View Full Version : Fab Four - Spoiler
Here's my starting position:
http://www.straland.com/images/cdz/fabfour01.jpg
Uhoh...
http://www.straland.com/images/cdz/fabfour02.jpg
Pastorius
31-10-2004, 22:25
IMO, popping that close is no good without 2 warriors present...
why improving land outside yer border btw?
Should I have waited until I had two warriors?
About the worker: I'm going to build there a.s.a.p. to get the furs.
digger760
01-11-2004, 10:07
I think you'd have been better improving the cow first. A little bit of lux tax early in the game does not hurt much and would be made up for with the faster growth from an improved cow tile.
Good point. Thanks! :)
I think I'll move to the cow after all, after I've finished this road.
I've met the Dutch! [yeah]
Well, actually they've met me.
And my first settler is done. ;)
http://www.straland.com/images/cdz/FF03.jpg
Hm, when moving to the spot where I wanted to settle, I discovered a whale. Should I still settle on the fur, or one tile southwest of it?
http://www.straland.com/images/cdz/FF04.jpg
Pastorius
17-11-2004, 21:33
Hm. I fell unqualified to answer. I have taken to having a x00x pattern between my cities for defense purposes myself, and if that was applied here, you would have gone one tile too far already.
Eemmm...wait a sec. Damn it, I fuck up when counting tiles without a grid in zoomed out mode. On second glance it appears you have applied just that.
If you do that, you will have a stronger tile in the 21, but you also miss a land tile. The thing to do here is to evaluate what combination of tiles that gives higher output, and choose the one that is relatively better. In fact unless there are special circumstances that apply, I would go by the traditional cost-benefit analysis approach for every city placement
just my 2 cents.
I would move the settler. You are scientific and will certainly build library there. The city can share the cow with Berlin and you get food after the harbor is up and shields from mined furs and mined BG and forests depending on what you want. Whales is one of the greatest resource and it is worth trying to claim it at all costs. Do you have granary in Berlin? Now it might be a good timing to start on one instead of another warrior.
Darkness
18-11-2004, 08:05
move SW
Ok, I'll move SW. ;)
Akots, I really like to have one more warrior, to explore. That Dutchman is threatening me there.
Rik Meleet
18-11-2004, 13:35
Chicken. What harm have the dutch ever done to the Germans?
Well, for starters I don't have iron. I don't know about them though. And I'm locked in!!
In two turns I'll have The Wheel and know whether I do have horses...
http://www.straland.com/images/cdz/FF05.gif
http://www.straland.com/images/cdz/FF06.jpg
http://www.straland.com/images/cdz/FF07.jpg
Rik Meleet
03-01-2005, 17:38
Capture Groningen then :)
When is then?
I think Rotterdam will be the first city to fall. After that I'll take Groningen.
I have horses and coincidentally they're already connected as well. :)
I continue my research with Horseback Riding at maximum speed.
digger760
05-01-2005, 09:20
what are your plans for the settler headed out of berlin?
Kingreno
05-01-2005, 10:15
You don't like setling on rivers do you? ;).
On a more serious note, I'd say put the cities closer together. That way you will not need stupid temples. Germany is Sci-Mil; let them do what they are good at, fighting and building libs/unis.
As for city placement:
- S, S, from Hamburg. Netting a cow!
- NW, NW, NW of Hamburg. On the river.
- NW, NW, NW of Berlin. On the coast, 2 BG.
What I would also do...is abandon Koningsberg. It is horribly placed, refounding it for example even ONE square SE or E would put the wines in cultural overlap with Frankfurt, not needing culture for a while, and opening up good city-sites North of Koningsberg.
Just my PoV! [tongue]
It is good to see this map is working fine for this game, keep up the Spoilers![thumbsup]
Pastorius
05-01-2005, 10:44
Agree with the King on all his stuff above [:P] IMO Frankfurt should have been placed on river (one tile N)
What's the advantage of building a city on a river when you're not agricultural?
I was actually planning to build cities on those land tiles projecting out of the continent in the northeast. But I suppose I better follow KingReno's suggestion on Konigsberg...
I did plan to build the city NW NW NW of Berlin though! And I actually thought about building a city on the hill next to the cow instead of S S of Hamburg.
The settler was on it's way to build a city N NE NE of Konigsberg. I'll now go to the cow in the southeast first.
[sigh] I'll never learn this game. [rolleyes]
digger760
05-01-2005, 17:41
Well you dont have to build an aqueduct if you build on a river...and aqueducts often get delayed when your're under a bit of pressure..and by the looks of those orange people..you might be under pressure soon.
Kingreno
05-01-2005, 20:11
quote:Originally posted by Matrix
What's the advantage of building a city on a river when you're not agricultural?
I was actually planning to build cities on those land tiles projecting out of the continent in the northeast. But I suppose I better follow KingReno's suggestion on Konigsberg...
I did plan to build the city NW NW NW of Berlin though! And I actually thought about building a city on the hill next to the cow instead of S S of Hamburg.
The settler was on it's way to build a city N NE NE of Konigsberg. I'll now go to the cow in the southeast first.
[sigh] I'll never learn this game. [rolleyes]
For the first question, cities on a river generate an extra commerce in the ciycentre and also get to grow to size 12 without an aquaduct. Also, a city on a river has (some of) its laborours working tiles next to that river, generating free commerce and irrigation possibilities.
A question. how do you make the decision on where to build the next city? You don't need to implement all kinds of dotmaps but if you make some sort of map (in your head is good enough :)) you can visiualise the core of your empire. This is in particluar handy when borders overlap. This allows "free" lanarea to work on.
As for disbanding Koningsberg, setlerdisband it! Create a setler as it gets size 2, it will abandon the city and give a setler. The comp will ask whether you want to delay production or abandon, so do not worry about it, just abandon and refound on the right spot. Not too much wasted![hammer]
quote:Originally posted by Kingreno
For the first question, cities on a river generate an extra commerce in the ciycentre and also get to grow to size 12 without an aquaduct. Also, a city on a river has (some of) its laborours working tiles next to that river, generating free commerce and irrigation possibilities.
Point taken.
quote:Originally posted by Kingreno
A question. how do you make the decision on where to build the next city? You don't need to implement all kinds of dotmaps but if you make some sort of map (in your head is good enough :)) you can visiualise the core of your empire. This is in particluar handy when borders overlap. This allows "free" lanarea to work on.
I do think about it, but just that I want to use every tile by a city once I've built all the cities in my core area. I just judge whether the cities I build have enough tiles to use and that not too many tiles are left unused.
quote:Originally posted by Kingreno
As for disbanding Koningsberg, setlerdisband it! Create a setler as it gets size 2, it will abandon the city and give a setler. The comp will ask whether you want to delay production or abandon, so do not worry about it, just abandon and refound on the right spot. Not too much wasted![hammer]
I already figured that out. :) In five turns the city will be abandoned and the next turn I'll have a new city (one tile SE of it).
By the way, the settler from Berlin was already much further ahead (screenshot is old), so it'll build a city on the floodplain northeast of Konigsberg.
Interesting developments recently.
http://www.straland.com/images/cdz/FF08.gif
My homeland (http://www.straland.com/fabfour/home.jpg).
First of all romeothemonk (Celts) is fighting with the Byzantines and is doing well! That can be seen in the power histograph (http://www.straland.com/fabfour/histograph.gif).
Secondly I'm stuck between water and the Netherlands. My room is very limited. [help] I wonder if I did something wrong that makes me so much smaller than the rest. I don't think I could possibly be fighting the Netherlands by now, while romeothemonk already took two Byzantine cities and destroyed another.
I'm building horsemen at full speed. But Salzburg is built on a source of iron.
Romeothemonk has offered me to get me into the Middle Ages if I'd give him the free tech I get. Therefore he gave me Construction, Code of Laws and Polytheism this turn and will give me Currency next turn. [eek] Who can object to that? :)
We had a tech deal a few turns ago that I would give Map Making for something else, but then he got it himself and I was left alone. I was far behind in tech so I figured I might as well wander through his lands fishing for some war happiness [mischief], but he didn't bite. That does however make me feel surprised that he made this offer.
Now...should I build horsemen, or wait until I can build swordmen?
If I should build horsemen, should I wait with attacking until I can upgrade those to knights, or will that take too long?
Kingreno
09-02-2005, 10:54
quote:I'm building horsemen at full speed. But Salzburg is built on a source of iron.
Uh...and what's the problem with that?[confused]
I'd say go for horsemen. BUT only if the Dutch don't have swiss mercs yet. If they do it's either knights or cav as the way to go.
You will probably strike groningen first. now this is a size 7 city and that is not good. If I were you I'd declare war first, then wait a turn, then attack the city. In the interturn William will very likely whipp in a unit (spear) in the city so it will go down to size 6. That means less defence. I could be worng here btw.
After groningen take the other cities on your peninsula (maastricht and Haarlem). I'd considder razing groningen but keep the others.
Drop off two spears on the horses with a galley, and pillage it.
The bottleneck at Rotterdam is a nice spot to re-evaluate your position. It is size 7 and has NO culture. That mean sit is very likely they are building a wonder. check f7. If so, that may well be worth the wait![coool]
Diplo...you do NOT want a war with the celts now. realy.[blush]
Swiss Mercenary: no horses.
Of course.
Letting William whip in Groningen.
[slanteye] Interesting tactic. I doubt I'll use it though; too risky.
razing groningen...
Why?
Pillage Dutch source of horses.
Good idea! [yeah]
Edit: Never mind, he has two other sources as well. [sad]
Rotterdam
Smart. I checked it out: Rotterdam is building the Temple of Artemis. That might take a long time; I'm not sure if it's worth waiting for. Investigating Rotterdam would cost 88 gold. Shall I save some money for that before attacking?
No war with Celts
Well, not anymore of course. But what's wrong with war happiness? It's not like he can get to me soon.
Anyway, thanks for thinking along. I suppose you'll think I could use a little help. [blush]
Kingreno
09-02-2005, 13:51
Razing Groningen because of the flipchance being rather high and It would take a long time before you quelled the resistance. This all means you need units there instead at the front, where they are needed more. BUT if you starve it to size one, and use 2 horses near it in case it flips it is also "keepable", since it is well-placed. Just do not keep any units in it.
The ToA would be a very nice wonder to capture, and I do not think it will take that long! If you do have the 88 gold available I'd check it out. You can then see the # of resources they have as well, and the number of defenders in Rotterdam. If you have literature I'd gift it to the Dutch as well as they may have to change the ToA if another AI gets it. Now that would be a nice wonder in Rotterdam!
There is also nothing worng with Warhapiness but I doubt he will talk peace ever again like the AI always will if you declare war.:)
Pastorius
09-02-2005, 17:15
Agree. If I was romeothemonk, I would calculate that I could outproduce you in the long run (because I have already gained resources in war). So the warhappiness only becomes a short term benefit for you. Add to that him possibly never renegotiating peace, whilst making sure the warhappiness effect is reduced for you, and you ll be in trouble.
All of KR's suggestions sounds good in my ears/eyes. Never really used the tactic of gifting techs to the AI to get something built and then capture it, but I guess it is only my limited imagination.
This is why keeping spoilers are great (not that mine gets any replies), you learn a lot more from talking to people about gameplay events than you do just sitting infront of the computer and playing with yourself...
I've captured Groningen, but although I have pillaged the only Dutch source of iron they have Swiss Mercenary all over the place.
Romeothemonk thinks he needs me to win. But he gave me all the techs he has to get to the Middle Ages in exchange for Monotheism (my free tech as scientific civ) And then he gave me Theology, Engineering, Invention and Gunpowder, while I only gave Feudalism and Chivalry. That's where we stand and Banzai and grs are already in the Industrial Age!
The map:
http://www.straland.com/images/cdz/FF09.gif
So I'm very close to Banzai. I have had very little contact with him and grs.
H. O. P. E. L. E. S. S.
Get a load of this tech story (especially the end).
------------
430 BC (106): Romeothemonk gives me Construction, Polytheism and Code of Laws.
410 BC (107): Romeothemonk gives me Currency. New age, and I receive Monotheism. I give it to romeothemonk, as agreed. I start researching Feudalism, he'd do Engineering or Theology; I don't remember. But I also traded with the Netherlands: Republic for Monotheism and went into anarchy. Romeothemonk would probably just have given it to me if I asked (thinking now), but he already gave so much to me, so I didn't think so back then.
270 BC (114): Germany becomes a republic.
50 BC (125): Contact with Banzai! Romeothemonk already had contact.
30 BC (126): One turn before I'd have researched Feudalism, he offers it to me (unaccepted). [confused] He did so before, because I simply researched too slow for him.
110 AD (133): I research Chivalry. Romeothemonk already has it. From here on I research in a straight line towards Military Tradition (starting with Engineering).
210 AD (138): Contact with grs! Again, romeothemonk already had contact.
330 AD (148): Romeothemonk gives Engineering.
370 AD (152): Banzai enters the Industrial Age.
380 AD (153): Grs enters the Industrial Age.
390 AD (154): Romeothemonk gives me Invention.
400 AD (155): Romeothemonk gives me Theology and Gunpowder.
410 AD (156): Romeothemonk gives me Education and Chemistry.
420 AD (157): Romeothemonk gives me Astronomy and Banking.
430 AD (158): Romeothemonk gives me Physics.
440 AD (159): Romeothemonk gives me Theory of Gravity.
450 AD (160): Romeothemonk gives me Magnetism. The Dutch get Metallurgy and enter the Industrial Age.
480 AD (163): Although I don't know why I continued researching I was done researching a tech myself: Metallurgy, which brings me to the Industrial Age. Romeothemonk gets it from me of course. The same turn I hear Banzai and grs landed Stacks of Doom near his core. Poor chap. :(
490 AD (164): I give Nationalism to romeothemonk.
------------
Now, he entered the Middle Ages in turn 107. Gave me Magnetism on turn 160. (The fact that he didn't Magnetism along with Theory of Gravity on turn 159 suggests he didn't have it then.)
160-107=53. In that time he either obtained 13 techs, either from the Dutch or by own research. I doubt he traded with Banzai or grs. So that's 53/13=4.08 turns per tech. Dang! And he went from Ancient to Industrious Age in 56 turns all by himself (and an AI). That's impressive! [eek]
Well, it is possible. I almost questioned that, because he was giving that many techs so fast and I hadn't counted the turns until writing this post. I asked him how he got them and he said: "Research. I just threw down a ton of cities and used the republic bonus."
Pastorius
21-04-2005, 21:32
Well - since you cannot expect grs or banzai to just sit there without researching, and since Romeo had contact with them, tech price will drop. That is not a full explanation, but he also has a large empire=> lots of commerce...
Oh well, what do I know
By the way, the situation is still hopeless. [tongue] Even if grs and Banzai would go to war with each other after eliminating romeothemonk (seeing the Dutch and myself as a lower or no threat), I still have to kill the Dutch. And without saltpeter and Swiss Mercenary against me that might even take longer than grs eliminating Banzai or the other way around. [rolleyes]
Well, at least I'm the last one to die. :D
I'm not planning to delay this, but I do like to finish it. (And Banzai doesn't mind.) Therefore I've loaded all my twelve knights into three galleons and will deploy them in the Iroquois core. Who knows, he might be thinking I'm just waiting for his invasion. Probably not though. Oh well... [rolleyes]
Pastorius
31-05-2005, 21:49
Cool. Go down in style. Way to go man. You know everyone here is rooting for you ;)
romeothemonk
31-05-2005, 23:19
I was doing 4 turn research through almost the entire middle ages. I also had PP and Music theory that I didn't give to you.
http://www.straland.com/images/cdz/FF10.jpg
http://www.straland.com/images/smilies/pointandlaugh.gif
Pastorius
02-06-2005, 15:02
DUDE.
Too bad you cannot reach his capital next turn. But still. Way to go down in flames
digger760
02-06-2005, 17:41
with luck he wont notice and not re-enforce the city, however since he has rails from her to the ying yang, it is unlikey you will find it empty next turn.
If you take the city, can you use the terrain you win out of it for free moves and maybe you can reach the next city on the same turn, then abondon the first city you took at the end of turn.
RegentMan
12-06-2005, 00:03
Ack! What happened wth your knight invasion, Matrix!?!
Not much, actually. He only managed to kill four knights. Then I attacked St. Regis, but he moved all his infantry in there of course. [rolleyes] I did surprise him though. :D
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