View Full Version : Need help with Chemists!!!
I've also decided to join and got some wicked Texan Chemists. What shoud I do with the team? Is there anything I can do?
There is a match coming on 23rd! Please, help to survive!!!
Your 18 players
Duane Henley
TSI = 0 , 48 years, inadequate form
Has excellent experience and inadequate leadership abilities [Unpredictable]
Stamina: wretched Keeper: wretched
Playmaking: wretched Passing: disastrous
Winger: disastrous Defending: disastrous
Scoring: wretched Set Pieces: weak
Dave Fugate
TSI = 640 , 25 years, passable form
Has poor experience and solid leadership abilities
Stamina: wretched Keeper: weak
Playmaking: disastrous Passing: disastrous
Winger: wretched Defending: disastrous
Scoring: disastrous Set Pieces: inadequate
Marcos Hammond
TSI = 850 , 26 years, inadequate form
Has poor experience and poor leadership abilities [Quick]
Stamina: inadequate Keeper: wretched
Playmaking: poor Passing: passable
Winger: passable Defending: weak
Scoring: inadequate Set Pieces: passable
Javier Robitaille
TSI = 670 , 23 years, inadequate form
Has poor experience and weak leadership abilities
Stamina: inadequate Keeper: wretched
Playmaking: passable Passing: weak
Winger: inadequate Defending: poor
Scoring: weak Set Pieces: disastrous
Eugene Norris
TSI = 510 , 25 years, weak form
Has poor experience and weak leadership abilities [Powerful]
Stamina: solid Keeper: wretched
Playmaking: poor Passing: weak
Winger: wretched Defending: passable
Scoring: inadequate Set Pieces: solid
Gary Ochoa
TSI = 340 , 28 years, poor form
Has poor experience and poor leadership abilities
Stamina: weak Keeper: disastrous
Playmaking: passable Passing: weak
Winger: poor Defending: weak
Scoring: inadequate Set Pieces: disastrous
Burt Parker
TSI = 320 , 23 years, inadequate form
Has poor experience and wretched leadership abilities [Head]
Stamina: passable Keeper: wretched
Playmaking: wretched Passing: poor
Winger: inadequate Defending: inadequate
Scoring: inadequate Set Pieces: weak
Mitch Woodward
TSI = 290 , 26 years, inadequate form
Has poor experience and weak leadership abilities
Stamina: poor Keeper: disastrous
Playmaking: poor Passing: inadequate
Winger: weak Defending: inadequate
Scoring: weak Set Pieces: inadequate
Johnie Hollins
TSI = 480 , 26 years, poor form
Has poor experience and weak leadership abilities
Stamina: passable Keeper: disastrous
Playmaking: poor Passing: poor
Winger: weak Defending: weak
Scoring: solid Set Pieces: solid
Rich Dobbins
TSI = 550 , 29 years, inadequate form
Has wretched experience and weak leadership abilities
Stamina: solid Keeper: disastrous
Playmaking: weak Passing: weak
Winger: passable Defending: inadequate
Scoring: poor Set Pieces: disastrous
Erik Paine
TSI = 200 , 24 years, wretched form
Has poor experience and wretched leadership abilities
Stamina: weak Keeper: wretched
Playmaking: poor Passing: inadequate
Winger: wretched Defending: inadequate
Scoring: weak Set Pieces: wretched
Eustaquio Ordońez
TSI = 420 , 28 years, passable form
Has poor experience and solid leadership abilities
Stamina: weak Keeper: wretched
Playmaking: poor Passing: passable
Winger: weak Defending: weak
Scoring: weak Set Pieces: inadequate
Clifton Wall
TSI = 190 , 29 years, poor form
Has poor experience and weak leadership abilities
Stamina: poor Keeper: disastrous
Playmaking: inadequate Passing: disastrous
Winger: passable Defending: weak
Scoring: weak Set Pieces: inadequate
Mark Patton
TSI = 490 , 29 years, weak form
Has weak experience and poor leadership abilities
Stamina: solid Keeper: disastrous
Playmaking: weak Passing: weak
Winger: inadequate Defending: wretched
Scoring: passable Set Pieces: solid
Randall Cochran
TSI = 400 , 23 years, passable form
Has wretched experience and poor leadership abilities [Unpredictable]
Stamina: inadequate Keeper: disastrous
Playmaking: weak Passing: passable
Winger: weak Defending: weak
Scoring: wretched Set Pieces: disastrous
Randall Barkley
TSI = 150 , 20 years, weak form
Has disastrous experience and weak leadership abilities [Unpredictable]
Stamina: disastrous Keeper: wretched
Playmaking: weak Passing: weak
Winger: poor Defending: inadequate
Scoring: inadequate Set Pieces: passable
Iván Carmona
TSI = 140 , 24 years, wretched form
Has poor experience and poor leadership abilities
Stamina: passable Keeper: wretched
Playmaking: poor Passing: passable
Winger: poor Defending: poor
Scoring: poor Set Pieces: inadequate
Chris Ball
TSI = 260 , 27 years, poor form
Has wretched experience and poor leadership abilities
Stamina: inadequate Keeper: wretched
Playmaking: wretched Passing: poor
Winger: inadequate Defending: inadequate
Scoring: weak Set Pieces: poor
Training
Training Level: 90%
Training Type: Playmaking
Coach: Duane Henley (since 8/20/2004)
Team Spirit: composed
Confidence: decent
Formation experience
4-3-3: weak
4-5-1: weak
3-5-2: weak
5-3-2: weak
3-4-3: weak
5-4-1: weak
Arena: Chemists Arena
Belongs to: Chemists
Country: USA
Region : Texas
Last improvement: 8/20/2004
Total capacity: 7000
Terraces: 5000
Basic seating: 2000
Seats under roof: 0
Seats in VIP boxes: 0
Economy
Cash funds: 300 000 US$ (300 000) US$
Sponsors: calm
Supporter Club: 500 members
Supporters: calm
Chemists (222940)
Country: USA
Region: Texas
Arena: Chemists Arena
Language: English
Series: # 6 in VI.132
Kingreno
21-08-2004, 18:02
Your starting squad is pretty balanced, that is good.
Basics:
Keeper needs Goalkeeping and just that
Defenders (4) need Defending
Wingers (2) need winger
Inner midfields (2) need Playmaking
Forwards (2) need scoring
You will learn that other skills are important as well, a lot can be learned through Hattrick.org itself. Also you should download a tool like HattrickOrganiser or Hattrickbuddy. These will rate your players to make it comprehensive!
Play 4-4-2 in the league (for now) and another (3-5-2 is a good bet) in friendlies (depending on what you will train later).
Set training to Stamina for 2 weeks, then one General. After that, deside what to train.
Specialists: Hire 2 spokepersons (3 is debatable) and 2 Physios (to prevent injuries), also hire some assistants (1 GK, 2 normal IMO).
Decide what to spend your money on AFTER you get the hang of it all. Do NOT buy a player yet. Wait a week or so. read up on some beginnertips, and this forum.
Thanks. Did like you said. This HO 1.24 if somewhat glitchy though. I'll hold the cash atm. Will fish for a decent central defender or may be even 2 and a keeper but the one which I have is possible to train with time. Judging on the match records, previous owner either had a bad set up or exceptionally bad luck because the team lost a few games at 0-6 against not so threatening opponents.
Kingreno
22-08-2004, 06:38
If you are going to train anyone in this squad I suggest trying to get Johnnie Hollins' Solid Scoring to Excellent (that is after training Stamina!). If you buy two trainnees (17 years old or 18 with good second skill) with passable scoring you are ready to train this skill. These should cost about 20k $ each (keep looking!).
As for previous results by this team, forget them, and try to survive!
akots, I've copied your team, but will not be able to answer until later today. For tomorrows game, you should play a 4-4-2 formation. I'll ellaborate later.
Yep, I've set something the best possible for today's game at 4-4-2. Fortunately, the opponent appears to be not so strong (#3 in the group IIRC) and I set to "play it cool", so may be draw is possible. I'd like to be more focused on training something beyond stamina, so apparently leaving on stamina for a couple of weeks may be OK? Also, pulled some jerk from the youth squad not worth even mentioning. I like the idea of training for scoring later on. Thanks a lot. :)
Since I'm 6th now, there is some chance to advance to 4th or may be even 3rd. I looked at the teams which are now 3rd and 4th and they are not much better.
Number 1 in the group is really a kick-off and obviously does not belong to the VIth league but at least IVth.
Actually, but I looked only on the US market, there are a plently of 17-18-19 year old cheap passable scoring transfers starting from 10K and even 5K. However, when it comes to solid scoring prices just jump to minimum 70K and maximum 3 million. Reasonable price for a forward with solid scoring and passable stamina can be around 200K. So, if I get 5 of these young guys, it can pay off at least their wages. The only bad thing is that then I should play something like 4-3-3 every game and hence would need a decent (at least solid) playmaker with some stamina which may cost a fortune (up to 200-300K). And still chances of good season outcome (#3 or #4) would be rather slim IMO. Is there anything can be done about it?
Shabbaman
22-08-2004, 10:09
4-3-3 is bad, if you want to train forwards you need to play 3-4-3.
You need to decide if you want performance from the first season bur maybe limp in the following ones or you want to sacrifice some games now, by not buying for other purposes than training, any player except for 1,000 USD. (generally inadequates but also some passable sell for that).
Training is actually efficient from skills above solid, hence the price increase.
I've lost the first game 2-4 mostly because of poor stamina. First half was 2-2 and second just a mess 0-2.
Not a bad squad at all! I agree with KR that training forwards is most sensible atm, you also have 20 year old Randall Barkley with inadequate scoring you can train. It will take a bit longer as he's only inad. but you got him for free.
You have a few players that are so crap that you can consider fireing them:
1) Randal Cochran
2) Ivan Carmona
3) Dave Fugate* (keeper, solid leader)
4) Eustaquio Ordonez * (solid leader)
Numbers 1 and 2 are just a burden on your salary expenses, nu,bers 3 and 4 deserve a second look because they have solid leadership, which is the highest in your squad. Solid leaders influence your Team Spirit (TS). Players who are well liked and have solid leadership make your TS drop less quickly. So take a look at them and if one of them is popular/sympathetic/pleasant dont fire him but keep him around as a clown. Especially if one is well liked and the other is not so well liked (nasty/controversial) make sure you fire the not well like one: When two players have equal high leadership one is chosenly randomly as squad leader. So the nasty guy might end up being your leader and that will make your TS deteriorate faster.
Might it turn out that you need to fire Dave Fugate (keeper) dont worry, you can get a slightly better keeper (inadequate) for 1000$.
Yep, must agree to that. I'll try to look for a cheap keeper and these 3 guys... looks like we would have to part soon.
Still waiting for Yndy's advice before rushing to do anything.
quote:
Dave Fugate - 'semi-clown' worth 5k on the market but useful to you too just to warm the bench and keep the team spirit up.
Marcos Hammond - winger pretty good - keep
TSI = 850 , 26 years, inadequate form
Has poor experience and poor leadership abilities [Quick]
Stamina: inadequate Keeper: wretched
Playmaking: poor Passing: passable
Winger: passable Defending: weak
Scoring: inadequate Set Pieces: passable
Javier Robitaille - playmaker pretty good - keep
TSI = 670 , 23 years, inadequate form
Has poor experience and weak leadership abilities
Stamina: inadequate Keeper: wretched
Playmaking: passable Passing: weak
Winger: inadequate Defending: poor
Scoring: weak Set Pieces: disastrous
Eugene Norris - defending - pretty good - keep
TSI = 510 , 25 years, weak form
Has poor experience and weak leadership abilities [Powerful]
Stamina: solid Keeper: wretched
Playmaking: poor Passing: weak
Winger: wretched Defending: passable
Scoring: inadequate Set Pieces: solid
Gary Ochoa - playmaking - not that god - keep
TSI = 340 , 28 years, poor form
Has poor experience and poor leadership abilities
Stamina: weak Keeper: disastrous
Playmaking: passable Passing: weak
Winger: poor Defending: weak
Scoring: inadequate Set Pieces: disastrous
Burt Parker - not good – reserve/ fire/ train scoring
TSI = 320 , 23 years, inadequate form
Has poor experience and wretched leadership abilities [Head]
Stamina: passable Keeper: wretched
Playmaking: wretched Passing: poor
Winger: inadequate Defending: inadequate
Scoring: inadequate Set Pieces: weak
Mitch Woodward - not good – reserve/ fire
TSI = 290 , 26 years, inadequate form
Has poor experience and weak leadership abilities
Stamina: poor Keeper: disastrous
Playmaking: poor Passing: inadequate
Winger: weak Defending: inadequate
Scoring: weak Set Pieces: inadequate
Johnie Hollins -GOOD one –train one level/sell
TSI = 480 , 26 years, poor form
Has poor experience and weak leadership abilities
Stamina: passable Keeper: disastrous
Playmaking: poor Passing: poor
Winger: weak Defending: weak
Scoring: solid Set Pieces: solid
Rich Dobbins – reserve/fire
TSI = 550 , 29 years, inadequate form
Has wretched experience and weak leadership abilities
Stamina: solid Keeper: disastrous
Playmaking: weak Passing: weak
Winger: passable Defending: inadequate
Scoring: poor Set Pieces: disastrous
Erik Paine - bad defender – reserve/fire
TSI = 200 , 24 years, wretched form
Has poor experience and wretched leadership abilities
Stamina: weak Keeper: wretched
Playmaking: poor Passing: inadequate
Winger: wretched Defending: inadequate
Scoring: weak Set Pieces: wretched
Eustaquio Ordońez - FIRE
TSI = 420 , 28 years, passable form
Has poor experience and solid leadership abilities
Stamina: weak Keeper: wretched
Playmaking: poor Passing: passable
Winger: weak Defending: weak
Scoring: weak Set Pieces: inadequate
Clifton Wall - bad winger – reserve/fire
TSI = 190 , 29 years, poor form
Has poor experience and weak leadership abilities
Stamina: poor Keeper: disastrous
Playmaking: inadequate Passing: disastrous
Winger: passable Defending: weak
Scoring: weak Set Pieces: inadequate
Mark Patton - good scoring – train/sell
TSI = 490 , 29 years, weak form
Has weak experience and poor leadership abilities
Stamina: solid Keeper: disastrous
Playmaking: weak Passing: weak
Winger: inadequate Defending: wretched
Scoring: passable Set Pieces: solid
Randall Cochran - FIRE
TSI = 400 , 23 years, passable form
Has wretched experience and poor leadership abilities [Unpredictable]
Stamina: inadequate Keeper: disastrous
Playmaking: weak Passing: passable
Winger: weak Defending: weak
Scoring: wretched Set Pieces: disastrous
Randall Barkley - bad defender/scorer - keep
TSI = 150 , 20 years, weak form
Has disastrous experience and weak leadership abilities [Unpredictable]
Stamina: disastrous Keeper: wretched
Playmaking: weak Passing: weak
Winger: poor Defending: inadequate
Scoring: inadequate Set Pieces: passable
Iván Carmona - FIRE
TSI = 140 , 24 years, wretched form
Has poor experience and poor leadership abilities
Stamina: passable Keeper: wretched
Playmaking: poor Passing: passable
Winger: poor Defending: poor
Scoring: poor Set Pieces: inadequate
Chris Ball - bad defender – reserve/fire
TSI = 260 , 27 years, poor form
Has wretched experience and poor leadership abilities
Stamina: inadequate Keeper: wretched
Playmaking: wretched Passing: poor
Winger: inadequate Defending: inadequate
Scoring: weak Set Pieces: poor
Well akots, it’s not a really good team that you have there. If you want to start training something it’s scoring but with a 26 years old and a 29 years old it may take to long. Alternatively you can sell Johnie Hollins and cash around 50k for him (list him at 40k). You can take the route I advised Kemal to go on or you can just skip and buy a solid coach with poor leadership and two 18 years old passable keepers and start training them. You’ll also need to hire like 4 goaltending coaches from ‘the club’ menu.
Thanks a lot. I guess I'll try a scoring route by trying to fish for passable youth. Should I have to keep that stupid Ordones guy in this case?
No, weak scoring is way below acceptable level. Inadequate level is barely acceptable to start with. Don't try to get youth players as they will be 99% crap until your youth school reaches passable level.
OK, I'll be looking for them on the market. Thanks.
Thins are going rather well for me. After losing the first game, the training was set to stamina and I bought 3 17-19 year old forwards with passable/solid scoring and no stamina. Second game was won 0-8 (!!!) and one of the newly acquired forwards scored a hattrick!!! Supporters went delirious after this and training for stamina worked very well. I now have 2 players with excellent stamina. I then went for a friendly with some team in the Vth league (#6 IIRC) and won there 2-6 (no hattrciks this time).
However, the next match is with #3 in the group. They play on counterattacks and looks like their team is improving greatly over the recent matches. I so far played with attack on wings because had 2 decent midfield offensive wingers. Would it be OK with them? My coach is offensive and they have all 4 passable defenders. I have looked for cheap young passable defenders (10K or below) and have found 3 of them which would be trained for stamina. So far, search for a keeper did not work, they are all above 30-50K and only passable.
The question is, can I survive that match on Sunday? If I can, then how to counter the counterattacks?
Well, things are not going that well. I thought you read my advices to Kemal about stamina training (now a little improved) http://www.ht-arena.com/Sticla/?page=kemal
It’s (almost) of no use to train forwards and defenders in stamina. You have to train playmakers in stamina to get money at resale.
Or you can buy two young goalkeepers that you can afford and train goaltending.
It’s of no use for your opponent to play counter-attack against you. Also it’s of no use for you to play Attack on the Wings while your side attack is as good as the central attack. Also try to play 3-5-2 in your friendlies to get experience in that very useful tactic.
Yes, and it is exactly what has been trained, i.e, I have 4 passable playmakers 2 of which are with excellent stamina and two more passable which can be excellent next week and I'm going to sell them all ASAP apparently but not sure when, before the end of season or after. They are not very young (23-26) and price can be about 25-35K for each. This might give me enough cash for a solid coach.
And I've read your article 2 or 3 times, it is a great idea. :) But what I don't like for the stamina gambit is just too much hassle on the transfer market. It is really very tedious. IMO, keeper training is still the best bet.
The problem is that I have 4 passable wingers (2 midfields, defender, and forward) atm and attacking coach. What else can I play?
Indeed, trying to play 3-5-2 is a must and I'm seeking for international friendlies to start.
I also thought, that counterattacking would be of little use for them. :)
But men, these things take time, at least 6 month to a year to get something useful either from your gambit, or youth squad or scoring training. I'm still thinking that if I can get around 600-700K by the end of this season (which would be a miracle), I would certainly go for young keepers trying to stockpile cash for 2-3 seasons.
Also wanted to ask, if someone can help. I know that the grades for scoring and other skills are indeed improving after training but still there is no ay to tell when the player jumps to a new level. When bying youth for training, as I understood, it would be better to buy not someone who was recently trained but just better someone who was not trained, like pooled from a decent youth squad in some other team. The question is, is there any way to know whether this particular youth is high passable or low passable after I bought it of before. H-Organizer does not know, may be there is some other utility?
The main problem is to tell whether actually training for scoring might bear some fruit before the season ends. Apparently, with that stupid coach I have (weak trainer) it would be really slow. However, if those ppls which have passable scoring might jump to solid eventually, profit can be staggering since they would be worth at least 100K each even without other skills.
Kingreno
05-09-2004, 10:35
There are some ways to tell if your newly bought player is "low" scoring or possibly "high" scoring. First you can send a message to his owner simply asking if he was promoted recently or was indeed a youthpull.
Secondly, you can check the line-up he plays in friendlies, if he playes 4-3-3 or 3-4-3 in them then it is a safe bet they have been training scoring. You are probably buying a promoted player then, which will take the full time to level up again. on the otehr hand, 5-3-2 or 5-4-1 will mean he is training defence, so no scoring. no 100% guarantee, but it gives you a clue.
As for "what will get me the profit". In general, you buy a player at level X and sell him at level X+Y for more money. The higher the X, the higher the profit. As you have just started, your X is Solid at a maximum and passable as a safer, but less profitable, choice. Solids are expensive (arround 100k for a main skill) but after 10 weeks on average you should get them to excellent, selling them for 250k+ (depending on second skills). The risk is that you probably have money for one or two solids only, so injury could spoil a lot of it.
Passable trainees are easier to get and a LOT cheaper. Look around and for around 10-20k you can get a passable scoring 17yr old, for more cash he might have a second skill like weak passing. Naturally, you can train these for two seasons, getting them to excellent as well, or sell them for 100k as they become solid.
All in all, I would suggest getting one solid and some passables, cash permitting. The passables will become your strikers in the future, while the solid should get to excellent and be sold.
You can't tell if a player is high or not in his skill. TSI gives and indication of the aggregate value of the player so the lower the TSI is, the lower the player. But TSI is influenced by all the other skills, so if it's high, there's a chance the player is high on his main skill but not sure.
It has been a draw, 1-1!!! The guy played 5-3-2 with counterattacks but had one weak wing. So, they scored first and then one of our wingers scored. Looks like passable winger + passable scorer is a sure bet against even a decent (for our stupid league) defence (2+ and 3 stars).
Also, the stadium has been full, all 7000 spectators came. What if I slightly expand it, would it give more income? I know it is costly and some performance is always required to attract the crowd which might be a tricky thing to achieve. I've made 67K this weak from crowd and sponsors spending around 30K which on average would leave me at around zero balance if I just do nothing.
I guess, at the present situation, best bet might be to train scoring and pray for the results to show up before the end of season. Next season though might be different depending on these results.
If you want to expand your stadium do it in large increments. Add at least 7000 more seats and make it 'optimum' (63% terraces, 25% seats, 10% covered seats, 2% VIP).
http://www.databased.at/hattrick/x-ray/index.asp?starter=arenasizer
I managed to get a crowd of 8735 at home against the team that is second to last in my league.
akots, in regard to training. As Yndy says there's no real possibility to say that when a player is gonna promote as TSI applies tp all skills. However you can see when a player has been pulled from his youth squad in the memorable moments menu.
When a player has been drafted after friday morning you are sure he hasnt received any training and has been pulled at his current skill levels. Meaning that on average he's halfway to the next level. In other words if training scoring takes you 8 weeks for a just promoted player, it should take you 4 weeks on average for a youthpull. Could also be just 1 or the whole 8 weeks.
However when a player has been drafted a few weeks ago, chances are pretty big he has been trained and has promoted recently. So preferably buy a player that has been drafted very recently to improve quick level up chances.
I have bought only 3 fresh youth-just-polled-passable scorers for about 10K each none of which had never played a game with virtually zero TSI. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but if they did not play a single game, they cannot get any training on them? And they were from decent leagues (IIIrd and IVth IIRC), so chances are these guys really consider this as a trash and might train only if they pull a solid scorer from the youth. But I'll double-check regarding Fridays.
If they didnt play any game, the chance they trained is extremely small. Every week all players get a tiny, tiny amount of training experience even if they didnt play but the chance that leveled up a payer is below 1%.
The fact that they're for sale doesnt necessarily mean someone thinks they're not good enough for him but maybe they have a different training programm. If you pull a solid scorer but you're training 10 PM trainees, a solid scorer might be useless for you.
You wrote you bought players with virtually no TSI, I'm wondering what you exactly mean by this. Are they below passable scoring level or low TSI for passable?
They are passable scoring but TSI was low, 280 (17 yrs), 390, and 400 (both 18yrs). And I checked, they all were pulled on 8/22 Sunday, sold on Thursday 8/25.
I guess at present, I'll just save cash. No stadium expansion, crappy coach, no new players, just train and try to survive. IMHO, about 700K minimum is needed to start training keepers and may be scoring if my current guys don't jump a level this season. The performance income (spectators, supporters, and sponsors) is a sure bet although being very slim it allows to keep the bidget. Burning all cash now seems too risky as training better be started early in the season. Also, I'm thinking of thinking of buying some 17 yr olds right before the end of season. They would be more expensive at the beginning of the next season even if they would be 18 yr old then. Essentially, they train with virtually same speed as 17 yr old, like 3-5% more slow. But price is different substantially.
What I don't like about transfer market is that you really have to watch closely your bets sometimes since guys with "Supporter" jump in all around the place and bet 1$ over you in the right time and snatch the ppls out of your nose. Not that much can be done about it. Even if I have this stupid supporter, I'm not going to wake up 3 am and watch the betting. [lol]
supporter had tye bookmark function which makes it worthwhile the €20 euro a year imo. The rest is nice, but bookmark is best.
Sure helps me to track all of your teams although you are only allowed to have 50 bookmarks and I already have 29 so in the future I'll be in trouble.
Buying players at 3am is tough for Supporters too, lately I'm only following players with the deadline within 2 hours or at some time when I know I will have time and internet access.
quote:Originally posted by yndy
... Buying players at 3am is tough for Supporters too ...
[lol]
Well, I have at least 6 months lagging existense to see if I have enough interest and if I can do reasonably well. But it is crystal clear why you don't play Civ a lot recently. :)
Just wanted to ask the experts what to do in my situation. I have finished somehow the season actually making at least +20K/week for 5 last weeks with more or less acceptable performance and decided to get a solid coach with weak leadership. I'm also continuing training for scoring.
Now I have:
1 solid forward (26yrs)
5 passable scorers (18, 19, 19, 20 and 30 yrs)
7 inadequate (potentially trainable to passable but mostly over 23yrs)
I guess I would just have to continue until few of them promote before switching training since I have already put a lot of effort into this. There are 2 questions:
1) if I field the scorers (passable) as midfielders would they get the same training/promotion?
2) How do I keep the ends meet with anticipated poor performance and possible loss of income from sponsors/supporters? I have some cash reserve may be enough to last for a half of the season.
1) if you field the scorers as midfielders they wont receive training. Or to be precise, they'll receive a very,very, very minimal amount of training which is neglectable.
2) Sponsors and supporters are kept happy when you employ some spokepersons. If you don't have them employ 2.
I dont know how much training your scorers already received but you have 4 young passables scorers selling them at solid will probably get you 100k euro's but that's also depending on the other skills they have.
Excellent scorers should be able to get you 350K so I'd try and stick it out untill they're excellent, but if that's not feasable you might wanna sell a solid one to brigde your financial gap. If you have to sell try and sell an older forward, if that will give you enough money to survive that is. You can train 5/6 scorers week so I wouldnt bother with the inadequate ones if they;re already 23+. Better you sell an excellent scorer and buy back a passable/solid trainee.
akots the inadequates and the 30 years old passable are not worth training anymore. I question if the inadequates are worth their weekly salary.
You should get a solid coach with poor leadership, the saving is well worth the one leadership skill difference. You should train the solid guy until formidable but I wonder if you can get there until this season ends. The young passables are worth training for 2-3 seasons, they’ll worth big bucks from formidable levels onward.
You should have more sponsors. I recommend 5 and your revenues will increase regardless of losses. If you don’t break even, you should consider selling players that cost you weekly salaries but don’t play. I kept a team of 18 players for about a season, now I have 25 but don’t really need 4 of them.
PP, the minimal trening is not neglectable, is only hard to manage. Studies made by some players estimate the amount of training received to between 1% - 3% of a level per week compared with about 15% per week for trained players. The very tedious players make use of the residual training in one of the following two ways:
- buy 30 spare players and have them ‚residually trained’. It will take 3 seasons / level but the extra revenue exceeds the cost of salaries. The form of the players will be crap though so I wonder if it’s worth doing.
- Finish training one week before the player ‚pops’, buy a replacement and wait until the player ‚pops’ duet o residual trening (1-7 weeks). Still risk of form decrease exist.
I’m not using either of them but I’m following players that do.
OK, thanks. These 7 inadequates are mostly defenders and midfields. Since they don't receive any training but these tiny 1-3%, there is no hope for them to get to passable in a reasonable time. However, there are 3 passable wingers among those inadequates, so I'll just leave them like they are. Currently I can probably "digest" 5 scorers/week - 2 are fielded for league matches and 3 for friendlies. So, my 30yr old scorer would not get anything. I might just well sell him. BTW, playing with 3 forwards is apparently no fun at all.
I also have my own trainer candidate, just need to bring him to decent experience level. Sure, it takes some time apparently. But so far, his experience is rising steadily.
The team really was unable to afford a coach with higher leadership than weak. It is also probably a good idea to get some cash to expand the arena this season as well. But I'll get 3 more spokesperson, I have 2 currently.
Yndy,
About the residual training: I read somewhere that it was about 0,5% of a skill level, which is why i consider(ed) it neglectable.
I like the idea of having residual trainees around, but I'm under the impression that prices are constantly dropping so I think 3 seasons is way too long for training just 1 level atm.
I wonder if the residual-training-just-before-popping is profitable when you factor in the interest.
Another question:
One of my juniors promoted from passable to solid scoring. Do I keep on training him to excellent together with the others or sell him now? He has no other good points and the form is weak iirc. Might worth 80-100K or may be more though since it is only the start of the season. Market is really jumpy. IMO, many very strange things happen with prices for forwards. Absolutely identical players go from 70K to 200K.
You should keep training him.
PP, interest should be factored in but would it be interest for debt or interest for funds available? I raised a Euro 2 million cushion for unexpected events and I would use part of that to fund the purchase of a new guy so the interest would not be significant.
Yndy, also when you have money you should factor in interest imo. economists will give you interest on your money iirc (not a situation I'm familiar with in Hattrick) so selling 7 weeks later means losing interest. If that's more than the salary you pay, I'd say train 1 more week, sell and buy a new trainee.
My scoring training program is going rather well. I have now two excellent forwards, one is 18 years old and another is 27. And 3 solid (30, 18, and 19 years old). The older guys are the main playing force and others are just training. However, my league standing is not good and mostly because of stupid mistakes (motsing when I should not and losing, forgetting to adjust the squad, chosing wrong tactics) and poor leadership of the coach. I'm now looking for the young guys with passable scoring and passable passing but they are very expensive (about 100K) and rare, so I decided to settle for 17 year-olds with inadequate scoring and solid passing which go for about 20-30K on the market. Not sure this is the right thing to do though. I'm also will be apparently forced to sell at least one of the excellent forwards to get enough cash for upgrade of the stadium or otherwise, I would have to go into minus budget. Is this the right thing to do?
What I think is that it is not worthy to switch the training program to something else because actually I'm looking into getting 3 brilliant/outstanding forwards by the end of the next season which might bring a decent cash finally. Or there is an option to wait for 3 seasons more and try to bring these guys into world class in scoring. But it might be confortable to part with them at outstanding/brilliant level?
Also wanted to ask if I switch the training to passing for at least one or two guys to promote a level? How long will it take and which training type should I select then for optimal results? Is it short passes? Or shooting? And what actually is shooting training good for?
Perhaps not. I'm already in debt with a 20k so whilst I was planning to expand the stadium it simply isn't worth it with transfer prices currently low and my trainees only around solid. The advice seems to be to sell trainees once they hit formidable that is where the major gains are to be made. Not from going from solid to excellent. Unless you are thinking of selling your older players which may be a good idea. Next season I may be able to expand the stadium and will just have to cope with the extra cost. A cost that will hopefully be outweighed by the gains in training. (Excellent to formidable should be at least 200k which easily offsets the increase in stadium costs if you are looking to add 10k to the capacity).
The secondary skills training issue also came up recently and the advice mainly centred around whether you think your trainees are close to popping a level in passing since otherwise the primary skill is more worthwhile.
The final piece of advice I gained from the BDF is to make the change and sell the older strikers to free up slots for more trainees. I sold my very good excellent striker and his strike partner and used the cash to get a decent trainee. There was an initial impact on team form but by the start of next season when I am hoping to make a push for promotion my trainees will all be popping to excellent and I will end up with a far better strike force.
akots you should sell your older trainees and replace them with more suitable ones. In the stage you are, the proceeds should be reinvested in trainees only and not other players. You should be able to buy 17 years old solid strikers (200k-300k) or 18 years old excellent ones (about 500k).
Selling at brilliant/oustanding is OK, magnificent/world class and supernatural is slightly better.
My 27 year-old just popped a level up to excellent. He is training really slowly. The one who is 18 year old alredy popped 2 levels up and the other two also are ready to promote to excellent rather soon, probably between seasons or early next season. I guess I'll get rid of the old guy. I also got a 17-year old traineer with inadequate scoring and solid passing for 26K which is dirt cheap imo considering that next season he should go up to at least solid scoring and will be worth 300K. I'm actively hunting for an inexpensive passable scoring/solid passing 17 year-old traineer but it is a very rare thing for a reasonable price.
Put him on transfer list as I type this for starting price 250K:
Johnie Hollins (39335056)
27 years, inadequate form, healthy
A pleasant guy who is balanced and upright.
Has poor experience and weak leadership abilities.
Nationality: USA
Total Skill Index (TSI): 1 200
Wage: 680 US$/week
Owner: Chemists
Warnings: 1
Stamina: excellent Goaltending: disastrous
Playmaking: poor Passing: poor
Winger: weak Defending: weak
Scoring: excellent Set Pieces: solid
Career Goals: 7
Career Hattricks: 1
League goals this season: 2
Cup goals this season: 0
One thing to take into account with trainee valuations is just how close you are to the end of the season since a 17 year old 4 weeks before the end of the season is effectively a slightly better than normal 18 year old. I'm not sure why hattrick is set up so that all players age at the same time, since it seems to polarise the trainee market with huge prices at the start of the season which fall towards the end.
@Yndy: Well, the prices you have are out of date. There are only 3 or 4 solid 17-year-old solid forwards a few days ago in the whole hattrick and they all go for about +400K. Now, there is only one and worth 500K.
http://www16.hattrick.org/Common/playerDetails.asp?t2=1&playerID=49793697
Admittedly his passing is poor but he is a solid striker
http://www16.hattrick.org/Common/playerDetails.asp?t2=1&playerID=46895934
Solid 17 year old with passable passing
It looks like quite a few people may be overcharging but there should be a couple of players listed for lower amounts that may turn out to be bargins.
Well, thanks a lot, I was following one of these but will keep an eye on both but they are way over my head and will probably end up around 300-400K both. However, with deadline on Christmas day there are chances I can catch them.
Well, prices may vary :)
Admitedly, I did not look on the transfermarket lately and prices keep on changing.
quote:Originally posted by yndy
Well, prices may vary :)...
Forward trainee market has been always a bit crazy at least that is what people say on the forums. But recently it has become especially weird with Christmas and end of season coming apparently. I'm surveying about once a week in hopeless searches for a bargain. It is extremely jumpy especially with 17-18yrs old trainees which have passing passable or above and scoring starting from solid. They are worth at least twice or sometimes 3-4 times the price of "normal" forwards. I figured out that buying solid scorer would be too much for me and it is at this stage less risky to train from passable or even inadequate scoring with +passable passing. May be though it is a wrong thing to do.
I have finally sold my excel 27 year old forward for 250K exactly to some decent club in Argentina. Now have about 350K in the bank and one place for a good trainee. So, out of 350K, 250 or so go to arena upgrade and 100K will go to buy some 17-18year old passable scoring/passable or solid passing trainee. Unfortunately, 17 year olds are really expensive and go as high as 300K or even more if there are actually any on the market. So, I have an option to settler either for inadequate scoring / solid passing 17 year old or continue fishing for 18 year old forwards. The number of offers is really limited. Apparently, people don't want to sell cheap since the end of season is coming.
My youth squad is solid already on the way to excellent. So, I've been fishing for a keeper mostly there and pulled 2 weak which were promtly dismissed and one inadequate 22 year-old keeper. The problem is that my current keeper (weak) is the team captain and clown. If I don't field him, the team spirit is rather low and some confusion starts to appear. So, may be I should forget about the keeper and keep the current one. The problem is that he has a little perspective of becoming a decent coach because his experience is at weak level and not even inadequate. And increasing really very slowly. So, what to do in this case? Just fish for outfielders in the youth squad or continue with keepers gambling to get a passable or may be even solid one day?
If possible and if you can spare the time, if I were you I'd fire the keeper-clown, and try to find an outfielder clown, since the keeper eats way too much salary for a guy who doesn't need to play but only helps out with the TS.
I wouldn't worry about how competent a captain you have really, confusion really only appears when playing formations strange to your squad, and that should sort itself out after you've played that formation a few times, with or without a good captain.
If your best keeper is inadequate, fishing in a solid ys should pay off quickly, at least pp seems to be grabbing passable and solid keepers all the time (;)), but I don't know his ys level I must admit.
quote:Originally posted by akots
So, I've been fishing for a keeper mostly there and pulled 2 weak which were promtly dismissed and one inadequate 22 year-old keeper. The problem is that my current keeper (weak) is the team captain and clown. If I don't field him, the team spirit is rather low and some confusion starts to appear.
Nope and Nope :)
You don't have to field the clown for him to do his work and the contribution of the captain is when you play tactics that you are not familiar with.
The salary of a weak keeper is probably low anyway so no extra payments there. I'd keep on pulling keepers from the youth squad, you'll probably get a decent one eventually.
Well, if I check the transfer markets for weak keepers, salary is between $800 and $1000 usuallly for weak keepers, say you keep a clown for a very long time, for example in 5 seasons that would already cost an additional 15*400*5= 30k compared to an outfielder clown. Since a new clown can be bought for only a few K's, he would be worth his price already after say 5 weeks of salary... as said if you want to take some spare time to search for a 1K clown. ;)
Due to the sale of the forward, the stadium has been upgraded. Also, I'm apparently firmly 5th in the league but should have been at least of the 3rd place if not second because of a number of stupid mistakes (too many to mention).
Just a general question, nothing specific to the team. Since I'm stuck with training scoring, what is better to play: 3-4-3 with 2 decent wingers and more or less acceptable midfielders or 4-3-3??? In case of 4-3-3 there are options of playing with a single midfield and 2 wingers or 2 midfields and one winger. But my defenders and wingbacks are rather weak (passable around 2.2-2.6, 3-star at peak of form) as well as the keeper (still no luck from the youth squad but I'm trying). I'm now at solid experience with 4-3-3 and passable with 3-4-3 but can try to get to solid or excellent during the break. Unfortunately, there is no option to play 5-2-3 on counterattacks without a single midfielder. That would have been rather interesting though.
3-4-3 starts being a reasonable tactic when you van get more than 40% posession. If you can get that and still afford 2 wingers it's excellent.
The alternative is of course 4-3-3 Counterattack. I'd play it with 2 or even 3 midfielders (the third can be played as winger towards middle) to get 25-40% posession and hope to get one or two regular chances in addition to the counterattacks.
Playing without midfielders or with only one is a high gamble, you might lose games that you thought you ought to have won. 5-2-3 Counter is a valid tactic but you cannot get experience with it.
Played with two wingers it does not even matter if you get experience because lack of experience influences the midfield and you don't have any. Still, you will get better results with offensive tactics that with defensive ones.
quote:Originally posted by yndy
3-4-3 starts being a reasonable tactic when you van get more than 40% posession. If you can get that and still afford 2 wingers it's excellent. ...
Thanks a lot, it makes the things clear then! That is actually what happened a few times (I mean unexpectedly losing at 4-3-3 with a single midfield and 2 wingers). Though I suspect my opponents were motsing (as well as stupid me). It looks like for our league in the case of 3-4-3 with 2 midfields/2 wingers I need at least solid playmakers or better excellent to get around 45-55% posession but 40% should be doable against most of the teams. I hope that coupled with decent forwards and more or less acceptable overall passing this would be OK for attack on the wings tactics. It is predictable though but can be played as normal as well versus the stronger opponents. (??)
Training however goes first! It is slow indeed and I would say even very slow. I have unexpectedly a defender promoting up two levels from weak to inad and to passable. He has always played as defender and nothing else. HO puts him in the forward position always while calculating the optimal squad. [confused]
But scorers are still "cooking" (2 solid and 1 excel) and they are already 19-years old and all have poor/weak passing, so I'm considering of selling them as soon as they pop up a level or may be two (leaving one the most advanced in TSI) to buy one or two solid (passable) scoring/solid passing 17 year old. Though they are very expensive and very few on the market. Now I have 2 17-year old guys with inad scoring/passable-solid passing and will try to train them as advanced as reasonably possible, probably to excel scoring. It is apparently very profitable but takes a lot of patience.
Thinking of passing, it can be also trained imo and with decent profit apparently. It is somewhat similar to the stamina gambit you proposed to Kemal but instead of training stamina, passing is trained. The difference in price between young forwards with good passing and weak passing is substantial, at least as it stands now acording to my short marketing research. It is quite doable to buy 17-year old guys with solid scoring and weak passing to train them to passable or even solid passing and them sell for big bucks or continue to train scoring after this. But this is virtually impossible to do with 6 forward trainees, at least not with my very limited financial resources. [sad]
You can train up to 8 players in passing (midfield & forwards), so that might help. Though I believe the loss of training in a primary skill is hard to compensate. I decided to train passing in the off-season, just to see what happens. Training it between switching from midfield to forward is also usefull because you can afford cheaper trainees.
About 3-4-3, I usually play with 3 IM and 1 winger (either offensive or tw). As with 3-5-2 it is important to get possesion and luckily I managed to get about 50% in most matches. Never realy played CA because my defenders suck to much, so I want to keep my opponent away from my goal.
I'm having a terrible weak. Form of 12 players has dropped, 2 of which dropped by 2 points. My coach dropped his leadership from poor to wretched. Also, I still have not pulled a passable keeper yet. Besides, all my forward trainees are long overdue with skill promotion however, their salaries have jumped skyhigh due to increased TSI. But the keeper (??) had his scoring increased by a level as well as a defender. Only 4 players had their form increased. And I'm having a midfield problems since out of my 4 passable midfields 2 are beyond 30 and I need to find a replacement for them just because their skill can drop any time. Is it worth to try to invest some cash into midfielders at this situation? I can probably afford to by two solid or one excellent midfield. However, with leadership of the coach going down, I'm afraid my performance in the league is screwed this season anyhow. I guess I just have to live with it and continue training scoring but this would certainly mean substantially decreased income from spectators. The point is that to get the scoring trainees to the level where they can be sold with maximal profit, I need this whole season and at least a part of the next season if not the whole next season. For this, some steady income is required and for this league performance has to be more or less satisfactory aiming for 5th or 4th place at least. Thus, I'm thinking of investing cash into players. Or should I stockpile it and go for another coach by the mid season when I might have around 600K? I hope this disaster will not last for too long but next 3 league matches are already badly screwed probably.
You should have at least a season before you actually need to replace your coach. Its meant to take 12 weeks for the skill level of your coach to drop once his leadership hits disasterous. Buying players is up to you, getting a couple of solid midfielders would make a huge difference to your midfield ratings if you currently have poor players although you need IMs with high stamina and some passing as well and that could be moderately expensive. IF you are lucky the old IMs won't lose their skills immediately.
The keeper popped in scoring because everyone gets a little training each week, its just that the players who play up front get a lot more. Don't worry too much about form, it drops heavily in the offseason because not everyone plays and if you trained stamina then that provides an extra knock to form but it will recover.
Keeping lots of cash isn't neccessarily beneficial as when you eventually sell your trainees they should generate enough cash for you to buy replacements.
quote:Chemists - jayjs 7 - 0
Date: 2/7/2005 at 01.00
MatchID: 36871738
Weather conditions were fairly good for football, and Chemists Arena saw a crowd turnout of 9581. Chemists started off with a 3-4-3 lineup. The following players had been chosen: Fugate - Beal, Cueto, Parker - Collazo, Stoleru, Robitaille, Hammond - Patton, Spencer, Brown.
jayjs started off with a 3-4-3 lineup. The following players had been chosen: Fritz - Lachance, Sumner, Álvarez de Miran - Alicea, Vance, Mcallister, Keeler - Merritt, Baldwin, Nguyen.
jayjs´s Kurt Merritt could have put the guests one up in the 11th minute, chasing a through ball but Dave Fugate was fast as a snake, grabbing the ball from under his nose. jayjss Willie Alicea got himself booked after a foul. After 30 minutes jayjs´s Julio Álvarez de Miranda contracted a slight foot injury, but could finish the game. Jackie Spencer gave his Chemists the lead with 1 - 0, as he successfully challenged both the guests central defenders, then placed the ball unreachably at the goaltenders right post. In the 35:th minute Chemists put themselves up 2 - 0. The visitors defenders lost the ball to Jeffrey Brown coming up from the left, who proceeded to cooly round the goaltender and knock the ball home. jayjss Kurt Merritt got himself booked after a foul. Chemists were forced to a substitution as Burt Parker couldn´t continue playing due to the rough treatment, forcing Eugene Norris to come in from the sidelines. Chemists put their lead ahead another goal as Javier Robitaille struck home the 3 - 0 goal, after an attack from the left setting him up unmarked with the keeper. Julio Álvarez de Miranda had a lethal looking free kick grazing the post in the 45:th minute. 3 - 0 was the half-time score. Chemists held the ball, with a clear 58 percent possession rate.
Chemists were given a penalty in the 67:th, neatly put away by Mark Patton. 4 - 0 for the home side. By now Chemists were drawing the troops back in order to defend their lead. The referee showed Chemistss Javier Robitaille the yellow card after a particularly nasty challenge. Chemists were given a penalty in the 68:th, neatly put away by Mark Patton. 5 - 0 for the home side. In the 77:th minute of the match the visitors central line of defence had to look on as Javier Robitaille dashed through, knocking home 6 - 0 for Chemists. A bit later, a magnificent combination in the middle resulted in Chemists´s Javier Robitaille putting the lead up to 7 - 0. By then Javier Robitaille was a three time scorer - a hat trick! After 82 minutes jayjs´s Denis Nguyen contracted a slight foot injury, but could finish the game. Chemists, bringing the final ball possession rate to 75 percent, dominated the battle.
Most important Chemists player was Jackie Spencer. Eugene Norris on the other hand, had a terrible day. The most dominating jayjs player was without a doubt Denis Nguyen. Nigel Fritz was a disappointment, however. The match ends 7 - 0.
By no means the score is reasonable or even the result. Apparently Hattrick is a snake which decided to bite me with his teeth but let me caress its tail or vice versa.
Here is the team stats:
quote:Chemists
Team Attitude: Normal
Tactic: Normal
Tactic skill: (no tactic)
Midfield: wretched (low)
Right Side Defence: wretched (high)
Central Defence: poor (low)
Left Side Defence: wretched (very high)
Right Side Attack: inadequate (low)
Central Attack: weak (very high)
Left Side Attack: inadequate (very low)
jayjs
Team Attitude: (Hidden)
Tactic: Normal
Tactic skill: (no tactic)
Midfield: disastrous (very high)
Right Side Defence: poor (very low)
Central Defence: poor (low)
Left Side Defence: poor (low)
Right Side Attack: poor (low)
Central Attack: inadequate (high)
Left Side Attack: weak (very high)
You absolutely destroyed him on the midfield especially in the second half as you won the stamina battle resulting in far more chances and allowing you to comfortably win especially as they have a crap defence so don't have much chance stopping goal attempts.
Rolling over in the lague still continues. I don't actually understand very well the mechanics of it but it seems working pretty well. Although I played mostly inferior teams, it is still rather good to have a 25-1 after 3 games with 9 points winning 7-0, 1-9, and 9-0. The last one was against a newbie team pic'ing at home. I also have found a possible cheater in the league and e-mail to the gamemasters, so I did not see this team owner logging in since February 2. Apparently, his access was banned but team still fields standard lineup which is actually extremely strong for a newbie that he is. I'll be facing a counterattacking team which is rather strong (one 4-star defender at least) at 5-4-1 and a midfield "normal" team 3-5-2 which is also a rather strong. Also, there is a team which moved down from the 5th league. If I can win the home matches with these guys, I might be facing first or second place in this season. But it is all because of forwards and because eventually, most of other team members got their scoring at least to inadequate and a few are passable. This might mean that almost every possiblity has a decent chance to hit the goal at least with teams who have inferior defenses. Also, the number of supporters and their mood is growing steadily and I'm making about 100K from the crowd in a sunny day league match at home.
Just a silly question: What can I do to improve the chances playing against the stronger teams?
With end of season coming, I thinking of whether training of forwards is actually a good idea. This is what I found when looking at transfer market recently. The table lists total number of players offered on transfer market as of May 7, 2005 with the primary skill of world class level or higher. I did not look at the secondary skills. Also, for wingbacks, I looked for combination of brilliant defending and brilliant winger. Wingbacks are really tricky to train and surprisingly they are not worth much even if trained well. Guess people just can struggle with what they can have and this position is not considered extremely important.
I then normalized the numbers by dividing keepers by 1, forwards by 2, IMs by 3, defenders by 3, and wingers by 2 for a 3-5-2 setup.
Here is the spreadsheet:
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/akots/20055823356_ht-transfer-050705.JPG
73.53KB
What is evident from this little piece of statistics:
1) Seems that there is substantial overproduction of forwards and IMs in Western Europe which basically screws the whole market. Many people are training these and certainly can barely afford their salaries and will be probably forced to give up on their prices by the beginning of new season with new salaries. Other leagues are not that unbalanced. Consider also that market shows only 250 offers, but there are probably way more.
2) Keeper market seems to be OK atm.
3) There is considerable shortage of defenders on the market or so it seems. They are not very pleasant to train as well.
4) Winger market seems to be OK overall with occasional abnormalities.
5) Nobody discovered a decent way to train wingbacks. Even despite some new training types.
It is quite possible many people will switch away from forward and IM training next season. This should at least organize the market. It might be this fluctiation does not have a strong impact on overall stats and unlikely that HT admins will change something with training about it. It is just end of season.
It also seems that secondaries especially passing plays more and more important role is pushing through the sales.
I now have 7 forward trainees, 4 of which have solid passing, 1 passable, and 2 poor but one with poor has a head specialty. So it seems, I would need for myself 3 forwards with solid passing and/or head at at least outstanding/magnificient level to play if thinking of promotion to the Vth division next season. I will probably stay in the VIth for the next season though.
So, all other forwards would have to be sold hopefully at world class or might be magnificient but really I don't care much. I'm then planning to switch training either to keepers which is more predictable or wingers which is a rather stable thing as well. It might be that discovering decent way of wingback training would help a lot also but it is really tricky, trainees are extremely expensive and they seem to be underpriced. Also, it seems I would have to train passing in the season brake by playing forward trainees in midfield positions.
Question: Is this a reasonable thing to do or the transfer market will cure itself?
[bump]
Now, I've reached a certain point with scoring training. I have 1 world class forward, 3 outstanding, 2 formidable, and 1 solid with excel passing. What I intended to do for a long time is change training because forward training sucks, performance with 3-4-3 or 4-3-3 is suboptimal for my league. Way better might be playing standard 3-5-2 or 5-3-2 with CA. This means I'd have to go with playmaking training or defender training (or winger training which also sucks big) or keeper training. I'm not very fond of counterattacks and defender training since my league is not that strong this season. I think I can do OK and be rather competitive playing 3-5-2 and training playmaking or wingers. Also, there is always an option of training keepers but I'm still farming my solid leadership keeper to get to excellent experience to become a coach one day. He's playing in friendlies. Of course, I can play him as an outfield, so no big deal here.
My weakest point is defence (keeper) and midfield (best mf is only formidable), attack seems to be more or less OK in general. I can get high formidable AIM and hope to keep at least excellent level with 2 forwards.
I'm considering to leave 1 world class and 2 outstanding forwards while selling outstanding (passable passing), 2 formidables (passable and excel passing) and the solid guy which should bring me roughly 4 million cash, may be slightly more or less. I'm very tempted to leave this cash as cash supply for financial income and spend a portion of it into trainees, lets say I can spare 1 or 1.5 million for them.
Question: which training type would be more profitable in the middle run (2-3 maximum 4 seasons) considering the intial investment I'm prepared to place onto it? Major concern is very high price of good playmaking trainees, while the cost of winger trainees is moderate and prices for keeper trainees are steep but I think I can handle that.
Or should I continue with forward training by selling world class and all outstanding forwards and buying new trainees? I think I will not relegate this season in this case if I get a few good wingers and playmakers for half of that cash and leave the other half for financial income.
[confused]
Questions, decisions, complicated. [confused]
Shabbaman
03-02-2006, 08:06
Great analysis akots, sorry I missed your previous post. Forward training is indeed deemed unprofitable. I think I make reasonable profits: something below 60k a week per player. Unfortunately I only have 6 training spots...
And as you know I want to change training for a long time now. It looks as if this season is going to be my last as forward trainer. The one thing I'm a bit concerned about is on what term my new training schedule is going to be profitable. I'd be wasting some training with my current trainees, and I can't play trainees in the league immediately because that'd weaken my midfield too much. In your case, it seems that getting trainees with formidable PM won't be very difficult.
My question is this: why are you talking about the middle run? To me it seems obvious that changing training is a waste of money in itself, and that you should change as little as possible.
About your previous post: I don't know. A lot of people started training forwards at the same time I did. I can't say it's getting worse, but with the change of the effect of forwards on wing attack it certainly got a lot worse to play 3-4-3. For me one of the main reasons to change training, but for a lot of others as well I hope. So perhaps I'll just sit it out [zzz]
It seems I have decided. I cannot afford to sit there and eat the same shit for another 3 or 4 seasons. I think I'll go with keeper training. I can certainly afford two solid 17-year old trainees of about 600-700K each, I even can afford one excellent since it is middle of the season but there is little point in that imho. Also, I would have slightly over 1 million extra cash which I might spend on two decent defenders (formidable) or one playmaker (formidable with secondaries) or 2 very nice wingers (up to outstanding with inadequate playmaking or similar). Still leaning towards relatively young wingers (22-23 years old) and play out this season with whatever midfield and defence I have. I certainly cannot afford 6 reasonable playmaking trainees (even passable with secondaries are too expensive) to make training profitable enough. Now comes the tricky part of selling these nasty forwards. It might be I would still be training scoring this week since it is too late to put them all on the market in time for the deadline to coincide with league games in Western Europe and too early for friendly games.
The plan for this season is to stay in Vth division and prepare the team for 2 following seasons. Keeper training serves it well imho. I would be playing 3-5-2 if I see I can win the midfield (why not?) and if midfield is clearly lost, I would be playing 5-3-2 CA or pressing in hopeless cases like it is against the current leader in the league. It should be a powerful combination allowing for unique flexibility both against relatively weak and very strong midfield teams respectively. It shoudl greatly improve my standing in the league as well hopefully up to 3rd or even second place within 2 or maximum 3 seasons required to train the keepers. Cash would be stockpiled and used mostly for financial purposes and occasional players would be purchased with whatever limited funds available.
There is also a very long term plan of going into a very decent playmaking training program but in order for it to be successfull, huge startup cash is required. Proper training of playmaking is a huge investment I'd estimate of one-time spending of about 7-10 million which should also be very profitable, at least with a possibility to return the invested money.
Four forwards had been sold for about 3.6 million netting about 3.25 million cash. I've bookmarked a dozen keeper trainees (17-years old, solid, over 3500 TSI, should be at 500-600K each) and few wingers (starting from brilliant with passable passiing and at least inadequate playmaking) as well as a few oustanding defenders with solid passing. I won't get them all unless I spend all the cash but I might get some good deals if only I'm able to find some time at work to catch these bookmarks on transfer market. This should enhance the counterattack skill of the team substantially. I'm planning on playing the next 4 matches 5-3-2 with CA because I'm facing 2 strong midfield-oriented teams with high inadequate (low passable) and high passable (low solid) midfield rating. Will consider it very lucky if I can draw at least one match out of these four but we'll see how it goes. May be I'm underestimating my guys.
I do realize that my defence sucks compared to Kingreno's but Chemists might have overall not so bad chance with all players having at least inadequate (up to solid) passing and rather decent attack rating for 5-3-2. Besides, I'm facing not so strong rivals except may be the current league leader relegated from IVth division this season.
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