Fall of Rome

[Arghis]

What about making a game of this scenario (from Conquest) ? anybody ready to play a barbarian race ?

By the way, who has tried this one ? any comments ?

[akots]

It is fun, I played in RBC SG series as Vandals and Western Rome both on Demi-God. For details you can check RBC Conquest SG discussion series thread. But not suited for MP IMHO.

[Arghis]

hmmm, what is RBC SG ?

[akots]

http://realmsbeyond.net/civ/succession.html

IIRC, it was RBC12 series and played at CFC. There are links on that page. SG - succession game.

[Arghis]

@Akots : Why does it seems not suited to MP ? Perhaps we could adapt it ?

[akots]

May be some adaptation can help. But I don't see how since this would turn basically into a game of many human players aganst a poor AI. Who will slaughter AI first... Not attractive for me personally but this is my humble opinion.

On the other hand, the game is short and rather intense which is a great plus. Also, the barbarian civs are not balanced. Hunns are too far away, Celts are overpowered since nobody can normally land in Britain, Visigoths are underpowered and early cornered by Rome and other barbarians, Osrogoths can have problems hooking up iron, and Sassanids are way overpowered. There is also a huge room for exploits like giving Rome cities and then taking them back. But really, don't know.

[Matrix]

Suited or not suited, I'd like to play it. :)

I have played it SP as the Celts. I had to get used to the elimination idea (if eight of your cities are conquered, you're out) and built a lot of cities and occupied a lot of victory point locations. But then I didn't dare tao attack anyone, because then they'd attack me. So that's the tough part: you should only build cities you can hold. That means a lof or victory point locations will remain empty, when they're far away of everyone.

[Beam]

Looks like a Middle Age gorefest so I'm in ;)

Like to have a peek at the Scenario before choosing a Civ, OK with that?

[Matrix]

Of course! Otherwise those who have would have a huge advantage!

[Arghis]

ok

So now we're three. Beam, Matrix, and myself.

As Akots says, the goal can be resume to : Who will kill AI first (unless we gave Romans to someone, which could lead to an interesting situation ...)

First question : How many players ? There are 8 playable civ. So 8 guys would be fun, but would make the game longer ... Sassanids (Persian empire) are a special case.


2nd question : How to modify this game ? Beginning with Embassies, so we don't have to wait too long ... (in history, Rome had made many alliances with barbarians ...) ? Adding Spy missions (which could be activated by using a small wonder at the tech level "Barbarian Leadership" - where there is Scourge of God GW) ? Equilibrating start position (i shall look at it a bit to better see) ? Adding units (scouts, even if not fantastic in civ3 are very useful ; ...) ?

I think we'd better modify this game to better enjoy it. I don't want redoing completely this scenario, understand me, just add / correct it.

[akots]

To make Rome playable, you can take a look at the CFC thread:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=80490 - Western Rome different scenario

Actually, the higher the difficulty, the easier the game is. The easiest variant SP is Deity or Sid for Celts and Sassanids.

And here are other RBC threads:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=78833 Franks Deity
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=80447 Eastern Rome different scenario
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=78853 Celts Sid
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=78857 Anglo-Sax DemiGod
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=78903 Huns Deity
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=78823 Visigoths Deity
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=78838 Sassanids Emperor
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=78829 Vandals DemiGod (my favorite)
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=78840 Ostrogoths DemiGod

[Arghis]

Here is what it looks like

Huns OB
=> Horseman : 15 ; Migrant : 12
O towns;
Surroundings : Horses, Furs, Iron, Cattle, Wheat, Games, Fish

The Huns start position is very fun. We can add roads to help him advancing. Or adding extra-worker ?

Celts OB
=> Workers : 6 ; Curragh : 3 ; Raiders : 8
6 towns; 2 barracks, 2 granary
Surroundings : Furs, Iron, horses, fish, cattle and wheat

Anglo-saxon OB
=> Workers : 3 ;Migrant : 7 ; Raiders : 7 ; Curragh : 3
1 town; with barracks, granary & temple
Surroundings : Furs, Horses, Cattle, Fish, Games, Wheat

Vandals OB
=> 3 workers ; 7 migrant ; 10 raiders
O towns;
Surroundings : Furs, Horses, Iron, Games, Cattle, Wheat, Fish

Visigoths OB
=> 3 workers ; 7 Migrants ; 10 raiders
0 towns;
Surroundings : Iron, Gold, Silver, Horses, Games, Cattle (few)

Ostrogoths OB
=> 3 workers ; 7 migrants ; 10 raiders
0 towns;
Surroundings : Furs, Horses, Wheat, Cattle, Fish, Iron (not near)

Franks OB
=> 3 workers ; 7 migrants ; 9 Raiders ;
1 towns
Surroundings : Furs, Iron, Wines, Fish, Cattle, Wheat, Games

Side-notes :

there are barbs (burgondians & Alemanni) inside western rome domain, south of Franks.
there are barbs (berbers) in north africa.
there are arabs barbs south of persian empire.

trading wines with Rome shouldn't be that difficult until you conquerthe right spot.

there are some ivory, incense and gems in north africa;

Sassamids has easy access to Wines, Spices, Silks, Incense, Ivory, Iron, Horses,

[Arghis]

@Akots : interesting all this. at least now i know what is RBC. The scenario they are "strange"; i shall try one day. the Western rome variation seems interesting.

So, considering those "Orders of Battle", what do you think has to be changed to better equilibrate the beginning ? (for more precise datas, look with the ditor, or ask a precise question, i won't analyse every point of this scenario alone ...)

e.g. : It is easy to burden the sassamid with more common barbs for instance, or move some ressources away, so it takes more time / effort to catch ..

Side-notes - Units : The migrant is a kind of settler, which cost 20 shield and 1 pop (instead of 30 / 2 for common settler).

[Matrix]

I prefer no modifications. (But will accept it if you all want it (very much [tongue]).)

[Arghis]

i'm not for making big modifications; just, it's the good time to do it, after we're going in for a long time.

For instance, the main thing that i'd like to see is the possibility of having spy missions.

[Matrix]

I fear that wouldn't fit the scenario at all... http://www.straland.com/images/smilies/undecided.gif

[Arghis]

Well, i see that few people wants to modify games. No prob. Let's play it like it is. That's better than nothing :-)

[Arghis]

Of course it's not a perfect modification (civ3 spying system is rather clumsy), but it allows some variation. And i still can't imagine how you can go to war when you have no idea of what and where are opposing forces ...

Well, i see that few people wants to modify this game. No prob. Let's play it like it is. That's better than nothing :-)

[Arghis]

So we have Beam, Matrix, myself and perhaps Akots. Anybody else ?

[Justus II]

I'd be interested. For balance sake, if we're not going to mod it (and it looks like most don't want to) I'd recommend leaving the Sassinid, and maybe Huns, to the AI. Sassinids are far more powerful than the other 'barb' tribes, and Huns just start so far away, it takes them forever to get into the action. Just my thoughts.

[akots]

No, thanks, I don't plan to play this one. With a few other PBEMs started recently and considering "hanging" GOTMs I need to fihish, and the ISDG hassle, there is just no possibility for me to start new games atm.

Instead I would rather enjoy reading your spoilers for this one. :)

[Arghis]

Well, in this case it means that we're still 4 (Beam, Matrix, Justus II & myself). It's a good number or a game.

If we do not count Huns and Sassanidswhich seems rather logical to me, it means we can choose amongst those :

Celts OB
=> Workers : 6 ; Curragh : 3 ; Raiders : 8 ; 6 towns; 2 barracks, 2 granary ; Surroundings : Furs, Iron, horses, fish, cattle and wheat

Vandals OB
=> 3 workers ; 7 migrant ; 10 raiders ; O towns; Surroundings : Furs, Horses, Iron, Games, Cattle, Wheat, Fish

Visigoths OB
=> 3 workers ; 7 Migrants ; 10 raiders ; 0 towns; Surroundings : Iron, Gold, Silver, Horses, Games, Cattle (few)

Franks OB
=> 3 workers ; 7 migrants ; 9 Raiders ; 1 towns ; Surroundings : Furs, Iron, Wines, Fish, Cattle, Wheat, Games

Ostrogoths OB (not in original MP scenario)
=> 3 workers ; 7 migrants ; 10 raiders ; 0 towns; Surroundings : Furs, Horses, Wheat, Cattle, Fish, Iron (not near)

Anglo-saxon OB (not in original MP scenario)
=> Workers : 3 ;Migrant : 7 ; Raiders : 7 ; Curragh : 3 ; 1 town; with barracks, granary & temple ; Surroundings : Furs, Horses, Cattle, Fish, Games, Wheat

So if you don't want to modify this game, the choice for nations is now clear.

Celts are a bit far away from other nations, unless for Rome;

As usual, the map seems rather empty with so few people. At least there is some Burgondians and Allemani barbarians.

[Justus II]

Too bad the Anglo-Saxons aren't in the MP, they would be a better comparison than the Celts, but either way is fine with me. I've played this as Vandals before, so I'd like to try something different, Celts or Franks would be fine.

[romeothemonk]

Hey guys. If you are looking for another player, sign me up. No real preference as to the race, but I was able to win on Sid with the Celts by myself. (I would prefer not to be the Celts or the Sassanids). I would also reccomend a very high AI level.