers, 2 cruisers, etc. F4F's appear only to be good for recon.
I sunk a random sub looking for my carriers, and killed a fighter at Kwajalein. I will get an airfield at Manila and at wake next turn. I also get the big bombers next turn. I have 2 cities at 50 spt, and have a Manhatten Prebuild going. Manilla still has plenty of defenders, and should continue to get more every turn.

Pastorius
14-11-2004, 17:48
Sounds like Romeo's americans are doing good, but Dell is in trouble.
I guess Japan has an advantage both in military strength and in initiative in the first part of the game?

Justus II
16-11-2004, 05:59
Actually launched a slight counter-offensive this turn, I had a shot at a paratroop at the airfield outside of Kumming, so I took it. Easier to get him before he drops, and I think he only has a limited number to start. At least he will have to divert someone to kill my ANZAC now, or I can destroy the airfield next turn too. Here's the situation in Burma, I've sold off everything but Walls in Mithyanki (just northwest of the airfield), I doubt it can hold long if he wants it. I've pillaged the road through the mountains. I'll make my stand at Mandalay, I've pillaged the tiles south of there (the 2 ANZAC are on the oil, I pillaged the rails, road next turn). At least I can make him pay to take it, and it will be unconnected.

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Justus II/2004111643724_WITP_Burma.jpg
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Notice I've also been tearing up the ground near Khudat to slow any advance down the Malaysian peninsula, Khudat (and Kuala Lumpur) are expendable if I have to as long as I protect Singapore. Within 2 turns, I will have a decent fleet (2BB, 2CA, 4DD, a Transport, and 2 subs) at Singapore, waiting for the Marines to fly in! :D My target will be Saigon, as that's his oil source right now.

On the other hand, he hasn't sent EVERYTHING against China:
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Justus II/200411164424_WITP_Rabaul.jpg
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I spotted this fleet inbound south of Truk, and my bomber was able to red-line a cruiser. No transports, but 5 DD's means (worst case) 5 Marines. I was barely able to get 5 defenders to Rabaul, (that's why the DDs are in port, they brought in the last 2 units), so it could get ugly. But if at least one defender can hold on, I've got a relief fleet on the way.

My big question now is research: What should I go for after Amphib? My choices are Airborne (Paras), Armored Tactics (Med. Tanks), and Naval Tactics (Allows Naval Academy). I'm leaning to Naval Tactics, as the improved movement will help me and the U.S. get ships into action faster. It's only 200 shields with AP, and Brisbane can do 50spt, so I could complete the wonder the same turn I research it. My main concern is the US needs to build the wonder too, so I want to know if they want it also.

I only have a couple pre-builds to swap to Marines (Port Moresby is one), but I've just finished rushing the last of my factories, and my last 2 power plants finish this turn, so I will be ready to Mobilize next turn, and will have several cities building a Marine every other turn. Hang in there! [cool]

Rcoutme
16-11-2004, 06:10
The Med. tanks are far more useful. I would recommend that. Btw, cutting the road means that his tank army can not get through the mountains...

Justus II
16-11-2004, 07:04
But will anyone be building any Medium tanks in the next 4 turns? I agree we need all of those techs, but I'll be busy building Marines for a few turns, anyway, and I know the U.S. is concentrating on aircraft and defenders. I guess the real question is China, do you want to build tanks right away? At 4 turns per, we will quickly get all the techs, it's just a matter of which ones we'll use soonest. If my allies are ready to build some better tanks, then that's the route I'll go, but if everyone else is busy building other stuff, I'd like to get the faster ships.

As for the road, I knew it would slow him down, but I don't think it will stop him. According to the editor, at least, tanks aren't wheeled in this scenario, so I think they can still enter mountains. Am I missing something? [???]

romeothemonk
16-11-2004, 07:17
The Medium Tanks are not airliftable in this scenario. Therefore, unless you rush the tanks builds, it really doesn't help that much. I think he starts with 7 marines, and I have killed 2 already and a third sits ouside of Manila. Your islands should hold. When I gift you advanced flight, maybe go for jet fighters next? I do not think that 200 shields for 1 ship movement is a fair trade for me, but it might be for you. I really plan on building no new ships.
One of the nastiest combo's in the game can be set up shortly. Justus will give me a target, I nuke it on my turn, and he sends in 2-3 marines to take the city. Brilliant, devious, and dang near unstoppable.
Dell, What do you need to hold on? Let us know and I will try and send what I can.

Rcoutme
16-11-2004, 08:01
From what Dell and I have been talking about, Dell needs cash, lots of it. Actually, you guys may want to slow down some of your research to allow him some speedy MG so he can hold at least some of his cities. I don't want to speak for him, but I know that his schedule has him asleep right now. He has a light schedule of lectures on Tuesday (maybe he is eating breakfast) so then he can give his input, but China needs to hold if we are to win. Or at least needs to hold for a long time.

Dell19
16-11-2004, 13:21
Apparently that message was posted at 7am... Anyway got to go to lectures now...

Dell19
16-11-2004, 21:18
Gold would be appreciated this turn as it would allow me to rush build a couple of MGs. My capital and one of the northern cities will both have 2 MGs after this turn but with extra cash I could rush build some in other cities to bolster my defenses.

Justus II
16-11-2004, 22:31
I should be able to send you several hundred gold next turn, as I was able to turn down research for the last turn on Amphib Warfare. What about the tanks question? Will you be ready to build tanks within the next four turns, or are you concentrating on MGs/Defense? I can still get 4-turn research at 30-40%, so now that my rushes are done, I can send some decent cash and still research.

Dell19
16-11-2004, 22:42
For the next few turns I'm planning on building mainly defensive units so that if Japan continues to attack over the next few turns, those attacks will find it harder to break through.

Rcoutme
16-11-2004, 23:10
In a daring, but fantastically significant mission, the commander of submarine SS K-XV discovered the enemy's weakness! He has left his airport, and most importantly! oil, completely undefended!

To our Commonwealth allies we say: Hit that oil with every bomber and ship that you have! You can't miss! He has absolutely nothing on it. Even one little conscript would stop you from cutting the roads, but he has nothing!

No oil means no planes and no ships!

Justus II
16-11-2004, 23:33
Awesome discovery! I have 2 bombers in Sibu, as well as a couple destroyers if needed. Suprised the Airfield is empty as well, he had several fighters there a couple turns ago, one shot my bomber down! Must have shifted those aircraft to back up his assault on Manila.

romeothemonk
17-11-2004, 15:37
Well I sent everyone advanced flight. He really sold out on Manila there, so I doubt any Marines are by Rabual. I will get fission in 6, as it must be a really pricey tech. His carriers have turned tail, and I am now producing and going to fill my carriers with Heavy Bombers.
I have 1 airfield up, another next turn and as soon as I get Marines, Kwajalien is mine, so in about 2 turns. F4F's really suck. I have no gold to send anywhere, as I am eating all my gold. I will probably check for buildings I can sell to get more gold.

Rcoutme
17-11-2004, 21:25
Heavy bombers can not go onto carriers, IIRC

Justus II
17-11-2004, 21:42
I've gotten the save, and will play tonight.

Re: Heavy Bombers, according to the Pedia they can be based on carriers, but we all know the pedia's been wrong before. I didn't check in the editor for that yet. I'm actually working on a chart with all unit stats and abilities, for this conquest, I will hopefully finish and post it tonight also.

Oil
I'm currently down to only one source of oil, SE of Khudat. (Mandalay is isolated, and while I'm going to try to make him fight for it, I've already got troops in position to pillage the oil there.) As for the source by Khudat, I’ve cut the road adjacent to it, so if Khudat falls, he still won’t have it connected right away. Right now, the trade route for that oil is getting to me through the Dutch roads near Sangkoelrang. If that city falls, or if the Dutch pillage that road network, I will lose access to oil, and I will need the Dutch to offer me oil (Same turn, if possible). I had originally looked at Khudat as expendable, but I think especially with the fall of Manila, and us hitting his oil at Saigon, that will be his next target, so I’m going to try to beef up the defenses. I don’t think it will hold for long, though, and when it falls, the cultural boundaries will adjust and I’ll still need oil from the Dutch, unless I try to build a colony on that oil (which I couldn't defend for long anyway!).

Justus II
18-11-2004, 07:54
Resources
I reported in the open thread, but thanks to Dutch intelligence, our mission was a success! The cost of one fighter is well worth denying him all aircraft and most ship builds (Destroyers don’t require oil). In addition to destroying his oil near Saigon, I’ve also cratered my oil source by Mandalay. I will try to hold out there for as long as I can, and at least make him pay for it. I’ve already mentioned my concern about depending on the oil at Khudat, hopefully I can secure some oil from the Dutch and pillage my own source, so I can pull back from Khudat to concentrate at Sibu.

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Justus II/2004111864313_WITP_Apr_Oil.jpg
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Research Thoughts
After reviewing the tech costs, I decided to pursue Naval Tactics after all. The faster movement will be significant if I’m going to be launching a lot of amphibious assaults, and can help give me an element of surprise. For example, with the +1 move, I can hit Saigon from Singapore in one turn, which is my first likely target. Also, it’s the cheapest of my research choices, I can get it in 4 turns while still generating +200gpt, so I can funnel cash to China. Armored tactics would only leave me 100gpt, and Jet Engines is nearly break-even. Brisbane started a pre-build that will hit 200s in exactly 4 turns.

While looking at the costs, however, I also noticed something interesting. Airborne Warfare has the same base cost as Armored tactics, but it’s cheaper for me to research. Since none of us have researched it so far… Therefore, he plans on building more paratroops in the near future. However, he’s only going to be able to finish those he started construction on this turn, as paratroops take oil! :D

The other thought I had is that it also means he has NOT researched Amphib. War or Advanced Flight yet. Since his cost will also drop, the more of us that have each tech, I’m thinking we shouldn’t just spread them around unless we each need the tech. Why make it cheaper for him to research? So I did not send Amphib to China, I can’t imagine they’ll be building any Marines. I did send it to the Dutch, but if you don’t plan on building Marines right away, just refuse the offer, I can always resend it later if you need it. Same goes for Advanced Flight, Romeo sent it to everyone (and in my rush, I resent it to China and the Dutch), but if you don’t plan on building Fighter-Bombers or Heavy Bombers, just refuse it. I do think the fighter-bombers are a good value, especially since they get the Mobilization bonus while normal bombers do not, so if you are planning on building aircraft, go ahead and take the tech. But if you’re not, put it off for a few turns and maybe we can make him pay a little extra.

Justus II
18-11-2004, 07:57
Intel Updates
I’m not sure if the loss of 2 bombers, or the lack of damage to my defenders, made Japan rethink the Rabaul assault, but the fleet has split up. 3 cruisers headed east after the bombardment, and were spotted by my sub, I was able to sink the Furutako at the spot marked. The rest of his fleet, the CV Ryujo, a CA, and 5DD, headed west, they may be headed for the Dutch at Sarmi.

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Justus II/200411186554_WITP_Apr_NG.jpg
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Future Plans
I have my first Marine at Rabaul, which now has 8 defenders, and should be able to hold out for quite a while. I have 6 Marines and 6 Fighter-Bombers which will finish within the next 3 turns. My plan is to airlift them all to Singapore, and by August (when Naval Academy completes) I will be able to launch the counterattack and take Saigon. This will prevent him from reconnecting the oil, and gives us a foothold to open a second front. By then, the US should be able to start their island-hopping campaign from the east. :)

Justus II
18-11-2004, 08:00
quote:Originally posted by Rcoutme

Heavy bombers can not go onto carriers, IIRC


I haven't tested in-game yet, but in the editor, Heavy Bombers have all the same flags set as the other aircraft, so it appears they should load onto carriers just fine. Suprisingly, the one aircraft that does NOT have the load flag is the Kamakazi! I don't know if that's because of the Cruise Missile flag, but since CMs can't load on normal carriers, it may indeed mean that Kamakazi's can't load on carriers. I haven't played this as Japan, so I've never tried.

Dell19
18-11-2004, 17:18
I'm not going to accept either tech for now as I don't see myself using either tech for the near future.

Dell19
18-11-2004, 18:07
Ended up accepting the bomber tech since the cash was sent with it... :\ Should have a few extra MGs this turn since 5 cities will complete one each this turn assuming none get captured... Hankow has been reconnected to the rest of the nation and a conscript is being used to guard it from future destruction whilst a couple of key resources are also being guarded since Japan dropped their second paratrooper on a key resource this turn.

Rcoutme
18-11-2004, 22:26
kamikazees can not load on ships...that is definate. They also only have a range of 4. They are a poor investment, IMHO. I will not even research the tech in my game...

Justus II
18-11-2004, 23:28
quote:Originally posted by Dell19

Ended up accepting the bomber tech since the cash was sent with it... :\ Should have a few extra MGs this turn since 5 cities will complete one each this turn assuming none get captured... Hankow has been reconnected to the rest of the nation and a conscript is being used to guard it from future destruction whilst a couple of key resources are also being guarded since Japan dropped their second paratrooper on a key resource this turn.


Strange, I deliberately sent the cash as a seperate offer, so you could refuse the tech. Civ must just combine all diplo offers made on the same turn in PBEM?

Dell19
19-11-2004, 00:41
It is odd since I think I have received multiple offers before in other PBEMs but on this one they were merged together and to only accept the gold would have meant waiting another turn...

Justus II
19-11-2004, 02:26
Hmm. Don't know why they were combined then. Sorry! At least you got the gold, that's the most important part.

romeothemonk
21-11-2004, 16:40
Not much happened here. Getting stock exchanges instead of Marines, as otherwise I would waste 50+ shields in 2 cities. Sold some buildings, civil defense in my core, saw no enemy anywhere. Advancing with my fleet, which now has heavy bomber support. Getting closer and closer to island hopping showdown. Heavy bombers can go on carriers.

Pastorius
21-11-2004, 16:43
Justus - happened to me too when I tried to offer Ginger Ale bronze working. I sent the proposal twice in the same turn, and when he returned it, bronze working was listed 2 times in the same window.Weird

romeothemonk
21-11-2004, 16:53
I should be able to mobolize next turn or so, and then really crank out the Marines, as I have 1 city that can currently do 1 turn marines, after I fixed its terrain this turn. I have so much land to improve, it is ridiculus.

Rcoutme
22-11-2004, 00:31
Unfortunately, the worst problem is that we can not offer each other workers...

Justus II
22-11-2004, 22:47
Here’s the situation around New Guinea. The cruisers I sank were the remnants from last turn’s engagement, his invasion fleet must still be in or around Sarmi. I have plenty of troops in Port Moresby, but limited air cover, so until I can build up more, I am defending in place. I did sink 2 CA (one vet) and a sub (noted in the open thread). I have 2 CA and 3 DD in that squadron, with 2 more vet CA’s steaming to join them.

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Justus II/20041122214422_CW_May42_Sol.jpg
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Here’s the map of Borneo. I shifted several more defenders, and 2 CA, into Sibu. I also have my first 2 fighter-bombers there, as well as 3 fighters and a bomber. Hopefully, his marines will have to heal for a turn. If I can hold another turn, I can use my fleet and air power to start bombarding him and wearing him down. I do need Oil, though, as I’ve lost my last source.

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Justus II/20041122214544_WITP_May42_Borneo.jpg
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Rcoutme
22-11-2004, 23:11
Ok, I will try my best to remember. I will send any oil I have even if it is the last source...you would need it more than me.

Dell19
22-11-2004, 23:15
Another MG and a light tank will be built this turn whilst 4 of my cities are now connected by railroads with three conscripts covering key points and a couple more covering resources.

Rcoutme
22-11-2004, 23:46
I sent oil to the Commonwealth (preaccepted, so accept before you offer anything back). I had to go into a city and quell rioting as my replacement did not do such a good job last month...

I now have MG's in lots of cities and will soon start looking to build marines...

Justus II
23-11-2004, 00:31
quote:Originally posted by Rcoutme

I sent oil to the Commonwealth (preaccepted, so accept before you offer anything back). I had to go into a city and quell rioting as my replacement did not do such a good job last month...

I now have MG's in lots of cities and will soon start looking to build marines...


[confused] Strange, I know I double-checked all cities, while MM'ing them. Which city was it? I may have moved a unit out that was needed for MP after checking. Or did you lose a luxury? [blush2] Sorry about that!

I will send Amphib warfare then if you are ready to build marines.

Rcoutme
23-11-2004, 00:54
Don't worry much, it was a city that is a lonely little island with no harbor or infantry units (I just happened to have parked my CA's in it). One lost turn will not seriously hurt it.

Rcoutme
23-11-2004, 00:56
By the way, Justus, just how big to plan on letting Singapore get before drafting some of its citizens? You get ANZACS when you draft. That might help out the Chinese situation...although I can't speak for you as you may be using the cash to give to the Chinese anyways...

I was simply noticing that it is getting very large and if the Japanese ever did manage, by some miracle, to take the place, the victory points would be enormous.

Justus II
23-11-2004, 01:45
I have drafted a couple, but since it's one of my few cities with factory, Power plant, and Airport, I have it building a Fighter/Bomber every other turn, so I need to keep it's production up. I am sending all my cash to China (250gpt last 2 turns). The problem with throwing conscripts into combat is that they are only half as effective as a vet infantry, but give just as many VPs to the enemy. I should be able to land at Saigon in 3 turns, though, which will take some pressure off China. Especially as he is out of oil, so every aircraft he loses can't be replaced.

romeothemonk
23-11-2004, 06:19
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/romeothemonk/200411235178_fleet.jpg
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I sunk his ships listed in the main thread, but they appeared to be pickets for this fleet. I have 4 carriers and some land based planes within range next turn, but this could get ugly. At least none of you will have to worry about his carrier fleet for a few turns.

romeothemonk
23-11-2004, 06:21
Can I still build the Manhatten project while mobolized?

Rcoutme
23-11-2004, 06:26
You should be able to build the Manhatten Project since it is militaristic. In addition, you would be able to build the naval small wonder, the Military Academy and the Pentagon.

Justus II
23-11-2004, 06:29
quote:Originally posted by romeothemonk

Can I still build the Manhatten project while mobolized?


Yes, as long as the wonder has the Militaristic flag, it can be built under mobilization. The only one that can't be is the History of WWII, which is the Heroic Epic of this scenario. It's not militaristic, it's religious. [crazyeye]

Justus II
23-11-2004, 07:43
June 1942 sent. He is serious about reconnecting the Oil at Saigon, he has moved a worker and 2 flak there, and another flak and a Zero at the adjacent airfield. With only one worker, he shouldn't get it reconnected in time. He will have to clear the craters first, and I should be able to land within 3 turns. My first 3 marines airlifted into Singapore this turn, with a couple more moving to airports. I didn't make many attacks, putting my fighter/bombers on A/S missions to cover Sibu. I bombarded some more roads as well.

I also sent 200g to China, and Amphib Warfare to the Dutch.

Rcoutme
23-11-2004, 07:51
He does NOT have to clear craters. Oil is useable even if cratered. However...it is good that you will be attacking soon. Ironically...all he needs is one conscript and no amount of bombardment would destroy the roads...

Dell19
23-11-2004, 18:53
Its getting dangerous...

He has units around Hankow which would give him about 18 attacks although 2 units are already damaged slightly. Last turn he managed to damage 8 units heavily, this turn I will have 26 units in the city which hopefully will be enough to keep the city. It will largely depend on how many extra tanks he can add and how much extra bombard power he can add to the fight from last turn.

Rcoutme
23-11-2004, 19:55
@JustusII you sent the tech just in time...the first Dutch marines will come out of training next turn! Not sure why you did not send it earlier, since he already has that one anyways... My subs noticed that Puerto Princess is devoid of any ground troops. Not sure if he will remedy that situation during his turn.

Justus II
23-11-2004, 22:51
quote:Originally posted by Rcoutme

@JustusII you sent the tech just in time...the first Dutch marines will come out of training next turn! Not sure why you did not send it earlier, since he already has that one anyways... My subs noticed that Puerto Princess is devoid of any ground troops. Not sure if he will remedy that situation during his turn.


Sorry, I didn't know he started with that tech, I knew he had some marines at the start, but I thought I'd read he couldn't build more right away. That's why I asked about it earlier. What about Advanced Flight? Do you still need that, or have you got it already?

Dell19
23-11-2004, 23:17
I'm guessing that he cut the two raillines which isolate the city again...

Rcoutme
23-11-2004, 23:17
Actually...he does NOT start with that...and I am not currently doing much with aircraft. I will hold off on Adv. Flight until either I need it or we see Japanese heavy bombers or fighter-bombers

romeothemonk
24-11-2004, 01:35
Can someone, hint hint Justus, send me roughly 40 gold this turn? I will be able to repay with massive interest in 3 turns.

Rcoutme
24-11-2004, 02:16
I will...I can use massive interest :)

Justus II
24-11-2004, 04:47
July turn taken and sent. A sub is still showing only a cruiser defending Puerto Princess, so if you have marines in range, take it! My nearest marines were in Singapore, and I'm still setting up for the invasion of Saigon, and don't want to tip my hand yet. He now has 2 workers on the oil (with 2 Flak), it's not connected yet, but will be soon. I can invade next turn with 5 marines, or the following turn with 8 (and increasing from 5 to 8 Fighter/Bombers available). I'm inclined to wait the extra turn to be sure of a decisive landing, I don't want to just barely get ashore. I will also have some MGs and Flaks to defend the beachhead.

I didn't realize earlier that Japan started with both Amhib and Airborne warfare, so my conclusion that he researched Airborne as his first tech was wrong. Instead, I think he went for Naval Tactics, as my cost to complete dropped dramatically this turn, and I had checked to see if I could save some gold last turn, so I'm pretty sure he's completed his first research topic.

Rcoutme
24-11-2004, 04:52
If you think that you can take Saigon, you can always garrison it with standard troops...

Justus II
24-11-2004, 04:58
Well, that's the question, if I can take it with 5 marines. I don't know what he has there for defenders. I don't want to invade, only find out he has 6 units in the town, and then he can reinforce by rail from China. I'm not as worried about the garrison, I know I can shuttle over more troops quickly enough. Waiting another turn will also let me rush another transport, though, so I can carry more defenders over with the first wave.

Rcoutme
24-11-2004, 07:05
Ok...one other way to find out is to bomb it. You count how many guys you damage. If there are only 2 or 3 (as seems likely) then he can be taken early.

Justus II
24-11-2004, 07:12
quote:Originally posted by Rcoutme

Ok...one other way to find out is to bomb it. You count how many guys you damage. If there are only 2 or 3 (as seems likely) then he can be taken early.


That's my plan. With 2 flaks on the oil, and one on the adjacent airfield, I'm hoping he doesn't have much actually in the city. Depending on what he does on his turn, I'd like to fly enough to see what he's got. The only problem would be if he's returned much of his fleet there, as they will usually absorb some of the bombing, and I might not get a good read. I've left my forces ready to attack next turn if it seems like a good opportunity, or able to wait another turn if I have to.

romeothemonk
24-11-2004, 16:48
I would start the attack ASAP, as it is guaranteed to releive pressure off of Dell. I do not think he has much in his city, but I like the idea of bombing it to find out just what he has there. Your guy's plans are very nice and devious. I like them.

Dell19
25-11-2004, 01:03
He does seem to be moving more and more units around me. Part of his stack this turn moved towards my capital although it can't reach it for another turn so I've sent a load of conscripts to guard the tiles so that I should be able to reconnect Hankow to my capital and will then use the surviving conscripts to hopefully establish a ring guarding the railline. Hopefully the northern city won't fall but I made the mistake of not trying to immediately replace the barracks so I could be vulnerable if he has a large amount of bombardment... 2 flaks this turn and 2 MGs.

Rcoutme
25-11-2004, 02:06
In spite of what the open thread says, I have one marine division online and many more coming really soon! I am depending on Commonwealth air cover and the Dutch Air Command consists of air lift capablility only (all those airstrips are for redeployment only, we have no fighters or bombers).

romeothemonk
25-11-2004, 16:04
The Jap Fleet is resting off of Saipan. I will attack Kwajalein or his fleet next turn. If his fleet comes one square closer, my land based fighters can go first and die gloriously for the empire. Oh wait wrong side. I would use my fighters to absorb his fighters, and then merrily bomb away. If he stays away, I take Kwalajein.

Justus II
26-11-2004, 02:20
I've posted the details of the invasion in the main thread, but it went smoothly. Saigon had 1 infantry and a flak, and another 3 flaks between the Oil and Airfield, as well as 2 zeros on the ground. I lost 2 fighters, and a Marine. I flew in reinforcements, mostly MGs and Marines. I hope to hold, I can't rush an airport until resistance ends (8 resistors), but I captured a couple POWs, so I can build another airfield if I need to if he destroys my new one.

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Justus II/2004112611938_WITP_0842_Saigon.jpg
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Naval Tactics (and Naval Academy) completed this turn, giving me the movement boost I needed to get my ships over in one move. I've tried to channel his counterattacks into two paths with more bombardment. I'm now researching Armored Tactics, due in 4. I've also started building some Light Tanks. They can't airlift, but I'll have one transport full ready to leave Australia in 2 turns. I'm also building up more marines at Rabaul, so I can launch a counterattack in that area in 2 turns, toward Truk, or to retake Sarmi and Manokwari. Not sure which is more critical at the moment, I'll wait to see how the US attack goes.

romeothemonk
26-11-2004, 05:31
I think that his only rubber supplies are the next two cities to the north. I would keep hammering on that front if I were you. I am sure that this will provoke some response from him. His fleet, the same shown in my screen shot is now 3 northeast of Saipan, and thus tied up with me. I encourage you to continue beating on his unprotected backside, as his ships face me and his troops face Dell. I think Rcoutme and Justus can do some magnificent hit and run action on him.

Dell19
26-11-2004, 19:38
Unfortunately I think I will almost certainly lose another city this turn since there was no way to reinforce it and he has enough workers to rebuild the road so that he can reuse his tanks so I had to cut my oil supply and my empire is now cut in two... On the plus side I now have more artillary and a British artillary piece as well :) My capital may also be vulnerable in a couple of turns but it should hopefully be still reinforceable...

Dell19
26-11-2004, 19:46
In case its not clear I now also need oil...

romeothemonk
26-11-2004, 22:16
I can get you more oil in 2 turns. Can anyone get it faster?

Justus II
26-11-2004, 23:13
I can't, I'm importing mine from the Dutch. And Saigon's harbor didn't survive, so I can't count on that one.

Dell19
27-11-2004, 00:43
Well its not something that I may need immediately...

Rcoutme
27-11-2004, 03:11
I have lots and will send immediately. BTW, Sarmi is a source of 2 rubber (whether or not it can be shipped is another question entirely...) so that may be a needed attack.

Rcoutme
28-11-2004, 06:13
Dang it...I forgot the oil...sorry Dell...umm send me your map and I will remember, ok? Anyways... the bad guys bombed my transport and destroyer in my port so I could not make any invasions this turn. I will have lots of Fighter-bombers coming in very soon, along with a whole bunch of marines. The Japs landed at least:
3 artillery, 1 flak, 1 marine, 2 nips (all regular) on New Guinea on the hills. There was a vet paratrooper in the city, but since he could not have taken it, there must also be a marine in there. I am evacuating and will destroy the airstrip, if I get time.

Justus II
28-11-2004, 06:19
Those are the forces near Sarmi? Or Manokwari, or both. The fleet I saw at Sarmi had 5 DDs, but no transports, so he has to have landed more troops from a transport somewhere. If they are all reg's, I may be better off fighting overland from Port Moresby, I have several vet Anzacs there, and could land my transport full of tanks there more quickly then shipping them to Saigon.

Rcoutme
28-11-2004, 07:51
Those units are close to Sarmi, in fact, they will have a hell of a time getting to Manokwari unless by transport since I destroyed the roads...
I am not sure if the Artillery can get to Sarmi due to the jungle, btw.

romeothemonk
28-11-2004, 21:10
I took down his fleet and took Kwajalein. It still has an airfield, and I flew new planes and troops in to reinforce it. If he doesn't attack my fleet this turn, (he now only has 3 carriers that can hit it, his other ships can't) I will have four carriers plus 6 land based planes to hit him. I will also keep bringing up the Island hopping campaign. It will probably be about 2 turns I can give oil. I didn't have any uranium hooked up, ARRGHH. I now have battlefield medicine. It looks like Manhatten in 4.

Justus II
30-11-2004, 06:11
Mostly a positioning turn. I've advanced out of the Saigon beachhead, with some ANZAC/Marines/MGs to threaten Pnom Phen. Bombardment cut off his Ivory (I think it's his only source). I am keeping an eye on Khudat, I don't want to distract my support for the Saigon landing, but if he tries to build a road to the vacant oil, so he can build a colony, I may have to retake it.

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Justus II/2004113051031_WITP_0942_Saigon.jpg
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In New Guinea, I'm set to invade Sarmi next turn, with marines and a couple light tanks, as well as air and naval support. If China can hold a couple more turns, I think we will have him on the defensive.

Dell19
30-11-2004, 18:50
I'm struggling quite a bit at the moment. All my southern cities are now in range from an offensive and its difficult to guard every city whilst also trying to keep the road network in existance. My northern two cities are reasonably well defended and would hopefully be harder to take but my capital isn't as strong as would have hoped. At least I didn't lose another city last turn although in some respects I would have rather kept the artillary stack and lost the city as I could have moved my artillary around for a better defence of my capital.

I also need iron if someone has it (I think). At least some infantry promoted this turn so potentially I have some reinforcements for any cities that survive. He is sending a stack from the north towards my capital which may mean that he plans to attack in two turns.

Rcoutme
01-12-2004, 04:13
Where is all that wonderful Commonwealth aircover? Where are those Commonwealth ships? Where the hell is the US Navy? Where is that great interest I was promised for my loans to the US?

Guys...he took a significant city!!!

I am sitting here with my butt hanging out. I have marines waiting in ships to attack! Now I am wondering if attacking is such a good idea.

Justus II
01-12-2004, 05:05
quote:Originally posted by Rcoutme

Where is all that wonderful Commonwealth aircover? Where are those Commonwealth ships? Where the hell is the US Navy? Where is that great interest I was promised for my loans to the US?

Guys...he took a significant city!!!

I am sitting here with my butt hanging out. I have marines waiting in ships to attack! Now I am wondering if attacking is such a good idea.


What were you expecting for air cover? As far as I know, planes on air superiority will not intercept enemy aircraft attacking another player's units, even locked allies. And I have no air bases within range of Tenate anyway? My aircraft are focused at Sibu and Saigon, and building up at Port Moresby/Rabaul to retake Sarmi and Manokwari. My navy is split into the same two areas, one group supporting the Saigon landing, the other at Rabaul ready to assault Sarmi.

I'm sorry about Tenate, but I have no real way of protecting it, and everything we have discussed in our strategy thread thus far has focused on denying him oil and rubber. He has access to multiple rubber sources, but we have so far been pretty effective at denying his oil, and that's been my focus so far. I know Tenate was productive, but it has no resources, and I hadn't heard any mention of it being a priority. [confused]

I'm not trying to sound flippant, I'm quite serious. If you need help in the east indies islands, then we need to come up with a plan to do so, but I'm not sure how to get there from here. The best I can offer is to come through Sarmi-Manokwari and retake the cities he's taken, and gift them back to you. If I try to sail directly into the indies, I will be a sitting duck, if I don't take bases along the way. Same for China, to an extent, I have no way to reach their front lines, the best I can do is attack where I can reach, and hope to deny him the oil, and tie up forces.

If you have the marines to attack, then try to retake those cities, or attack his bases (I thought from your earlier posts, you were planning on landing at Puerto Princess). If you want to land at a specific target, that's within range, and want some naval/air support, let me know and I'd be glad to try to bombard it in my turn, but we need to coordinate the target a turn or two in advance to make sure I have forces in range.

romeothemonk
01-12-2004, 06:09
The U.S. fleet is at Kwajalein. That has kind of been the purpose of the last couple of posts of mine. The U.S. gave you your money back with a 10% interest rate in 1 month. I can give you ~50 gold next turn, but I am running on a pretty tight edge to keep research up. I am looking for an oppurtunity to really hurt him, and island hopping towards his core, and sinking his navy, destroying his planes. Due to your planning, he cannot build new planes, new carriers, or even new tanks. He is stuck with Nip infantry, Artillary and Marines, and his starting forces.
I can vector my fleet down towards you if that will help. Instead of going to Saipan, I can cut down to New Guinea. I would like to know from the others if that is a good idea or not. I guess it all depends on if I can engage his fleet this turn. As far as where my fleet ends up, I really don't care as long as I can reinforce my marines.

Rcoutme
01-12-2004, 06:31
Ok...this is the situation: I can hit Kudat this turn coming (I have lots of marines)! I have no air cover, although I should have some, provided he does not take the cities that will produce those air units. My weakest cities are actually my capital, since it only has 3 ground units (albeit fairly good ones) and the one w/o the airport on that island south of Borneo (although I sent some extra infantry to help guard it).
I suspect that he will have a hard time keeping Tenate happy...that is the good news. Tenate did not have an airport...that is the better news.
I know that he hit Tenate with more than one marine...that is the bad news.
Commonwealth...go ahead with your planned attack route. I will head to the Phillippines and maybe our thrust will make him rethink his strategy when he notices that his own invasion forces are being cut off.
I can hit all over the place...the problem that I will run into is that I can not garrison...we are a small country. The Royal Dutch Marines are going to be a Big Bad Mean group, but they are for attacks!
I will need to gift the cities to somebody eventually...any takers?
Meanwhile, I had to build some fighter/bombers so that I could start finding out what I am facing and start pounding back at the attacks coming south of the Phillippines.
US: How long until we get to see mushroom clouds?

Justus II
01-12-2004, 07:11
On Khudat, just make sure you have enough for the kill, last turn he had a vet tank showing, and at least one zero, I don't know what else, but I've seen infantry there as well, and it has walls. I had planned on retaking it myself, but I put my emphasis on reinforcing Saigon first. I can retake it in a turn or two, or I can support your landing, let me know either way. I have a transport full of lt tanks headed that way, should be near Singapore in 3 turns, once they unload in Saigon, I can really push inland. I have a few more cities coming on line that will be able to build ANZACs every 2-3 turns (they were my early worker farms), so I can ship some garrisons over if needed in a few turns. The problem will be getting them in position, but we can arrange that. I'd prefer returning cities to the original owner when possible, but obviously only if they can be secured.

Rcoutme
01-12-2004, 07:18
Ok. I will hit either one that you find is attackable with 4 to 5 marines. Since you go first, you tell me. My troops are in Ketapang...so can only reach Kudat. If you think Kudat can not be retaken, then let me know and I will call off that invasion and head towards Tenate and the region the Japanese are currently attacking. If you can hit Kudat with marines this turn (and fail to actually secure the city) but leave the route open for me (remember...I can only move 6) then I should be able to attack. One caution! I don't remember if I used the extra movement capacity of 'end of turn' ability to get the transport to Kudat. So if you are uncertain...call it off and wait 1 turn.

yndy
01-12-2004, 11:13
Coordination problems between Allies? It seems like a problem common to WW2.

Nice game so far, you've made me replay the War in Pacific Campaign myself (on Sid) and I won for Japan, but the way you are progressing, you seem to hold him very well.

Dell19
01-12-2004, 19:04
With two armies used to take another of my cities I would suggest some sort of offensive this turn... Basically I now have two reasonably defended cities in the north but my remaining cities in the south could easily fall in the following turns...

romeothemonk
01-12-2004, 20:25
I engaged his fleet this turn but he didn't appear to have any planes on his carriers. I sunk 2 BB's Redlined a bunch and am continuing with my island hopping. Nukes will have to wait for a few turns yet. As I posted earlier, I lacked uranium. I consider knowing where Uranium is and prehooking it to be cheating. Amazing for how many times I have played this scenario that I never got to nukes before, and thus really don't know where Uranium was anyway. I am hooking it up and have another prebuild going. Truk should fall next turn, then I will wheel south to the philipines and or Dutch territory. I will gift back Allied cities as soon as I can. He can see my sub in the screenie anyway, but I thought it was worth showing how it is going.

Justus II
01-12-2004, 20:33
quote:Originally posted by Dell19

With two armies used to take another of my cities I would suggest some sort of offensive this turn... Basically I now have two reasonably defended cities in the north but my remaining cities in the south could easily fall in the following turns...


Since his attacks don't mention anything against my forces, I should still have a stack of Marines/Infantry ready to take Pnom Penh this turn. With infantry, it will be slow going, but I will keep the pressure on. My first shipment of tanks will be in the area within 3 or so turns. I will also be attacking at Sarmi. I'm not sure how much that will help, if he is so focused on China that he isn't diverting anything south, but I'm doing what I can. Without being able to look at a map here at work, what does the fall of Hankow do to your remaining oil source? I think you have one near one of the southern cities, right? Make sure to pillage that tile to delay his ability to hook it up, and defend as long as you can.

Dell19
01-12-2004, 20:40
I had already cut my oil source...

Dell19
01-12-2004, 20:40
I had already cut my oil source...

romeothemonk
01-12-2004, 23:53
I have no extra iron, but I sent wines to Dell, and 50 gold to Rcoutme. If you still need oil or Iron I can make a colony in a turn and then ship you the results. I believe that Justus has something like 5 iron sources in Australia. I have just played the single player sceanrio again as the commonwealth and noticed that a lot of buildings could be sold off. I have already sold off all of my excess buildings for war funds, i.e. courthouse in capitol, civil defense in secure areas. This is something to consider.
Like I posted Earlier, Truk should fall next turn, then I can continue into the Phillipines, head south to Borneo area, or north to Japan proper. Justus and rcoutme should tell me where I should go. I am especially looking for portions of his fleet without fighter cover as heavy bombers almost always take 2-3 hitpoints from ships, allowing quick sinking of DD's and Transports.

Dell19
02-12-2004, 00:17
Those buildings do act as buildings that could potentially be destroyed by a successful bombardment... I probably don't need iron any more...

Justus II
02-12-2004, 00:23
Yes, the starting buildings for the Commonwealth were very crazy, there were at least 4-5 cities with coal plants, but no factories, cities with factories but no barracks, etc. I sold off most of the unnecessary buildings the first turn, and rushed factories in a couple of the coal plant cities with good production potential. I do have excess Iron, so I will be glad to ship that off, I just don't have excess oil.

As for next targets, if you take Truk, I should have a free hand in retaking New Guinea, I would focus on helping the Dutch reclaim their other islands, or grabbing the bases in the Phillipines. I don't remember the range on nukes in this scenario, but I think the top priority ought to be getting a base in range of his home islands, nuking his core cities should bring his production to a grinding halt.

I will be focused on trying to push in from Saigon to somehow threaten his forces in China.

Justus II
02-12-2004, 06:25
In addition to the attacks listed in the main thread, I've also moved some troops into the mountains of Borneo to strike at the oil site next to Sangkoleraing. I can also hit him with Marines from the newly retaken Kudat, if needed. The Dutch should do whatever they can to kill that wounded marine on the oil, though, and pillage the road this turn, if possible. Sangkoleraing doesn't have a harbor/airport, so it's not connected yet, but if he rushed one (depends on resistance) it could be connected next turn, and we don't want that!

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Justus II/200412252327_WITP_CW_1042.jpg
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I've also taken Sarmi, and should be able to retake Manokwari next turn, I didn't even need all my marines.

I'm more concerned at Pnom Penh, if he keeps drafting and stuffing it with conscripts, it will take a long time to get through. I do have one transport of tanks on the way. I may also need to load the marines back up from Kudat and start hopping along the coast toward Hong Kong, but that will expose me to whatever fleet he has left.

I sent wine to the Dutch, and wine and 200 gold to China, but they don't appear to need iron.

romeothemonk
02-12-2004, 07:00
Good work Justus. On my turn we were down 22,000 to ~10,500. If we can stop him from taking cities, i.e. force him to defend, our combined might will wear him down quite quickly. If the seige in the south goes on for another turn, Bomb his RR. Otherwise he might wheel all his forces from China for a turn and surprise you. It is definitely looking up now.

Justus II
02-12-2004, 07:08
The railroad shown only leads to Bangkok. The problem is the rail line to Hue, he can use it and then the roads to reach me, and I can't bombard far enough north to cut it easily, I'll have to take 2-3 tiles out. At this point, I'd almost prefer he send everything at me, I can easily replace everything there, and it would give China a breather. But otherwise, I'll just have to work my way up. Sorry I didn't check the VP totals on my turn.

Rcoutme
03-12-2004, 14:57
I have a bunch of marines now waiting in Bandjermasin (if he does not sink the transport). I have spotted much of the source of my troubles. He has a huge battle fleet that has, no doubt, been pummelling my forces to pieces. I personally consider this to be an exploit, since I would have know that had I been able to watch the fight...

Anyways...the following are in between Menado and Sangkoelirang: BB Harung (3/3), BB Kongo (3/5), CA Chokai (4/4), CA Kumano (4/4), CA Kumano (4/4), CA Mogami (3/3), DD Akizuki (3/3), DD Yugure (3/3), DD Yuzuki (4/4)

I do not know if he has any ships inside the cities he has taken. He has aparently airlifted some units to the airstrip that he captured near Donggala. I blew up the roads on the spices leading to Menado, so if he was planning to use his Lt Tanks to attack Menado, he will have to wait a turn.

Meanwhile, I have closed in with the Commonwealth, on the city of Sangkoeliriang. Unfortunately...the walls survived. That may be a tough city to take back.

I have sent oil to the Chinese (whether or not the Chinese will ever get to use any of it is another question entirely...)

The loss of spices and wine hurt me more than I expected...he picked the right cities to attack...my people are now not terribly happy...I may have to start playing with my luxury slider...

@Commonwealth...I have one conscript infantry on New Guinea at that airstrip near your tank...let me know if you want him anywhere. I can send him to garrison a city, stay at the airstrip or jump him to one of my other sites.

Justus II
03-12-2004, 15:54
I sent you wines on my turn, did you get them? I will try to send spices if I have some of those as well. As for the conscript, you could send him to re-garrison Sarmi, if you wish, and I will gift it back to you. The Tank is more of a back-up/diversion for him, I plan on retaking Manokwari with Marines next turn, unless something unexpected happens.

As for the fleet, it will probably be 2 turns before I can get my fleets into position, but with the US hitting his carrier fleet, I can probably converge my squadrons from New Guinea and Borneo into that area and pound him. This turn, my air focus will be Sangkoelriang. But the turn after, if we can trap his fleet in the area, I should be able to pound him with air and naval forces.

Rcoutme
03-12-2004, 16:03
I got the wine...fortunately...once the first city went into disorder...I went in and switched all the others just in case. I will hit either Sangkoeliriang or Donggala with my 5 marines so long as I still have my transport and depending on your successes.

Rcoutme
04-12-2004, 13:32
Believe it or not...the Japanese turn is great news! The Japanese are no longer advancing significantly in China! I need to know whether to go for Sangkoelirang or Donggala. Justus...I am sort of counting on you to let me know about that sort of...if you can give me some sort of idea...I believe I have 5 marines (4 vets) waiting to hit the Japs hard!

This should be the month that the Japanese start feeling the sting harder than we feel it! This should be our real turning point. So let's go get him and never look back!

romeothemonk
04-12-2004, 16:04
Crappy news here. I lost 2 Marines, and couldnt take Truk this turn. His fleet has dissappeared. Manhatten in 4. I have a huge fleet sitting outside Truk this turn. Kwajalein is still resisting so I can't replace the transport he sunk. I had that transport covered I thought, but I must have told it to move to or something totally retarded like that.

Justus II
05-12-2004, 05:20
Well, I may have over-extended myself in a couple spots, but I tried to push him as hard as I could this turn. The key was finding Manokwari so lightly defended, when my first bombardment brought up a flak for the second defender, so my tank could take the town. That let me spring the Marines on Tenate, catching (at least) a DD, CA, and Bomber in port.

On Borneo, I was able to retake the oil, but he's already got a road on the tile. Sangk. doesn't appear to have a harbor yet, though, so if we can take it this turn or next, we'll be OK. I decided to re-route my transport of tanks up there instead of Saigon, so they are on the oil.
@Dutch: I spotted 3 paras on the airfield S of Dongala. I would make that your top priority for your marines (otherwise, they will airdrop onto your other oilfields, or somewhere else we might not be prepared for. I'd say kill them on the ground, and without oil, he can't replace them! If you have enough forces to take Sangko this turn too, fine, but otherwise wait until next turn, my 4 tanks (and a full turn of Fighter/bombers) should be able to soften it up better.

In Indochina, I've shown the location of most of his forces that I've seen. The stack in the south is down to 3 wounded infantry, and my 2 artillery. But I can see big stacks forming up behind, and he's moved 4 bombers down, and at least one tank army into Hue, so I expect a major counter-attack to try and retake Saigon soon. At least it should give China some breathing room. I cut the road/rail just south of Hanoi, the one spot where it narrowed to one tile.

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Justus II/200412541351_WITP_CW_1142.jpg
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I'm pretty exposed at Tenate (3 marines and an MG battalion), and Manokwari (2 tanks). I even had to leave Sarmi empty except for a couple planes, but he doesn't have any ships in range (that I can see with my sub) to hit it. I'm kind of gambling that by rolling up behind him, he won't be able to strike back as quick. My big risk is transports, I have 3 that are sitting just offshore at the site of my attacks, and a couple more parked in recently taken towns, if I lose several of those it could strand some of my marines. That's why I may need to rush some next turn. But I figured if I can catch him off-guard and retake the initiative, it'll be worth it. Especially killing his paras and marines, they are harder for him to replace.

I will have Armored Tactics next turn (Med. Tanks), and will send it to China ASAP. Did the Dutch or someone send them oil? I have a couple cities ready to switch to Med. tanks, but since I have to ship them (no airlift), it'll be a few turns before they get into action. My next research project will probably be airborne warfare, since paratroops will come in handy as we go on the offensive. Jet engines is expensive, and I'm pretty happy with fighter-bombers right now.

romeothemonk
05-12-2004, 06:13
I will have jet engines in 3 turns. I think that fighter bombers are better than jet fighters at everything but air superiority, so There is no real need to build any. I might put 1-2 on my carriers for the heck of it to replace f4's. His air force has really taken a pounding and should be pretty close to destroyed at this point anyway. I know I have shot down/destroyed at least 6 planes, and then I sunk a carrier with an unknown # of planes on it, (prolly 3 or less) but he should be starting to run out of fleet and planes very shortly.

Rcoutme
05-12-2004, 09:39
I sent China oil. I will hit the airfield that has the para's, but remember, they have good defense. I don't promise a whole lot. Meanwhile, I may be able to scrape up some bombing from my own fleet...

Rcoutme
05-12-2004, 09:43
Now that I am thinking on it...might it not be better to let him try a drop? Every source of oil that I have is guarded. If he drops blindly, he's dead automatically. If he drops, he does not get an attack on the same turn, and his paratroopers have a lousy attack value anyways...just something to think about.

Justus II
05-12-2004, 11:44
It's up to you, I didn't know the oil spots were guarded. If you feel safe from the drops, then by all means try to retake Sangko. instead.

Dell19
05-12-2004, 12:42
As requested:

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Dell19/2004125114151_Pacificscore.JPG
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Rcoutme
05-12-2004, 14:51
The current vps are Japan: 24255, Allies: 13440 (after the taking of Donggala)

I chose to take the city since bombing showed that the city was lightly defended. All oil is guarded. All my cities are also guarded. That does not mean he can't surprize me somewhere...but it would at least be one turn delayed and we would have a turn to move units in for a counter-move.

romeothemonk
07-12-2004, 04:13
A quick update. I am ~half done with my turn, and have captured Truk. It had a civil Defense thus increasing the difficulty factor a little bit. I had to go back to work in the middle of my turn, and thus have only captured Truk, but have also started to look for his fleet. Where again should I look? I have many Heavy bombers that would like to chop him down a little. I should get to Saipan in 2-3 turns.

Justus II
07-12-2004, 04:52
Well, the last spotted position is in the screenshot above, 2W of Davao. Based on his battle reports (at least 6 targets hit by naval artillery between Sangko. and Dongala) he must have moved south from there. His carrier fleet (that you had damaged before) fled Truk a couple turns ago, I'd guess toward either Guam or Palau. He did hit Tenate with 6 bombers or F/Bs, so he may have them at Palau, or at least moved the air wings there. Hope that helps!

romeothemonk
07-12-2004, 06:39
I took out 2 of his planes that were bothering rcoutme, including an elite fighter bomber. If you have any idea where his planes are based at, please let me know so I can bomb the snot out of them next time. Manhatten in 3.

Justus II
07-12-2004, 20:35
Well, after pushing hard last turn, this turn I had to pull back and heal. Near Saigon, I've pulled everyone into the city, he's shelling the airfield with 8-10 artillery, that are out of range of my naval guns. Now, he'll have to approach and expose himself to hit me, and I can heal the 12-15 wounded units I have. I did bomb another rail route.

His surface fleet is blockading the straits NE of Borneo, see the open thread for my bombing results, focused on the NE stack. That has a BB and 4 DDs in it, all but one damaged. The other stack has a BB, 2 CA, and 3 DDs, only the BB is damaged. I REALLY wish either me or the Dutch had been able to take out Sangko last turn, as he rushed a harbor, and had oil last turn. I've pillaged the oil this turn, but whatever he was able to swap or start last turn will get built. [cry] I pulled my tanks into my territory to heal, from there they can hit the oil again or the town, so he'll have to split his defenders if he wants to reconnect the oil. Another couple tanks are on the way.

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Justus II/200412719348_CW_Dec42.jpg
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I bombarded and bombed Palau, but my marines are too banged up to attack this turn. I should be able to hit it again next turn, hopefully in coordination with the US. I saw no aircraft (or ships) in my bombing runs there, they may have moved to Davao or Saipan.

I did complete Armored Tactics, and sent it around. I'm researching Airborne, but I have it turned down to 10%, as I need to rush some things next turn. I will still probably get it in 4 turns once I turn research back up.

Rcoutme
08-12-2004, 19:18
Sorry about Sangko, but it had walls and Donggala did not. Meanwhile, you had mentioned the marines, so I wanted to intimidate him. Meanwhile...if he sank my destroyer and transport, I will have to replace them before my marines make another landing...

I am hesitant to move any ships towards Donggala until we are sure the ships won't meet the same fate as the last ones in Donggala harbor...

Rcoutme
08-12-2004, 19:47
The good news is that I do have a transport. The bad news is that the fleet hanging around the Phillippines is more than enough to keep my transport far away from action. I will let my marines heal next turn and then, if the fleet gets chased away, try moving the trasport to Donggala.

romeothemonk
09-12-2004, 23:23
Alright guys, good news from Me. I sunk 2 carriers and a DD and an unknown # of planes. My Marines will attack guam in 2-3 turns, I get nukes in 2 and Jet fighters in 1.
Useful info for you guys.
His BB fleet is one space to the right of peurto princess. His last carrier is with 2 DD's and 2 CA's north of Saipan and apparently headed for hawaii. (Picket subs, oh yeah) He has 2 zeroes at the airfield on Davao, and 2 nips. I took 2 hps of one of them. I softened Palau a little bit, it has 1 marine and 2 MG's, Justus was thinking about taking it. He has Marines showing in Davao? or was it peurto princess? I forget. He might have a transport there.
I love recon ability of my f4f's.

Justus II
11-12-2004, 05:32
Unfortunately, I wasn't as well positioned to follow up as I hoped. His bombardment has left me with all marines damaged, as well as most of my DDs and transports. I bombarded Palau anyway, thinking I would chance it if it seemed lightly defended, but after 5 cruisers and 5 F/Bs hit it, I saw at least 2 MGs, a marine, and an infantry, and none of those redlined. So, I am healing again this turn, and moved another tranport into position. I still only have 4 Marines in the area, but if I have to I could land some tanks and Anzacs on the spot of land adjacent to the city also, so it may take 2 turns.

I hit his surface fleet (as you can see in the battle report). He hit my marines in Kudat again, so I've moved them to Saigon. In fact, I have built up a big force in Saigon, and my plan is to attack at Hue in 2 turns, from land and sea. I should have 8 marines to hit from the sea, and 5-6 tanks to follow up over land.

I can't really take Sangko right now, my tanks need to heal, and I'd rather use them in Indochina anyway. I will try to keep pressure on the oil tile, until the Dutch are ready to retake it. Then, we can coordinate and I will hit it with an all-out bomber offensive the turn you are ready to land.

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Justus II/200412114308_CW_0143.jpg
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Also, I've noticed a lot of spy reports from Japan, so I am building the Intel Agency (will complete next turn) and try to steal plans, it will be much easier if we can see where all his units are at, especially when it comes to my offensive in Indochina. So, I'm leaving research turned down and saving some cash. I sent 200g to China again this turn, but I may not be able to do so every turn.

Dell19
11-12-2004, 11:50
He used two armies to take my city although those armies lost 1 hitpoint between them

Rcoutme
11-12-2004, 20:45
I have lots of marines...problem mostly is transports... I am getting those online. I also have lots of infantry. I can occupy Sarmi next turn if you give it back...that can free some units. I have built lots of airstrips, so I can airlift to whereever I have those...

Rcoutme
12-12-2004, 15:17
Is it just me or are his reports looking like he has completely fizzled out in China and about fizzled out elsewhere?

romeothemonk
12-12-2004, 15:50
He is about out of steam. His only real offense is his armies. We must get those away from Dell. I will try to kill more fleet this turn.

romeothemonk
12-12-2004, 16:10
Palau is ready to be hit by Marines. We should really start hitting his airfields. Can we hit those soon? I sent Rcoutme a 300 gold bonus, and I have researched everything but Airborne. I can gift a lot of gold for quite some time. His airfields are where he is keeping his planes to keep them away from me. Mostly they are covered by 2-3 defenders, usually regs or consripts, and we should be able to knock out a few of his more annoying planes.
Manhatten builds next turn, and I should retake guam next turn as well.

Rcoutme
12-12-2004, 16:35
One of the dangers of keeping aircraft on airfields is that airfields can be wiped out by ships (although not if their are troops on them, unfortunately). But...airfields are much easier to assault...on the good side...

Justus II
13-12-2004, 04:05
Why didn't I think of this earlier? [wallbash]

Brisbane completed the intelligence agency, and we successfully planted a spy against Japan. I spent some money, so here's what the Army jokingly refers to an Intel Dump:

Overall
He's not gassed yet! The lack of oil is taking a toll, and limiting his offensive forces, but he's been drafting like crazy. Here's the stats:

[u]Army</u>
22 Workers
95 Nip Infantry [crazyeye]
6 Marines
5 Paratroops
5 MG Battalions
1 Combat Engineer
11 Light Tanks
12 Artillery
?? Flaks? (Missing from my notes)
2 Armies

[u]Navy</u>
4 Carriers
2 Battleships (making progress here)
6 Cruisers
11 Destroyers
7 Transports
6 Subs

[u]Air Force</u>
14 Zeros
7 Bombers
3 Fighter/bombers
2 Kamakazi's (Haven't seen these used yet, have we?)

Didn't try to steal plans (5000g), but I did pay to investigate some cities of interest (ranges 34-100g each):

[u]Hue</u>
3 Lt Tank Army
4 Inf, Flak
4 Artillery
Barracks, Civil Defense

[u]Palau</u>
2 MG Battalions
3 Infantry
2 Flak

[u]Sangko.</u> A TON!
3 Paratroops
3 Marines
1 MG Battalion
2 Lt. Tank
3 Artillery
1 Zero
1 Fighter/Bomber
2 Bombers
2 Transports

If we could hit THAT with a nuke next turn, that might even be a better payoff. (I know the Dutch may not like the idea of nuking their cities, though...)

Realistically, I think we'll need nukes to make any serious progress, as all three of those towns have 7+ defenders, and I don't have enough marines to make an attempt. I have at least 4 that could hit Palau next turn, and am flying 4 more in next turn (I rushed an airport at Tenate), but it will be the turn after before they could land. Same at Hue, although I'll have some tanks to back it up as well. BTW, he's gotten smarter about his rail net:

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Justus II/200412133130_WITP RRCover.jpg
136.51KB

He's using his conscripts to cover every tile, so I can't bomb them any more. I could use marines to land, but then he could counterattack immediately and push me back into the sea.

I did give Sarmi back to the Dutch, but I'll need the other two as bases until I can take Palau. I don't remember the range of nukes in this one, how soon before you'll have some that can hit these targets? That will determine where I send my new marines. :D

romeothemonk
13-12-2004, 05:54
Hmm. I will need a base to launch my nukes from. I suggest Justus save all his money and steal techs from me to build his own nukes. I do not think nukes are airliftable, so Closer to the action might help.
Hit Sangko with planes, it will kill his planes and transports first. He has 3 zeroes at the airbase on Davao, 1 bomber by Manila, 1 Bomber by peurto princess. I usually lead with my crappy fighters to draw out his air cover, and then bomb with the big hitters right afterword. I also have jet engines and gave to Justus. If I remember air combat correctly, Jet fighters beat zeros. If I bomb with a jet fighter, I should shoot down intercepting zero's more than 50% of the time.
Kamikazes are nasty, I will remember to keep my carriers away from his core. They have stealth attack, lethal bombard, up to 4 hits, but only a range of 4 I think.

Dell19
13-12-2004, 11:32
If he is only using one conscript then you can still destroy the road by redlining the unit and then destroying the road.

Justus II
13-12-2004, 15:49
quote:Originally posted by Dell19

If he is only using one conscript then you can still destroy the road by redlining the unit and then destroying the road.


I thought I've tried that once before, and once you get a redlined unit remaining, the tile cannot be bombarded. I'll check again next turn.

Rcoutme
13-12-2004, 16:09
In normal C3C you can bomb a road after redlining a unit, for some reason that does not work in this scenario...

I have the ability to hit Sangkoelirang with 5 marines next turn. I will have the ability to hit it again with more, I actually have 7 in the area. This is assuming, of course, that nothing untoward happens to my transport or destroyer.

Hit Sangkoelirang with everything you have. I will attack and then retreat the units to Donggala (right next door anyways). We will just have to keep hitting it until it falls.

romeothemonk
13-12-2004, 16:13
If I do not find his fleet this next turn, I will bomb the snot out of Sangko.

Rcoutme
13-12-2004, 16:16
Ok...good... What I have done is keep my tiny fleet out of Donggala, for the moment (hoping he does not look for it). it is within strike range to pick up the marines and attack, though.

Justus II
13-12-2004, 19:46
OK, let the US soften it up. Then I can bomb it from Sibu and Tenate and hit with the 4 Lt. Tanks on my turn, then your marines can follow up and hopefully take it out.

Rcoutme
13-12-2004, 20:04
Ok, that's a plan...I have 2 CA's, a DD and an artillery to help out as well. The troops outside of it can do nothing serious to help in the attack.

Justus II
17-12-2004, 05:58
I've listed all the combat results in the main thread. My spy was killed, so I had to replant him, and barely had the cash to investigate the cities I was interested in this turn. (Actually sold a temple in Kuala Lumpur to get the difference).

Apparently he abandoned Sangko and pulled all his troops back to Kudat. Sankgo had one wounded para left, I lost a tank but took it. Kudat has a para, 4 marines, and infantry, 6 arty, and another para and inf outside. He also had 3 transports and a damaged cruiser, but this was one case where I was glad all naval and air bombardment damage applies to ships before land units, as it ensured I could kill off all the transports.

Palau was a little tougher, as most of my bombardment went to destroy bombers on the ground that I would have destroyed anyway. But I did take it, with airport intact, so I've flown in another marine to replace my loss, and some infantry. All tanks are being redirected to the mainland, I will hopefully be launching an offensive in another turn or two.

When I replanted the spy, I took a list of his army again. Subracting what I killed on my turn, here's what he has left:

Army
3 ARMIES
9 Lt. Tanks
2 Cbt Engineers
1 MG Battalion
8 Marines
3 Paratroops
101 Infantry
12 Artillery
8 Flak

Navy
2 Carriers
1 Battleship
3 Cruisers
3 Destroyers
9 Subs
4 Transports

Air Force
10 Zeros
2 Bombers
2 F/Bombers
2 Kamakazis

So we are making headway. Especially with no oil, it's hard for him to replace the planes and ships. I will have Airborne Warfare next turn, then start on the Atomic techs.

romeothemonk
17-12-2004, 16:56
I know where 1 of his carriers, 2 of his cruisers and a slug of his planes are. They are going to be nuked next turn. The only safe place for him is to move to Saipan, only base within range, and then I can nuke the snot out of it, and bomb it for good measure. Thanks for the heads up on the subs. I will rush some DD's when I get the chance.
Do subs take oil? (Stuck at work and wondering).

Justus II
17-12-2004, 19:15
I'm at work too :( I'll check when I go home for lunch. IIRC, Subs do take oil, but destroyers do not, so we can expect a lot of those in the near term.

Rcoutme
17-12-2004, 23:49
I checked and the only moving unit vehicle that does not seem to need oil is a destroyer. My marines are recuperating in Donggala and I have transports coming in from the rear as well. Davao is in range as is Kudat, so I will wait for Justus to name the target. I can attack with 5 marines this turn or up to 11 next turn (depending on how many I can actually get to Donggala). I can take over some cities or move my infantry towards Kudat, whichever way the Commonwealth would like it, remember that the Japanese will not move in between our turns, so you can empty out a city and have me occupy in the same turn. So if you want to hand over Sangkoelirang (I don't need it, but thought you might want the tanks for other use), I can easily defend the place.

romeothemonk
18-12-2004, 03:52
Not much to report but what was on the main page. I have 3 more bombs ready next turn.
Here are some more good screenies for my Marine like friends.


http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/romeothemonk/2004121824940_Manila.jpg
95.91KB

Saipan will be bypassed or nuked, whichever is easier. Hehe


http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/romeothemonk/2004121825118_Saipan.jpg
94.71KB
I hope that Justus and rcoutme have very productive turns.

Justus II
18-12-2004, 06:41
See the main thread for most of the details. I may have attacked too early at Pnom Phen, he had 8 defenders, and my bombers couldn't redline enough of them, but China is down to one city and I had to try something. He is also busy building Radar Towers everywhere, and looks like he might be preparing to try something towards Kuala Lumpur. My biggest worry right now is him reconnecting the oil in China or finally getting Mandalay. He's building towers N and S of it, and I have no resources so I can only build flak and guerillas.

Dutch: You should be able to take Sango no problem, the top marine has 3hp, but the other 2 have 1 hp each, I bombed it pretty hard. Then maybe we can combine on Kudat next turn. If you have any planes, attack Kudat, he has a transport there, it would be sweet to sink it in port.

US: I'd definitely recommend nuking Saipan if he has that many units there, it's too hard massing that many marines at a time. After that, I can give you P.Princess or Manila (once I move out next turn) for a forward base.

China: I forgot to check on the map, does he have access to your old oil source? If so, we will be seeing more planes again soon. If not, he will definitely go for Mandalay.

I sent Airborne Warfare to everyone, he already has it so it's no problem. Atomic Theory is still a 4-turn tech, although with not a lot of cash to spare.

Oh, and I'm MAD about losing to the stupid sub, I saw it, and attacked without thinking, I had 3 aircraft in range, and several cruisers, but once my sub died I couldn't see the stupid thing anymore! [wallbash]

Here's the aftermath:

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Justus II/2004121854053_CW 0543 Davao.jpg
136.56*KB

EDIT: BTW, score is now 33,125 to 24,215, so at least we are narrowing the gap. Goal is 50,000, so we have some time, but we need to make more progress on the mainland I think.

Dell19
18-12-2004, 12:46
You might want to resend the save possibly to my gmail addess as well: dell19 AT gmail DOT com

Hotmail keeps on reporting Unknown virus scanner failure Virus Found, which usually means that it hasn't loaded correctly and I just need to click back and reload the page but this hasn't solved the problem. Btw this will be my last turn I believe.

Dell19
18-12-2004, 22:11
The final turn I believe. I can't see him deciding to not bother attacking when i only have one city left. Been an interesting game although I never expected to be so thoroughly attacked...

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Dell19/2004121821947_Chinacry.JPG
235.61KB

Rcoutme
18-12-2004, 23:21
I easily took Sangkoelirang, I have way more than enough to take Kudat! Concentrate elsewhere. I only have a few fighter/bombers and they are for fighter purposes only, so I did not try for the transport. I could not go for Kudat this turn as I would not have had enough mp's for the transports (one had to move from the rear, but is now in Donggala). I recommend dropping nukes below cities (on coastal squares) unless you expect that there are lots of units around the city, that way there will not be any pollution.

In the case of Southern Phillippines it worked out, since he did have lots of units around the city, but elsewhere, you may not want the pollution...your call.

romeothemonk
19-12-2004, 18:00
Pollution cleanup will give my guys something to do. Anyway we know that captured cities will not be productive, so I would just keep nuking the snot out of them and build airfileds, and carry on.

Dell19
19-12-2004, 18:41
Looking at the screenshot Japan should have oil soon since all he has to do is build a colony on the oil above Chengdu

Justus II
21-12-2004, 06:57
We are definitely going to have a hard slog ahead, without China. I expect to feel the full weight of his army on me in Indochina soon. I doubt I'll make much more progress on the mainland, I'm mostly hoping to cut off some of his luxuries in the area right now.

He's very short on Amphib assets (one marine, 2 paratroops, and 2 transports) but he's built a colony on China's oil so we can expect more soon.

I shifted a lot of bombers to Manila, it will be my forward base now. I'd recommend getting at least one nuke to P.Princess as soon as you can, and hit Hue. It's a well-defended city, lots of VP, and I have a lot of tanks that can follow up and take it if you nuke it. It will also cut off his southern luxury routes, if we can take it soon.

Long-term, we need to decide on a strategy to win this. VPs are 36,500 to 23,500 (gained about 1,500 on my turn). At least he can't take any more big Chinese cities. [crazyeye] If we can use nuke and grab to get several of his big cities, we can even it up. I am actually thinking we may want to withdraw from the mainland and focus on his island cities, maybe even drive straight at his core. It's easier for me to airlift marines to the front than sail tanks for ground combat. What do you think?

Here's the front. Dutch should be able to take Kudat easily, then we can secure our island regions and focus on the offensive.

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romeothemonk
21-12-2004, 07:49
I can get 4 nukes to PP next turn. If you two can secure the phillipines, and let me know where to nuke, I will make some serious noise. I would concentrate on Marines, but not forsake the mainland entirely. You may find it easier to drive some tanks to the fight.

Rcoutme
21-12-2004, 21:39
I checked the base game again and it looks like 50k is the objective (a good thing for us). I would definately concentrate island-wise. Nuke the continent to mess up army formations but otherwise just keep him at bay.

akots
21-12-2004, 23:47
quote:Originally posted by Rcoutme

I checked the base game again and it looks like 50k is the objective (a good thing for us...

How come? In the original scenario it is 40K iirc? I've played it on Emperor (as Japan) and won on turn 11. Took me about 4 hours total to finish. Looks like you guys are doing terrific job trying to survive with this one.

romeothemonk
22-12-2004, 00:02
I cannot really do anything but Nuke him repeadetly now. I lack ships, and it would take 4-5 turns to make new ones and get them to the front. Rushing new ships is very spendy, and I still have some resistors to quell.
I will gladly nuke the snot out of him every chance I get. Tell me where to nuke and I will deliver some fire, you guys can attack it, and cut all the rail lines around, and we just keep doing that. Hopefully I can get his armies with one good nuke, or multiple nukes if we need them.
Justus, try to starve all (or selected) of your mainland cities so that they are worth almost no VP if they get captured.

Justus II
22-12-2004, 00:11
Sounds like a plan, I would stick with the islands and coastal cities for now. If you move the nukes this turn, I will try to get marines positioned so that I can strike the turn after next. The problem with tanks is the same as your ships, I can't airlift them, and its 4-5 turns in transit. THose enroute will get thrown into the fray, but I'll probably switch all remainnig production to marines and/or paratroops.

romeothemonk
22-12-2004, 00:28
One thing to note is that we own the skies. We should take advantage of this by bombing him early and often. When he does get new planes, we should have more than him. I get my first new DD to the front next turn, and then I go sub hunting. I will try to keep him busy by letting him think I'm going for his homeland. If I can get to Iwo, (it would probably be 3-4 turns) I can nuke his capitol 2-3 times and thus cut all of his supplies.

Rcoutme
24-12-2004, 04:20
Nuking the capitol will not cut all supplies as any city that is hooked to his network would still get the stuff (he would only lose traded goods and he has none of those). I easily took Kudat and now have more marines than I know what to do with. I am &gt;6 squares from any target. I have very little protection for my transports, so if the Commonwealth want to name a target, I will head there. I have 8 marines in the vicinity of Kudat and some others just airlifted onto Borneo. I have some destroyers in the area, so they can pick up some more guys. I captured 6 artillery pieces, but have nowhere to use the buggers...

Justus II
30-12-2004, 06:57
I now have enough F/Bs (and Jets) in the area that I can start chewing up his infrastructure, hopefully. I didn't completely cut off his N-S route, but the main rail line is cut, he will have to use roads to get around it. And south of Hanoi is completely isolated. So I should only face conscripts next turn, and it will be harder for him to reinforce. I have a few tanks ready to hit Hue next turn. Probably not enough to take all 8 conscript defenders out, so I definitely would want it to glow a bit. [cool] Just AIM CAREFULLY! Don't taret the city, or my tanks will be slag heaps, hit just north of it and it should be perfect. The other ideal target would be Hong Kong, especially if he still has that tank army there. (You do have range 12, right?) 2-3 of the Marines at Aparri are fresh and could hit it next turn also. (Just giving my Chrismtas wish list!) [yeah]

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romeothemonk
30-12-2004, 07:16
I will investigate HK, and Hue. Then I will nuke somewhere where his stuff is located.

Rcoutme
30-12-2004, 08:50
I am thinking of heading to Bhuket...I can redeploy my marines and head there from Sumatra. The Bhuket, Rangoon route should be amphib attackable. What do you guys think?

romeothemonk
30-12-2004, 16:01
Sounds good to me. Just a reminder, I leave for a week this morning.

Rcoutme
30-12-2004, 23:02
Most of my marines are on their way, the others will follow next turn (after healing). I am building a couple of medium tanks as well, just in case and have relocated the small Royal Dutch Air Command to Northern Sumatra. I will not reach the city for about 3 turns.

romeothemonk
04-01-2005, 05:16
Hanoi has no defenders, he has riots everywhere. I nuked Canton, that had an army, and around Bangkok area which had ~25!! infantry around it.

Justus II
04-01-2005, 19:13
After all these turns of ground fighting, it was satisfying to finally see this:

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I used Wingate to form a Light Tank army, then later on I got another leader, Slim, who went back to Saigon to form a Medium Tank army. I had a city working on Battlefield Medicine, I will probably swap over to Mil. Academy now, both to rush armies and for the bonus.

Battle results are posted in the open thread. I just shipped a bunch of workers over, once I get some roads rebuilt, I should be able to push forward more rapidly. I have 5 marines (mostly elite) in Aparri, that will be healed and ready to rock next turn, so if the US is ready, try to hit Formosa, Hong Kong, or Huing… (whatever it is, the port east of Hanoi). I should be able to take Hanoi overland, it’s just a bit too far for marines to reach. I’ve shifted more of my airforce to Aparri and Hue, although the majority is still in Saigon.

We are finally making some progress on score, especially as his cities start to fall, on my turn we went from 26,700 to 29,145, while he is at 37,425. If we can gain 3000+ per turn, while he only gains about 1000, we can overtake him in time.

Rcoutme
05-01-2005, 01:02
My marines are ready to attack Bhuket next turn. Now I need one of my allies to tell me how many defenders are there...
My aerial reconnassaince says he only has conscripts, but how many?
I would rather not risk two or three boatloads of marines w/o some sort of assurance that he won't be drowning them...

Justus II
05-01-2005, 01:09
OK, I will make sure to check it out next turn. I will have plenty of cash, as my research cost on Atomic Theory suddenly dropped on my turn... (Japan may be getting nukes of her own).

Justus II
10-01-2005, 06:47
Kuingchow is cut off (I landed a para on the rail line, so he should'nt be able to easily evacuate), so that might be a good target for US Marines next turn, I think you can reach it from PP. Once I get my ANZACs caught up to my tanks, I can clear the remaining conscripts off the rails, but it's a slog right now, so I used my marines to leap along the coast and grab a couple VP towns. I have seen no sign of an air force or fleet for a while...

I got Atomic Theory, Fission in 4, but I will need Uranium when I get it. I did complete Military Academy, and Brisbane can build an army every 3 turns now. After the first, I will probably build Pentagon real quick (that would be my 3rd), so I can beef up the two already in position. At this rate, we may even overtake him by 40,000, or pretty soon thereafter.

romeothemonk
11-01-2005, 17:47
I bombed the Barracks at Kuingchow, but could not take the city. Too far away.
He popped a leader somewhere, and has him sitting somewhere. I couldn't find it as I spent all my gold investigating his homeland. I have my transport Near Saigon so I can hit kuingchow next turn.
I noticed that he has 3 carriers, and 3 cruisers left. He might be hiding his fleet somewhere for a big showdown, but I think my antics in Japan will stymie him for the short term.
I gave Rcoutme furs, and both of you world maps.
I am really trying to get into his head with my nukes and marines strat, you 2 just eat up southeast asia. Rangoon should fall easily this turn if rcoutme can hit it.

Justus II
12-01-2005, 05:02
Not much to report other than what was in the thread. Now that we've taken the lead in VPs, I think it's only a matter of a few turns, there's no way he can recapture cities faster than we can take them (unless he pulls out nukes of his own, and with Romeo scorching his core, I don't think that's likely). I've airlifted more troops and planes into Formosa, including a few paratroops, so I can at least add to the confusion by landing them in his homeland. :D

romeothemonk
13-01-2005, 18:31
I am 2 turns away from being able to use my transport full of marines, Justus moves up faster then I can. [cool]
I liket the idea of paratroopers all over the Jap mainland. He has 2 transports and 2 marines, so I doubt I will hold nagasaki. He cannot attack Iwo this turn, and I have 2 nukes ready to make his day again.
There is 1 HC by Nagasaki.

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Justus II
16-01-2005, 06:52
The Vps are telling the tale, we gained 4,000 on my turn alone, he is collapsing fast. He has pulled defenders from most cities, and with more forces pouring into the area, I don’t think he has much left. I have another full transport of marines in Foochow, and several paratroops in Formosa. I’ve been using paratroops to drop onto the cities after my marines capture them, to give better protection, and then I can move the marines on to the next target the next turn. I will have Fission in 2, but I don’t even know if the game will last long enough for me to use them!

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romeothemonk
16-01-2005, 07:29
He still has 2 armies, and he is keeping his MGL as an MGL, probably to rush an A-bomb. I would expect at least one vigorous counterattack.

Justus II
17-01-2005, 05:46
Well, if not for a stubborn pRNG, this one would be over. One more city, or a few units, and he's done. I doubt I'll see another turn, but I will get Fission next turn. I also just completed my first army from the Academy, but won't get to use it.

I spotted one army of his, it's an army of Combat Engineers, N of Hankow. Don't know about the other one. I also cut off his Oil supply, as far as I can see, he still has the colony, but I have taken control of the three adjacent roaded tiles by taking Chengdu.

Rcoutme
17-01-2005, 13:38
I could not make any attacks, due to the unrealistic Civ III trait that allies can not pass through allies. Looks like you Yanks will have to finish the job.