Rome Total War Julii family Spolier

[digger760]

Ok I've actually purchased the game without getting any further in Soldiers, Heroes of WW2 (it was my plan to finish this game..like so many that have gone before it)

I am playing the Tutotial Campaign as the Julii family, i leave the battle to be auto resolved, as this aspect takes to long for me....I think the advisor has given me bad advice as my economy is struggling i have a relatively large army...but am barly able to support the upkeep cost and know dont have much money to build anymore..infact some turns i loose 2000gold :(

I have 3 cities..Tarentenum kept throwing up civil disorder on me so thrid time capturing it i carried out a mass killing campaign on the population..they seem much more content now and the city is actually making a profit.

I think a big problem was that i left rebels roaming the provinces unabated..not to sure if they have damaged improvements in the area...but i read in PC-Format magazine that, that is what they do..which could explain why my big cities are not generating the income that they should..its either that or my army is simply way to large for the economy that i have.

I have been asked by the senate to get the gauls to become a protectorate state..but they seem to reject the idea hands down. I don't seem to have the Miltary strength to force the issue with them..infact my army just got beaten back by a numerically superior force. So not to sure how i am going to meet the senate request on this one.

Later on i might post pics.

[akots]

Prior experience with Shogun TW tells me that auto-resolving the battles is not a good idea starting from a decent difficulty level. You can end up losing a few extra troops. Sometimes, if deployed right and numerical advantage is present, the AI will just run away as soon as they see your troops, so have only to chase and kill them with cavalry. And this cavalry will really become very high-quality core of the army them. Also, building spies as many as possible is a good alternative way to keep rebels off and subjugate the citizens. Another thing is to merge "incomplete" units with few men in them into each other to keep the upkeep a bit down. But I still have to figure out how it works in RTW. Though tutorial campaign is really somewhat easy. At least as far as I have played (2 cities). Also, I have little trust in these advisors. It is probably like playing civ with governors on all the way, sure path to disaster.

[Melifluous]

Ignore the senate.

They can give you good stuff but otherwise dont bust a nut trying to fulfil these 'requests'.

Money - Set all taxes to Very high so long as this doesnt cause revolt.

Also to spread the cost of your army, take more cities ;)

You must play the fights!

The AI sucks. They will sit there whilst you hit them with artillery. Stupid stupid stupid.

Use governers to bribe armies and cities to join you.

Use assassins to remove annoying spies.

Kill kill and kill again.

Lovely.

Melifluous

[Pastorius]

Gamespy has an article: http://pc.gamespy.com/pc/rome-total-war/551582p1.html

edit:fixed typo

[digger760]

Here is an overview in 303BC:


http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/digger760/200411384729_overview.jpg
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A nice boost to my economy occured during 303BC when a member of the Julii family arrived (on route between Bovanium and Tarentum in the pic) in Tarentum to take up place as Govenor. This lifted Tarentum economry from 330 Denarii to 440 Denarii. Note the Green face on the Tarentum city bar, this is an indicator of city happiness after the mass slaughter of there citizens. (yellow = content) i guess it goes to red when really unhappy.

Here is the Garrison in Tarentum. These guys were stacked here to prevent unrest that had been occuring in recent years and are now not required, so they will be head back north to try and force the Gauls to signing a treaty that will place them as a Roman Protectorate state (as requested by the Senate)

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/digger760/200411384858_tarentumGarrison.jpg
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You might also notice in the Top right hand sode of the picture a couple of Julii ships. These are currently blockading Greek City state ports. This reduces the income of these cities and hopefully weaken Greece.

The blue and the purple on the mini-map are the allied Roman family states. Tarquini in the top left is the Julii capital.

[digger760]

In approx year 300BC the plague struck Tarquini. Fortunately a large Julii army from Tarentum had passed through and joined up with Julii's best general who had been overseeing the day to day running of Tarquini. This army had moved north to force the protectorate issue with the Gauls so it managed to miss the plague.

However, Tarquini, population 13,000 and governed by a young but well educated member of the Julii family was affected. Prior to the plague Tarquini was generating 1000-2000 Denarri per turn. After the plague this dropped significantly. The plague lasted several years (5+ turns iirc) incomes were sometimes negative in this time. The population dropped below 10,000.

The best defense against the plague is to enforce isolation on the city, ie no units come in or out of the city, this stops it from spreading to other cities. However the Conquest of Gaul went very well and the former Gaulish town of Ravenna was in desperate need of a govenor as it was felt that it was in risk of rebelling. And after the pain of the Tarentum riots, this was not going to happen again. Thus an infected member of the Julii family was sent to Ravenna to oversea the running of the city and consquently, the plague struck Ravenna (who cares there only gauls!). Shortly after this The Julli armies finsihed of the last Gaul town (name forgotten).

So now the economy seems much better, i have been able to sav 1000-2000 on some turns and lifted the coffers to over 4000 Danarri, so have begun another mass city building stage which should further strengthen the economy.

The aim of this beginner tutorial is to capture 7 states, so with the capture of the two Gaul states, and the 3 already owned, The Julii family now own 5 states. Two more to capture (to the south i guess).

[digger760]

quote:Originally posted by akots

Prior experience with Shogun TW tells me that auto-resolving the battles is not a good idea starting from a decent difficulty level. You can end up losing a few extra troops. Sometimes, if deployed right and numerical advantage is present, the AI will just run away as soon as they see your troops, so have only to chase and kill them with cavalry. And this cavalry will really become very high-quality core of the army them. Also, building spies as many as possible is a good alternative way to keep rebels off and subjugate the citizens. Another thing is to merge "incomplete" units with few men in them into each other to keep the upkeep a bit down. But I still have to figure out how it works in RTW. Though tutorial campaign is really somewhat easy. At least as far as I have played (2 cities). Also, I have little trust in these advisors. It is probably like playing civ with governors on all the way, sure path to disaster.


I know Auto-resolving battles is not a good idea and it leaves me to the fate of the RNG, which could mean i loose Generals based on bad dice rolls. But the tutorial Campaign is quite simple and i should not loose this one, so far i have won over 20 battles and lost about 5. If i play out the battles this simple tutorial could take me 6-12months to complete. I would rather get and understanding of city management and actually finish a game first. There is every chance that in 6 months time i would simply give up, based on the amount of time it takes to play out all the battles. I get bored of games pretty quickly (excepot for civ for some reason..it just keeps pulling me back for more).

Another issues about the real-time battles is that i am suffereing RSI from in-correct use of the mouse. So I am trying to keep mouse activity to my left hand..on a laptop (with limted key access) this would make battles very hard to execute.

On the issue of Bandit armys...I had made the assumption that these were good training grounds to give conscript units vital battle expereince (I never bothered to look at the summary of auto-resolved battles) but I would expect on the odd occasion for units to be promoted, especially when the battle is a walk over (which is often is with bandits).

I like the idea of merging units, not sure if that would reduce upkeep but it would certainly prevent the dilutiuon of veteran units.

[digger760]

quote:Originally posted by Melifluous

Ignore the senate.

They can give you good stuff but otherwise dont bust a nut trying to fulfil these 'requests'.

Money - Set all taxes to Very high so long as this doesnt cause revolt.

Also to spread the cost of your army, take more cities ;)
You must play the fights!

The AI sucks. They will sit there whilst you hit them with artillery. Stupid stupid stupid.


Use governers to bribe armies and cities to join you.

Use assassins to remove annoying spies.

Kill kill and kill again.

Lovely.

Melifluous



**ATM I aim to keep public order at 100% for no specific reason, other than the fact that no city has rebel at this level of public order.

**I had to make sure uncontent cities were happy first, so that i could move my army to take the Gaul cities, Mass killings in Tarentum, pretty much freed me up to do that.

** As i said to akots, would rather complete a game first..and RSI is causing me a few problems.

**Stupid AI in battles->Another reason not to inflame the RSI

**Govenours->Do you mean diplomates..or can generals perform bribes as well

**hav'nt had problems with enemy spies yet.

***Killing is also good if my army has high support costs. I send them into battles, loose a few->less upkeep, win the battle. Kills 2 birds with one stone :)

[Melifluous]

My apologies I did mean Diplomats.

I like the idea of importing the plague to newly captured cities to keep the population size down, sounds great [fdevil]

If you have no spies of your own, then you wont know if you have a problem with spies ;) Symptoms include a higher chance to revolt and a chance that they will open your gates when the enemy come calling!

Looking at the settlement details for a city (bottom left buttons on the city construction screen) will give you a lot more information on what is making your people unhappy.

RSI sucks. But to give yourself a chance of playing the game cack-handed then you can always pause the game and issue your orders, then unpause it and maybe even speed up time to get rid of the annoying wait for your troops to clash.

Cavalry makes a complete mess of Gallic armies. Period.

Also I almost fell off my chair here when I saw your army!
Was that 2 units of Principes? And one on 2 silver chevrons? Damn in the game I'm playing they could probably kill off an army 10 times their size alone! Experience counts for a lot! The little sword icon is a bonus, but experience kicks ass.

Also you can lower public order to about 75-80%, just check for the little riot icon which flashes on the building construction screen when there is a riot risk.

Faces go Green - Yellow - Blue - Red. As far as I can remember blue should be ok ;)

If you are losing gold build more economic buildings. In order they should be Roads (increase trade and troops move faster), Ports (if you can, more upgrades Ports -> Docks -> Shipwright make more money) and Mines. Markets and Fora are a bonus.

I would personally enslave every new city that I take, it cuts the population in half and is a great way to increase the pop of your core cities (just read that slaves ONLY go to cities that have a governer/general, cool huh?)

Protectorate states? Never managed that ever in any game. If they are in a state to become a protectorate, then they are nearly dead so kill em anyways.

Melifluous

[digger760]

Units of Principles and Cherons?? I never read the manual..i guess you are talking about the units that have gained lots of experience (indicated by the gold and silver badges on the unit icon). Not sure what the sword means. Looks like i should refer to the manual.

I failed to get the Gauls to become a protectorate state..so i killed them [evil].

I suspected that i was running public order 100% was to high..will aim for 85% and see how i go (although i think the game will be over soon)

[Melifluous]

Yes the little badges are called chevrons. Like a sergeants stripes [:p]

And the units I was talking about are called Principes.

I think the roman infantry goes

Hastati -> Principes.
then
Early Legionairre Cohort -> Legionnaire Cohort -> Urban Cohort

Try clicking on the Building map button on the building construction screen. This will show you all the buildings you can build in that city and what the building upgrades will be. Right clicking on the building will show you what they can build and give you a description of the buildings function.

Interesting thing to note.

Generals pick up a retinue right?

If you have more than one general in the same place (army, boat or city) then you can click and drag those retinue members to a different general. Neat huh?

Melifluous

[digger760]

I hav'nt explored the benefits of retinue (poets etc..) yet.

[digger760]

Forgive me father for i have sinned..ti has been over a week since i played RTW.

Here is the new territories in Northern Italy:
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/digger760/200411129233_northRome.jpg
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This week i attempted to look at some of the detail of the city screen, including what affects:

Population Growth
Public Order and
Income

Here is the city of Ravenna a year or so after its capture.:
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/digger760/2004111285955_ravenna.jpg
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As you can see in the picture, the population of Ravenna are a happy bunch of people, this is due in large the the influence of the govenour Cnaeus Julius and the garrision in the city. The city also has a large surplus of food and is generating a nice income (i now seem to have the economy well in order, as this is reflect in all settlements)

Notice on the Settlement Details Page the +/- for each aspect of population, public order and income. I tried to balance each one out..but none of them seem to add up to the 5.5%, 150% and +1360 as summarized in the picture above..any insight into how this is done would be greatly appreciated.

Ravenna is 3 turns away from completing paved roads (i think) this will improve trade into the settlement and help out even futher with the overall economy.

I decided to play out a real-time battle...an simple one with Cnaeus Julii temporarily leaving is govenours office to rid the province of Ravenna of a large band of brigades.

Cnaeus, outnumber almost 2 to 1, had far more experienced forces and was up against a somewhat dumb opponent..happy to stand there an let the Roman archers and javelin thowers get target practice. who were targeting the more worrysome light and heavy infantry units of the rebels

Observing the complete stupidity of the AI, Cnaeus decided to perfrom a cavalry charge on a unit of rebel peasants, 15 horsemen vs 60 peasants. This proved to be no trouble at all to Cnaeus, as the nearby Rebel units did not move to re-enforce the peasants unit. Shortly later the peasant unit fled.. Cnaeus decided not to pursue the survivors but instead deliver a desive blow to the rebels and instead charge the Rebel leader units. At the same moment a charge was ordered on the remaing Roman infantry to charge the depeleted rebel infantry. It did not take long to kill the rebel leader and this routed the remaing rebel units. The battle was a completed success:

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/digger760/2004111292214_battle.jpg
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And a couple of units gained a level of experience from it.

Thats all for this week. I am building up a force to head south to conquer the remaining 2 provinces down there.

[Dell19]

quote:Originally posted by digger760
I know Auto-resolving battles is not a good idea and it leaves me to the fate of the RNG, which could mean i loose Generals based on bad dice rolls.


By fighting your own battles you probably would have won them all... I've seen the AI lose battles severely which when I've taken control instead, the battle has comfortably gone in my favour. On normal difficulty the only losable situations seem to be when the AI has a huge numerical advantage...

[akots]

quote:Originally posted by Dell19

... On normal difficulty the only losable situations seem to be when the AI has a huge numerical advantage...


I'm playing on medium 1-2 turns per week and find it so easy that will probably abandon and start over at a decent difficulty. As of yesterday, my 8-star general (22 HC bodyguards) has defeated 700+ soldier army of Brennus (5-star) with 4x40 Hastati and 2x27 Equites losing about 30 Hastati and 10-12 horsemen. Only about 150 enemies were able to escape the battle. The very same turn, the general defeated another army of about 300 men losing 5 or 7 Hastati (less than 10 barbarians were able to run away) and started siege of the Gallic city which has been captured first thing next turn promoting my guy on another battle level. Seems that he will be unbeatable with that little army he has anyhow, so it is just a matter of moving him to the next province. Cash flow is also OK and there is enough to build all required improvements and train/retrain occasional troops/fleet. I'm around turn 18 or so but it is crystal clear the game will be won. I'm planning on play it to the battle against Rome though. Also, Academy is very nice improvement to "farm" the skills of the governor. Works much faster than a solid coach in hattrick.

[digger760]

I dont think i will finish this game...as it is just a formality. I have started a new game on hard difficulty level.

I decided to risk RSI and take on the real time battles. In my very first move i attacked a Rebel? (or gaulish) village defended by about 130 peasants (or something similar) i had my army approach the village centre. 1 spearman troop and 2x Hastati and archers at one end and my leader and his bodyguards ready for a charge at thh other. For a few mins I let my archers soften them up while they stood ther stupid. Then i moved in my hastati..they throw spears i think...but not long after the Hastatu charged the enemy. So i quickly order my general and body guards to charge from the other end. The leader of the Julii familty lasted about 2 seconds and was dead!m But i managed to kill every enemy without too many losses (about 13 in total)...was this bad luck or bad tatctics?

[Shabbaman]

You could better had another squad of hastati surround them. But losing your general after two seconds sounds like bad luck to me.
Why aren't you starting an imperial campaign?

[akots]

Well, might be better to keep the leader and bodyguards to chase them off. Hastati and archers can break them so that they start to run. Losing the clan leader is not fun but can happen if he is rushed too early in the battle. Also, when you surround the enemy, they have to fight to the bitter end since they cannot retreat. This usually means their spirit is rising because they fight for their lives. Quite possible is to leave an opening instead so that they can rout safely and when they do, just catch them with Cavalry.

[digger760]

quote:Originally posted by Shabbaman

Why aren't you starting an imperial campaign?


I forgot to say that...I have actually started an imperial campaign (short one..1st to capture 15 provinces). Very first turn. 1st battle I lost my leader.

[digger760]

Ok my first attempt at the short imperial campaign did'nt go that well:

I lost my leader in the 1st battle
My best army was outnumbered and defeated by the gauls (they had better units and better commander)
I fought of a siege of my capital, but in doing so exposed another smaller town, which the gauls captured
At this point i lacked an economny and the ability to create good units to counter attack, while the gauls where throwing masses of units against me. I decided to restart..but this time build up a bit of size and a better economy before taking on the gauls.

[digger760]

2nd Attempt at the short imperial campaign did'nt go to well either (medium difficulty)

I managed to capture carthage, it was not a great victory, it took me two attacks. I outnumbered the Carthargians, but getting over 20 Foot stone wall takes time and on the 1st attempt i simply ran out of time, to get to the City Centre. I also learned a valuble leason trying to batter down the gates. Cities with stone walls pour burning oil on the people at the gates, which pretty much kills the attacking units. So i used siege towers to take the walls first, but due to the narow nature of the walls, it took sometime to kill the 2 defending spear units the were defending the gatehouse. On the second attempt there was only 1 unit defending the wall so i was able to attack from both sides on the wall, and open the gate before killing the defenders on the wall. I then had an open run to the City centre to kill the Carthginian leader and capture the city. Carthage was a much better town than my own capital, it had the ability to build better units, but Carthage had a significant numerical advantage in the navy, so i was unable to ship units back to Rome.

This left me open to the Celts, who i a few turns time attacked. I did have one major victory over the celts on the plains on northern Italy (I like how it got marked on the campaign map, and the date that it was fought) But the celts had superior numbers and veteran troops, while i had consctript units and my large towns only had wooden walls as a defense. I a few turns they took my capital and another large town. at that point i gave up.


I am now on my third attempt, this time easy difficulty. Seem to have started well, taking rebel village of Segasta with easy (then again, it was easy on the hard levels as well). But this time i have taken it to the celts early, with cavalry and have captured Modolidium(?) but not before the celts attempted to lift the siege with a rear on attack. I managed to fight them of, and infact deliver a good blow to the celts so that Modolidim should be safe for a while, just need to get a few hasati and cavalry up that way, before the celts regroup. I might also still have a shot at capturing Potavium, but only if it is poorly defended, can't leave myself to thinly spread on the Celtic frontier!

[DrAlimentado]

There is a small utility exe you can download that disables the timer in saved games, very useful. Makes seige battles much more enjoyable when you can take your time and don't have to rush for the centre.

[Shabbaman]

The most comprehensive newbie guide (http://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=38382) I've ever read. And it's a good read too.
Major bummer re this game: that you can't build certain buildings until your city has reached a certain size. And unless you've got a governor in the city (for the slaves, you know), it takes ages... A real pity. There should've been a "migration program" or something. I know you can build and disband peasants (or other units), but the cities with a large population are building offensive units.

[digger760]

quote:Originally posted by DrAlimentado



There is a small utility exe you can download that disables the timer in saved games, very useful. Makes seige battles much more enjoyable when you can take your time and don't have to rush for the centre.


from shabba's guide:
quote:
3. Choosing your faction, difficulty and all those other important options


At this point it seems most opportune to mention a very handy bug for those of us who hate the time limits that are present in the campaign battles. Before you start your campaign (this is vital – it only works before you start) go into ‘historical battles’ from the main singleplayer menu, then immediately exit without playing any battles. Now go and start your campaign without doing anything else; just go to the campaign screen, select your faction and options and go. Now all battles will have unlimited time. This works; I have used it myself.

[Shabbaman]

I've almost completed my second complete campaign: one scipii city, Leptis Magna (yes, civ spelling ;) ), and then 5 more territories to get to 50. This time I played as the julii on medium/medium. My previous full campaign was easy/easy with the brutii, which was really easy easy.
To sum it up: I got extremily lucky at least once. When the Scipii invaded Africa (since they start a war with Carthage immediately, this was pretty soon, in 20 turns or so) I could secure Carthage. Carthage is supposed to be heavily defended, but it wasn't: there was only half an army or so, without elephants. This capture proved critical, since I could build an imperial palace in Carthage quickly, which triggered the marius reforms (and thus granted access to the powerful legionary cohorts).
The brutii got a lot of territory in Greece, where the real money is. My primary focus has been to deny them territory, since I knew that I'd have to get their territory as well to win the game. As soon as I could I begun recruiting assassins. After the war in Gaul I had a bunch of experienced assassins, and I started picking on the roman characters. The family leaders were too good protected, but this is were I got lucky for the second time: the Brutii leader got old, and died of natural causes (or he was killed by a gladiator uprising, don't know for sure). And since I had already killed all other brutii family members... the brutii disappeared from the map! All their territories reverted to the rebels, and I had an easy time grabbing up the spoils.

[digger760]

I also found Carthage was easily captured on medium/medium.

I am playing easy/easy Julli. I was advised to capture Patavium quickly..as it is a good producer for the gauls. I have done so and now also sending diplomats out to make contacts..something i has not done previosly. But its been a while since i have played..just after christmas day since my last session.

[Shabbaman]

Patavium and Milan are good cities, they make good money. A tip: capture the rebel territories to the north (vienna and bohemia), and put a governor in it. Another tip: build fortresses in the mountain passes through the alps. The AI won't attack them, so you're pretty safe. Make sure to leave a garrison it them (town watch), otherwise they'll disband.

What also worked for me is to ally with the spanish. Eventually they'll backstab you, but that's for another time. Try to convince them to attack the gauls.

I've found a nice way of getting more family members: fight battles without a general. If the captain has a good win, he'll be a candidate for adoption.

There's supposed to be a patch at the end of this month. Should be some good.