View Full Version : Introducing to you all: FC De Snaken
Finally got my hattrick team today, after weeks of waiting! FC De Snaken is ready for action, and all players are eager to act in the next editon of the CDZ-Cup, hoping to bring glory and trophies back to their home ground, the Snaken Arena.
However, I'm under the impression that there's a lot of work that needs to be done before I can field an adequate team, when taking a look at the players I have in my squad:
Your 18 players
Appie Seldenrijk
TSI = 110 , 22 years, poor form
Has disastrous experience and inadequate leadership abilities [Head]
Stamina: inadequate Keeper: disastrous
Playmaking: weak Passing: poor
Winger: disastrous Defending: inadequate
Scoring: poor Set Pieces: wretched
Co Bardoul
TSI = 310 , 27 years, poor form
Has poor experience and poor leadership abilities
Stamina: poor Keeper: disastrous
Playmaking: weak Passing: solid
Winger: weak Defending: weak
Scoring: wretched Set Pieces: passable
Gelwin van der Heijden
TSI = 190 , 28 years, weak form
Has wretched experience and inadequate leadership abilities
Stamina: solid Keeper: wretched
Playmaking: poor Passing: poor
Winger: passable Defending: poor
Scoring: weak Set Pieces: disastrous
Gerjan Klajic
TSI = 20 , 22 years, poor form
Has wretched experience and passable leadership abilities
Stamina: inadequate Keeper: disastrous
Playmaking: wretched Passing: disastrous
Winger: weak Defending: poor
Scoring: poor Set Pieces: disastrous
Harold Poorter
TSI = 520 , 22 years, weak form
Has wretched experience and weak leadership abilities
Stamina: weak Keeper: disastrous
Playmaking: weak Passing: poor
Winger: weak Defending: passable
Scoring: weak Set Pieces: poor
Jerry van Bergen
TSI = 650 , 30 years, weak form
Has wretched experience and inadequate leadership abilities
Stamina: disastrous Keeper: inadequate
Playmaking: wretched Passing: wretched
Winger: disastrous Defending: disastrous
Scoring: wretched Set Pieces: passable
Kazim Geerste
TSI = 90 , 24 years, poor form
Has wretched experience and weak leadership abilities [Quick]
Stamina: wretched Keeper: wretched
Playmaking: inadequate Passing: weak
Winger: weak Defending: wretched
Scoring: weak Set Pieces: weak
Liam Thybaut
TSI = 250 , 25 years, weak form
Has disastrous experience and disastrous leadership abilities [Head]
Stamina: weak Keeper: wretched
Playmaking: inadequate Passing: poor
Winger: weak Defending: weak
Scoring: inadequate Set Pieces: poor
Merijn Verhees
TSI = 0 , 49 years, weak form
Has brilliant experience and weak leadership abilities [Head]
Stamina: wretched Keeper: wretched
Playmaking: wretched Passing: wretched
Winger: disastrous Defending: wretched
Scoring: disastrous Set Pieces: wretched
Olivier den Boer
TSI = 170 , 20 years, inadequate form
Has disastrous experience and disastrous leadership abilities [Unpredictable]
Stamina: poor Keeper: wretched
Playmaking: passable Passing: weak
Winger: wretched Defending: disastrous
Scoring: poor Set Pieces: weak
Oscar Boekweg
TSI = 230 , 22 years, wretched form
Has wretched experience and poor leadership abilities
Stamina: weak Keeper: disastrous
Playmaking: weak Passing: poor
Winger: weak Defending: weak
Scoring: passable Set Pieces: disastrous
Perez van Dijken
TSI = 440 , 21 years, passable form
Has disastrous experience and inadequate leadership abilities [Head]
Stamina: weak Keeper: disastrous
Playmaking: poor Passing: passable
Winger: inadequate Defending: weak
Scoring: wretched Set Pieces: solid
Rieuwert van der Hall
TSI = 230 , 28 years, weak form
Has poor experience and weak leadership abilities [Technical]
Stamina: poor Keeper: wretched
Playmaking: passable Passing: disastrous
Winger: inadequate Defending: poor
Scoring: weak Set Pieces: wretched
Robertjan Jongma
TSI = 140 , 23 years, poor form
Has wretched experience and poor leadership abilities
Stamina: poor Keeper: disastrous
Playmaking: weak Passing: disastrous
Winger: inadequate Defending: weak
Scoring: poor Set Pieces: poor
Robert-Jan Noteboom
TSI = 210 , 25 years, inadequate form
Has poor experience and wretched leadership abilities
Stamina: inadequate Keeper: disastrous
Playmaking: poor Passing: inadequate
Winger: weak Defending: poor
Scoring: weak Set Pieces: weak
Sijmen Buringa
TSI = 90 , 27 years, passable form
Has weak experience and weak leadership abilities
Stamina: wretched Keeper: wretched
Playmaking: inadequate Passing: wretched
Winger: poor Defending: weak
Scoring: weak Set Pieces: inadequate
Sjaak-Jan Bruininx
TSI = 210 , 25 years, weak form
Has wretched experience and weak leadership abilities
Stamina: inadequate Keeper: disastrous
Playmaking: poor Passing: passable
Winger: poor Defending: weak
Scoring: poor Set Pieces: inadequate
Wilm Meesen
TSI = 180 , 25 years, inadequate form
Has poor experience and weak leadership abilities
Stamina: weak Keeper: wretched
Playmaking: disastrous Passing: poor
Winger: weak Defending: passable
Scoring: wretched Set Pieces: wretched
Hmm, first question that arises with me already, is whether letting your keeper take the set pieces has any impact on my team's keeping abilities, i.e. in this game, is it actually reflected in the amount of goals scored against me that a keeper taking set pieces such as corners would actually need to make it back to the goal in time to do any goalkeeping there? Since my best keeper also has the best ranking in set pieces, I thought of letting him take them... but not if that would mean that every corner I get means conceding a goal of course.
Furthermore, I've noticed there are plenty of options to choose from besides creating a team line-up, such as hiring spokesmen, assisten coaches etc, and my next game is coming up rapidly.
So, if any of you hattrick experts could give me some starting hints, as to what is best to do early on to have at least a little hope of surviving in my 8th division, that would be very much appreciated! :)
Congrats. Maybe I can shed some light on the situation.
First of all I never experienced a downside to having your keeper take set pieces and I did it myself for a while.
Looking at your team I can see a serious lack of stamina. Especially you midfielders need it badly. The two passable innermids you won´t last for 5 minutes before the get exhausted. So training stamina for a few weeks wouldn't hurt. Remember that the for of your players will go down, so don't train it for too long.
Furthermore if I were you I would fire some (the ones that don't have any skill on inadequate or higher) and by new players instead. Bear in mind do that you need app. 20 players and you can always line up the usuless ones in friendlies.
Determine what skill you are going to train and try to find a couple of 17/18 year olds with inadequate/passable on that skill. In time you need a passable/solid coach too.
Within a few weeks you should expand your stadium to about 15.000 seats. Otherwise you'll never make enough money out off crowd revenues.
The 'specialists' you can hire serve several purposes.
Doctors heal your injured players. 1 week of the total per doctor for a 17 year old.
Physio's prevent injuries.
spokesman keep your sponsors and supporters happy (even if you loose a lot)
assistant trainers enhance the effect of training.
I would hire 3 spokespersons, 3 assistant coaches and 1 assistant keeper trainer. 1 physio comes in handy too.
(I don't know if you can afford al these)
That's it I think, I don't doubt others will have a different opinion, maybe PP can tell you more about 8th division dynamics.
good luck!
Thanks for the excellent tips Schip [thumbsup], Already an important relegation match coming up next week for my Snaken, so time for some serious stamina training for my feeble payers indeed. [whipped]
Shabbaman
11-08-2004, 14:28
Welcome on board Kemal! Any explanations on your team name?
First things to do, before you do anything:
1. Try to arrange a friendly for today
2. Download hattrick organizer (http://www.hattrickorganizer.de) or a similar program
3. Read the abc of tactics (http://hem.passagen.se/hammervald/abc_of_tactics/abc_of_tactics_hol.htm)
4. Read the platypus guide (http://www.hottrick.org/Sections+index-req-listarticles-secid-2.html)
Then proceed with the following:
Do what the platypus guide says. Don't bother with your current team, the season is half-way so you can't win anything anyway. You'll probably end up relegated either, so focus on making big money really fast.
You've got little cash to start with, be careful with it. You need at least to upgrade your stadium and to get a new coach.
I heard about the importance of a friendly match from pp as well, but atm I'm unable to get one arranged, since teams either have already arranged a friendly, or I'm unable to challenge the team at this moment.
First reason is obvious, but as for the second...is that because it's too late now already to still arrange one, since they are played tonight? Or should I continue searching until I find a team I can challenge?
Thanks for the useful links btw! As for my team's name, it has been the name of my team in any football competition for a long time, but it doesn't have any spectacular or meaningful origins I'm afraid, IIRC it was the name of an organisation of thieves in some book I was reading (no idea which one that was) when I first needed a name in a fantasy competition, and I've used it ever since.
I'm having a look at your team and will come back to you shortly, how much money did you receive with the team?
I've got 300.000 starting money, and only 500 supporters.
Try this link for something i'm working on. I'd recommend you go for option 3 but it's not ready right now. I'll get to that now if my boss leaves me alone for half an hour.
http://www.ht-arena.com/Sticla/?page=kemal
Your 18 players
1. Appie Seldenrijk – inadequate defender (sale value = 0) – keep him for now
2. Co Bardoul – no usable skill but maybe others fall for him – transferlist him with 0 starting price
3. Gelwin van der Heijden – passable winger (sale value = EUR1,000) – keep him for now
4. Gerjan Klajic – useless, no value – fire him
5. Harold Poorter – passable defender (sale value = EUR 5,000 – 20,000) – transferlist him for EUR 5,000
6. Jerry van Bergen – inadequate keeper (sale value = 0) – keep him for now
7. Kazim Geerste – useless, no value – fire him
8. Liam Thybaut – inadequate playmaking, inadequate scoring (sale value = 0) keep him for now
9. Merijn Verhees - weak coach – keep him for now
10. Olivier den Boer – passable playmaker – (sale value = 0) – he'll benefit training in the stamina gambit
11. Oscar Boekweg – passable scoring (sale value = EUR 10,000) – transferlist him with 0 starting price
12. Perez van Dijken – inadequate winger, passable passing, solid set pieces (sale value = about EUR 10,00) – transferlist him with 0 starting price
13. Rieuwert van der Hall – passable playmaking, inadequate winger (sale value = 0) he'll benefit training in the stamina gambit
14. Robertjan Jongma – useless, no value – fire him
15. Robert-Jan Noteboom – useless, no value – fire him
16. Sijmen Buringa - useless, no value - fire him
17. Sjaak-Jan Bruininx - useless, no value - fire him
18. Wilm Meesen - passable defender (sale value = EUR 5,000 – 20,000) – transferlist him for EUR 5,000
Man, they are bad. So, my revised suggestion is to fire 6 people and transfer list 5 more in the first place.
Then I’m sorry to tell you but it seems that you will relegate no matter what. With some luck and good moves right now you’ll manage to get back next season and maybe even not relegate into this one.
Yup, it’s kind of hard to find a friendly at this time as the games are tonight but you’ll manage without one this week.
OK, now how to make money real fast. I’ll start writing the material about the stamina gambit.
Edit: transfer list more players
I can't stretch this enough : Upgrading your stadium in 8th division is a waste of money UNLESS you play for no.1 or no.2 position. Financial situation in the 8th division is much worse than in the 7th and crowds rarely exceed 700 spectators at the beginning. As it usually only costs you 9 days to upgrade the stadium there's no need to hurry.
I upgraded my stadium at the beginning and still only occasionaly draw more than 7000 sups. Last season I had 13.500 and 2 weeks ago 11K, only two times I exceeded 10K in 2.5 seasons!!! I've been playing for top positions in my league since last season, I;ve been the unbeaten league leader this whole current season.
The extra money you spend weekly on your stadium can be spent better on a reinforcement player, just make sure you keep 200K around to upagrde when necessary.
Wow, congrats on getting your team. I'm still waiting on it [sad]
Again guys, thanks for the help, it's really appreciated. Unfortunately I won't be playing a friendly tonight, as it seems all my challenges have been rejected without comment. :(
Looking forward to read more about the "stamina gambit" yndy! :)
@plux: Hopefully you'll have yours soon, I applied at the 19th of July, so I suppose you will not have too wait that long anymore now.
OK, it's updated. Shabba, PP guys, take a look too and tell me what do you think about that. It's the current draft of a new player guide i'm working on and I'm eager to get someone (Kemal, Plux) to try it. I think that you can't go wrong with it, even the nightmare scenario is better than most of the others.
Kemal, it might seem a little weird to ask you to spend all your money on the first week and end up with a horde of players but that's why it's called a gambit and not a standard increase stadium, buy better coach, tactic.
How does 2 million EURO by the end of the current season sound to you guys?
I've added something more here:
http://www.ht-arena.com/Sticla/?page=kemal2
I've got to go home now, I'll get back later in the evening to read your comments.
I've found its alot easier to arrange a friendly by putting your own advert up as there seems to be a lack of advertisers and a surplus of people searching for friendlies.
Shabbaman
11-08-2004, 18:28
Yndy, I'd already read it and I was too stunned to reply. It sounds like the stuff of a madman, but I'm sure it works. The only complication is that you need pretty much experience with the transfer market to make sure you get the right stuff. But I guess "we" ;) could be quite helpful with it by listing the exact parameters, and exact maximum prices (although you already have been pretty thorough with that...)
I'd love to see both Kemal and Plux try this strategy. You've got nothing to loose anyway, you can always quit and go for a new team...
I like the stamina idea, just a few thoughts:
Buying
I wonder if you'll manage to get any solid PM's for 15K even with lousy stamina. Transfer compare gives me prices around 55K for 10 random crappy stamina solid PM. If I edit out one player with 1500TSI which is far too high for our goal I'm left with 47K. For now let's assume 35K is possible when you take care buying.
Selling
Otoh I think 50K is quite a conservative selling price. I looked up an old (31), solid PM with excellent stamina and a fairly low TSI. Transfer compare gives me 145K average. ultimate low price in the compare is 49K, after that a few around 80K/100k. Let's assume we'll be able to sell for 100K a piece on average. That still seems conservative to me.
How will our financials be when we buy 25 players and sell/fire our starting ones.
initial funds : 300,000
initial buying: 25 * 35K = 875,000
initial selling of starting team: 250,000
--------------------------
cash after transfers : - 350K
7 weeks survival period (training stamina)
salary : 25 * 700 (high estimate) = 14,000 a week * 7 weeks = 122,500
staff : 7*7500 (low estimate) : 52,500
arena : 7*5000 : 35,000
youth : 7*5000 : 35,000
interest 7*18.000: 126,000
TOTAL expenses : 371,000
benefits
sponsors : 23.000 * 7 : 161,000 (based on 8th div average)
crowd : 15.000 * 7 : 105,000 (based on 8th div average)
TOTAL benefits : 266,000
TOTAL 7 weeks loss : 105,000
starting cash position : -325,000
cash position after 7 weeks : -430,000 euro.
Selling
25 * 100.000 = 2,500,000 euro
after selling cash position : 2,070,0000 euro
Seems a viable plan to me. be carefull though that the 7 weeks average is an AVERAGE. If you have less home games than 3.5 you'll have less income. same for the average amounts used. If you play only lousy teams at home during those 7 weeks your income will be lower.
2 million euro after 7 weeks is an incredible amount and more than enough to repeat the whole proces with 50 players. As 50 players cost you 1,7500,000 euro, you won't go into debt so you will break even during training. You sell those 50 players for 5 million.
5M plus the 250K left from first buy = 5.25 million euro. more than enough to buy a trainee keeper (Yndy's suggestion) and have enough left to buy a decent team that will get you into the 6th division in 2 seasons straight.
Bootstoots
12-08-2004, 01:25
The stamina gambit looks like a great idea to me. I've never heard of people doing that before and it sounds excellent. The only problem I see is the initial price; as PP pointed out above, it would be very hard to find solid PM players for 15K or less regardless of stamina. However, even if he makes 250K off of selling his entire starting team, he'll only be able to spend 750K total before he reaches the -200K limit to buying players, so 40 players is probably out of the question and 25 may also be too many. However, I think PP's idea to repeat the process is a good one and I think Kemal (and Plux as well when he gets a team) will be able to generate enough off of the sale regardless to be able to repeat with 50 players.
I've taken another look at the transfer market and yes my original price indication could be too optimistic. Still I think that EUR 30k per player is doable and some players can be bought even cheaper.
I've taken a look at Kemal's team as well and I doubt he'll be able to make 250 k from sale of players. So it's likely he'll reach the limit of -200k before reaching a size 50 squad. I
In such a case when he reaches something like -150K, he should switch from solid playmaking to passable playmaking, anmd the price for each player should be close to 0 (I failed completely to sell two passable playmaking due to bad stamina).
PP, there's a problem with rinse and repeat in this tactic and it's the team spirit. The team spirit will drop to the absolute minimum if you do 40 transfers in a week. It will also drop when selling all those players. The result is that Kemal won't have half-decent results until the end of the season.
By then he would have bought and resold all players. At the end of the seasons the team spirit resets and he could start on goalkeeper training with the money he saved. He would also start getting good results for the IX division.
I'll add some changes to the material to reflect what we've discussed. done
Kemal, feel free to ask and we'll answer. I've also revised my suggestions and advise you to sell more of your players (5 now, see above).
This could workout fine indeed. Do remember however that the transfermarket isn't that profitable at the end of a season (at least not for trainees). And that putting 40 players on the PM list will not do much good to the price.
Another issue which surprised me in the game of Swingue vs. Kingreno last night was that swingue played 3-4-3 and switched two positions to get this formation (a defender as extra innermid and an innermid as extra forward). My understanding was that changing the position of a player reduces his overall skill by 10% during that game. So it doesn't make sense to have two players changing its position. Anyone can confirm this?
Shabbaman
12-08-2004, 08:48
40 players on 400.000 users shouldn't significantly decrease prices. If every newbie tries this though, stamina will be worth squat in the future.
One thing that came to mind: aren't players with high stamina less sought after by the end of the season (since teams will be training stamina between seasons anyway), thus dropping the price?
Midfielder trainers would probably train stamina in the mid season but they would not need the players anyway. Others could use the opportunity to buy a set of midfielders and train them all stamina but I guess not so many change their entire midfield line at a time.
The sale of the players would actually be spread over more than three weeks as players grow at slightly different rates and they start from different levels as well.
I think if you buy excellent stamina midfielders with inadequate PM it wont cost u hardly anything.
That way you can buy yourself a few trainees to start the investments on youngsters. Starting with goaltending training is supposed to be the easiest way to go early on.
quote:Originally posted by yndy
I've taken another look at the transfer market and yes my original price indication could be too optimistic. Still I think that EUR 30k per player is doable and some players can be bought even cheaper.
I think you're right you can get them at 30k also, but you have to consider buying time too. This strategy works best if you can buy all your trainees around the same time and sell them at the same time too. If you aim for the 35k average I think you can get 25 players fairlu quickly. You're right that that's not squeezing the price to the limit however. But Kemal loves mm;ing so maybe he can get them all at 25K ;)
quote:I've taken a look at Kemal's team as well and I doubt he'll be able to make 250 k from sale of players. So it's likely he'll reach the limit of -200k before reaching a size 50 squad. I
In such a case when he reaches something like -150K, he should switch from solid playmaking to passable playmaking, anmd the price for each player should be close to 0 (I failed completely to sell two passable playmaking due to bad stamina).
I think the sellers market for passable midfielders is a tricky one. I'd rather buy a few less solids.
[quote]PP, there's a problem with rinse and repeat in this tactic and it's the team spirit. The team spirit will drop to the absolute minimum if you do 40 transfers in a week. It will also drop when selling all those players. The result is that Kemal won't have half-decent results until the end of the season. [quote]
I agree rinse and repeat has it's drawbacks. In kemals case he can train 20/25 players now, sell at the end of season and decide to rinse and repeat then. When you get a team at the beginning of the season I think rinse and repeat is the way to go as you'll lose that first season anyway due to the first half stamina training.
But in Kemals case I think the extra season lost will easily be made up for when you buy yourself a team for 5M in the 8th/9th division. You'll be trashing every team easily after that well into 7th.
I'll read your additions later, need to start cooking for my guests :)
One other question I'd like to ask, where can I find how much stars my own players have? I just made a line-up for my next game, and when inspecting my opponent getting a reading on his players (and stars) was easy, but I'd also like to see the stars for my own squad/players.
Also, the opposing team has just 10 players fielded, would that have any consequences on the game (i.e. will it still be played normally)?
if you download Hattrick Organizer (www.hattrickorganizer.de) you will get your players rated close to the star rating. You always have to round down the rating to half points to get the stars (2.7 = 2.5 start) but sometimes HO is a bit off. In my last match all ratings where acccurate except for a wingback that was rated 2.4 but got 1.5 stars. I think that was due to the fact he didnt play for a while.
When a team fields 9 or more players the match will be played normally. Chances you'll win the match will be much higher obviously.
Shabbaman
14-08-2004, 09:51
It's more likely that he had a problem with the weather conditions.
A small update on how I'm doing on the transfermarket:
I've experienced it's very tough to get solid playmakers for <30K, I've done 3 sessions of bidding for these guys, but when the deadline draws to a close prices usually soar to around 45/50K in no-time, which atm I'm unable to afford I guess.
So, I've only managed to contract 2 solid playmakers in these 3 sessions, those two being:
Michael Mikkelsen (27718948)
25 years, weak form, healthy
A sympathetic guy who is balanced and righteous.
Has disastrous experience and passable leadership abilities.
Nationality: Danmark
Total Skill Index (TSI): 500
Wage: 763 €/week including 20% Bonus
Owner: FC De Snaken
Warnings: 0
Stamina: poor Goaltending: wretched
Playmaking: solid Passing: poor
Winger: poor Defending: wretched
Scoring: poor Set Pieces: disastrous
For 10K,
And this guy:
Hans Steinmetz (38371903)
19 years, passable form, healthy
A sympathetic guy who is temperamental and honest.
Has disastrous experience and poor leadership abilities.
Nationality: Österreich
Total Skill Index (TSI): 410
Wage: 711 €/week including 20% Bonus
Owner: FC De Snaken
Warnings: 0
Stamina: poor Goaltending: disastrous
Playmaking: solid Passing: poor
Winger: wretched Defending: poor
Scoring: poor Set Pieces: inadequate
For 29K.
Question is, on this slow rate, could the gamble ever pay off? or is it just really slow going this way?
I think it will be difficult to get em under <30K. In my calculation I used a 35K average, that should be doable more quickly. Don't be afraid to hit the red figures as long as you don't exceed the -300K to be on the safe side.
Also buying on 'weird' times, like the middle of the night could pay off as less people are online. But playmakers are ever popular so I dont think it will ever get easy...
quote:
Question is, on this slow rate, could the gamble ever pay off? or is it just really slow going this way?
Well, no, it does not seem to pay off. The only thing to do is increase your maximum price a bit if there's no other way to go. Go for 35k or even 40k but keep looking for the cheap ones and keep some spare cash in reserve so that you don't run out of cash when you finally get to find the cheap ones.
Now that you know the market, you'd better target somewhere around 2 - 3 players per session plus bid the maximum price you want to pay anyway (say 30k) on all players with deadlines during the night then go to sleep. You may end up with a number of players in the morning.
Well, no idea what's happening with the market, but after 3 days of having great difficulty buying any solid PM for <35K, I now have had one big transfer-session, which resulted in my team now having 16 solid PMs bought at an average (including the first 3 expensive 30K ones) 22.1K per player, resulting in -43K cash left.
Should that be enough to start the gambit, or should I keep looking? Interest rates are pretty steep of course...
Well, then lower your maximum price a bit. I'm sure that with 20k a player you'll still cover the interest of 8 weeks (40+%) and make a profit. Maybe get used to check the market every now and then and place wild bids.
Small question about formations, I've got an important league game coming up, and logically I've got plenty of decent midfielders in my squad... if I'd play 3-5-2 next game, would the inexperience in this formation lead to a disastrous result for sure?
Kingreno
21-08-2004, 21:49
Not "for sure". But it will not do you much good. I say stick to 4-4-2 and see if one of your midfielders could be an offensive central defender. Train 3-5-2 on Wednesday.
So do I, try to play a 4-4-2 formation that mimics 3-5-2 (play one or both Central defenders as offensive and use midfielders on those positions).
Ussually you need experience of at least passable to get from the game more than you lose from confusion.
Can anyone explain how this has happened:
I just bought a guy with TSI 930, inadequate form, healthy status (according to the transfer listings) for 25.5K
But when I immediately afterwards look at the players in my squad, he has a TSI of 800, weak form, and is injured for 1 week! How come the transfer list didn't give this information to me?
Kingreno
30-08-2004, 21:51
here goes:
-Form always drops a bit after a clubchange.
-Thus lowering the TSI by a bit.
-The team you bought him from may have had (say) 5 doctors, you have 1 (?) so between health updates, he would be healthy with the otehr team, but with your one doctor it will take a day or two. I guess that sucks a bit, but it happens very rarely.[hmm]
IIRC there was a mismatch between the info on the transfer list and the info on the player page. The last one is always accurate but the first one may be outdated. But I've just noticed that this was fixed last week.
Another possibility is that you looked and bid on the player before he played later on, got injured and his TSI dropped.
A quick noob question about players & transfers, as I can't easily find it in the rules.. if I sell a player during a match, he continues to play for me until the end of the mach, right?
It would be a shame to see 25% of my team leave at halftime, leaving me with no midfielders.
Kingreno
17-10-2004, 09:10
From the rules:
quote:The player packs his bags as soon as the entire match, including possible oovertime and penalties, has been played
Ok, thanks for enlightening me on that kr! :)
And yet another question, I learned today that my TS is (heavily?) suffering from a controversial/solid leader in my squad, while it seems a popular guy with good leadership improves the TS.
So, I tried to find a cheap clown, which seems to be quite time-consuming, and therefore I've now purchased a worthless player who is sympathetic instead of popular, and temperemental and dishonest, with solid leadership of course. Is he a decent clown, or should I keep looking for better (honest etc)if I want to have a positive effect on the TS?
Clowns are hard to find if you're not prepared to pay some serious money. The problem is that the solid leadership skill may be different among the two players and if the contro/solid is higher in leadership than the sympa/solid, you still suffer the bad effects.
Just wait and see if things are getting better.
I've already put the contro on the transferlist and I'll fire him if he doesn't sell, since he's a pathetic 2 star wingback and I can easily find a replacement for him withpout spending much cash. But the sympa is a decent clown if he were the one to be assigned as clown?
Now that I'm posting this, just one more question then... I'm training goaltending, but would a assistent coach help in increasing my outfield players form? They don't receive any training of course so the assistant isn't useful for that, but I need my players to regain form after the stamina gambit, and so far it hasn't happened even after 2 weeks of general training... so I thought maybe hiring a assistant to increase their background form would help?
As I and others interpret the rules, yes, one or two assistant coaches help maintaining form for outfield players but I have no idea how much.
Ok, thanks for the info, I've hired one and hopefully he'll be able to do some miracles as currently the average form in my squad is about poor to weak.
THE STAMINA GAMBIT, KEMAL'S FINAL EVALUATION AND THOUGHTS
With only 2 to 3 PMs that need to be sold now (hopefully they'll be gone tomorrow), the chapter "stamina gambit" is drawing to the close and an inevitable summary of things happened so far to my team's economy and team, as well as my personal view on these past 9 weeks of stamina training, needs to be made and analysed.
I'd like to start off with the most important aspect of course, team finances and the effect the gamble had on it. Like all other team's, Snaken started off with a lousy squad and 300k in the bank, and I'd like to mention that in my case, it stayed at 300K to start with because I sold exactly zero players from my initial squad, they really were that bad, and that had a small negative impact on the gambit's result as I was unable to reach the 50 player limit to train with due to lack of funds early on.
Now, 9 weeks of training later, Snaken assets are much better, we currently have a solid coach employed, and are training one solid and one excellent goalkeeper trainee and still maintain a positive cash balance, and have the youth squad up to weak.
In terms of money, it comes down to about a 900k to 1M euros profit over the past 9 weeks, i.e. about 100k worth of training the week. (See my transfer history for the exact figures).
How it happened...
Of course, first thing to do was to get as many PMs with horrible stamina asap, so I started off by skimming the hattrick transfer list for a few times a day to see if any useful, and affordable, players were coming up, and where I initially was willing to pay around 30K on average for them, I realised after a few sessions that around 20k was doable, and I managed to buy 26 solid PMs (as well as some 17K worth of squad improvements) before i hit the -200K limit and wasn't allowed to bid any further.
Then, we set training to 100% stamina, and guided by our weak starting trainer, the guys started to do shuttle run after shuttle run and stamina began to improve.
Strangely enough, while on average it seems each player levels about 1 level a week with these settings, there was not at all an equal division of skill increase throughout the squad.
For example, while all players had been bought at disastrous-poor level (a few weaks as well but not many), one of the players was ready to be sold (i.e. excellent stamina) after having been only 21 days with the squad (he gained 3 levels at once at one time), while another, when the gambit was ending after 50 days of training, was still at passable(!) level (though he did start at disastrous, he gained only 2 levels after 6 weeks of stamina training).
However, most players reached excellent at about the same time, after 6 or 7 weeks of training, and were ready to be sold.
Selling the players
This turned out to be one of the most difficult parts of the gambit really, and selling these solid playmakers turned out to be quite a hassle. Initial guestimates on prices seemed to suggest that a price at around 100K would be reasonable, but after 1 week of selling no one, I reconfigured my prices, and the selling of players began at around 70-80K a piece, but still quite slowly. To illustrate, you can see on my transfer history that, while most PMs were ready to be sold at the end of september/early october, I only sold 4 players during that time (my best) while plenty of them returned from the transfer list unsold.
Now, the ones I did sell went quite high, but another problem started to take shape... I had finished training stamina but due to low sales, I was still left with little cash, and thus unable to buy other trainees. Precious training time was starting to get lost (I trained general twice in this period to increase form) and therefore i decided to lower prices to around 55-65K and see whether the situation would improve.
From that point on, sales were good and cash started to come in rapidly, though profits of course were a little lower than expected. Still, at an average price of around 60K, that's still 40K profit per player of course (excluding salaries paid).
The effects on the squad
Well, the loss of form for players after 7 weeks of training stamina is disastrous, and I still haven't recovered at all even after 2 weeks of training general, my average form is still just below weak.
After the first few weeks things seemed to go okay, sure a few players lost form but there were so many to choose from when selecting a squad, that you always had a few passable (form) midfielders with decent rating available for matches. However, at the third week or so one suddenly notices all players except the goalkeeper, for some reason, being at weak or lower form, and it really costs plenty of stars on the field.
But, looking back at my relegation from divison 8 last season, I don't think no loss of form would have made any difference in my final position in the tables.
I received the team halfway the season with 0 points out of 7, and the safe 6th spot being 6 points out of reach with only 7 games remaining. From those 7 games I played, I won 3 out of 7 games, but I let the last one slip when relegation was already a fact. However, 3 out of 7 teams in the league were virtually unbeatable for starting teams, with several 2.5 to 3.5 star players in key positions, so I think I would have lost to them no matter what had happened. And of those remaining 4 teams, I beat 3 and, as said, let the last one slip on purpose. So, i think when starting on equal footing at the start of the season, I certainly would not have relegated per se.
Furthermore, for certain key matches, there is a very cheap remedy available to get a fast increase of stars. Yndy suggested it as well, when you are in dire need of a decent player it often pays to search for inadequates on the transfer market that are in solid or excellent form. These guys go for 1K (wingers) to about 5K (defenders) a piece, and will have the same stats as much higher skilled players for about 1 to 2 weeks, i.e. you can hire them for your key matches and then fire them again.
It does take quite some time (or at least it took me) to locate these players though, so for those short on time it might not be worth it.
Pros and Cons, my own experiences
Since I have now finished it, having been using it for 10 weeks, I'd like to finish by reporting what I personally found positive and negative about the gambit, and what perhaps I could have done differently instead for better results.
Pro-gambit:
- After buying the initial players, you don't have do to a thing really, so lazy players can easily forget their team for a few weeks, and come back and see their squad fully trained and, more importantly, have made quite some profit from it.
- Starting squad has very little impact, I started out with about the worst squad possible i think, I had no valuable player whatsoever, my solid skills went to passing and stamina so I had no trainee to start with either, but except for a little less cash to invest early on, it made no difference whatsoever.
- Of course, most importantly, it makes your team decent profits! After half a season of stamina gambit, I went from starting with a bunch of losers and a rotten coach, to now training a solid and excellent keeper trainee with a solid coach, and invested the youth squad up to weak, and still have some cash to spend. I don't know much about other early training programs but I'm definitely content with where my team is now compared to 10 weeks ago.
Cons:
- The initial buying rounds can take you quite some time, if you want your players to make a profit. Lots of PMs go for 40K plus even at low levels, but you really need one large group of PMs together within a short amount of time, because they need to level to excellent at about the same time to get good results from the stamina training.
- After the initial buying rounds, the gambit is quite boring for the next 6 to 7 weeks, as it makes no difference who will play for training purposes, and results generally will not be very good, so selecting the squad is a formality, while the cash balance is extremely low (see next point) so there si no point looking at the transfer market for cheap buys or things like that.
- Wages and interest cost become quite a burden on the economy, there is no way a starting team in the lower division can make up for it by attendance or sponsors, so the cash balance drops even further.
(and not really a con but certainly not a pro:)
- selling the players can be tricky, I spent quite some cash on sending players to the transfer list for too high prices... and I'm still not sure what the best price is really, around 65K probably if you need the cash fast, or 75 or higher if your finances allow you to wait a bit longer with selling.
My final Verdict
All in all, the cons weren't really that bad to me, I was already in a very bad league position so the results didn't matter that much, and I enjoyed the last half of the season trying to get out of the relegation zone, I almost made it though I failed nevertheless of course. Also, I just spent the first 7 weeks or so to get familiar with hattrick and especially the transfer market in general, which is a good thing as it prevents you from making horible transfer decisions or stadium improvements early on (since there is no cash to spend on it).
So, in general, I'm quite happy with the results of the gambit, it has absolutely been a succesful early approach, and would like to thank yndy for suggesting me to use it as undoubtedly I would have done worse with my own approach at that time. [thumbsup]
P.S.:
Something I do like to mention though, is that, while I was looking for my excellent keeper trainee, I also from time to time looked at some poor stamina PMs again, but I never ever even saw one close to costing 30K again, all were going for higher prices which would make the gambit much less profitable. Not sure whether that was because of the time of the season, as I had little problems filling my squad 10 weeks ago...??
And to end my writings here...:
Take care of yourself... and each other. (Ah no those were somebody else's final thoughts of course... ;)).
Thank you Kemal, and it seems it went very well for you, your profits were actually larger than I thought but you like of course micromanaging.
I’ll adjust my short guide based on your comments in the following days. And some comments on your points
Sorry for missing on the price tag for midfielders, it seems that their current form is affecting the sale price so much because there are many other midfielders to choose from. Surprisingly, when looking to the market, the average price is always above Euro 100k (Yanche just sold one for 120k) and they have bids on but I also saw your players listed for 75k and no one bid on them.
I’m sorry about your general form of players, I know it hurts you for now but really things will become much better from now on, form will mostly go up.
Training the keepers will allow you to make some nice profits in a season and by then you can think of the best approach for training in the future. Good luck and I’m looking forward for your future victories in the league
Hmm, take a look at the following situation I encountered when checking up on the strength of the no1 in my competition, he had several players for sale, such as:
Bryan Ries (36102582)
27 years, passable form, healthy
A pleasant guy who is calm and upright.
Has weak experience and passable leadership abilities.
Speciality: Powerful
Nationality: Nederland
Total Skill Index (TSI): 450
Wage: 680 €/week
Owner: zwolle hools
Warnings: 0
Stamina: inadequate Goaltending: wretched
Playmaking: inadequate Passing: disastrous
Winger: passable Defending: poor
Scoring: poor Set Pieces: inadequate
Received a bid of 75000 from tuinmannesalliance.
Or,
Jan-Karel Lardinois (36102578)
24 years, poor form, healthy
A controversial person who is balanced and upright.
Has wretched experience and disastrous leadership abilities.
Nationality: Nederland
Total Skill Index (TSI): 100
Wage: 680 €/week
Owner: zwolle hools
Warnings: 0
Stamina: disastrous Goaltending: wretched
Playmaking: weak Passing: poor
Winger: inadequate Defending: poor
Scoring: passable Set Pieces: passable
Career Goals: 1
Career Hattricks: 0
League goals this season: 0
Cup goals this season: 0
Received a bid of 102000 from tuinmannesalliance
Harris de Kreek (36102579)
26 years, passable form, healthy
A sympathetic guy who is calm and honest.
Has poor experience and poor leadership abilities.
Nationality: Nederland
Total Skill Index (TSI): 400
Wage: 560 €/week
Owner: zwolle hools
Warnings: 0
Stamina: weak Goaltending: disastrous
Playmaking: inadequate Passing: passable
Winger: weak Defending: poor
Scoring: poor Set Pieces: solid
Career Goals: 1
Career Hattricks: 0
League goals this season: 0
Cup goals this season: 0
Received a bid of 60000 from tuinmannesalliance.
And the list continues... both come from the same region, overijssel, and tuinmannesalliance even logged in from the same IP address as zwolle hools, or at least it started with the same numbers as it is partially hidden.
What do you guys think? Should I report to the admins?
Kingreno
28-10-2004, 20:47
Yep kemal, this guy should be kicked out of hattrick. Definately a cheater.
Sure, the prices are ridiculous. It is obviously cheating.
Case has been reported, lets hope the GMs make swift work of this one. :)
Once again, another question for the more experienced hattrickers from manager jilko of De Snaken..
I was wondering whether anyone has knowledge of the ins and outs of doctor specialists in hattrick, as I hired a few of them and didn't notice anything happening with regard to my injuries and the estimated healing times.
During a league match almost 2 weeks ago, my best midfielder got kicked to hospital and his estimated injury time was at that moment 2 weeks, but by next tuesday that estimate was reduced to one week, and since I was playing a crunch match in the weekend, I tried to get him fit by hiring 3 extra doctors. However, it didn't work, and what surprised me that my midfielder actually only was able to play again this tuesday, i.e. having needed exactly the remaining injury time predicted by hattrick *before* I hired the docs.
Since it was already a bit of an older player, and I have 2 more oldies in hospital still (all 26+), I was wondering whether the healing benefits of a doctor are related to the healing rate of each individual player (so that doctors have less use when working with older players), or whether they substract a fixed number of "injury points" each day, regardless of how fast the player would heal without any doctor present.
And if this works with a fixed number, why did my midfielder still needed a full week to recover after I hired the 3 extra docs? Or are these estimates actually values that can range between, for example, 0.1 and 1.9 weeks to be counted as 1 week, meaning that the estimate injury time is usually the time the player will need at best to be able to play again, but that it in most case is more?
If anyone could enlighten me on this subject, thanks! :)
Hi, it's a bit tricky (like most things in Hattrick) and I'm not totally sure, but I think that:
- Yes, the numbers you see are estimates (+1 can be anything between 0.5 and 1.9)
- Younger players heal quicker than older players
- The effect of more doctors is not linear, it works in the same way as extra assistent coaches
- I do think each doctor substracts a fixed number of points, but that older people need more points to heal.
About your players, hiring three docters should have helped getting him fit sooner, but you can only stretch it so far. Maybe you were just unlucky or you needed 10 to get three extra days of, I'm not sure.
Thanks, but I think I'll fire my doctors anyway tomorrow, since the next 4 games after my upcoming one should all be a piece of cake, so I'll just let my oldies heal the natural way.
But yet another thing has come to my attention... is it true that the level of your ys only improves your chances of getting a good player, or do you need a high ys level to ever be able to get a passable or higher statistic from one of your promoted players?
If it only improves the chances, I'll start pulling with my inadequate ys, since I need some players to stand in for key players in friendlies anyway (I'm really scared of injuries now, after the past few weeks... [scared]), and who knows what I'll get out of it.
I went through a period when I was training playmaking and had a good youth training rating where I got decent recruits but since then whilst training shooting and the youth training rating going up to excellant I don't seem to have seen an improvement in recruits. My latest pull only has a TSI rating of 170...
Decided to go for it and pulled my very first ever youthpull, presenting to you the best of Snaken's junior teams, meet the fine, the great, the legendary...:
Jolmer Dolstra (47191278)
18 years, passable form, healthy
A controversial person who is temperamental and upright.
Has disastrous experience and wretched leadership abilities.
Nationality: Nederland
Total Skill Index (TSI): 20
Wage: 500 €/week
Owner: FC De Snaken
Warnings: 0
Stamina: inadequate Goaltending: disastrous
Playmaking: weak Passing: poor
Winger: poor Defending: wretched
Scoring: wretched Set Pieces: wretched
Career Goals: 0
Career Hattricks: 0
League goals this season: 0
Cup goals this season: 0
Mr Dolstra hereby receives the honor of being the worst player ever to have worn the sacred Snaken shirt, and is confident that none shall take that title away from him in the next 2388 years or so. Even the number on the back of his shirt outclasses his TSI...
Better luck next time!
I also tried recenty with my inadequate squad, got something very similar to yours. TSI was 60 IIRC and none of the skills were even inadequate. [lol]
I had an inadequate keeper once from my inaduate YS. As far as I know better YS skills only increase the chance of a better pull. So even your crappy YS can produce an excellent scorer, but chances are slim.
So, you suggest just continue playing these casino games every week? I would not mind an inadequate keeper though.
Kingreno
13-11-2004, 09:43
Mine is solid now and I easily earned the Investments back. In general it is a very good idea to get it up to excellent asap.
quote:Originally posted by akots
So, you suggest just continue playing these casino games every week? I would not mind an inadequate keeper though.
That's basically the strategy that I followed. I pulled every week, most players where total crap but I got some decent ones also.
On top of that I think that the € 2000,- per draw is worth the gamble. Compared to the interest a lot of people pay on their team debts that € 2000,- is the proverbial drop on a hot metal sheet (dutch proverb)
If I am training shooting would this reduce the chances of pulling a decent keeper since my current keeper isn't great and I'm considering trying to replace him over the coming season.
@Dell. AFAIK it wont. The rules don't say anything about a relation between youth pulls and training. My own experience underwrites this, I've been doing winger training from the start and have drawn 2 decent keepers.
Hmm, maybe I should have been drawing keepers as well... if the chance of getting inadequate or better on keeper skill is the same as with any other skill for an outfielder, since the keeper doesn't need secondary skills, he should result in more profitable draws then.
And playing mr Dolstra or any given keeper on an outfield position surely won't make much of a difference in the contribution to the team's effort on the pitch. ;)
I start doing goalkeeper pulls for the next few weeks then in the hope of finding a decent replacement keeper before I start playing important games again.
This is what the hattrick casino gave me today from my inadequate youth squad:
Reid Pitts (47377614)
18 years, passable form, healthy
A pleasant guy who is balanced and dishonest.
Has disastrous experience and passable leadership abilities.
Speciality: Head
Nationality: USA
Total Skill Index (TSI): 10 ([lol])
Wage: 500 US$/week
Owner: Chemists
Warnings: 0
Stamina: poor Goaltending: disastrous
Playmaking: poor Passing: wretched
Winger: wretched Defending: poor
Scoring: poor Set Pieces: poor
Guess you can stop complaining because your pool is twice as good as mine!
Just read today that the cost of stadium expansions will double at the end of the season...
Shabbaman
14-11-2004, 12:45
quote:Originally posted by akots
This is what the hattrick casino gave me today from my inadequate youth squad:
That's not funny. 2 weeks ago I had a player with TSI=6 from my excellent youth squad.
@dell: keepers from youth pulls are generally weaker than field players. Praying for a replacement out of your youth academy will most likely not be fullfilled...
I had a TSI = 0 2 weeks ago...
My YS became solid today, but my pull was total crap and then some.
On the subject of YS keepers, I must have been really lucky :D then a couple of weeks ago. This fine replacement is what I got:
Gertjan Kampen (46486936)
19 years, solid form, healthy
A pleasant guy who is temperamental and dishonest.
Has disastrous experience and inadequate leadership abilities.
Nationality: Nederland
Total Skill Index (TSI): 1 450
Wage: 1 319 €/week
Owner: Dom Ducks
Warnings: 0
Stamina: poor Goaltending: inadequate
Playmaking: disastrous Passing: disastrous
Winger: disastrous Defending: disastrous
Scoring: disastrous Set Pieces: wretched
And last week, a good pull gave me this ok defender:
Mart Schenkel (46959981)
17 years, passable form, healthy
A pleasant guy who is tranquil and dishonest.
Has disastrous experience and weak leadership abilities.
Speciality: Powerful
Nationality: Nederland
Total Skill Index (TSI): 330
Wage: 531 €/week
Owner: Dom Ducks
Warnings: 0
Stamina: weak Goaltending: disastrous
Playmaking: passable Passing: wretched
Winger: weak Defending: inadequate
Scoring: poor Set Pieces: disastrous
I invested 20.000/week almost from the start, so that's finally paying off. The ys went solid last week.
OTOH, I have been training defense almost every week since the beginning more or less three months ago (except for two weeks on goalkeeping), and I only I have had two players (no defenders) going up one notch. So it's not hallelujah all the way [rolleyes]
And another nice enough pull just now :)
Nils Jongbloed (47411165)
19 years, passable form, healthy
A sympathetic guy who is tranquil and honest.
Has disastrous experience and solid leadership abilities.
Speciality: Technical
Nationality: Nederland
Total Skill Index (TSI): 240
Wage: 516 €/week
Owner: Dom Ducks
Warnings: 0
Stamina: weak Goaltending: disastrous
Playmaking: inadequate Passing: poor
Winger: inadequate Defending: weak
Scoring: poor Set Pieces: poor
Career Goals: 0
Career Hattricks: 0
League goals this season: 0
Cup goals this season: 0
I've been wondering how Kemal was doing and took a look at my Supporter statistics for the Dutch IX league.
With 12 victories i na row, he's not in the top for that category where some teams have 16 in a row. Than I got to weekly salaries and the top for division IX is like this:
quote:
1. FC De Snaken IX.587 50 000 EUR
2. m@m IX.923 35 000 EUR
3. Piet`s 11 IX.495 34 000 EUR
4. Bagus Sekali IX.97 34 000 EUR
5. Het zwarte eendje IX.46 33 000 EUR
Then I went to division VIII and found their highest salary to be 35k EUR as well. Then to Division VII and the top salaries there are 42K EUR. Finally in Division VI, Kemal would not make it in the top 20.
How about that Kemal? BTW, my payroll is EUR 37k/week and I'm division V in Romania!
English_brit
11-01-2005, 08:19
lol
Hey, I'm leading one of the supporters's statistics areas for my leagues, nice... so that could be the reason why I've been receiving some weird HT-mail regarding my first keeper, I suppose they think he makes 30K a week or something.
But, to be honest, the manager of the Club is on the payroll as well.. and he's got to make a living too, no?
Seriously though, I think that you will find that my (recent) transfer history might shed some light on my wages, having like 17 or 18 goaltenders in the squad (and still those supporters keep the faith in the board of the club!) has quite some impact on the amount of money spent on wages. :(
Still, if they can be sold for a profit, the extra wages are merely a nuisance... its the actual daytrading that is the real problem, as it is quite boring I can assure you all.
What I'm actually wondering about, is how on earth people in the IXth divison can get 16 wins in a row. My winning streak in the competition is actually 13 now of course, but it was broken by the defeat in round 2 in the cup... since no IX teams reside in the Dutch Cup anymore, how could they ever have 16 in a row then?
Probably from last season. They probably signed up halfway througha season, won all their games but missed outon promotion and then carried on winning until they promoted next season.
Snaken present newest signing, Soren Malmholt
Since selling all those keepers did give me quite some extra cash to spend, and I needed a new signing on my wing the most, I decided to dig deep and buy this guy:
Sören Malmholt (28431366) 1
21 years, weak form, bruised, but training
A controversial person who is balanced and honest.
Has wretched experience and weak leadership abilities.
Speciality: Quick
Nationality: Sverige
Total Skill Index (TSI): 1 010
Wage: 864 €/week including 20% Bonus
Owner: FC De Snaken
Warnings: 0
Stamina: solid Goaltending: disastrous
Playmaking: weak Passing: passable
Winger: excellent Defending: wretched
Scoring: wretched Set Pieces: wretched
Career Goals: 7
Career Hattricks: 0
League goals this season: 4
Cup goals this season: 0
Got him for 221K, and since I do not have that much experience on the transfer market for wingers (I looked for a few days, but prices vary tremendously, and there are not too many good wingers for sale at all it seems) what do you guys think, is he worth that money, or should I do yet another grueling session of buying/selling keepers to make up for this transfer?
i like the passable passing, weak PM is a bit low but will do I suppose. Never bought an excellent winger, but bought some solid ones 5 months ago for 100K, so maybe a bit high but not really overpriced I suppose. PP might be able to shed some light on this one, as former winger trainer.
I don’t even have a winger better than inadequate, my strategy doesn’t involve using wingers. Kemal why did you choose a winger, wouldn’t a midfielder served you better?
Well, my actual aim is to increase my team's offensive capabilities. Since I suspect that hattrick compares team ratings for its calculations on scoring/defending and midfield ratings using more or less the same principle as civ3 does when battles take place, by adding up both team's values and then looking at percentages of the total value, it seemed to me that improving the weakest area in my squad would give a better increase in my total team's capabilities than improving an area I was already performing relatively well in, such as midfield, and most importantly, defense.
If this is besides the truth, which could of course very well be, than still my wingers were crap, and a better player wouldn't hurt there. But I got that idea looking through the Dutch Eredivisie games, where the difference in midfield ratings and the possession rates compared to the possession rates and midfield differences in my own games lead me to believe that the higher the total ratings of the teams, the less influence a single level seems to make. For example,
looking at the match between Spaarnestad and Stiphout Vooruit (matchid 28405335), the possession rate was 45/55 in the 1st, and even 47/53 in the 2nd for Stiphout, while their ratings were Formidable (high) and Brilliant (very low) respectively... a difference of 6 levels. Then, looking at my own performances, for example vs swift boys in my league, matchid 28629284), I enjoyed a 77 and 91% possession rate with midfield ratings of poor(very low) and disastrous (high), a difference of... 6 levels. Which would be a logical result if, for instance, the possession rate is derived by adding up both rankings (say each level is worth 4 points), resulting in my case in a 12 + 36 = 48, and with me bringing in 36 of those 48 points, that would mean about 36/48 = 75% possession (creeping to 91% in the second half probably because of stamina), whereas in the Stiphout game, it would mean a 140 + 164 = 284 points, and with Stiphout bringing in 164 of thsoe points, that would mean 164/284 = about 57% possession rate. Much lower, with the same amount of difference in levels, meaning that the lower your levels in certain areas, the more you suffer from it if your opponent has higher.
As said, it could be total crap what I am proclaiming here, if that is the case, tough luck for me, but the winger would still be a sizeable increase for my squad, even though the money might have been better spent on a different area of the team, as I understand that in principle, midfield is, for now, still the most important part.
Obviously, a striker would have been a better choice at improving the attack strength of the team, but I simply can't afford any forwards that are any significant improvement over my current strikers. HO gives about the same ratings for an excellent/poor striker with little experience as for my passable guys with inadequate, but those excellent guys tend to go for 300K at least. That would mean I'd have to buy a very old player with better skills, who are indeed affordable, but I can't resell those, meaning throwing money away.
But as I did want to use my money to improve the team, instead of letting it rot in the banks, I decided to go for a winger, if I don't like him I'll resell him again, and accept my losses on him (or profit ;)).
Finally, as for improving the midfield, that's kinda the same story as with the strikers... I did look for them, but a problem is that I can't afford to spend stamina training on these guys atm, so that would mean having to buy an excellent stamina PM from the market. Since I already have 4 solids, for a sizeable increase to my team I would either need an excellent PM with good secondaries, or a formidable with poor secondaries.. both of which I simply could not afford with my available cash, as they also needed to have solid/excellent stamina, and though I did bid on them a few times, prices soared when the deadline was getting closer.
So that only left defense and wingers, and since I think my goalkeeper will lift my defensive ratings to passable come next season, there wasn't really an improvement required there either, leaving wingers as the imo best position to improve, and since I was looking for better attack ratings, I prioritized passing, as he will mostly play offensive.
Sorry for the long read, but those were more or less my motivations, I suppose. :)
I havent looked into winger prices a lot lately but 213K seems expensive although the passable passing is a good secondary.
Excellent wingers with slightly worse secondaries sold for 175K - 200K last summer. Prices have gone down since. My excellent 19 year old winger (with no secondary skills to speak of, I have to admit) hasnt received a single bid in almost 2 weeks. Last time he was on the list fot 80K, now even for 75K. Transfer compare shows the last 2 sold of same skill level went for 60-65K. I think that's highway robbery but it appears to be the market price. [cry]
@Yndy: Isn't it that midfield gets the possession and then to become a goal, this possession has to go through some event to the scoring chance? If there is a decent winger, it might improve the probability of winger event? Depending on overall passing apparently? And this event might succeed if there is enough scoring skill and insufficient defending skill of the attacked team?
I've had solid 24- year-old winger with passable passing and inad scoring (quick specialty) purchased for 64K (TSI 1050). This is despite Yndy's advice of buying only trainees but I'm planning to try training him in passing or scoring if I ever get to this.
Edited: This has been the only above passable winger with quick specialty at a reasonable price which I was able to spot for over a month.
Edited again: @ProPain: Can you tell from your experience with market that recently passing has become more essential component of the price compared to what is was previously?
On another forum its a general agreement that the significance of passing has increased significantly and looking at the prices a couple of days ago seemed to show that excellent PM players would sell for half as much without decent passing and there is a visible jump in valuations between inadequate and passable. Basically people are chasing after good secondaries which keep the prices high whilst the other players suffer far more from the end of season drop in demand and go even cheaper.
@ kemal: I believe you're 100% right when saying the calculation in HT is similar to Civ. That's why I joined this game over a year ago! The difference is (and now I'm answering akots in part) that there are two dice rolls. The first depends on the midfield ratings and gives you or the opponent chances. Then there's a probability for a side to be chosen and the second dice roll will compare relevant attack with relevant defense to find out if there's goal or not.
This leads me to believe that the first dice roll (the midfield) is more important than the second and it becomes more important as your attack increases. Also the more experienced Romanian players have this saying which is related precisely to this : "in the last two divisions you only need midfield to win, the next two you need midfield plus attack and only afterwards you start needing all the three".
So without looking in detail at your team Kemal, I'd say focus on your midfield, even buy a midfielder with some wing and passing and play him towards middle.
OTOH reading your situation I beleive you did the reasonable thing.
@akots: not all goals are special events as described above but a number of them can be (estimated up to 4 per match). The winger event is one of the most common. Now regardless of the speculations on the conferences, I beleive a winger needs only wing to create the event (exactly as written in the Rules) and the receiver of the cross-pass needs scoring (attacker or midfielder). Passing for wingers is good because it will contribute to atack ratings regardless of the order given to the winger (offensive, defensive, towards middle).
@all: http://www.hattristics.org is very good if you want to take a look at statistics resulted from following hundreds of games. It can help you estimate the formulas behind from their results. I've read the site several times but still feel there are many other things to learn. If you're having some insights let me know.
Before I make another worthless buy ;), I was wondering if anyone with some experience on the playmaker markets at levels excellent (or higher) could advise me on what a good price would be for an excellent PM with excellent stamina, and with passing ranging from poor or better... would 150K be reasonable?
Thanks in advance. :)
I sold excellent PM's with excellent stamina and weak passing for 260K at the end of the previous season. So if you can get them it's not that bad. I'm now playing two excellent PM's with passable passing, they reach 3.5* in passable form. They are now both excellent form so we'll see if they can get to 4* next sunday. (last sentence just to give you an idea)
I brought an excellent stamina/playmaker with poor passing and weak defence a couple of days ago for £130 000. I probably overpaid slightly but I had the cash and wanted a new IM. His form went from poor to inadequate after playing in the friendly on the next day so he is now probably my best IM.
Thanks for the input people, as I had some fortunes in selling goalkeepers last night, I had some extra cash to spend, so I bought this fellow for 143K (euros), HO rates him 0.6 points higher than my current midfielders, so I'm reasonably content with that, especially since he is Dutch as well, meaning less salary to pay:
Wietse Balyon (39384882)
24 years, inadequate form, healthy
A controversial person who is temperamental and dishonest.
Has poor experience and passable leadership abilities.
Nationality: Nederland
Total Skill Index (TSI): 1 200
Wage: 960 €/week including 20% Bonus
Owner: BiboPenta FC
Warnings: 0
Stamina: excellent Goaltending: disastrous
Playmaking: excellent Passing: poor
Winger: wretched Defending: weak
Scoring: wretched Set Pieces: inadequate
A controversial person who is temperamental and dishonest.
Has poor experience and passable leadership abilities.
Expext some red cards and he is great for your teamspirit [or not]
but hey, who cares :)
Well, I have a full clown for the TS already, so the passable leadership didn't bother me much... I also noticed the temperamental/dishonest combo, but since I prolly won't need him in every match next season, in the VIIIth, the yellow cards aren't that much of a problem, I hope. As for the red cards... that would not be good of course, but the positive side might be he kicks some star players of the other team to hospital...?
Again, the feedback is very much appreciated.. these are still relatively small buys of course, and if I'd resell them now the loss would be marginal, so please feel completely free to offer your opinion, and if he is a lousy player for the midfield because of his character, don't hesitate to say so. :)
Just to illustrate point about passing and general market values:
quote:
John Haines (52591932)
17 years, passable form, healthy
A sympathetic guy who is balanced and upright.
Has disastrous experience and solid leadership abilities.
Speciality: Head
Nationality: USA
Total Skill Index (TSI): 2 260
Wage: 863 US$/week
Owner: Mesa Wanderers
Warnings: 0
Stamina: inadequate Goaltending: disastrous
Playmaking: poor Passing: passable
Winger: passable Defending: weak
Scoring: solid Set Pieces: poor
The guy is on sale now and even considering he will be 18 next season, and with head specialty and good TSI, current bid is 650K! And is likely to end up around 750K or even more. Similar player without head speciality and lacking winger and passing skills completely as well as no leader skill will be probably around 200-300K. Winger skill is more or less useless and passing is only passable. Sorry for an off-toic post but it is just about what value market puts on passing and whether this is justified. [confused]
Edited: And this is a youth pull on 01/13.
It seems to be a demand thing. Everyone wants trainable players with reasonable passing so that when they sell them later on they can get a load of cash for them. The interesting question is what will happen to this demand. Is a bubble which will continue to increase and then burst as people wake up to prices that are just too high and also where more people already have players with decent passing or will it stablise and stay at an acceptable level? I'm considering what to do when I need to buy new players. I'm not sure whether it will be best to avoid this rush for passing and just buy 17 year olds with a high primary skill and hope that in a couple of seasons passing will not be as highly valued.
English_brit
14-01-2005, 19:37
The good secondaries will always be valued highly imo. The only difference in the prices will be a result of many teams having less disposable cash but it will still be the same relatively imo.
I think secondaries will become more and more important in the future and prices express these believes. I think that in training over titanic in the main skill is not efficient due to very high salaries. So it will be more effectvie to train secondaries from then on, which means you need to have the players with good secondaries in the first place. But I guess we're all far away of titanic in any skill.
English_brit
15-01-2005, 01:34
I've got one player that's 2 weeks off brilliant. So yeah, still a fair way to go. :(
Charles Attah-Agyeman [1 accumulated booking]
TSI = 13 810 , 20 years, solid form
Has wretched experience and inadequate leadership abilities [Powerful]
Stamina: solid Keeper: disastrous
Playmaking: outstanding Passing: solid
Winger: inadequate Defending: inadequate
Scoring: poor Set Pieces: disastrous
Hmm, this was at the hattrick announces page when I just looked, but now it has disappeared again... anyone any idea what it says?
quote:
Hattrick announces
17-01-2005 Dos nous tipus d'entrenament
Estem afegint dos nous tipus d'entrenament:
* Passades llargues que dóna entrenament de passades als defenses i als migcampistes. És similar a les "passades curtes", però el afecta els defenses i els migcampistes en comptes dels davanters i els migcampistes, i és un 10-15% menys efectiu (per posició).
* Posicions defensives. Aquest és un altre tipus d'entrenament que afecta els defenses i els migcampistes, però els dóna entrenament en defensa. Bàsicament els jugadors reben formació sobre com col·locar-se quan l'equip està defensant. Com que pots entrenar si fa o no fa el doble de jugadors que amb l'entrenament pur de defensa, aquest nou tipus és aproximadament la meitat d'efectiu en cada jugador.
El propòsit d'aquests dos nous tipus és facilitar l'entrenament de les habilitats secundàries.
[confused]
edit: have not been able to find a translation, but looking at the text, and trying to recocgnise some words, does it seem to suggest two new training types will be introduced (long passing and defensive positioning (?)) to promote the training of secondary skills in hattrick..?
Did they make some mistake and put up an old announcement, or could this be an upcoming event in hattrick that an overambitious HT-mod released to early, by accident. There is no trace of it to be found now anymore..
edit2: thanks plux. Indeed I'm very curious as to what language this might be in indeed, it does seem to be Spanish of some kind, but translation machines give no results so far. Anyways, your spanish is way better than mine, so thanks for making it clear. :)
It looks like some spanish dialect, or maybe it's basque. I dunno, I know a little spanish. Here goes:
It's about two new training types:
- a different sort of passing training (iso short passing), which gives training to defenders and midfielders iso of midfielders and attackers, and is 10-15% less effective.
- Defensive positions. also for midfielders and defenders. About improving the ability to regroup when defending. While double the amount of players are trained, the effects are only half compared to normal defensive training.
I think it's smth like this. Still wonder what language it is, though :)
hmm, very interesting. I agree to the translation. Will ask some collagues tomorrow. It looks more to portuguese to me, cause if it was some northern dialect I would expect it to be more like french.
Maybe it is some internal proposal or something. Defenately a mistake on HT-side.
edit: I was wrong, it was Catalan. Strange I didn't recognize it :(
Global forum says its a bug, but they did remove all the posts that shows the text [hmm]
Seems like thet are covering for something. Or maybe not. The mod said we had to wait for an official response.
quote:18-01-2005 Improved shooting training
In addition to the two new training types mentioned below, we have also made the rarely used Shooting training about 25% more effective than before.
18-01-2005 Two new training types
We are now adding two new training types:
* Through passes which gives defenders and midfielders passing training. It is similar to "Short Passes", but this affects defenders and midfielders instead of forwards and midfielders, and it is 10-15% less effective (per position).
* Defensive positions. This is another training type that affects defenders and midfielders, but this one gives them Defender skill training. Basically your players are trained in how to position themselves while the team is defending. Since you can train roughly twice as many players in defense with this type, compared to pure defense training, it is roughly half as effective per player.
The purpose of these two new types is to further facilitate training of secondary skills.
I wasn't far off, was I? [:p]
Kingreno
18-01-2005, 10:19
For me this will cost me bigtime.[aargh]
I have bougt my trainees now some time ago for their passing skill, selling a formidable or outstanding defender with passable passing in the future would have been great, now I fear there will be far more defenders with a good passing skill.
Nah, why so? Ok, there will be people switching to the new skill, but it still is a secondary. They state it will take twice as long to train with the new skill (or 15% for defense passing) well that give some time to a just. There are not so many people training passing atm, I don't see many switching in the long run. It simply doesn't pay off.
Actually, I think you'll be better of in the future. As much as I can tell,the change will lead to training passing for defenders (and midfielders too) from passable upward. I think the demand for defenders with high defending (outstanding to titanic) and passable passing will increase and these players will be trained in passing.
Same for magnificent+ midfielders with passable passing. I'd say now young defenders wiht passable passing will cost a lot more and than you've made a deal by buying cheaper.
That's my personal impression, again.
So, after seasons of training, Snaken's best trainee Durzynski finally managed to pop to supernatural goaltending, and the board has decided it is time to let him go and start a new training program.
However, I'm hoping experienced users might give me a hand on what the best strategy would be to sell him for as much cash as possible... more specifically, would anyone have some ideas on where I might be able to showcase Durzynski to the teams that would need a keeper like this? Yndy said something a while ago about a heavy ad-campaign for one of his strikers that got him more cash than normal, so lets say that immediately caught my attention. :)
Atm, there really is a big gap between the supernatural keepers it seems, with transfer compare showing keepers going for prices between 4.5 and 5.5M, and really that difference is too huge to let go unnoticed... somehow I need to get people to buy mine for the high-end market price.
As for his exact stats atm, after training update:
quote:
Marcin Durzyñski (30705158)
20 years, solid form, healthy
A sympathetic guy who is balanced and upright.
Has wretched experience and wretched leadership abilities.
Nationality: Polska
Total Skill Index (TSI): 43 950
Wage: 12 072 €/week including 20% Bonus
Owner: FC De Snaken
Warnings: 0
Injuries: Healthy
Stamina: wretched Goaltending: supernatural
Playmaking: disastrous Passing: wretched
Winger: disastrous Defending: wretched
Scoring: disastrous Set Pieces: poor
Solid form is a plus, even though it is very low solid form, but the wretched experience is not good, I think, quite disappointed about that since he has been wretched his entire career at De Snaken.
If anybody could provide any help how to advertise this keeper, or your good players on sale in general, and especially where of course, that would be greatly appreciated. :)
Wow, that is some money he will gather for you. Nice [goodjob]! How many levels did you train him to get to supernatural?
He was trained from excellent, so 6 levels trained. I've put him on the list for 4.9M now, I don't expect to sell him (feel free to bid guys :D) but I don't need the money yet this week, as I want to train my other trainee to magnificent this week (unfortunately they didn't pop together)...
I suppose in the end I will have to settle for about 4.5 though, since he is low supernatural (of course), and only has wretched experience, which probably will push his value down compared to other players on the market.
Melifluous
23-04-2005, 16:53
Never underestimate peoples ability to be stupid, he may well sell.
Damn that must have taken some time to train him.
Whats his salary like?
Melifluous
Fortunately, salary is still doable until the next season starts (but I won't be paying him anymore at that time of course). He earns 12K a week now, will be about 20K next season I think...
And training started at 19-10-2004, when he joined Snaken for a record 567K transferfee.
To give some more exposure to my keeper for polish hattrickers, after talking to yndy about it I decided to post a polish ad for him on the ads section... so I went to Poland, translated his stats to polish, went to ads section... and posted in the Dutch ads section! [lol]
Even though everything was polish, i.e. I couldn't read a thing, the post still ended up on the Dutch transfer fora (in polish!)... oh well shouldn't do those things late at night I guess.. :(
I hope it will... still to receive an offer on him I'm afraid, but the ads are there now indeed.
[yeah]
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Kemal/200552145957_durzynskiclub.jpg
2.23KB
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Kemal/2005521505_durzynskieconomy.jpg
13.6KB
He sold for 4.67M in the end, time for some serious reinforcements for De Snaken now! [dance]
quote:Originally posted by Kemal
Snaken present newest signing, Soren Malmholt
Since selling all those keepers did give me quite some extra cash to spend, and I needed a new signing on my wing the most, I decided to dig deep and buy this guy:
Sören Malmholt (28431366) 1
21 years, weak form, bruised, but training
A controversial person who is balanced and honest.
Has wretched experience and weak leadership abilities.
Speciality: Quick
Nationality: Sverige
Total Skill Index (TSI): 1 010
Wage: 864 €/week including 20% Bonus
Owner: FC De Snaken
Warnings: 0
Stamina: solid Goaltending: disastrous
Playmaking: weak Passing: passable
Winger: excellent Defending: wretched
Scoring: wretched Set Pieces: wretched
Got him for 221K, and since I do not have that much experience on the transfer market for wingers (I looked for a few days, but prices vary tremendously, and there are not too many good wingers for sale at all it seems) what do you guys think, is he worth that money, or should I do yet another grueling session of buying/selling keepers to make up for this transfer?
This was from the end of last season, where there was quite some discussion on whether this was an overpriced buy of me, and the general consensus seemed to be, though you all politely of course told me it was a decent buy :), that this was heavily overpaid.
Of course, you were all right, no way he was worth 221K.
Thankfully, I'm not the only one that has difficulties assessing the real value of wingers, he sold for double the price I bought him:
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Kemal/200555165315_SorenM.jpg
3.9KB
[yeah]
Tubby Rower
23-06-2006, 14:45
wow... [shabba] mentioned how you got rich in another thread, I decided to dig through the forum to find your initial thread. I'm glad I did. I appreciate your write-up on your stamina gambit. I might try to write something up on my initial GK experiences to help other newbies later.
Sorry to dig up an old thread, but I thought that it was worth it [:p]
Shabbaman
23-06-2006, 15:06
It sure is. Major props to both Kemal and Yndy. Hopefully Yndy will write something on his current "Set pieces gambit" later.
And it would be great too if he would explain some things about shooting training and the effects, now that his shooting schedule has finished. :)
Btw, @all: I wouldn't take the stuff on the stamina gambit for granted anymore with the current market. Making profits with solid PMs is next to impossible atm, imho, since either with or without stamina they go for bottom prices. The stuff posted above was from happier HT-market times...
Shabbaman
23-06-2006, 15:30
I think most training schedules have become invalidated, and with next season's stamina changes it might become absurd. That's a whole different discussion though...
quote:Originally posted by Kemal
And it would be great too if he would explain some things about shooting training and the effects, now that his shooting schedule has finished. :)
Btw, @all: I wouldn't take the stuff on the stamina gambit for granted anymore with the current market. Making profits with solid PMs is next to impossible atm, imho, since either with or without stamina they go for bottom prices. The stuff posted above was from happier HT-market times...
This "between" season I lost about 50 k trying a stamina gambit with excelent players. I apparently overpayed.
vBulletin® v3.7.3, Copyright ©2000-2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.