*** SPOILER *** Killer vs Darkness

[Darkness]

My first PBEM game... :)
My first horrible loss? [blush2]

The map has been requested...

It's emperor level with both Killer and myself playing as the Iroquois (I figured I'd take a good civ for my first PBEM).

I'll post my start once the game has begun...


Wish me luck!.... I'll probably need it.... :D

[Aggie]

I expect the Iroquois to win this ;) Good luck and have fun!

[Darkness]

OK, it has begun....

My first thoughts:
Well, thanks Beam! Now it’s a Netherlands-Germany game :D Killer and I both play the Iroqs, but the civ names and city lists have been changed to Germany for Killer and the Netherlands for me.

Start is great. Worker moves to cattle (which Beam kindly put on a BG), settler founds Rotterdam (Amsterdam will be some nice tundra fishing village I think ;)).
Only three other civs in the game that start with Alphabet, so max science to writing.

The start:

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/darkness/2004112512461_Dutch start.jpg
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For now, I've decided to build settler (turn 9), worker (turn 13), granary (turn ?), with my second town building some warriors for exploration and MP, but this may change when new developments

[Beam]

quote:the civ names and city lists have been changed to Germany for Killer and the Netherlands for me

Just imagine me sitting and retyping all those city names, leader names, finding a way to have the Iroqs twice in the game etc. etc. ;)

[Grille]

Have an expansion yet?

If not, I suggest to (temporarily) switch to granny; popping a settler wouldn't hurt at this stage.;)

[Darkness]

I know grille.

We're at turn 3, so no cultural exp yet.
I am considering to gamble on it, by means of building a warrior first, and letting the cultural expansion get the hut, but that would also mean I have military, so barbarians are another possible result... Just not sure, but I think I'll play it safe and get the hut by culture without having any military. Unfortunately I'll have a settler before the cult. exp. so the GH won't give me any chance of a settler if I play it this way...

[Darkness]

Now it's 3000BC in my game against Killer. (Yes, I know we're going slow and it's mostly my fault too... ;)

This is how my land looks like now (No military [:p] )
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/darkness/200512085411_3000BC.jpg
124.78*KB

In one of the early turns I made a huge mistake. :( After Rotterdam had grown I forgot to adjust the lux slider, so there were riots next turn. So my settler production was delayed by one turn. That settler became The Hague, 'cause after cultural expansion I could see the second cow (exploring by culture [crazyeye], that's what you get by not building any military...), so I can have 2 settler factories. Nice. Thanks Beam! :)
After the settler came a worker and The Hague also built a worker first. Next up are the granaries that are now being built in both cities.

Killer's capital has been bigger than mine in F11 the entire game (he's player 1 and I've done a settler first, while he's gone for either military first (most likely) or a granary (less likely due to a drop in population before he could have acquired enough shields for both a granary and a settler on turn 17-18, provided he's not been given three cows in his starting 21 tiles by Beam for his start, which IMHO is unlikely, considering we asked for fair starts). Right now I'm ranking first or second in all mayor categories, with Killer or Russia being number one in the ones that I don't lead, because Russia popped a settler (Score jump on turn 8 or so).
After the granaries I'll start pumping out settlers like mad...
Science: Because Killer has had a bigger capital for the first 20 turns, and we both start with alphabet, I think it's unlikely I'll get to writing first, but I want it ASAP to try to overtake him while researching philosophy, which I think may be possible due to the rapid expansion rate I'll achieve after I've got my two granaries...

We'll see what happens... :)


PS: The hut gave me 25 gold...

[Darkness]

Killer just sent me the save, and in the email he mentions he'll be getting philosophy next turn... Good for him! :(;)

There's just one little problem though: I'll be getting philosophy this turn! :D
I have every reason to believe there are no AI's with Philosophy yet, as I have already met the strongest (scoreleader) of them, which are the expansionist Russians, and last turn they still hadn't discovered writing yet... :)

I'll be playing the turn when I get home from work tonight, so I'll post a more elaborate spoiler on the game later tonight, or perhaps tomorrow...

[Darkness]

Turn 46:

Philosophy discovered

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/darkness/2005228194857_Philosophy.jpg
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And I got it first... :D

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/darkness/200522819500_CodeofLaws.jpg
48.17KB


Mext up: Republic at full speed!

Writing is traded to Russia (the only AI I know so far, but that's what you get when you don't explore...) for the Wheel en 70 gold. There are no horses nearby... :( But I spent some gold establishing an embassy in Moscow:

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/darkness/2005228195421_Moscow.jpg
124.74KB


This is my teritory

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/darkness/2005228195559_Dutch teritory.jpg
183.44KB


And finally, the demographics, which I lead in vritually all categories...

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/darkness/2005228195743_Demographics.jpg
140.11KB

[Grille]

Quite an amazing opening, the Dark Dutchies turn their caravans into settlements really fast.[goodjob]

[akots]

The only drawback is that it is purely a farmers gambit. And if by chance Killer has a warrior passing around, that would be the most unfortunate outcome. A good opening for GOTM but tremendously risky against a human opponent unless you sure he is far away. I've got rid from Krys in a MP game on around turn 25 just because he did not have units defending the capital. I'm also paying for not building early military in a few other PBEM but they are mostly human only and might be if there is a good AI buffer, it is OK.

[Pastorius]

Yeah, Killer is probably the most persistant warmonger @ CDZ. Your adrenaline level must be skyhigh :D

[Darkness]

My adrenaline levels are just fine, thank you... :)
I agree, Killer is a very persistant warmonger, but he probably can't reach me now...

This is a continents map, so Killer and I are probably on seperate continents. IMHO there is no risk of Killer landing on my doorstep real soon. Off course I am just assuming things here, but I've read some spoilers here on CDZ and when it's a continents map both humans are almost always on different landmasses, and mapmaking has not yet been discovered so a naval landing is some time in the future as well.

I'd never dare to play so close to a farmers gambit if there were more human opponents in this game (then I'd probably be archer rushing), but with only Killer and 6 AI it should be perfectly doable.

If, by any chance one of Killers explorers happens by, I will off course shift my builds to more military, but IMHO that would be a waste of resources at the moment. I do need some extra MP in The Hague though, to turn down the luxury slider a bit

[Darkness]

Turn 74:

The rise of the Dutch Republic:

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Darkness/2005428204032_Dutch Republic.JPG
204.07KB

That made my F11 look like this:

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Darkness/2005428204111_F11 Rep.JPG
142.85KB

I'll settle 3 more cities and then I'll begin my build-up to take out Russia (after I get their free tech, off course). :)

[Darkness]

Turn 85:

Killer just built the Great Library, but that won't be enough to save him though. I have finished expansion and I am now gearing up for war. The Russians will die first (and they'll trigger my GA by falling for my MW's)... :)

[Darkness]

After a fortnight at sea my brave sailors have fulfilled their destiny:

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Darkness/2005613171513_Ottocontact.JPG
100.84KB


And I am not impressed...

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Darkness/2005613171547_dumbosman.JPG
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[Darkness]

Turn 98

The time of peaceful Dutch expansion is at an end!

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Darkness/200585211612_98 Russia War.JPG
117.56KB



Main target achieved:

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Darkness/200585211647_98 GA.JPG
197.8KB

And I took three Russian cities too... :)

[Markstar]

Nice, very nice! [goodjob] Looks like it's going very well for you. :)

Don't know if I'd go for Education though. After all, it seems you have quite a lead on the AI so it seems unlikely they can keep up when you go after Cavalry (and if they could, they'd be trading with the others anyways and Killer would get those techs anyways).

[Darkness]

quote:Originally posted by Markstar


Don't know if I'd go for Education though. After all, it seems you have quite a lead on the AI so it seems unlikely they can keep up when you go after Cavalry (and if they could, they'd be trading with the others anyways and Killer would get those techs anyways).


Killer's got the Great Library, so if I can get that obsolete before he gets to much good techs (except monotheism, theology and education), I am sure to keep my advantage.
I already had a suicide galley make the trip across the ocean and I am scouting Killers continent, so I can pretty much decide when I want to obsolete the Great Library when I find him and the last AI, if I get education soon... :)

[Markstar]

Yes, I realize that. But the thing is, while you develop Monotheism, Theology and Education, Killer could develop Engineering, Feudalism and Invention. That means that even if you develop faster than him and he won't have all three, he'd still have a more or less comfortable gain on you (at least that's what I would do).

Otoh, if you go for Cavalry while being the strongest researcher, the AI *might* be at Chemistry by the time you have M.T. which gives you plenty of time to whipe him out. [evil]

[Darkness]

Sure, but Monotheism was for free (Byzantines free tech) and Russia has got feudalism (so I'll try to extort that for peace when I've got her on her knees), so that leaves me quite within reach of chivalry, after I've got education. And that will give me time to tackle the Maya, who have the rest of the good wonders (Pyramids, Hanging Gardens)...
Besides, to whipe Killer out, I'll need education anyway, 'cause he's across the ocean, paired of with a group of very dumb AI (as they are all still in the AA, including the Ottomans, who lack three required AA techs). Now if Killer were already in the MA, I think he would've gifted the Ottomans there as wel, to get their free tech. So, I think my continent is much more advanced than his, and that there is very little risk of Killer speeding towards Invention. :)

[Darkness]

Turn 109

quote:Originally posted by Darkness

Russia has got feudalism (so I'll try to extort that for peace when I've got her on her knees)


Russia apparently traded feudalism to the Byzantines, because I was able to trade theology to the Byzantines for Feudalism during my war with Russia.
The result:

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Darkness/200582420472_108 Russia dead.JPG
198.3KB


The Byzantines are next, while I speed to invention (I've just started a nice Leo's prebuild, and I got education one turn ago). After invention I'll decide whether it'll be chivalry or military tradition... My MW will do as much damage as they can. The Byzantines will die easily, but the Maya are the strongest AI in the game. They have the Pyramids though, so their death-warrant is already signed and sealed...[fdevil][devil]

[Beam]

Looks nice going Darkness! At emperor and with your playing skills the Maya shouldn't be much of an issue. You even could consider to keep'm as a pet civ.

[Darkness]

quote:Originally posted by Beam

Looks nice going Darkness! At emperor and with your playing skills the Maya shouldn't be much of an issue. You even could consider to keep'm as a pet civ.


No, they have to die. My continent is much more advanced than Killers, so if I can clear it before Killer meets any of "my" AI, then his Great Library will not be worth much, because then I am the only one with the advanced techs and then I can obsolete the Great Library whenever I want. [estwing]

[Darkness]

Turn 117

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Darkness/2005921194434_117 Byzantines die.JPG
184.58KB

:D

Unfortunately my GA ends next turn. :(

Killer also started making his move, at least that's what he said in his email. I hope to attack the Maya soon and after I kill them, I'll start making preparations to cross the ocean with knights or cavalries...

[ProPain]

With the distance between your continents suicide galleys are the only way for Killer to discover you. Very unlikely he'll put troops on those so if you clear out the Mayans coastal cities first you alrdy reduced the chance of killer making contact with them

[Darkness]

Turn 133

Killer and I met a few turns ago, and we make a peace-deal with a 15-turn period before hostilities can start after the treaty is cancelled.

Killer just cancelled it... [???]

The good news:

Killers Great Library has been obsoleted. He's still a few techs behind. :)

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Darkness/20051014174120_133 Leos.JPG
115.42KB

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Darkness/20051014174349_133 stack.JPG
175.35KB

Miltary tradition will be available in four turns... [cool]

And the demographics:

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Darkness/20051014174529_133 F11.JPG
146.02KB

Killer's in his GA, so he's leading in MFG....

[Beam]

Well planned Leo! Where is Killer techwise?

[Darkness]

quote:Originally posted by Beam

Well planned Leo! Where is Killer techwise?


Unfortunately he used his GA quite well. He used it to build the Great Lighthouse, and made a crossing immediately and he met the Maya... :(
So he's a bit further than I had hoped. He's got education and gunpowder.
I've still got astronomy, chemistry and metallurgy over him.