kryszcztov v akots - OPEN TOPIC

[Socrates]

1v1 PBEM #6 - [u]kryszcztov v akots :</u>
version : C3C 1.22
world size : Tiny (increased a little)
land mass : custom (Continents, exactly same regions)
water coverage : custom
climate : custom
temperature : custom
age : custom
barbarians : Raging (no huts)
player 1 - kryszcztov : Greeks
player 2 - akots : Ottomans
AI rivals : none
AI agression : none
available victories : all except Wonder and Diplomatic
difficulty : Emperor
culturally linked start locations : none
respawn AI players : none
preserve random seed : Yes
allow cultural conversions : Yes

map made by : Beam

This game will be played along the RBCiv and Aggie's rules. No chaining ships nor galley hopping.

[Socrates]

STARTING POSITION

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/kryszcztov/200471622655_kryszcztov-akots01 3950BC StartingPosition.JPG
45.86*KB

And there it goes ! A head-to-head killer match with no AI, and no huts to pop. The starting place is rather poor, but at least we start by the sea. With no food bonus in sight, and without knowledge of where to explore first, I decided to settle on turn 1. This revealed a river in the north of Athens, but no food bonus. I set science on Pottery at max, willing to get granaries quickly of course, but also wanting to have a maximum of shots at the SGL's. So the sooner the better.

Two turns afterwards (just played turn 3 - 3850BC), akots still hasn't settled. He is heading at the river, maybe this will lead to a better start for him ? I'm currently praying for barbs to kill him NOW... [lol]

This game has the particularity of us having exactly the same regions to develop : EVERYTHING IS THE SAME !

[Socrates]

CHAPTER ONE, UNIT ONE - THE COLOSSUS

akots eventually settled after moving twice (towards the river with certainty). So his capital was now able to grow to size 12 without any aqueduct, and his industrious trait would make the location powerful. As for me, Athens's opening sequence was : warrior, warrior, settler, and then granary (completed on turn 39 - 2190BC). I learnt Pottery on turn 12 (3400BC), and then started on Writing at max. When Athens built its 1st settler, the known world was like this :

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/kryszcztov/200491313133_kryszcztov-akots02 2950BC ThreeWheats.JPG
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I had found three wheat tiles on grassland by the river, so that spot was top priority for the 2nd city. After some wallbashing about where to place the future cities (@ Beam : good map), I finally made up my mind on this dotmap, with the 2nd city on one of the wheat tiles !! [eek] I thought that it wasn't important to get all three of them in the long term, otherwise it would hurt some other cities (cities not by the sea, too close one another...). Two tiles were already roaded for that purpose, and I sent the worker to chop that forest. And so on turn 23 (2850BC) Sparta was founded ; I would use this city for settlers.

On the science front, I discovered Writing on turn 36 (2310BC), which was fair enough (but the level is low and the map is small). That's where I made my big mistake : I really wanted to do the Republic slingshot once again. akots didn't start with Alphabet ; he lost 2 turns at the beginning (even if he earned more gold then) and got a civil disorder twice (according to him). So I researched Code of Laws, learnt on turn 52 (1700BC). But then akots told me he got Philosophy first, and fortunately there was no rope in my room to hang myself. [wallbash] Remember there are no huts to pop and no AIs to trade with, which means we have to research everything by ourselves. Code of Laws took me too much time, compared to his Alphabet (and he even researched Pottery first). About his capital, I know he built a granary relatively soon (almost sure), but he seems to have missed the wheat tiles. When I got Philosophy on turn 60 (1500BC), I started on Literature at max, hoping to make good use of my scientific trait.

About the settling phase, well, we were stucked in the southern part of a big continent, but were unable to explore it further (I suppose that is the same for him), because a barb camp is there on that mountain tile, and blocks the units. What's worse, we don't have any luxury in that part of the world, though I have already seen some gems on an island. Cities were founded as quickly as I could, without neglecting the workers :
- Thermopylae on turn 39 (2190BC) ;
- Corinth on turn 52 (1700BC) ;
- Delphi on turn 58 (1550BC) ;
- Pharsalos on turn 70 (1250BC).
All these cities were producing either settlers, workers or warriors. I didn't feel the need to get hoplites now.

Athens's borders destroyed a barb camp on the south island at some point, and one barb warrior died while attacking one of mine in the north. On turn 72 (1200BC) I got Literature, which allowed me to build cheap libraries. I think there are vital in this game. I decided to research Republic now, which would be helped by some first libraries, and also by...

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/kryszcztov/2004913132410_kryszcztov-akots03 1075BC Colossus.JPG
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Yes, I decided to get this wonder in my capital (built on turn 77 - 1075BC), to get a lot of free gold for a very long timespan. No AI meant it was akots or me (or no one), so I decided it would be me. I somehow feel gold is more important than shields in this game, since no one is supposed to make a lossless ferrying of troops between both continents until we can safely cross the ocean. So nevermind Pyramids, see you later ! [lol]

And so ended Chapter One, Unit One (first English lesson at school, back in 1989) : after years of Civ3 frustration, I eventually came back to building the wonder I wanted most when I was playing Civ1 and Civ2. Nostalgia...

[Socrates]

SCIENCE IS GOOD

With the Colossus in my hands it was time to speed up research, so as to catch up akots, who had profitted from the Philosophy free tech. Things were looking good on turn 81 (975BC) when Athens built its library ; all the other cities were also on libraries. Soon afterwards akots proclamed the Ottoman Republic ; he had indeed taken a good advantage over me. I had to wait until turn 90 (750BC) to eventually learn Republic (remember that we couldn't count on tech discount, since we were on our own until we'd meet), and I went into anarchy right away.

The anarchy was interesting enough, since I was able to discover Masonry during the 5 turns of these troubled times. [cool] Just with some scientists here and there, where it was possible to have some. Of course some cities starved a little (no luxury yet encountered on the main landmass !). On turn 95 (650BC) I proclamed the Athenian Republic, and all was better.

I was now discovering technologies every 4 turns, making some bucks at the same time. And so I got Ceremonial Burial on turn 99, Map Making on turn 103, Mathematics on turn 107.

During all that time the settling phase continued :
- Knossos on turn 78 (1050BC) ;
- Argos on turn 81 (975BC) ;
- Mycenae on turn 91 (730BC) ;
- Herakleia on turn 107 (410BC).

akots completed the Mausoleum of Mausollos on turn 95 (650BC), with which he was happy. But he had a strategy : to concentrate his power in his central capital (by the river, remember). And so he joined many workers that I suppose weren't needed anymore (industrious powa !) in the city, thus quickly getting it at size 12 !! [eek] Talk about a monster ! I don't know how he managed to get all the people happy there, but the benefits were clear : he soon became first in production and commerce (in which I had been the leader during many turns before, except when he became a President). I could now fear something : him trying to grab some precious wonders without competition. All in all, a smart move !

The path to the north of the continent was blocked by a barbarian camp on a mountain tile, which I eventually destroyed with a standard warrior. [blush] This allowed me to found the latest mentioned city and explore further north. Here is a pic of that turn (turn 97 - 610BC), but oddly three cities don't fully show up with the zoom out option.

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/kryszcztov/2004921144314_kryszcztov-akots04 610BC Greece.JPG
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[Beam]

Good to read you solved the first part of the puzzle. Thanks for the spoiler, this map took quite some time to make. :)

Interesting, you didn't use the Iron for Swordies to take the barbcamp?

And techs every 4 turns, wow. How you manage to do that?

[Socrates]

Actually I have so far not discovered Iron Working. [blush] So I don't know where the iron is. And yes, it took me 1 warrior to kick the barbs' butt : I had plenty of idle warriors, and the barbs are very few and sleepy here. I think I only saw one of them coming out of this particular camp. [???]

Techs every 4 turns ? Well, I'm in Republic, have the Colossus, and am currently discovering "outdated" techs. I even have to put science at 10% the last turn or so. As far as I know, akots is also discovering techs every 4 turns. I think the game was a little screwed by the map-size bug, but I'm not sure.

[Socrates]

THE MAUSOLEUM OF DOOM

I resigned to akots yesterday, so this is essentially the last chapter to this game. Because of no AI, there isn't much to say. What I built in each city is fully described in the text file to be posted.

I continued to expand slowly, I used Sparta's wheats to get some settlers, but I didn't make for the luxes on islands at first, what a crucial mistake. Instead I settled in the north of my continent, cities that would always be junk. I went for full builder mode in every city, building : libraries, marketplaces, temples, harbours, granaries, cathedrals, universities, barracks. Some improvements weren't really needed but I found out they would be needed when I have all the luxes. The irony is that I have never been able to have them all. :(

I built no military at all, I just relied on the few warriors I had, and I started to crank out hoplites lately. Meanwhile science was pretty OK, I was discovering techs every 4 or 5 turns. I made the mistake to research Chivalry, but I didn't use it (no knight and no Templar). I entered the Middle Ages on turn 140 (250AD), and got Monotheism for free.

akots was doing far better, thanks to the previously mentionned strategy : concentrating the power in the capital is a huge improvement on such a tiny map !! He built the Mausoleum, which enabled Istanbul to get more citizens for "free". The other cities built some workers which quickly joined Istanbul, and very soon I had to face a size 12 city !! Well, I didn't have to wait for long. He first rush-built the Lighthouse in Iznik, which would surely allow him to find me quicker. Then Istanbul built the Pyramids on turn 118 (190BC), which triggered his Golden Age ! On turn 126 (30BC) this city built the Statue of Zeus, at a time when I was far from connecting my ivory. [cry] On turn 148 (330AD) it built Copernicus' Observatory, at a time when I was in the early Middle Ages. [cry] [cry] Then it started on Sun Tzu, but was never completed because I abandonned the game.

On turn 156 (410AD) akots met me, established embassy, and immediately declared war on me. He landed 3 ancient cavalries and 1 mace in the north, where I was busy finishing my settlement. [crazyeye] On turn 158 (430AD) a hoplite survived an attack, and I was off in my Golden Age at last. I managed to kill his units by attacking them wounded with warriors and hoplites (!). But on turn 160 a newly founded city named Troy was auto-razed. :( On turn 162 he captured Thelassonica, a city I founded on an island for gems. :( From then on, I knew there was little point in hoping anything, so I played even more passively, and waited for the crush. On turn 163 Mycenae, a city around the equator that was struggling for productivity, was razed.

Just after that, on turn 164 (490AD), Argos completed the Forbidden Palace, but it was already too late, and it didn't prove to be a really good location for it. [blush2] I started to build it far from the capital and quite late, and so it took me ages to build it.

Well, I was building my improvements and some hoplites in Athens, but on turn 170 (550AD) akots now had 1 musketman and several ancient cavalries on my continent and was starting to pillage my tiles. I had nothing but hoplites. I had no horses and didn't even know Gunpowder. [lol] That was a nice moment to stop the game. Sipahi were around the corner...

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/kryszcztov/20041114135228_kryszcztov-akots05 550AD Invasion.JPG
192.12*KB

On this pic you can see that I had only 2 luxes (furs and ivory). The silks couldn't be connected before marines, because it was on a 2-tile island, with 2 barb camps !! [eek] Iron is just on Argos's tile, the FP location. Horses are missing, and saltpeter isn't known and appears not to be available, or so says akots. Only the 2 cities near the Ottoman units are really defended.

[Socrates]

Well I just checked, and it appears the world size bug didn't strike the science pace at least (and the OCN limit). I thought it did, but both this game and a random game started on a tiny map on Emperor require 14 turns for Pottery with 3 beakers. So I was wrong, but still, I'm puzzled as why we were able to research techs every 4 turns or almost after some point. The map being quite poor in resources, it is surely odd, but maybe it was a counter-effect ? Start slowly and then, well we have the cities to research quickly ?

As for my game, well I did play badly and passively. I can think of several reasons, minor or major points :
- I lost the Philosophy race because I wanted to do the Republic slingshot. Alphabet costs far less than Code of Laws, but it didn't seem to have struck me. That's already many turns of wasted research.
- akots used the concentrating strategy TM. The smartest move I've ever seen for months !! Congrats ! [thumbsup] It just proved that akots has more flexibility in his playstyle than me, as will be shown later. I essentially didn't find out how to play a tiny map. This cunning move allowed him to grab the Pyramids and the Statue of Zeus, with a Golden Age to complete an early FP. Decisive factor to victory. MoM = very good wonder on a tiny map.
- I researched Chivalry, no comment.
- I settled in useless places before grabbing some luxuries. I sometimes undervalue the luxuries, silly me.
- I didn't build enough workers, a bit more would have been appreciated. And junk cities should have provided them, instead of forever building libraries...

All in all, I played too academically along my boring style, something I hate to think of. Quite frustrating to see one's empire being so asleep. A bit of an irony because in RL, the Ottomans were more sleepy than the Greeks at their height ! Next time I'll play better, that's for sure. Until then I'm taking a small 1v1 break, since my only PBEM now is the Swimming Pool. I'll play some conquests and some mods before getting back to 1v1. I already have my next opponent, for a special PBEM, stay tuned !!

[b]Download Attachment: icon_paperclip.gif kryszcztov-akots.txt (http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/kryszcztov/20041114142424_kryszcztov-akots.txt)
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[Pastorius]

Wonder who that opponent is [hmm]

Anyway, too bad with your loss there man. I would say that building few defensive units is a gamble in a 101 game against a human, but I havent played one yet myself, so I really wouldnt know

[akots]

It was a good tech and luxury race game essentially! Very nice one, I liked it a lot. Thanks for playing it with me!

Ottomans were researching at 4-turn rate essentially since the Republic was discovered and revolt has been finished. By the end of the game, I was 2 turns away from metallurgy (with Navigation) and 4 more turns away from Military Tradition. With plently of spare cash. So, in about 8 turns, Greece will be swarmed with about 20 or so Sipahi (upgraded from accumulated horsemen). Also, there were a few more muskets heading to pillage. Pillaging during your opponent Golden Age is a great fun! [evil]