View Full Version : grs in Fab4 - finished

02-11-2004, 19:14
Fab4 game with Banzai, Matrix and RomeoTheMonk. Map by Kingreno who named me qrs :( You can read there about the setup http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2068.

The start
gave me some headace, because of the hut. I did not want to use the worker to pop it, neither did I want to do a farmers gambit not building a military unit till my borders expanded (especially since I would have to waste shields). So I conceded myself to build 2 warriors first; one to guard the worker and the second to pop in Rome once the borders expand.

This is what it looks in 3550BC.

The scoreboard tells me, that others deceided diffrent (if they had such a hut too). And I know my land looks a bit weired, but to mine the bg would have given me nothing. I fear I am in danger of getting crammed into a corner if there is someone near.

09-11-2004, 23:59
I got 2 barbs from the hut, of course. I lost one warrior, killing them. Sadly I did not even receive a promotion despite being milatiristic :(

13-11-2004, 14:12
I have met a Greek warrior in 3100BC and bought bronze working for warrior code, 2gpt and 8gold. Not the optimal opponent, because of the hoplites, but bronze working came in handy. I think Theo or William would have been easier to defeat, but at least it isn't Pacachuti.

24-12-2004, 01:00
By now I know the civs that roam my island. It is the Inca and Greek AI and Banzai's Iroquois. We already met and traded tech and shared research some turns ago. I am always a bit behind him in expansion - he is agricultural after all. He has horses in his territory and I have lots of iron as you can seen when I add the picture.


This is the minimap.


My plans? Well, stay friendly with Banzai, we both profit a lot from our friendship. There is an incense to the south which I want to grab and after that I will probably start backfilling my fertile lands to the north.

Banzai has proposed to attack the Greeks sometime, but we both need a reasonable army before that.

05-01-2005, 00:32
Pachacuti gave me the boot which teleported me though his lands and next to a goody hut. Since he helped me being first I really hope for a (improbable) tech or unit.


Stay tuned, I will tell you in 2 turns.

06-01-2005, 12:43
The hut gave 50 gold - not bad. Banzai and I continue to trade techs. He is doing Republic while I am working on currency right now. We also miss construction, mysticism, polytheism, monarchy, map making and literature. Hopefully the AI will do the lower path to monarchy. Since Banzai won the philo-race I guess we are in good shape tech-wise. Especially getting Republic fast should help us.

06-01-2005, 13:56
Interesting. Good thing to have an "ally" for tech trading this early, but this effort also increases chances that you ll both grow large, which makes war between the two of you inevitable I suppose.

14-01-2005, 01:18
That is the Roman empire in 1375BC.


Pisae is on incense, but KR made it very hard for me to connect all my cities, so I will have to road even more hills and mountains. I will found 3 more towns: one where the settler is and two more in my back (maybe a third if there is a bit more land or even a resource in the north). I see no good option on founding a city in the southern mountain block, better raze Pharsalos and settle nw of it on the hill later.

Military build up is next and then it Greece.

14-01-2005, 02:26
How is the Greek AI doing, possibly some nice wonder to grab?
From the looks of the map, it seems that you are in a good position for a war against them.
Also, do you consider telling Banzai about the attack on Greece, meaning you both attack 'em?

14-01-2005, 16:04
The Greek AI is doing quite bad. Alex is building the Pyramids and the SoZ, but he probably has no chance on both. I know from enstablishing an embassy in Cuzco that the Inca will complete the Pyramids in 5 turns. I can check Alex when I have money for another embassy - maybe in 2 or 3 turns.

I guess we will both attack them. It is quite important for me though, to get the biggest chunk of Greek land since cities in Incan lands will be close to worthless for me. No arrangement has be made yet.

21-01-2005, 03:14
Turn 75 (1125BC) - and a very important one.

The setup was that I had to trade what Banzai and I had researched for the AI techs. And it went quite well. More important was the proposal I wanted to make to him about dividing the Greek lands. It is probably the easiest to just add a copy of my mail here, since it is straightforward and I do not plan to break our agreement, nor do I think I take the bigger part of the cake with it. It just takes him to trust me in advance.

quote:Hi Sander,

I traded CoL, Horseback and Currency to Greece for Construction. Alex had no gold to add to the deal. After that I gave Construction, Currency and CoL to the Incas for Map Making, Mysticism and 55gold. That was the highest gold we could get; they still have 16 gold left. Alex wanted an arm and a leg for Construction, but Map Making was surprisingly cheap for a monopoly tech. I guess the 2nd hand value of Construction made it. We are now up Mysticism and Map Making on Alex and have tech parity with Pachacuti.

You will have the most valuable (in beakers) tech of the AA soon and we only miss Polytheism to enter the next age. I am quite sure the Inca are already researching it and maybe Alex switched to it too. So I will start Literature, due in 12 atm. Together with Republic it may buy us at least a part of a medieval tech. I sent you Currency, Construction and 50 gold accepted. I can send you Mysticism and Map Making, but I could keep it for a later trade. Just tell me if you want the techs now and I will send them next turn. I will need Republic immediately once when you get it. I keept my cities small and will revolt immediately, since I want to attack Greece as soon as possible and obviously I will get my GA then and I don't want that in Despotism. The same is probaly true for you - with all respect.

I used almost all my cash for an embassy in Athens - have a laugh:

Size 5, the only improvement is the SoZ, only 2 reg. hoplites. Athes makes +2fpt, 8spt, 11cpt and is running 100% science. It will complete the MoM in 18.

About the war with Greece (as soon as we can start it): Alex has 7 cities and it is improbable he will settle more, since he has to clear marsh or settle very tight, which the AI does not do often. At most he will found one SE of Pharsalos. I know that this is asking something in advance but:

I have no use for any Incan city and we will very probably attack them after Greece. I will surely help you conquering them and try to fish for a leader too. Ok...so far the easy part...now the more difficult one: I ask you for an agreement about who will get which parts of Greece and I ask for getting most of it for myself. The reason is obvious, but I know that you could use this territory too. Sadly I do not know all cities by name, but this is what I propose:

There is a Greek town far in the nw of Athens near the Incan border. This is next to a mountain and west of the mountain are bananas. I would like to draw a line from the bananas through the mountains 3 nw of Thermopylae to the coastal tile s, sw of Delphi so that Thermopylae and the city 5 se of it lie on your side and Athens, Delphi, Pharsalos, the dyes towns and the town near the bananas where I started this long journey are on my side and this will roughly serve as our border no matter how we relocate the Greek cities or where we found additional ones. In this plan Greece will be completely eliminated we can gift them to the middle ages before that if we really want that - they have no iron yet.

This is not only to secure me a fair share of our continet, but also to strengthen out alliance with a mutually agreed border.

I hope this proposal is agreeable to you. Please take your time to consider it, I spent some time to balance it at best I could see.


This is the border I describe by words, since we cannot trade maps yet.

Since I was doing some shots, I can add the relevant information about the Roman Empire in 1125BC.




Despite what they look like, I consider them excellent, regarding a) 4 agricultural opponents b) I am gaining on Matrix on Romeo since some turns.

25-01-2005, 13:04
Turn 81 (975BC): We now have all required AA techs + Republic and both revolted. I delayed it for one turn by accidently not trading techs to Banzai :(. In 1000BC he exchanged Republic for Polytheism with the Inca and we all 3 entered the MA. Greece still misses Mysticism, Poly and both goverments and has nothing to offer atm.

I drew 5 turns of anarchy; so quite what was expected. I will need no 1-turn-riots and still have no towns starving, since 2 luxes are connected and no town is above size 6. The Inca revolted with us.

25-01-2005, 13:14
Dit Banzai accept the allianceproposal and if so, will you invade the other island together?

25-01-2005, 13:40
Yep, he did accept it. Our next plans are to invade Greece and then the Incas. We could get the SoZ (Athens - me) and the Pyramids (Cuzco - Banzai). We did not talk about any further plans yet. If all goes well, I would like to invade the other continent with him, but as far as we know, we will need at least astronomy to get there.

06-02-2005, 13:13
510BC (turn 101): War with Greece will start next turn. I will gift them to the MA and add Republic and attack then.

my stack (in Pompeii):

my wall:

my Statue and my Mausoleum:

07-02-2005, 22:57
Ok lets have a look again before I do something stupid.





Looks doable.

Alex gets republic for all his 33 gold and he revolts immediately (and yes - I mean during my turn). Excuse me if this is common knowledge, but I was surprised when I saw that for the first time. I gift Alex to the middle ages, hoping he won't get Feudalism as Bazai will get that from the Incas - he gets engineering. Besides that his ACs will be able to reach me more easily that's very good news.

Talk to Alex for a third time (he is polite now) and declare war - he seems surprised :D.

07-02-2005, 22:57
I move in and pass the turn to Banzai - awaiting Alex' attack.


Sparta: 5 legions
Pharsalos: 4 legions
Mycenae: 4 legions
Athens: 5 legions, 1 archer, 6 catapults

07-02-2005, 22:57
Alex killed 1 legion and lost the AC from Pharsalos. 3 legions are wounded, two of them were promoted to elite.

I attack Sparta first - take it with The Great Wall, attack Pharsalos and Mycenae and easily raze them. The stack stays and kills 2 ACs (bombarded to red) and leaves the last redlined one, not to split itself. Reinforcement substitue garrisons and who in turn reinforce the attack force.


07-02-2005, 22:57
The last AC vanished. I guess it moved to Athens, as I do not think it impaled itself on a fully healed legion. Reinfocements substituted the garrisons which in return joined the attack force. If the catapults do their work I may attack Athens next turn, if not 2 more legions join the main stack the turn after.

Two new towns were founded for the razed ones in better locations. I took a risk and moved 6 legions to Sparta to quell resisters. Oh and Alex shows me he still has a single reg warrior as an attack force. It is 3e of my lookout warrior.


07-02-2005, 23:03
You ve taken Sparta already, no?

12-02-2005, 17:29
Some turns later in 310BC:


Yes, I have taken Athens and Delphi, got a great leader razing Thermopylae and rushed the Forbidden Palace with it. I am prebuilding for Leo's and will skip knights and aim for cavalry.

Banzai now has The Great Lighthouse and took the Pyramids from the Inca and is building Sun Tzu's atm.

12-02-2005, 20:59
Will this turn into a two vs 2 alliance?

Or a 2 vs 1 vs 1 alliance?

Athens with FP and MoM should be a happy productive spot :)

14-02-2005, 04:23
My 11th elite win gave me my 2nd MGL and though I so not know what to do with him right now, that is great news! :D

quote: Will this turn into a two vs 2 alliance?

Or a 2 vs 1 vs 1 alliance? I do not have the slightest idea. Romeo killed off the Byzantines, but Matrix...he still has his capital between 2 and 4 pop and while I can imagine he needs 6 turns in any way to get 20 food there - maybe saying to himself: "I can get that few shields even at small size" - he misses every opportunity to slot in a warrior or an improvement and most importantly a lot of uncorrupted commerce each turn. I have never seen a competitive player do such a thing [???]

The [charge]-men overtakes me in any aspect of the game and I guess I'll have to live with that. I do not know if he has a FP yet, but Athens will be a killer. It is size 2 but already has the FP, a granary and +5fpt and with the MoM I can let it grow like I like. I am currently building the HG in Antium, my 2nd best city till Athens will be bigger. I am quite sure that is not in Banzai's interest, but I need to pull the blanket a bit more to my side.

29-03-2005, 13:14
It is 280AD now. We all have contact with another and this is the minimap.
Diplo - none. There is probably no alliance between Matrix and Romeo, their tech advantage differs too much, maybe a non-agression pact.

Romeo had an RoP with the Dutch which he let run out some turns ago - guess we all know what that means.

Eastern alliance techs (Banzai also has Metallurgy, which I will get when I want it):

Romeo: down Astronomy, Chemistry and Economics and up Music Theory
Matrix: down Monarchy, Engineering and Theology
William: down Chemistry and Economics

me: SoZ, MoM, Wall, Leo's and prebuilds for Newton's (quite sure) and Bach's (will be close)
Banzai: Pyramids, Lighthouse, SunTzu, Copernikus and a prebuild for Smiths
Romeo: KT and building Sistine's (he probably has many temples!?)
Dutch: HG, Colossus, Oracle, ToA and buildings Sistine's too
Matrix: none


05-04-2005, 16:43
Matrix has declared war on the Dutch and a few turns later Romeo joined. They have formed a formal ingame MA vs. the Dutch - whatever this is for between 2 humans!? Matrix is having a hard time against the Dutch as he wrote in the open thread - AFAIK he has only taken one city yet.

In between Romeo, Banzai, the Dutch and my Romans are chasing for the 600 shield wonders. Romeo and The Dutch have been building the Sistine Chapel for a long time (and Romeo recently switched his one to Bach's). Banzai is close to finishing Smith's and I have a palace prebuild 5 turns short of the 600 shield mark. By agreement Banzai will go for Smith's and I will go for Bach's. If my old info on Amsterdam is still valid, the Dutch can't beat me to any wonder, but Romeo is building his one in an inland city we can't inspect. It may even be the case that he will try to switch to Smith's, but he does not have Econonics yet. I already see myself either getting Sistine's (without planing for a single cathedral) or a 580 shield university :(

09-04-2005, 18:58
Turn 153 / 390AD

What a turn :) & [cry]

first the :)
I did not even know SGL are on!

The discovery of Navigation allows me to buy a map from the Dutch:

the new minimap:

but then [cry]


I can fallback to the Sistine Chapel (not an option) or Smith's (agreed with Banzai he would get it). So basically I will get the 200 shield university.

Some other interesting observations:

Romeo, while having at least 2 iron and salpeter, misses horses. He can get them from the Dutch close to his southern border though.

Both Dutch towns in his north are settled next to a furs resource, which Romeo misses.

Matrix has no iron visible for me. He has one town out of my view on the southwestern one of the two isle he settled. It probably will hold his iron.

While playing the turn and writing this, I had a chat with Banzai. He basically agreed about me claiming Hoover's and him taking The Universal Suffrage. He feels very strong to me
quote:"[16:48] Banzai: i see no reason to attack you.. we are working together just fine"
"[16:48] Banzai: romeo is a much bigger threat"and while he is far stronger than I am, I only consider Romeo bigger. I still have the MGL -> cav. army and the SGL -> Hoover's.

20-04-2005, 15:59
480AD / turn 163

The invasion of the other continent has started:

The Germans and Celts obviously work together now; Matrix has been gifted many techs to reach the Industial Ages faster and get his free tech. They still struggle very hard against the Dutch. Meanwhile Banzai and I have met in the ocean to land troops next to Entremont and Alesia. This turn I have declared war on the Celts and Banzai will do so too.

The stack contains: Army (3 vet. cavs), 5 vet. cavs, 4 vet. AC, 3 elite legions.

I also sent 4 vet AC towards Lauwersoog - they could not join the main stack in time and it will force him to split troops or let me take the city, which was formerly a Dutch one.

Our goal is "to raze a few core cities" as Banzai put it. That should be at least Alesia (Forbidden Palace), Entremont (Palace, Knights Templar), Lugdunum (Bach's). My secondary goal is to keep my cav army alive of course and to fish for another MGL with the 3 elite legions. I also will use up my soon obsolete ACs to free unit support for cav and the soon to have infantries.

We now have researched Steam, Medicine and Electricity. Banzai will do Sci. Method or Rep. Parts next (depending on his ToE prebuild) while I will do Industialization. The Celts and Germans still miss Metallurgy to enter the Industial Ages plus Military Tradition, Navigation and Economics.

21-04-2005, 15:25
I took Alesia and destroyed Lauwersoog as expected (and as you can read in the open thread). Romeo has made peace with the Dutch and signed them to a MA vs Banzai and me and the Dutch did declare. I did not get war happiness from their declaration though. The faces in my towns did not change since last turn (yes I moved the lux slider once back and forth) and I also can't see it from counting the faces. Can anyone explain this to me?

No market, no temple, lux (temporarily) to zero, no ww. I count 1 content face (emperor) + 5 luxes = 3 happy faces and that's what the picture shows. No war happiness for me, why?

21-04-2005, 20:39
There is a set of graphics that displays nationality mood badges @ CFC. Faster than clicking them all...

21-04-2005, 21:01
quote:Originally posted by Paalikles

There is a set of graphics that displays nationality mood badges @ CFC. Faster than clicking them all...
Yes, aeh, I thought that is what I use; I do not click them all.
Sorry, I guess your comment is helpfull, but I don't get it.

21-04-2005, 21:13
Nope - the nationality mood badge gives different colors to different citizens according to what civ they originate from

Example: if you have egyptian, french and iroquis citizens - you should have yellow, pink and purple mood badges.

From the screenshot above, I can say that you do not have the right one installed :(

21-04-2005, 21:17
Well all people are Romans and all have a red stripe on their head. Look below for an example and you can see how to distinguish a Greek citizen in Athens.


Btw, my original question aimed to the moods of my citizens and their missing war happiness.

21-04-2005, 21:21
Sorry. Firstly, I misunderstood, and secondly, I expected those smileys to have differing colors (which is what I use)

I agree now (reread the post) that I too do not understand why the moods are behaving that way. It could be that they change from this turn to the next due to some unexplainable pbem mechanism though...

21-04-2005, 21:25
oystien article on WW -> http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=61628

anything less than 0 is war happiness
level 1 WW @ 31wwp (war weariness points)

AI declares on you is -30 wwp, however, I don't think you get this if they are brought in via an MA or MPP (see post 42 in the thread)

add 1 wwp for each turn you are in enemy territory
add 1 wwp for each undefendable unit lost (settlers/workers, etc)
add 2 wwp's for every attacking unit defeated.
add 2 wwp's for defending against each attack (even if successful)

now, do the numbers end up between 0 and 30? if so, that means you are "normal"

21-04-2005, 22:04
quote:AI declares on you is -30 wwp, however, I don't think you get this if they are brought in via an MA or MPP (see post 42 in the thread) I knew the post by Oystein, but I overlooked this piece of information. Thanks, that explains it.

22-04-2005, 14:09
Battle report of 500AD:

vet cav (-3) - vet musket (killed)
vet cav (-1) - conscript rifle (killed)
elite legion (-3) - vet MDI (killed)
Camulodunum taken.

vet cav (killed) - conscript rifle (-1)
vet cav (-0) - vet MDI (killed)
vet cav (-3/retreats) - vet MDI (-1)
vet AC (-0) - conscript 1/2 rifle (killed)
vet AC (killed) - vet 3/4 MDI (-0)
vet AC (-3) - vet 3/4 MDI (killed)
Verulamium taken.

vet AC (killed) - 13/13 MDI army (-6? not 100% sure it was 6 or 7)

Camulodunum, Verulamium and Aisela (former Alesia) abandoned. And yes, I was so clever to let the unhappiness from drafting jump to my mainland. I was lucky though, since it jumped to a relative small city with a market.

I reloaded the 3 remaing ACs from former Lauwersoog and will drop them next turn on a mountain between 2 other cities in Romeo's north. I doubt he will have much, if any, defenders there.

22-04-2005, 19:57
Some pics for Paal.

500AD, beginning of the turn.

After the attacks

Still a bit later. The 3 northern cities done by Banzai, the southern triangle by me.

Me harrasing the north east. You can see the rubble where I razed Lauwersoog. The 3 AC have been loaded back onto the galleon and will disembark on the mountain between Tolosa and Lapurdum you can see to the west.

22-04-2005, 20:05
Thanks :D

Smart to harass in the north - since he sends 3 units to counter those obsolete ACs

I almost was going to say disconnect the lux, but then I saw that he has all of those silks connected - so it would be unlikely that you would succeed

He hasnt got SP I see, and his fastest move on roads is 3moves (infantry)
Just a thought experiment of course, but what if you go to the Tolosa mountain first, and if you survive, head back to the mountain near Ratae in the north east? Logic would not suggest that you would return, although he may have drafted in all cities, or just boosted defenses in general...

23-04-2005, 17:19
530AD: razed this and that (namely undefended Tolosa and undefended Lapurdum)

Some news from my homefront.

I am not sure about the military academy in Rome though. Neapolis will be my best city after the iron works and though Rome could grow much lager once it has a hospital, it will probably stay my most productive city till the end. Do you think I should delay the academy and build it in Neapolis? Should I rush it with a MGL if I get another, or keep that to form a infantry or tank army?

Btw, can anyone tell me, if I get ww points for units that were attacked and have retreated? I have accumulated 15 or 17 ww points depending on that (if I calc. correctly). So I will very probably hit the 30 mark sooner or later.

24-04-2005, 17:42
Some pics from 540AD and 550AD.

540AD setup





and finally 550AD

I was quite lucky the town were empty. It seems Romeo is short on units to cover cities behind the front (and he revolted 530/540AD IIRC). In 550 he is a Monarchy.

24-04-2005, 17:50
Wow. All that green gone. Well done by both of you (though Banzai doesnt read this thread ;) )

How are your supply lines? What do you know about his army?

24-04-2005, 22:30
quote:Originally posted by Paalikles

Wow. All that green gone. Well done by both of you (though Banzai doesnt read this thread ;) )

How are your supply lines? Reinforcements arrive in 4 turns via Galleons from the mainland.

quote:Originally posted by Paalikles

What do you know about his army? Hard to say. Romeo went from average to weak after the first turn of attacks. He has revolted to Monarchy and is drafting like mad, as far as I can see. He has no horses (and never had and will never get them) and no salpeter (since last turn). So what I face is rifles (from conscrpit to veteran) and MDI. According to his post in the open thread, where he anounced armies, he should have at least one left. Mass rifles will cause heavy losses on defence and war weariness, but since he has no fast units...

28-04-2005, 18:48
In 570AD the Heroic Epic was completed. Meanwhile some more cities were razed. This is the minimap.

28-04-2005, 19:08
looks like romeo is dead, does he have any wonders in the remaining towns worth taking?

28-04-2005, 20:05
quote:Originally posted by grahamiam

looks like romeo is dead, does he have any wonders in the remaining towns worth taking?
No. He had Bach's (1 turn before I completed it) and Knights Templar. Both were destroyed when we razed his towns, which we agreed to beforehand. The Dutch have Hanging Gardens, Oracle, Temple of Artemis (all obsolete), Colossus and Sistine's (worthless).

28-04-2005, 20:14
so, this is now mop-up duty. anyone watching his coast for the cheesy settler-on-a-boat trick [lol]

28-04-2005, 20:59
Romeo is not that kind of player imo.

28-04-2005, 21:42
quote:Originally posted by akots

Romeo is not that kind of player imo.
I don't think so either, but even if he would...pfff...there are enough other towns - especially blue ones - to raze till we find him.

28-04-2005, 21:45
You were typing blue and thinking of purle?

29-04-2005, 00:06
no, i didn't mean to imply that romeo was that kind of player. i was just kidding as that seems to be an annoying AI stupidity.

04-05-2005, 21:34

Banzai has broken our aliance and attacked me - to my total surprise. He took 11 cities (most of them empty), up to the mountain ridge next to my core. He wrote me an email explaining his reasons, though I still do not get it. Since he was so much stronger, he did not need to backstab me to win. If we fought together to the end of all others like planned, the only chance of me beating his far superior empire would be a combination of much higher skills and immense luck. Neither do I consider myself a better player than him nor do I belive in luck. So the win is a deserved one in any case, since he played a better game in the sum of 174 turns.

Anyways, I disband all cities and settlers and that was it.

Banzai should not need more than 20 turns to mop up the 2 celtic cities, Matrix' weak Germans and the Dutch AI. A sad end for a great game from my pov.

04-05-2005, 21:39
You apparently had a chance with Hoovers and Iron Works. So, Banzai neutralized this chance. Life is cruel indeed. :)

04-05-2005, 22:48
Expect the unexpected.

At least you take it like a man, unlike some in a team game on another forum, who call themselves "team players"