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Socrates
07-07-2004, 17:33
1v1 PBEM #5 - [u]kryszcztov v Beam :</u>
version : C3C 1.22
world size : Standard
land mass : Archipelago
water coverage : unspecified
climate : unspecified
temperature : unspecified
age : unspecified
barbarians : unspecified
player 1 - kryszcztov : Byzantines
player 2 - Beam : English
AI rivals : 6 (unspecified)
AI agression : Normal
available victories : all except Wonder
difficulty : Demi-God
culturally linked start locations : No
respawn AI players : No
preserve random seed : Yes
allow cultural conversions : Yes

map made by : Banzai

This game will be played along the RBCiv and Aggie's rules.

Socrates
07-07-2004, 17:37
STARTING POSITION

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/kryszcztov/200477163358_kryszcztov-Beam01 3950BC StartingPosition.JPG
57.82KB

Here we go with the Byzantines again ! :D I have a special plan with them, but will keep some of my secrets for me, maybe you know why... [evil] The worker went on the cow, revealed nothing extraordinary, and so I settled in 3950BC. I set science on Writing at max.

Socrates
07-07-2004, 17:55
BLITZ TO WRITING

Constantinople built 2 curraghs first, the 1st one going northwards, the 2nd one southwards. On turn 11 (3450BC) expanding borders popped up a hut, and I was lucky to get Ceremonial Burial. [goodjob] This is exactly the kind of goody that I could have dreamt of, as future events will show. Meanwhile, Beam told me that he got barbs, which immediately killed his worker. :( Randomness has struck ! I hope Civ4 will handle such stupid spawning barbs better.

The civs I met were the ones I wanted to meet (I suppose I have 3 AIs in my part of the world, same for Beam). I met the Russians in the north-east (turn 13), the Portuguese in the south (turn 22), and the Egyptians in the north-west (turn 25). Why am I happy with that ? Because I need Pottery ! And both Russians and Portuguese have this tech on turn 1. So, upon the discovery of Portugal, I gave my Ceremonial Burial to the Portuguese and got Pottery + their whole 60 gold. [goodjob] No need to give Alphabet to the Russians ! The money will be very valuable too... As for Beam, he has Pottery as a starting tech, so that's a different story.

Meanwhile we both discovered some odd stuff on this map... Banzai, what is that ruin doing a few tiles away from my capital ? :D And why so many volcanoes ? [}:)] There are surely other weird things to discover ; too bad that Civ3 doesn't allow scripts ! ;)

In my capital, after the 2 curraghs, I built a worker (turn 16) ; this is becoming my new way of doing when I want the good tiles to be improved quickly (when I'm not industrious). That will pay over time, I guess. Then I built a granary (turn 26), and prepared for a 6-turn factory (only one irrigated cow grassland). Note that at this point I'm still in a kind of a farmer/seaman gambit. Then I built warriors and settlers alternatively.

Adrianople was founded on turn 34, by the river and by the sea. And on turn 36 (2310BC) I discovered Writing ! :) Quite fast, thanks to heavy micro-managing (sorry for those who don't like it, but the map appealed much for that). I then sailed for Code of Laws at max too. Now time to cross my fingers.

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/kryszcztov/20047716553_kryszcztov-Beam02 2310BC Writing.JPG
51.27*KB

Pastorius
07-07-2004, 20:17
Me want see weird map. Me like screeny very much. yes.
Me want learn seaman gambit. Explain. You. Thank you please.


:D

Socrates
07-07-2004, 23:47
LOL. :D Me think Beam don't put screenies of weird map in spoiler too... [mischief]

Don't worry, I'm waiting for my whole island to be discovered, and then I'll show it to you. Seaman gambit ? Err... well it just went through my (ill) head today : basically, at that point, I had built 2 curraghs (that's for the "seaman" part), and 1 worker and a granary (that's for the "farmer" part). We usually call that a "gambit" because it is a risk to have cities unprotected by military units. Now I said it was "kind of" a gambit because such tactics can be developped until many cities are founded, a philosophy that I didn't follow here, because I spotted 2 barb camps not far from me... Well, you see, nothing great to learn, just that I built no land military unit before some time. :)

Banzai
08-07-2004, 00:16
You found a ruin? There must be an enemy civ nearby! Hide for cover!
Oh wait.. you have contacted nearby neighbours already.. hmm.. maybe it are the remains of an ancient civilization?

Hey.. you wanted some surprises on the map.. seems you have found one!
It did scared Beam for a while! heheh

Why so many vulcano's? well.. you wanted a rich starting area.. vulcano's are the basis for fertile land, so I just had to put them in...

Good luck!

Socrates
08-07-2004, 02:02
LOL. Volcanoes aren't good tiles in C3C in my opinion. I prefered how they were in that Civ2 scenario about Atlantis, they were a lot richer. But anyway the starting position is good enough.

Well, I don't know what Beam did, but I haven't been on the tile of the ruins yet. Maybe it's a goodie, maybe not, maybe nothing ? I will be careful anyway...

Some barbs are currently chasing one of my warriors. [help]

Pastorius
08-07-2004, 17:07
[lol] Run Forest, RUN! :D

Oh, so the seaman part was just the two curraghs. I knew the basics of the farmer gambit though I ve never got the nerves to try it out

Socrates
25-07-2004, 14:58
A FAILING GAMBIT

Constantinople built settlers and warriors alternatively, ie. 2 warriors and 1 settler every 6 turns. The new cities all built a worker to improve the surrounding terrain.

I tried to reach Code of Laws as fast as I could, and discovered it on turn 56 (1600BC). That's 20 turns to get that tech (quite long on Demi-God), which is partially due to the settler factory delivering 1 settler every 6 turns only.

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/kryszcztov/2004725134032_kryszcztov-Beam03 1600BC CodeOfLaws.JPG
52.28KB

I then put all my efforts on Philosophy at maximum speed, hoping that Beam wouldn't go for it, or that he would be slower than me.

Meanwhile, I sent my 2 curraghs across the ocean, one sailing westwards, the other one eastwards. The former one quickly sank, but the latter one successfully reached Beam's part of the world on turn 60 (1500BC). [goodjob] It had to survive several turns on ocean tiles, but thanks to seafearing odds, it made it through.

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/kryszcztov/200472513442_kryszcztov-Beam04 1500BC AcrossTheOcean.JPG
58.61KB

AIs started to play fooly as well (that was to be expected). The Russians declared war on me on turn 46, and the Portuguese on turn 61. I wasn't very tempted to give them Alphabet or Code of Laws. :D The Russians also succeeded in completing the Colossus in Moscow on turn 51.

I continued to settle my island :
Caesarea on turn 40 ;
Nicaea on turn 46 (popping up a hut : 25 gold) ;
Varna on turn 55 ;
Smyrna on turn 62.
I lost a few warriors to barbs in the process, and suffered one pillage in Varna.

On turn 63 (1425BC) I met Beam. The bad thing is that I immediately discovered Philosophy, 1 turn prior to my scientists' expectations. I quickly realized what it meant : I had lost my Philosophy gambit. :(

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/kryszcztov/200472513530_kryszcztov-Beam05 1425BC Philosophy.JPG
53.2KB

This saddened me a lot, as I was pretty sure that I had a chance to grab it first. Beam had lost 1 worker early in the game, and may not have gone for Writing at max (but maybe he has ?). And I soon saw that London was a very small city, with many unimproved tiles. This made me wonder how he could have reached this result... I'm thinking of AI trading of course. I'll see when the game is over.

I hesitated a lot before going for Literature at max. I was pretty sure that Beam picked up Map Making for free, all the more as that tech seemed quite cheap.

Plux
25-07-2004, 15:10
Bad luck :(. Time for a new strategy..?

Socrates
25-07-2004, 15:38
That's safe to say I'm a bit pissed off by that bad luck, or should I say : a winning feeling by Beam (well done !). Well you could have safely bet on a quick revolution to Republic if I had had Philosophy first. Now I don't think I'm gonna lose my beakers on that expensive tech. But the rest of my main plan isn't changed a lot : going to Literature was part of it, and building a certain wonder as well. Otherwise, the Great Lighthouse is the thing I don't really know what to do about ; I want to meet the other civs first, and then make up my mind.

About the little islands that you can see around my starting one, they don't have many resources, are quite far from my capital, and quite small. I don't think they're worth a quick settling. Any idea ?

Stapel
06-08-2004, 14:17
Krys,

Why didn't you settle on the gold hill??? Massive extra funding wasted now!

Socrates
06-08-2004, 15:59
quote:Originally posted by Stapel

Krys,

Why didn't you settle on the gold hill??? Massive extra funding wasted now!

After a quick thought, a nice idea. I don't know, it didn't strike me. That tile is currently giving me 1 food, 2 shields and 5 gold IIRC (4+1+1-1). But settling there first would have given me a lot more gold on the first dozens of turns for sure. I can answer you on 2 levels : with knowledge of the map (I'll have to see if the city pattern won't suffer), or without it (like ingame) : then it's a bet. I can put another city in the north (3 tiles away), but I'll first show you the entire island and I'll see.

Socrates
14-09-2004, 01:17
ONTO THE PTOLEMAIC HERITAGE

So I now knew Beam, and was about to explore the other part of the world. Beam immediately established an embassy with me, which saved me some bucks. On turn 68 (1300BC) I founded Heraclea, which destroyed 2 barb camps and popped a warrior in a hut. That was the last city I would found on the Byzantine island. Here was my island on that turn :

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/kryszcztov/2004913235125_kryszcztov-Beam06 1300BC StartingIsland.JPG
183.87*KB

I met the Persians on turn 71 in the north of Beam. On the following turn I popped the last hut on my island (barbs). Then on the same IT both the Egyptians and the Portuguese triggered their Golden Age through wonders (unless against barbs before), with respectively the Pyramids and the Great Lighthouse. On turn 73 (1175BC) I discovered Literature, just to notice that Beam already knew it.

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/kryszcztov/200491323576_kryszcztov-Beam07 1175BC Literature.JPG
52.37*KB

It looks like the other part of the world had developped faster, surely due to some trading (I hadn't made any tech deal with any AI yet). I signed peace with the Portuguese, giving Philosophy to get Map Making + 13 gold. The crucial Map Making tech would allow me to settle some islands around, which was still worth it (at least that close 2-tile island !!). I set science on Republic at max, but 2 turns later I stopped researching anything when I saw that both the Persians and Beam had Literature and Code of Laws (and thus could research Republic quickly). The Persians also started to build the Great Library, but Constantinople was already on it with a prebuild.

A little while after that, when I had some money, I established an embassy with the Persians and so could have a one-time look at Persepolis : it had a decent and promising vicinity, but the AI was totally messing with it, with many irrigated grasslands so that the Library was due in a lot of turns. I couldn't miss it except whatever nasty surprise the game could throw in. On turn 91 I met the Japanese with my curragh, but the brave ship was sunk by Beam just after that, cutting my effort to reach China. I was somewhat pissed off at being sneak-attacked without any warning, and I would miss the Chinese for some time now, but it had one nice effect which I first underestimated : war happiness ! [goodjob] Beam had just gifted me with a gold-per-turn present which would grow turn after turn, and would last for a very long time, since we now were in a phoney war. I wonder if he thought of that actually. [hmm]

I was now slowly settling the islands and sending my warriors to the overseas huts that the AIs hadn't popped yet. And so were founded Trebizond on turn 92 (the close island, a promising future for commerce) and Chalcedon on turn 97. A warrior popped Mysticism in a hut. And finally on turn 98 (590BC) Constantinople completed the Great Library, which I really think is a must-have on a pelago map.

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/kryszcztov/200491401523_kryszcztov-Beam08 590BC GreatLibrary.JPG
63.97*KB

The wonder was desperately needed now, since I was lacking many improvements. I also signed a RoP with the Egyptians for some pay-per-turn agreement. Yes, the AIs always pay the civ with the strong dromon to come. [lol]

Socrates
14-09-2004, 16:12
THE LIBRARY OR HOW A SCIENCE SYMBOL MAKES YOU THE WEALTHIEST

I didn't have to wait to get the results from my dear wonder of course, and the following turn I got Masonry, Wheel, Warrior Code, Iron Working, Mathematics, Horseback Riding, Polytheism, Currency, Republic, Monarchy and Construction. [goodjob] I entered the Middle Ages and got Feudalism as my free tech. I popped an overseas hut, and threw my old empire into Anarchy (6 turns). I would eventually get many more techs until the Library's obsolescence.

During the anarchy period I popped 3 overseas huts, all of them spawned barbs. [blush2] And on turn 105 (450BC) the Byzantine Republic was proclamed ! [cool] At that point only Beam was still stucked in Despotism. And I think the Russians were in Feudalism for some time. On the following turn I signed peace with them, and signed a RoP soon afterwards. I now started to get much gold and some luxes from other civs. The goal was now to build and rush improvements like mad in every city. I would check Beam's military strength from time to time, but for the moment it was still OK.

The other tiny islands around Byantium were then quickly settled :
- Sardica on turn 110 ;
- Naissus on turn 111 ;
- Dyrrachium on turn 112 ;
- Septum on turn 116.
On turn 119 (170BC) I signed a RoP with many civs getting even more gold. The Russians then settled on Byzantium on turn 125 (50BC), next to the northern volcano. Beam and I hadn't settled there of course, but the AIs just don't care. My hope is to get it through culture flip someday and use it to build units exclusively. No need to invest there ! :D

On turn 130 (50AD) I was once again pissed off because Constantinople had to switch from a wonder prebuild to a standard improvement, losing many shields. In fact I wanted the Sistine Chapel there, so as not to be luxury-dependant, but I lacked Theology on that turn. To add insult to injury, I learnt that tech on the following turn, but that was too late !! [why isn't there a "mad" smiley at CDZ ?]

The barb camp that had been spawning barbs for ages by now on the western island was destroyed by my borders, and so it was now time to settle there. I sent 8 pikemen over there, took care not to trigger my Golden Age with dromons.

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/kryszcztov/2004914145757_kryszcztov-Beam09 170AD WesternIsland.JPG
60.91*KB

I lost 1 unit to the barbs, and eventually founded Nicomedia on turn 138. In the meantime, on turn 137 (190AD) the Persians got Printing Press ; so I gave them contact with the Japanese (located in the same part of the world !) and some gold to get contact with the Chinese. :)

Finally on turn 139 (230AD) the Library became obsolete. The techs I got in the Middle Ages include : Engineering, Monotheism, Invention, Theology, Chivalry, Gunpowder, Printing Press, Education and Chemistry. All the saved gold was used for rushing libraries and other really needed improvements in some cities (like in the city planned to build the Forbidden Palace, or like the library and the university rushed on a tiny island, to counter the Russian cultural aggression). That left me with a huge treasury as well, that I could use for rushing from time to time... and that could allow me to set science at 100% for a long time to come. I resigned a RoP with many civs, getting some change, and started to research again : Astronomy !

On a sidenote, I must express my puzzled state of mind, as to what Beam is up to. Much of his mother island is still under-developped, according to the right-click of my mouse, his cities are way less populated than mine (though now catching up a little). He now is in Republic of course, but his military doesn't seem to be impressive (unless I'm biaised by too many Byzantine defense and dromons). And he hasn't waged a war against either of his 3 neighbours. He surely kept up well in science, but I'm now at least at his level. Where he was faster than me is in settling the little islands. But none of them provides any luxury, they are quite small, quite distant from the capital. And now my islands are starting to kick ass.
SO WHAT'S UP, BEAM ? [???] That makes me wonder which way to use...

Plux
14-09-2004, 17:37
Grand writeup :). One lesson though, I don't think beating barbs with your UU can get you in a GA.

Socrates
14-09-2004, 17:54
quote:Originally posted by Plux

Grand writeup :). One lesson though, I don't think beating barbs with your UU can get you in a GA.

Well, killing them does trigger a Golden Age, but redlining them does not. I forgot about redlining them with my dromons, but oh well... [blush] But you can't get a MGL from barbs. Do I stand correct ?

About Beam, I think he has to punch me in the face, and the sooner the better. So I will now be careful with my military, and check when Navigation and Military Tradition are around (I can count on AIs to research both of them quickly). By then Beam will be able to come at any time, and so I'll have to be sure of destroying his forces at once. Fortunately dromons aren't obsolete with Astronomy... maybe with Magnetism ?

akots
14-09-2004, 18:10
Just curious, if you have that loads of cash, why don't you rush some units instead and go kill Beam?

Socrates
14-09-2004, 18:15
quote:Originally posted by akots

Just curious, if you have that loads of cash, why don't you rush some units instead and go kill Beam?

I thought I'd never have to answer that one. [blush] Well, I'd like to go and kill Beal, but my ships can't cross the ocean yet. Beam surely has more units than me, so I'm afraid of getting there too. And I'd need to build an entire army, whereas I can wait for Beam on my island with fewer units.

Q : Am I playing PBEMs totally wrong ?

akots
14-09-2004, 19:22
[lol]

I'm an inexperienced newbie compared to you, man. You probably know what you're doing a way better. :)

Socrates
14-09-2004, 20:00
quote:Originally posted by akots

[lol]

I'm an inexperienced newbie compared to you, man. You probably know what you're doing a way better. :)

The question wasn't for you only, but I have to disagree with you on the newbieness you're talking about. I'm sure you're a fair player, and I'm sure you're capable of winning against me (I've never thought of being better than you in our common game) or knowing what to do and me not. But that wasn't my central point ; my point is about how to handle PBEMs. I'm far better in solo games than in PBEMs, there's now no doubt about it, and it is completely logical. When it comes to PBEMs, I once again find the uneasy feeling I get when playing RTS games. I plain suck at those games because I don't know how to effectively play them (though some are nice to play), and that has to do with the way I play. You can here see that I like to develop nicely but quickly, ie. I'm a builder. [blush2] And I'm tempted to attack Beam once I'll have a significant advantage in every part of the game. In RTS I usually attack when I have the last units, but that rarely works. Here I'm tempted to go for a spaceship victory, but I know it won't work, I have that feeling. I must change my habits. I must react, I must be aware of Beam's intentions. That's why I'm wondering if I play my games the wrong way.

To be short : I know how to do to build a well-developped empire faster than many people, but I don't think I know how to win a 1v1 game. Beam may be preparing an army I won't be able to stop. We'll see how it turns out...

Socrates
21-09-2004, 21:13
[FRENCH RANT]

OK, I've just opened the save after Beam has razed Heraclea on my main island (see his updated spoiler for sure ;) ), and I'm once again mad at what it leads to. My wonder prebuild, the Battlefield Medicine, was changed to a musketman during the IT without my permission. The reason : with Heraclea gone, I only have 4 hospitals left. WTF ??! [saiyan] This is plain stupid, we can still build the swordsmen we started when our iron is lost, so why not the same here ? And why wasn't I able to change it myself ? And why wasn't it changed to the Universal Suffrage ? I've just lost a few hundred shields for the 3rd time in the game !! [cry]

And WTF with those craters ? I don't who got the idea, but it's plain stupid and unrealistic ! My empire was crippled just by naval bombardment, just like the whole Europe in the 18th century... [mischief] Destroying the tile improvements is already powerful, but now we have to de-pollute the area. Pfff...

Of course I don't come back to how PBEMs work, I'm getting tired of it. Now I just have to play this turn, with a splendid musketman instead of the ToE to come soon, and with Beam kicking my butt at the same time. I don't know about you all, but I'm trying to play my games along my way, but it seems only the good old RTS playstyle seems to work in PBEMs. Bah, that was just a rant into nowhere... [slay]

Grille
22-09-2004, 23:05
Now you've lured me in (-&gt;'obsolete' UU thing)

Dromons should become obsolete with astronomy. If there hasn't been a GA yet, you *should* have both the old dromons and their modern replacement (caravels) as build options. Assuming you want to continue ordering dromons, you would probably end up getting caravels anyways (at least that would be the analogy to my Enkidu-pike problem).
What is more, caravels don't need resources, so the problem may be even more annoying in your game (that is, in case your plans asked for more dromons after astronomy), so...;)
quote:
[why isn't there a "mad" smiley at CDZ ?]

a suitable smiley comment could look like:
[mad],
[mad2]
or
[mad3] (I prefer this one for my Enkidu/pike mess!)

Of course, I'd be interested if you could get dromons after astronomy.



Erm, another thing; Plux is right, no??
Unless you refer to Beam=barb...[lol]
quote:Originally posted by kryszcztov

quote:Originally posted by Plux

Grand writeup :). One lesson though, I don't think beating barbs with your UU can get you in a GA.

Well, killing them does trigger a Golden Age, but redlining them does not. I forgot about redlining them with my dromons, but oh well... [blush] But you can't get a MGL from barbs. Do I stand correct ?

Socrates
22-09-2004, 23:27
In fact, as I'll tell when I make my spoiler, I was able to build dromons until I triggered my Golden Age, after which this option wasn't available anymore. But there is a bug : each turn I'd discover a new tech, the program would change the dromon production into a caravel/galleon production during the IT and without a word from me. [rant] So each time I would change back to dromon, but of course when I was about to produce it, I would lose 1 turn of production. This happened a few times but it's not the only bug I encountered in this game.

I must admit that I triggered a Golden Age many turns ago, well before now, with one of my new dromons. I killed a ship, which I suppose was barbarian but I can't remember well (maybe it was Beam's wandering one ??), and I was surprised (as usual) to see the Golden Age popup. Because I really didn't want it at that time, I decided to replay the turn without triggering the Golden Age. I really wish there was a popup saying "A victory with this unit would trigger our Golden Age, do we continue ?" Half of the time I don't remember that UUs trigger it, and I know some experienced players are often surprised too. Now I apologize to Beam and hope he won't mind at all. As for triggering a Golden Age with barbs, I'll do a test to see if it works.

Grille
22-09-2004, 23:44
That's quite interesting, because now I suspect that player one *could* build an obsolete UU (with the new tech production change exception). But player 2(+) cannot do anything about it, production just gets automatically updated during IT.

About GA-test:
Play Maya with raging barbs. You'd get happy with tons of "Barbarian chiefdoms" (slave workers) from Jav-thrower attacks aganist Barbs w/o triggering the GA. That's a promise!:)

[/threadjack;)]

Socrates
24-09-2004, 17:42
TAKING THE LEAD

After this rant into nowhere, I need to resume my story. It's getting very interesting...

I left you with the obsolescence of the Great Library on turn 139. The goal was now to reach the Industrial Ages as fast as I could, grabbing the right wonders, and taking the lead over Beam. I was a bit annoyed by some civil disorders, some being just oops-ish, and another coming from the end of a lux deal and the way PBEM is handled. On turn 144 (290AD) I discovered Astronomy first, and then started on Physics, which I discovered first on turn 149 (340AD). In the meantime I was very pissed off because the Egyptians completed the Sistine Chapel (which I had formerly wanted), and the Persians Copernicus's Observatory (which I REALLY wanted in my capital). Constantinople lost a lot of shields in this cascade nonsense. [cry]

I made some good deals on turn 151, getting Banking, Metallurgy, Music Theory, and furs, gems, dyes, along with money. On turn 153 (380AD) Varna eventually completed the Forbidden Palace, which benefited much to the southern cities and the southern islands.

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/kryszcztov/2004924163819_kryszcztov-Beam10 380AD ForbiddenPalace.JPG
61.6KB

I discovered Theory of Gravity first on turn 154 (390AD), and of course didn't trade it to anyone. Four turns later, on turn 158 (430AD), I was the first to get Magnetism, and thus I entered the Industrial ages. I got Medicine as my free tech, which I was pleased with, because I wanted to learn Sanitation as soon as possible. But in fact having hospitals in my cities weren't a priority. Still, it would prove quite good in the future.

Socrates
24-09-2004, 19:12
LIKE IN A BOXING MATCH...

My dromons soon started to discover all the seas, hoping to make some money when maps would be traded. I sold Magnetism to both the Portuguese and the Japanese, but felt like it was like solding it to Beam. And indeed each tech sold to the AI would sooner or later fall in Beam's hands. On turn 160 (450AD) Beam sank one of 20 dromons with a man-o-war (quickly built !), which meant he triggered his Golden Age. [}:)] The next 20 turns looked like they would be very difficult, but I HAD to handle the situation. And so on turn 163 (480AD) Beam entered the Industrial Ages as well, at the time when I discovered Sanitation. I decided to sell Theory of Gravity to the Persians (got ivory), so that they could get a free tech, but they got Medicine. Then I gifted the Russians with Banking, Metallurgy, Theory of Gravity and Magnetism, and they got Nationalism. Unfortunately I would wait a long time before getting this one. I also gave Medicine to the Chinese for Military Tradition. Beam was lacking Military Tradition, and his army wasn't threatening. It was a good sign, but I had to keep that in check.

2 other dromons were also sunk in the next turn, so I was left with 17. At one point I found a 2-tile island in the South Pole, with 2 silks resources : they were the only ones available in the world !! [eek] Unfortunately, the Chinese would very soon settle the island, which they did on turn 165 (500AD).

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/kryszcztov/2004924172731_kryszcztov-Beam11 490AD SilksIsland.JPG
38.65*KB

Constantinople finally completed a wonder, and it was Newton's University, on turn 168 (530AD). It would be useful for faster research later on.

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/kryszcztov/2004924172853_kryszcztov-Beam12 530AD Newton.JPG
67.2*KB

I took a pic of one of my cities, Trebizond, during this same turn ; Beam was starting to bombard my coastal tiles, and I soon found out what it implied : a catastrophic mess !!! In C3C you now have craters, that you must clear before/after rebuilding the tile's improvements. I found out that craters take away one food and one shield from the raw production. These craters really suck IMO, they are both unrealistic and too harmful for too little investment (bad gameplay). Now take a look at the pic below : I'm not harvesting the desert with the crater, but the shield output is somewhat messed up, though it has no effect now (the wrongly added shield is lost to corruption).

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/kryszcztov/2004924173544_kryszcztov-Beam13 530AD CraterBug.JPG
116.48*KB

On turn 170 (550AD) I discovered Steam Power first, and was pleased to see this message :

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/kryszcztov/2004924173725_kryszcztov-Beam14 550AD IronWorksPopup.JPG
38.8*KB

That meant I had coal, and I found out I had 2 sources : one in the south, one in a northern island. The Iron Works could be built in either Varna (FP city) or Smyrna, but there was no doubt I would build it in Varna. On turn 171 I sold Steam Power to the Portuguese and the Russians, getting Democracy, and I signed an embargo with the Ruskies against Beam. I believed we were allowed to, Beam wasn't well into it, but he accepted it. The bad fact is that he himself immediately signed embargoes with both the Egyptians and the Chinese against me. [}:)]

At that time Beam started to bombard my main island. My dromons could barely get out of my harbour cities, because they had 4 movement points, whereas Beam's man-o-wars had 6. So the little dromons couldn't harm the man-o-wars, and had to protect the harbour cities from civilian bombardment. Beam now had brought man-o-wars en masse ; he effectively used his Golden Age to build them in numbers and send them at me. At first I thought it wouldn't be a significant problem, all the more with no land invasion. But it soon became irritating and I eventually realized that much of my production capacity was crippled, and that it would take me much time to recover. But I chose the long-term approach : I was ahead in science, and didn't want to produce ships (frigates) that would be soon obsolete and non-upgradable.

But it would soon be better : on turn 173 (580AD) I managed to trade for Navigation with the Japanese, at some expense (800 gold) ; I had to give Sanitation, and also to the Chinese for some money. I thought that the AIs would research this tech very quickly, so I was hoping to trade for it soon, but they delayed it for a long time. Next turn saw the completion of Magellan's Voyage in Adrianople (on a prebuild since a long time, and in threat of losing its shields because of the cascade). That meant I was now in my Golden Age !

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/kryszcztov/2004924175124_kryszcztov-Beam15 590AD Magellan.JPG
66.49*KB

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/kryszcztov/200492417521_kryszcztov-Beam16 590AD GoldenAge.JPG
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I could have tried to trigger my Golden Age well before that, but I wanted it as late as possible, to profit a lot from it. Unfortunately, my main island was now being struck by many man-o-wars, and the Golden Age was partly wasted. [blush2] I guess I'll do it better next time. The short holy period started with 4 cities in civil disorder, due to spices not being available anymore : Beam was all around me. I managed to get some gold from Navigation to the AIs, now that this tech was totally obsolete.

I discovered Industrialization first on turn 176 (610AD). And of course that one wouldn't be sold anytime. [nono] I would use my Golden Age production to build many factories in my main cities. But I also needed workers, because the crippled tiles would need a massive work, and also because some cities were starving anyway. :( Beam completed Bach's Cathedral, and I was released to see the wonder cascade stop. A little note on man-o-wars : they are too powerful ! They are uber-frigates that can last for quite some time in C3C (ironclads are optional), and they can enslave any ship to man-o-wars as well !!? That's unrealistic and too powerful again. Beam managed to capture some ships from the Portuguese, which he was at war with for some time, and got one from my dromons (one of my 3 lost dromons).

Would you believe it, the next tech I discovered was Ironclads, on turn 181 (660AD). I needed good ships badly, and I saw that they would be a nice investment (see upgrade path)... [evil] Sign of the times ? That's when I sank my 1st man-o-war, with dromons of course. The little boats could now step out of the harbour cities 2 tiles away, bombard, and come back in security. I had brought back all my dromons from exploration (BTW, I forgot to sell my world maps), and now it was harder for Beam. 2 turns later I sank 3 other man-o-wars, as they were now retreating to England. On turn 185 (700AD) I got Electricity, but almost everyone had it.

In the meantime Beam had landed some troops near Heraclea (8 units) ; I had been unable to sink the 2 galleons, since they came out of nowhere and landed their units all during the IT. I couldn't add reinforcements in the city, and it was protected by... a pikeman ! [lol] So I sent this email to Beam :

"OUR WORDS ARE BACKED WITH IRONCLADS !!!
Leave the city of Heraclea safe and go back to your ships, otherwise my unstoppable ironclads will very soon do the same damage on your island.
Not to mention that we're in the middle of our Golden Age and already have some FACTORIES running.
If you leave our land, we agree to not touch any English interest over the world for the next 15 turns (until turn 200), which would be kind of a phoney war (or ceasefire). If you want to negociate, you can contact us during your turn on MSN or mail.
It's in your long-term interest to not capture/raze any Byzantine city. If you do it, prepare to suffer the consequences from the mighty Byzantine industrial power !!!"

I suppose it didn't frighten him, because next turn Heraclea was no more. :(

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/kryszcztov/200492418826_kryszcztov-Beam17 710AD HeracleaRazed.JPG
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When I opened the save, Constantinople lost its Battlefield Medicine prebuild and remotely changed to a musketman, due to a PBEM malfunction. I think I have already commented on that. [blush] That's where I was in that rant post.

Socrates
24-09-2004, 19:51
PREPARING TO STRIKE BACK

You know, in boxing matches, it can be helpful to let your opponent hit you before hitting him back. Well, that's what I swore was gonna happen in this game.

I had had much luck in Heraclea, because my pikeman defended well against several English units, but with 5 cavalries and other folks, there was no doubt as for the outcome. In the last pic you can see wounded cavalries ; they were bomb-redlined by 2 ironclads coming from Varna (the strategically placed FP city), and slaughtered by the 2 musketmen you can also see. I had to use them since Smyrna was in heavy danger otherwise.

On turn 187 I eventually reconnected my spices, and it eased the weaker cities much. On turn 190 (750AD) I got Scientific Method first, and of course had no plan of selling it anytime soon. 2 turns later I sank a 5th man-o-war that was wandering in the west. On turn 194 (790AD) my Golden Age ended, with many tiles still crippled. Beam's Golden Age had ended 12-14 turns before that. Varna completed the Iron Works on turn 195 (800AD), which helped this city a lot, since it didn't have many land tiles to use (but 2 hill tiles with iron and coal !).

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/kryszcztov/200492418481_kryszcztov-Beam18 800AD IronWorks.JPG
61.98*KB

On turn 196 (810AD) I discovered Replaceable Parts (speeding up the workers' pace, which I desperately needed !), already known by many civs. And that's where I stopped science. I now wanted to do something I should have maybe done a while ago : earn much money to rush many city improvements. My island cities needed to grow, and the southern ones were badly crippled by Beam. I also refounded Heraclea, renaming it "Eternal Heraclea", as a [tongue] for Beam. The other developped cities were starting to crank ironclads like mad. On turn 199 (840AD) I completed the Theory of Evolution in Constantinople, and picked Atomic Theory and Electronics for free.

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/kryszcztov/200492418497_kryszcztov-Beam19 840AD Evolution.JPG
61.82*KB

The Chinese made a funny move on turn 202 : they asked for Ironclads ! As I really didn't want it to fall in Beam's hands, I refused, and Mao apologized, asking me if it was a nice joke !! [smokin] I then sold Atomic Theory to some AIs, getting Nationalism, Corporation, Espionage, Free Artistry and Communism, as well as tons of gold per turn. Beam and the AIs had moved to Corporation, which I hadn't been in a hurry to know : this tech leads to Steel (nothing from it) and Refining (oil appears). Since it would take a long time for Beam or the AIs to discover them, I preferred to not bother, and produce my ironclads. My main cities had now built coal plants, and were able to produce them every 2 or 3 turns, even with crippled tiles.

I now had more than 20 ironclads. I made 4 groups of 5 ironclads, which I sent to my NW, NE, SW and SE. I was continueing the ironclad production, all the more as no one had it yet ! It was now time to strike hard...

Socrates
24-09-2004, 20:57
OPERATION RETALIATION

BREAKING NEWS

War ! It is war !!! [fdevil] On turn 209 (840AD) the NE stack of ironclads arrived near Newcastle, an island lying in Beam's north-west. I was able to damage 2 man-o-wars and destroy the coastal fortress. I couldn't decently attack the evil ships directly, since my ironclads had to move 4 tiles before that. Just before the 1st strike :

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/kryszcztov/200492419554_kryszcztov-BeamOR01 940AD.JPG
80.64*KB

We can see that Beam upgraded his "island" warriors to guerillos. The 3 other stacks are all 1 turn from their first strike as well. Our marine hopes to strike everywhere, so that the English can't defend well.

More news to come in the next hours.

Socrates
24-09-2004, 22:57
OPERATION RETALIATION, TURN 2

BREAKING NEWS

War is now well under way. Fire has struck in Beam's 4 corners. Our marine is being optimistic. :)

During the IT, the English were able to hit all 5 ironclads near Newcastle down to 2 hp.

The SE stack, commonly called the Dover stack, destroyed Dover's coastal fortress. They also found no man-o-war there, just an infantry and a galleon. Meanwhile the NE stack, commonly called the Newcastle stack, retreated to some hidden place, not far from the English border ; our Marine hopes that the evil English won't find them there, as escaping in straight line to Byzantium might have cost many lives (man-o-wars have 1 more movement point).

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/kryszcztov/2004924214749_kryszcztov-BeamOR02 950AD.JPG
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At the same time, a 3rd group, known as the Liverpool stack, coming from the NW, destroyed Liverpool's coastal fortress as well. Only 1 man-o-war was found there, which was redlined. But at least 1 other man-o-war is currently in Oxford.

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/kryszcztov/2004924215157_kryszcztov-BeamOR03 950AD.JPG
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The 4th and last group, in the SW, known as the Nara group, reached the English coast in the south of Hastings. Our glorious marine was able to destroy all the infrastructure on a tobacco tile, and damage an infantry unit defending in a fort on a hill.

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/kryszcztov/2004924215647_kryszcztov-BeamOR04 950AD.JPG
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Stay tuned ! [cool]

Socrates
25-09-2004, 00:36
OPERATION RETALIATION, TURN 3

BREAKING NEWS

The Byzantine forces are retreating !! [eek]

During the IT, the evil English used many artillery units and man-o-wars to bombard the Dover stack, which was forced to withdraw, along with the Newcastle stack. One ironclad was even sunk, though no enslavement occurred.

Our suspicions about man-o-wars in Oxford were correct or surely correct : heavy bombardment of Liverpool revealed many stinking ships there ; those were transferred during the IT, but weren't able to fire without ending in the open sea. As a result, both Liverpool and Nara stacks were a little hit, but not as much as in the other side. This turn our marine was able to destroy all the infrastructure on a grassland tile near Hastings, and destroy the coastal fortress in that same city. Both stacks are now also withdrawing.

The 1st part of Operation Retaliation was mediocre, so to say. It proved that England cared a lot for its defense, surely knowing that it would be hit someday. And as was shown, the English defense is well in place, and up-to-date as for the number of ships. But it was also proven that Byzantium can reach some parts of England. Our marine is now working on producing even more ironclads, convinced that it will lead to better results in the near future. We are also considering to regroup ironclads in stacks of 10 units, or maybe even 20. [fdevil]

akots
25-09-2004, 09:45
Interesting game you have here. You're serious about building hospitals?

Socrates
25-09-2004, 12:19
Yup, I built hospitals in my main cities and am preparing to build them in my island cities. Maybe not the smartest move, but I hope it pays off with tiny variations leading to significant results (since everything in Civ is rounded up/down).

BTW, another turn was played, Beam sank 4 other ironclads to his west. :( And one was even enslaved. Man-o-wars are too powerful units, when waiting in their cities... Operation Retaliation was a failure, but it is not over yet. Next strike will be hopefully more deadly. [}:)]

anarres
25-09-2004, 21:07
Just make the force big enough so you outnumber him! Not going in with enough will surely damage you more than him. :)

Kemal
25-09-2004, 22:33
Not sure how fast you are researching.. but with you grabbing the ToE and getting newton's, wouldn't it be better to focus on research first (since you are researching steel already) and perhaps try to get the upper hand at sea using destroyers?

Those MoWs really are too good I think for ironclads to do any serious damage, unless you come with, as anarres says, huge amounts.. but they aren't that inexpensive anymore I believe.

Also, would love to see a F11 shot, any estimates on Beam's mfg goods?

Socrates
26-09-2004, 19:07
Better answer short posts, so as I can reach page 2, and so be able to load the new page without much difficulty...

I agree that I came in numbers, but really not enough. I wanted to strike everywhere, but Beam focused almost only on defense, and with island bases for his man-o-wars, having 1 more movement points than my ironclads, it proved to be difficult for this time. Stacks of 5 ironclads clearly were NOT enough and were even dangerous for me. Beam must have built several new man-o-wars in the meantime (after he withdrew fom my continent). I think he can build them until Combustion, otherwise he wouldn't have anything to build until then.

A little analysis on my state :
I have more cities than Beam (he has 2 more cities than me on the continent, but they are more packed, but I have many more islands). My main cities are mainly above size 12, almost all have factories and coal plants (and I have the Iron Works). My island cities have built a lot of improvement lately, thanks to no research. With Newton and Evolution, I can research way faster than Beam, that's a fact (currently Steel in 6 turns and Refining in 7 turns). I am also 1st in production, though I don't by how much (may check next time), and I will soon complete Hoover.
My plan is to get gold for a few turns and wait for some AIs to learn one of the 2 mentionned techs, and maybe research with discount or trade... In the meantime I'm producing tons of ironclads (all my main cities are doing that, one every 2 or 3 turns). I want to have the maximum ships before knowing Combustion, so as to do a mass upgrade to detroyers. At that time Beam will have no industrial ships, whereas I will suddenly have dozens of 10-movement deadly ships. [evil] I bet he won't be able to stop me by then. Before that I plan to do 1 or 2 other attacks with ironclads, but this time I will group them by stacks of 20 or something like that, and will focus on specific targets. And of course I'll do everything to be away of safe counter-attacks during the ITs. The annoying thing is that Beam keeps lots of man-o-wars in harbors, and bombard/attack my ships and then go back to safety. I must stay at 4 tiles of any harbors, which mean that I can't attack any city.

One thing I wonder : what does it do if I attack man-o-wars in cities with my ironclads ? Is it a standard attack like on the open sea, or do I or he get a bonus ? In this case it might be good to attack his cities with significant stacks...

Long-term thinking : I plan to use marines, do they get a bonus too ?

digger760
28-09-2004, 18:45
there is a penalty for ships in defending in habours..but not sure if it applies to just air attacks or not.
iirc Marines have double attack strength for naval invasions

Socrates
28-09-2004, 20:12
I can't find anything about ships being weak in harbors and marines being twice stronger either in the Civilopedia, either in the editor. Where can I find such information ? [rolleyes]

I think I'll start to write a personal thread about what I dislike in Civ3. In French we say : "Qui aime bien châtie bien." ;)

Socrates
01-10-2004, 19:18
WE NEED FASTER SHIPS, SIR !

So in the end Operation Retaliation was almost a complete failure. Beam did exactly what he could do best : harass my ironclads from his safe harbors. I underestimated the number of units I should have put in my stacks, and I overestimated the power of the ironclad (good for game balance). After some more turns, 11 ironclads and 1 dromon were destroyed, which was a big drawback. Fortunately I could make it with much more production. Beam brought some man-o-wars not far away from my eastern islands, and then withdrew when I finally took the decision to put back all my ships in safety.

During these turns I got 2 wonders :
- Hoover Dam in my capital city on turn 219 (1040AD) ;
- Smith's Trading company in my FP city on turn 228 (1130AD).
Smith wasn't part of the plan, but thanks to pollution, I eventually got it built there over an ironclad.

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/kryszcztov/200410118134_kryszcztov-Beam20 1040AD Hoover.JPG
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http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/kryszcztov/2004101181346_kryszcztov-Beam21 1130AD Smith.JPG
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On the science front, I started researching again on turn 214, and got Steel and Refining in 4 turns each. Then I discovered Combustion on turn 228 (1130AD), ie. 6 more turns. All these 3 techs were already known by the AIs and Beam when I got them. I was able to trade for oil with Russians when I got Refining, and had almost 5,000 gold in my treasury when I reached Combustion. I immediately upgraded 44 ironclads to destroyers (22 on each side) ; each upgrade cost me 90 gold. :D

That's where we are now. Next turn will hopefully see my destroyers head for Beam's lands, with 10 movement points.

Socrates
01-10-2004, 19:51
OPERATION RETALIATION, TAKE 2

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/kryszcztov/2004101184858_kryszcztov-BeamOR11 1140AD.JPG
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That's 22 veteran destroyers. [coool] Another 22 is on their way in the other ocean, but has 1 more turn to go (larger ocean). A stack of 3 man-o-wars (2 standard and 1 elite) was spotted inbetween Dover and the ships (3 tiles away from either).

Socrates
02-10-2004, 15:45
SIR, YOU FORGOT TO SCOUT OUR BORDERS !! - YUP ! BEEN LAZY...

Operation Retaliation really began on turn 230 (1150AD), when those 22 veteran destroyers reached the west of England.

turn 230 (1150AD) :
The stack of 3 man-o-wars was sunk, and the rest of the destroyers stack headed for Dover. There, I destroyed the saltpeter tile ; it appeared on the following turn that Beam lacked saltpeter then, which meant he was supplying someone with this resource, since one of his island city was settled on his other saltpeter. The destroyers were also able to kill 3 citizens, the coastal fortress, the marketplace and the harbor.

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/kryszcztov/2004102142226_kryszcztov-BeamOR12 1150AD.JPG
81*KB

Meanwhile the other stack approached the eastern coast.

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/kryszcztov/2004102142338_kryszcztov-BeamOR13 1150AD.JPG
83.41*KB

turn 231 (1160AD) :
That was the turn on which I saw that bombardment would be very slow : I would have to redline English ships so that they couldn't attack me afterwards, which required some bombardment resource. At least the destroyers had to be dealt with. That's because I realized that we can't attack ships in ports at all !! [eek] So, to sum things up : my dromons can sink at sea with Greek fire, but my destroyers can't attack the ships in ports. I'm also certain that dromons can't use their lethal bombardment against ships in ports...
I redlined a destroyer in Dover and killed 1 citizen, thus knowing there was no more units there.
Then my destroyers reached Newcastle. 3 man-o-wars were redlined, and then I killed 2 citizens, and destroyed the coastal fortress and the barracks.
On the other side, I heavily bombarded Oxford, since there were many man-o-wars there, eight in total. I redlined them all first, despite a veteran infantry defending there and showing up first, and then yellowlined the infantry.

turn 232 (1170AD) :
On the western coast I took care of Newcastle first. I redlined the same 3 man-o-wars, and then killed 2 citizens, and destroyed the temple and the harbor. After that, I destroyed the oasis tile next to the city. The rest of the stack scouted Dover, and saw 2 healthy veteran destroyers there ; they were redlined. I want to note that the harbor in Dover was (surely) rushed, and so the ships there fully recovered in one turn, meaning that recovering occurs after improvements' completion (logical).
On the eastern coast I started to bombard some coastal tiles. I was able to fully destroy 3 tiles, 2 of which had forts. But none had units. [hmm] The good part is that it disconnected the land links between the main part of the continent and the southern part. It is to be noted that tiles with forts and railroads take 3 hits to be destroyed, unlike tiles without forts (2 hits).

The bad part is that Beam had sent 4 transports and 2 man-o-wars towards my continent. And because I was too lazy to scout my borders each turn, and because new destroyers were sent to the front instead of defending my waters, I found out that the stack was one turn from landing near my capital. :( Blame my way of playing. If played wisely and safely, I would have sunk the 6 ships with the units aboard. But now I could only sink 1 man-o-war (the other one would have been sunk if I hadn't clicked on my numerical pad too quickly).

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/kryszcztov/2004102144320_kryszcztov-BeamOR14 1170AD.JPG
131.21*KB

So I put my few defense units on sensible landing tiles, and changed my cities' production to infantries. With up to 24 units, I now have to be careful... and not let such a thing happen again.

Beam
02-10-2004, 20:48
Game over, congrats krys! [goodjob]

The only possible way left to prevent you getting the UN would have been taking a couple of core cities from the Gold Hill near Const. Which was blocked following "just-in-time" detection of the invading stack.

Grille
02-10-2004, 20:49
krys, destroyer's bombardment is not lethal.
Bombers, however, *can* sink ships (and destroy planes!) in ports.
These go for ships/planes first. That'S the penalty ships get. Then, after the last naval/air unit is destroyed, the bombers hit the land units (e.g. your bomber would go for a damaged 1HP destroyer in port while ignoring a 5hp elite infantry).

Anyways, though Beam just slipped through, I guess it wouldn't happen again with so many destroyers around.

Grille
02-10-2004, 20:52
quote:Originally posted by Grille

Anyways, though Beam just slipped through, I guess it wouldn't happen again with so many destroyers around.


Guess this estimation was right...[lol]

Congrats, krys![party]


damnit why am I always too late![mad]
[lol]

Socrates
02-10-2004, 20:58
Waoh !!! Errr, I'm speechless, apart from :

[band] [band] [band] [party] [party] [party] [bday] (hey WTF, it's not my birthday ?)

I really would have liked to know what would happen with your (I think) ultimate invasion. Never thought of the UN though. I was 4 turns away from marines, and I had planned marines attacking from dromons. [evil] I detected your invasion stack too late, and with careful coast-guarding, I would have sunk it right away. I thought that the seas were safe now, with all those destroyers running everywhere.

Yipee, my 1st real PBEM win !!! [dance]

Beam
02-10-2004, 21:37
Met Destroyers 2 times during the crossing iirc. Without being detected. Keep an alert watch next time.

Beam
02-10-2004, 22:12
About the war happiness as a result of sinking that curragh:
- The Chinese were researching very well at that point in the game and I just wanted to make sure I could trade with them before their techs would end up in TGL. War happiness was part of the consideration. I knew you were building TGL and had a good chance of making it btw.

About your techrate at the end of the MedAge:
- That's even faster than I imagined at that point in the game. Still amazes me I could make it to Combustion first and trade it for the other techs. I guess stockpiled TGL cash and cheap science imps must have greatly contributed to this techrate.

About military concepts:
- You make like'm or hate'm but if there is one area where you can improve it is in the military. Not just what every single units strenghts and weaknesses are but also how they can be combined and how to apply them.

About the builder game:
- You certainly beat me there, I guess that should be my focus for improvement. Since lost games are the most fertile soil for educational material would you mind if I have a look from your site and see how you build up? If you want you can view my site as well of course, shall we PM each other the PW's?

Pastorius
02-10-2004, 22:21
Wow. You beat Beam. Cool. Good work Krys. For quite a while I was certain Beam had you.
In fact, I even thought he could pull off the final invasion to prevent the UN.

Well done ol' chap

Socrates
02-10-2004, 22:27
TO VICTORY

Have to tell what happened during those very last turns.

My destroyers continued to bombard everything in England, I wrote that in the emails I sent to Beam, but it isn't that interesting to know in details. I managed to destroy many tiles in the north-west and the south coast.

Beam indeed landed 24 units between Constantinople and Nicaea, on a wines tile. The stack was made of 5 cavalries, 10 infantries and 9 artilleries. With all the units that I could use, I bombarded the ships and some infantries but it was clearly not enough. I discovered Mass Production first on this turn 233 (1180AD), and so sold it around for tons of cash and gpt payment. I litterally took all the AIs' money, so as to immediately upgrade my few pikemen (180 gold each) and musketmen (90 gold each) to infantries. That's because I had almost no money at all. I put the infantries in both cities and waited for the following turn.

Beam abandonned on his turn 233. But he could have done much damage immediately. Pillaging the 2 wines next to him would have resulted in me and one of my 2 customers lacking wines, which would have meant the lack of another lux (furs or ivory). Talk about riots on my turn !! [help] Add to that 9 arties ready to fire at everything... I would have got 4 arties on turn 234, so as to redline as many units as I could each turn, and then attack them with my few infantries. That would have required some time, and the few cavalries weren't there for the fun too... I saw that Beam had 5 cities above size 12, which meant he possibly had built Battlefield Medicine, which would have been a real pain to counter.

I will now never know how this would have turned out. And if attacking with marines from dromons would have looked cool enough... and effective ! [cool]

Download Attachment: icon_paperclip.gif kryszcztov-Beam.txt (http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/kryszcztov/2004102212652_kryszcztov-Beam.txt)
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Socrates
03-10-2004, 00:19
quote:Originally posted by Beam

About military concepts:
- You make like'm or hate'm but if there is one area where you can improve it is in the military. Not just what every single units strenghts and weaknesses are but also how they can be combined and how to apply them.
That's very true about my military skills : I'm not good enough, and I can get overconfident very quickly. And I often end up using a huge stack of the same units, whatever the game (howitzers in Civ2, hoplites in Age of Empires, camels as the Egyptians in Age of Mythology (lol), etc...). It's not that I hate it, but using or seeing you use some units or military techniques in this game made me realize that Civ3 has more flaws than I thought. It's in our honour to make the best use of what we have (though akots is mean trying to teach you tricks I won't use, like galley hopping and chaining and motherfucker's stuff !). I had no bad feeling trying to bombard you back, but I felt some stuff to be badly implemented. I know I have to improve in military skills, and I consider this game as mediocre for me in this field.

quote:About the builder game:
- You certainly beat me there, I guess that should be my focus for improvement. Since lost games are the most fertile soil for educational material would you mind if I have a look from your site and see how you build up? If you want you can view my site as well of course, shall we PM each other the PW's?
Still don't know how I got ahead of you... Oh, I think you want to have a look at my saves, right ? Sure, I'll PM you my password for this game. Don't hesitate to ask questions anytime.

akots
03-10-2004, 04:45
Actually, an expected outcome. You were ahead most of the game. [goodjob]