View Full Version : PP vs Stapel ** spoiler **
Started a game against Stapel. We both play the dutch.
demigod level, small map size, archi
first moves
Killer made the map and he gave me a great starting position. Safe to say Stapel got the same.
I decide to settle on the spot and go curragh. It's an archi map, so little chance of barbs, and early contacts can make all the difference. I decide to go curragh, warrior (explore island and mp), settler, curragh. Map Making is most important I guess, because galleys are needed to transport myself to other islands. SO I start writing on max. Guess stapel will do the same as he started downloading tech calc and all.
Stapel moves before settling, a pity as now I cant follow his cap in the f11 screen. After Eindhoven (my capital) grows to 2 I get civil disorder. [aargh] I need to pay more attention.
My second city is founded NE of Eindhoven and I dub it Uden. Uden starts a curragh.
voyage of discovery
My first galley sails around my southern tip and discovers lots of flood plains. My warrior also discovers lots more food, luxes and gold hills. Thank you killer. I move around my island and when the contours are clear I move east.
turn 16 - Meet the Portuguese, they have BW but wont trade.
turn 21 - Meet Carthage and see Persian border with 2nd galley.
turn 22 - meet Persia : Give Xerxes alpha for BW, Masonry and 10 gold
Trade masonry to Portugal for WC + 10 gold
Turn 23 - I meet mr. Stapel, he's 3 techs behind: BW, WC, masonry.
I dont tell stapel I met him, but he notices anyway. I ask him if he wants to trade techs but he says he doesnt own any techs I dont own.
Turn 28 - Meet Byzzie, good that's everybody! Theodora has the wheel, which is very good. Before that only the portuguese had it and they refused to sell. Buy the wheel + 10 gold for masonry. Try to get IW for it from PErsia but they want TW, Masonry, 6gpt and 40 gold. That would effectively lock down my research and give stapel a writing mono. I refuse
Turn 29 : Theodora also has IW. Suddenly Persia is willing to sell IW for the wheel and pottery. Nice.
I start sailing around Stapels island, it's exactly like mine. His cult borders tell me he settled his capital on a gold hill. He's doing a writing gambit for sure.
turn 31
I found my 3rd city on a gold hill. Writing research costs drop from 9 to 6 turns. I havent really tried to figure out how long stapel has to go on writing but he has only 2 cities, slower growth but more roads in place and he settled his capital on a gold hill. I think he's gonna make it. I just hope he build MP to keep up research and slowed down on the curraghs. If he hasnt contacted everybody yet I can prolly ruin his trade by giving away writing the turn after he discovers it.
To be safe and take out all trade leverage I sell IW to Carthage for 10 gold and gift pottery to theodora. Everybody has BW, IW, WC, Masonry and the wheel over Stapel now. Even if he makes it to writing first I hope his slightly slower growth will prevent him from researching other techs first.
turn 32
Stapel has writing, and sells it around. He offers it to me for maths or CB. Apart from the fact that I dont have those techs I politely refuse. Costs must drop considerably anyway. When I open the safe, my scientists have discovered writing for me! very nice. Off course stapel is tech par now and all AI except persia and the byzzies own writing now.
I;m not sure if stapel doesnt know them or just didnt wanna gift a tech.
Got a minimap PP, this one looks nice to follow?
screenies will be here tomorrow!
it seems that CDZ refuses access to me every time I try to upload.
But finally it worked:
minimap
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/ProPain/20049109326_54minimap.jpg
87.85*KB
My empire
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/ProPain/200491093355_54PP.jpg
104.59*KB
Stapels empire
Find the 10 differences.
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/ProPain/200491094548_54stapel.jpg
81.03*KB
Obviously we have copied starts.
After the initial race for writing that was won by Stapel I decided to go for lit instead of philo. My guess was that the AI would most certainly pursue other techs than lit and I hoped Stapel would do so to. That would give me a fair shot at lit @ mono.
My scouting curragh also revealed Stapel is in expansion mode. As you can see in the minimap (turn 54) his army is average to my sorry ass 'army'. I decided to gamble: go lit, keep it, go great lib, save up build horsemen and aim for mass horsie - knight upgrade.
Not quite sure who'll be on the receiving end of the knights, but if all works out I might aim for Stapel right away.
I reached lit a few turns ago (5-10 iirc) but have not traded it and I'm building the great lighthouse as a great lib prebuild. Before that I had been building a rax as prebuild also. I'n not building the great lib to conceal my plans to Stapel. He cant see I have lit, from the diplo screen so as long as the wonder screen doesnt show a GLib under construction he only can discover it using the TechCalc (which he has been doing for writing though)
For now I aim to improve my tiles asap and grow Eindhoven as quick as possible. I'm sacrificing my expansion a bit for this. The southern flood plains city will be turned in a settler/worker fac but it will take a while to get this online, I hope the great lib and the army will make up for this pointy stick wise later.
Not sure it is a smart gamble though :)
I notice you're building barracks in Valkenswaard, while still having some unclaimed land in your empire.. I was wondering is there a special reason like a war in the near future for that? Or are you going for OCP instead a more dense build?
edit: oops, sorry should have read your post better I guess, as you've answered the question more or less already. :)
The pace is blistering, I sent turn 89 to Stapel today.
state of the world
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/ProPain/200491115426_88empire.jpg
165.3*KB
I finished the great lib, Stapel missed a heap of wonder pyras being the last in the cascade, he claimed he was only a turn away. Apparently there's a gold rimmed colloseum in Ommen now. He wanted to buy feuda from me to save the prebuild, so I didnt sell.
I;m a republic and generating more food than my people can eat or turn into usefull shields so I;m gonna mine some of the plains.
Portuguese beat me to the western island just 1 turn after I made a 10gpt deal with them [grrr] Dont wanna ruin my rep.
I;m building horsies and galleys now. Stapel is behind monarchy, feuda and egineering. I;m patiently waiting for mono and chiv :)
Mass upgrade and see who'll be on the receiving end. Maybe I'll detour portugal on my way to Stapel.Few more cities would be nice for unit support.
Stapel is still in despotisme .... I was amazed he didnt go into anarchy after his prebuild busted. His army is strong compared to me but that's mostly his swordies (3 attack)
I've build embassies in all capitals. Screenies from Stapels cities.
turn 72-Stapelburg (capital)
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/ProPain/2004911151511_72stapelburg.jpg
252.29*KB
turn 86-Sardica
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/ProPain/200491203630_87sardica.jpg
213.81*KB
Hmm, one wonders why there's a tax collector in Sardica, with two swords doing MP duty... could Stapel have (massively) poprushed there already?
He conquered sardica from the Byzies. I think they did the poprushing, but I didnt actually see it myself. Other possiblity is that the initial 'we hate you cause our motherlands is at war with you' unhappiness required this and Stapel forgot to readjust after peace.
turn 92
Stapel went in anarchy in turn 91, same turn my army was average again. I have about 7 horsies, 3 warriors, 2 galleys, 1 curragh so not much.
Lt. Killer M
13-09-2004, 18:17
wow, I was a bit afraid the map would favour stapel's way of playing, or the Ais would get far ahead on you two in tech, but it looks like stapel is keeping uü rather nicely, too!
I'll be watching this intently when you go on the attack :)
90 bc Empire
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/ProPain/200492018317_90bcemp.jpg
300.46*KB
the next steps
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/ProPain/2004920181030_90bcwarzone.jpg
191.86*KB
the minimap
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/ProPain/2004920182932_90bcminimap.jpg
28.02KB
My original plan got screwed up because the AI failed to research mono. Stapel got a monopoly on monotheism and theology and basically traded himself back in the tech tree. So I researched chivalry myself straight after mono was available, but attacking stapel with knights seemed a bit too dangerous now. Even though my 20 horsemen army was strong compared to him and had been since 13 horsemen only.
Decided to pick of the portugese first. Ready with that now. Stapel is attacking the Carthaginians, weird choice, they have NuMercs and the Statue of Zeus. But to everyone his own I guess.
I'm gonna attack the Persian colonies Xerxes took from portugal first, I can really use the unit support! I',m researching towards Mil Trad. and hope to upgrade and attack with cavs. I now have 23 knights, Should be able to scrape together 40 quickly if I disconnect the iron and build some horsemen. After mil. trad I can shut down research and save up for upgrading.
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Beam/2005414222127_az_portal_logo.gif
1.1KB
Melifluous
15-04-2005, 00:48
doctor
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