PBEM against OPD **SPOILER**

[akots]

We have started awhile ago the game with 2 humans on a tiny map on Emperor difficulty. I chose Celts and OPD is Zulu. We played 10 or 12 turns and OPD stopped playing for over a month giving no explanation. I thought the game is dead and e-mailed to him the "final offer" (play or leave so that map can be used again) but OPD suddenly showed up and now it is moving. Still slowly, about 3-4 turns/week but steadily. We are now at turn 32 and here is the situation:

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/akots/2004101241417_vsOPD-t32.JPG
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Beam, who made the map, apparently messed up a lot with barbarians. I have spotted barbarian spearman and OPD saw barbarian settler (2 free workers for him and pain in the neck for me). I'm researching Alphabet and going to "usual" Philo gambit here while building Granaries and settlers.

[akots]

We are on turn 102 now. Game is progressing well except one thing. But first, lets focus on good and postpone the bad.

Zulu (OPD) is really backwards people. Here is the Diplo screen. They have not even researched Alphabet and are not going to do it apparently.

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/akots/200412944739_OPD-102-Diplo.JPG
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Celtic people are on the contrary, very advanced. Even built the Pyramids and Forbidden Palace already. Some Gallic hotheads have landed in Zulu core and are rampaging there all around the place. Zulu are trying to conterattack with horsemen. There has been a rumor of a great Cetlic leader rising from the ranks of heroic swordsmen but the said leader has been ruthlessly impaled on Zulu pikes. Shit!

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/akots/200412945035_OPD-102-Zulu.JPG
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And this is gorgeous Celtic core, all beautiful and good. Well, evil Zhaka apparently also put an eye on it.

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/akots/200412945220_OPD-102-Core.JPG
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And finally, here is the bad news. The nes is so bad, don't even know how to tell them. Well, first comes the picture.

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/akots/20041294541_OPD-102-Shit.JPG
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Then some comments. Actually, there is little to comment because at the red cross spot there is a stack of Zulu units, which is a rather big stack. I would even say the stack is so big that I cannot sleep normally for 2 days already since I discovered it. It has about 50 horsemen (upgraded from chariots apparently) and about 20 Impi (half vet - half elites).

[cry]

[help]

[wallbash]

It is about 7 turns away from the core. What to do? What if the stack splits? What if they do not storm cities but just go pillaging over the countryside? What if they all go for the capital? It is insane number of units which obviously neither can be blocked nor easily slaughtered. I have about 20 or so GS and can build spears every turn in the capital and Alesia. But no pikes yet (about 16 turns to them, too late). GS are rather overpriced and they suck against Impi. Terrain allows the Zulu SOD to move through mountains/hills. Shit.
????WHAT TO DO????
????How can I survive????

[Rik Meleet]

Wow ...

Scorched earth tactics, combined with hit and run.
Use your big gpt to cashrush units. Focus on GS's and use them to strike and run away on roads. Lure the zulu away from the high grounds onto lowland killing zones. Use cats in cities and build fort(resse)s on high lands where your GS's strike from and return to. Horses and impi do have a lower defense value than your GS strike value; while fortified spears are at least equal to the strike value of horses.
Try to make it a war of attrition. Your core is close so your troops are healed quicker and get to the battle zone quicker.

But most importantly: pray for RNG-luck.

[anarres]

Well, I guess you want to get cash for rushing - make sure to part-rush where you get 5 or 10 shields per turn. ;)

[Kemal]

Hmm, also considering the fact that opd knows you know of the stack, could it be that the Zulu stack would move to Verulanium instead of any of the other indicated directions, since that is as easily reachable as Curovernum (4 turns) and closer to the Celtic core...?
Perhaps you could block that path using your GS by putting them on the mountain 3N of Verulanium, where attacking them would be folly with 2 vs 4.5 (if there is time to fortify) and possible promotions factored in, where they can also have a good view of the Zulu stack, and are able to retreat to the Celtic core faster than the Zulu stack can reach it.

Hopefully, the Zulu will go for Curovernum then, which would buy you some more turns, or split up which might make a hit and run tactic on the most threatening/worst defended of the stacks a possibility...?

[akots]

Well, don't really know where they are heading. The most devastating move would be right straight to the core. There is no way I can stop them from moving and may try to weaken a bit if they decide to attack a city. But they can just move in somewhere in between Camulodunum, Entremont and Alesia threatening the 3 cities at once. The horsemen are backed up with "a few" Impi (20+) which will absorb all damage. And to defend a city against 50+ horsemen, rough estimate gives something like 25+spearmen. Even with cash-rushing this number is not practical in such a short time.

I was thinking of revolting back to Despotism (during Golden Age) and whipping all cities down to 1 pop. This may give some units and decrease support burden. Another move would be to disconnect iron, build some warriors in 10spt cities and upgrade as many of them as possible. Time is short but this might work. It should give about 10 or so GS in a few turns. Well, 10 is obviously not enough. It all looks very grave to me. I'm thinking of resigning the game in a few turns. Still hope they split the stack and some units will come east. There are 2 luxuries there, but it it OK, no threat to survival. Then, if the stack is split, it might be possible to weaken it and slow down a bit.

[Pastorius]

This is why PBEM is fun. You have your men going abroad, and then the other player comes along with a hugeass stack and fuck you up real good. Good luck man, you're gonna need it

[Beam]

Tough situation akots, best advice I can give is to consider actions with immediate effect vs. more powerful actions taking time. Hard call.

[Grille]

I'd go for disconnecting iron/upgrading warrior->GS option (no revolt!, surely run max tax possible) plus rushing units.
Do have still stuff in/near Zululand to annoy OPD?
If the GS shown in the pics are still there, I'd suggest to cripple his trade network meanwhile.

[akots]

Next turn 103 has been played. All my GSs in the Zulu territory were slaughtered apparently by horsemen (no account has been presented on the battle). Stack is still advancing. All builds switched to military. But lots of shields are wasted since two cities are on 25+ shields and the rest is on 12-15+ shields per turn.

[akots]

We have played a few turns. I've been rushing spearmen and Gallic guys like crazy all over the place. The stack has advanced and Zulu captured the town of Isca (bottom right corner of the last screenie. But lost about 10 horsemen (which were left exposed) in the process whereas I lost only 2 spearmen. Good news is that militaries are now average according to F3. It would be probably a matter of devastation since Zulu will pillage all over the place but no threat to survival. However, war weariness is kicking in already and it is possible I will lose Camulodunum next turn, so luxury rate increased to 30% in anticipation of this.

This game actually is a pure battle of concepts. Will crude force and all-or-nothing military buildup be able to beat research and granaries? Well, not sure about it, it is complicated. Also, his stack is left without reinforcements. He is not splitting it yet, but it has lost some firepower. Eventually I hope it will be possible to wear it down. However, researching Monarchy and revolting is a top priority. Republic has been a poor choice for this kind of game with many fierce battles. Good we are not playing MP ladder elimination game.

[akots]

We have played three very intense turns. Zulu managed to capture Camulodunum indeed and from there they were able to threaten Alesia which had Forbidden Palace in it as well as some other good improvements. On the other hand they also were within the range to assault the capital, Entremont. Which had Pyramids and was making 40 shields per turn. So, I left Alesia rather lightly defended and focus on the defense of the capital. ODP was tempted by that and captured Alesia. He should have razed the city instead. Because the remnant of his huge SOD included 10 Impi and 13 horsemen, all units wounded and most redlined. So, heroic Celtic swordsmen recaptured Alesia and killed all Zulu invaders in the process. As a result of these actions, Celtic army is now stronger than Zulu, population is about 2-times more, two techs away from Middle Ages, 3-times Zulu territory and OPD does not even know Alphabet. He might be in the process of building another stack of units but they would apparently have to face pikemen and knights. War weariness is huge, so first this is getting to Monarchy. Should not take longer than 10 turns.

Actually, it was a very close call and if Zulu focused on Entremont instead and pillaging it could have had more devastating effect. However, no big threat to survival. But I lost two very productive cities near the core. However, the game might be decided rather soon since Zulu are really very-very far behind.

[Rik Meleet]

I'm glad you continued the game and didn't give up. Is it "game in hand" now ?

[Pastorius]

a game in hand is better than Beam's game in the bush :D




















(if you didnt get it,see a screenshot of his game resource...)

[akots]

OPD wrote he does not want to continue. I wrote back asking if he is resigning. Waiting for reply.

[grahamiam]

how many GS's did you actually rush to knock out that SoD?

nice job, btw :)

[akots]

Had more or less steady numbers of GS during the past 4 turns which was around 35. I tried to keep them non-fortified while defending so that spears absorbed most of the damage during the first attacks. Then, surviving GS were able to easily finished horsemen which retreated from spears. But OPD apparently tried to avoid attacking cities which had GS on top. Apparently he became desperate in the end and started attacking with Impi which did a rather good job finishing my redlined units in Alesia.

[Hygro]

so how does it all end?

[akots]

OPD resigned on the same turn as Alesia was recaptured and invasion force eliminated. Zulu did not even research Alphabet, all went to unit support. You can read OPD's spoiler as well. I can post a few screenies if there is interest, just let me know.

[Rik Meleet]

If it's not too much trouble, please post those screenies. I love pictures.

[akots]

OK, a few more screenies from old saves.

Here is the sceme of advance of Zulu SOD starting from turn 105. Red shows actualy movements of the main force which captured Isca, Camulodunum (abandoned by Zulu) and Alesia. Blue lines show possible deviations of the stack.

The stack has been followed by Gallics and periodically attacked to weaken the impi covering horsemen. There was not a single turn break so not to allow the stack to heal, it was always threatened by a formidable force of Gallics scattered around.



http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/akots/20054272018_akvopdt105-stackpath.JPG
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This is the last turn 111 of the game when Alesia was captured and recaptured. The battle was a close call but it would not have changed anything since Zulu had only a couple of impi/horsemen left in any case in Celtic lands which were not a serious threat. Fortunately, the capture of Alesia was anticipated and the capital rioted in the interturn, so I was able to browse cities and rush two more Gallics which proved to be enough to recapture the city.



http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/akots/20054272418_akvopdt111-ak.JPG
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Here is the diplo screen with all the techs that Zulu are missing :


http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/akots/20054272743_akvopdt111-ak-diplo.JPG
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And a powergraph:


http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/akots/20054272821_akvopdt111-ak-F11.JPG
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And F3 screen with troops remaining alive after the massacre. Must note it was a slaughter both ways, many Celtic units died in the process. Impi is a very strong unit, probably one of the best in the Ancient Age.

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/akots/20054272957_akvopdt111-ak-F3.JPG
63.62KB

I tried to contact OPD asking if I can show the pictures of his Empire but he did not reply to my e-mail, so I apologize for showing them although he did not update his spoiler.
This is the Zulu point of view on turn 111:



http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/akots/20054273149_akvopdt111-opd.JPG
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And F3 screen for Zulu:



http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/akots/20054273217_akvopdt111-opd-F3.JPG
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[Hygro]

so what seemed like an impossible battle in terms of numbers was actually won, correct? Congratulations.