View Full Version : Under the vulcano: Krys vs, Beam - * * SPOILER * *
Everybody still thinking that cultural expansion will never pop barbs from a hut should take a look at this pic. Lost the worker and had to change London Settler > Warrior. [cry] [aargh] [mad3]
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Beam/20047416845_cultexppopsbarbs.jpg
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And isn't that a ruin in the SW? [confused]
Looks like it, I guess somebody is living on your doorstep :)
Fucked start, but the land seems very nice!
Did you have a curragh out already? Or other military?
Just checking. Charis told me that border expansion when you have no military won't pop barbs. Curragh is military of course.
By the way: a ruin after 10 turns sounds like a little fun of the mapmaker. Not an actual ruin :)
More fun by the mapmaker:
An erupting vulcano in turn 15. Furs just next to the vulcano. He must have been smoking pot while making this map.
Me smoking pot? lol! I hope you aren't mad...
You are lucky the vulcano erupts now while you do not have a city next to it!
Bad luck with that hut though..
btw.. is it appropriate for the mapmaker to post in a spoiler?
Banzai!
Banzai, I do it all the time :) As long as you don't spoil ;)
No prob Banzai, it was a gamble and not a pretty good one.
Just found two barbcamps next to another vulcano on my soil, guess you've put 'm in for training exercises? ;)
[rolleyes]
Krys mentioned in the mapmaking forum he wanted some barb camps on the island.. It wouldn't be fair if he was the only one to have some fun, right?
:)
Banzai!
No prob Banzai, that other vulcano just erupted as well and cleared up most of the barbs :)
[eek]
Sometimes it is better to be lucky than good! [lol]
Banzai!
quote:Originally posted by Banzai
[eek]
Sometimes it is better to be lucky than good! [lol]
Banzai!
Absolutely right Banzai, even more after the English app. are in the Far East after meeting both the Japanese and Chinese. Curragh rowers are working their asses off to meet the Thai masseuses you've been spreading rumours about. ;)
Couple of turns ago (while meeting Japan) English researchers traded like hell and gathered all 7 baseline techs + Iron Working (around T34). Masonry plus change for Alphabet was the key here. Generous Samurai Banzai gifted England 2 Irons and 1 Horse. And Vulcanos and barbcamps ;)
Pastorius
08-07-2004, 16:11
This looks like a fun game to follow. Did Banzai include himself as a leader?
Give screenies please [groucho]
Nice thread title Beam! Can you show the fans some pics?
Found any Thai masseuses yet? [coool]
quote:Originally posted by Paalikles
Did Banzai include himself as a leader?
[eek]
Damn! Thats a good idea! [mischief]
[hammer]
Banzai!
Turn 56:
First at Philo [dance] [party]. Thanks to extensive MM'ing of the gold S of London. Mapmaking is an easy choice for da free tech.
Will post some pix tonight.
Those pics took a couple of nights ;)
Amazingly krys found me with a Curragh who made it across a lot of ocean as I found out a couple of turns ago while an English galley made it across to his part of the world. As you can see in the minimap there are 2 pelagos:
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Beam/200472919544_minimapt81.jpg
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I soon made contact with Cathy and Cleo over there while avoiding detection by the Byz. krys is very confident about his Dromon and I don't want to provoke him ;).
I was a little puzzled already about his tactics on techs but a 110 gold for Alpha with Egypt really makes me wondering what he has in mind. Look at this pic:
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Beam/200472919846_techturn81.jpg
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There are 3 baseline techs in there! And IW / Myst aren't the most brilliant 2nd line techs either. His Writing tech line is on par and he could get a monopoly on Rep. but that's both a long run and the best he can get in return for his monopoly is IW or Myst. Not even Maths or Poly.
England only needs Curr. and Constr. to move to the MA btw.
For the record: Lizzy enjoys the presence of 2 vulconos on her island and both have erupted twice [eek]
Don't know the level of the game, but probably not below emperor so maths may very well be discovered by the time he has rep. Also he'll sweep up all available techs and cash on a rep monopoly. On top of that being able to revolt is good as well. But you can at least clean out all ai cash and if you trade around all techs he cant trade anything else except republic.
Yep. Gambit is good at low difficulty and in single-player game IMO. At higher difficulty, if you just have the contacts and can trade everything around netting you some cash in the process, there would be nothing to trade in exchange for Republic for him. :)
Just make sure that all AIs are even in tech.
Krys got level with me with Republic. But he caught me by surprise with a GA and max research.
It is 850 BC and the father of the daughter of the uncle of the nephew of the sun of the stephmother of the etc. of Lizzy is praying like hell in Nukingham Palace that the settlers send to the wild, desolate and violent Mersey region will survive the barbaric nomads living out there. This is what they reported after contacting the Vandals:
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Beam/2004730181526_vandalconstruction.jpg
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The father of the daughter of the uncle of the nephew of the sun of the stephmother of the etc. of Lizzy hereafter is extremely confident in following the advice of sages PP, akots and Aggie and trades / gives away ALL techs except for Construction. MA is just 10 turns away [dance]
Pastorius
30-07-2004, 19:31
When you have those as advisors, krys is doomed :D
and writing down your family tree would make a brick of a book I see...
Always fun to watch you play, so keep it up
Paali, you're back :). Been away for holidays or what?
Since I'm puzzled about the way krys plays I decided to take a look in his cap. He ain't researching Rep. at all:
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Beam/2004730194636_cap825bc.jpg
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Costed 132 gold iirc for info ya lurkers get for free! ;)
Other things still puzzling me is how that Curragh managed to come across and what his techpath after Writing was.
Oh, pic of the Byz. Curragh:
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Beam/2004730195448_curragh825bc.jpg
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Well.. that explains a lot!
Can you or an AI beat him to The Great Library?
btw.. still not settled next to that volcano?! coward! ;)
Banzai!
Pastorius
30-07-2004, 20:35
Is it just my memory failing me, or have I played C3C with curraghs moving 3 tiles...if so, he could have moved all the way through the tiles shown on the screenshot.
But I am just loco...
@Beam: Yep, sort of back..well have been busy working all summer, and still am working till middle of August. Then I m heading straight back to Oslo, and well...back to normal. I have a really sucky comp here, so I dont get much fun (civ) from it - though I try to squeeze out a save to our friendly neighbourhood killer these days. Damn timeconsuming event to wait for the loading...and once I start c3c...almost all of the memory is used...only have 256mb of ram on my father's 550Mhz Hewlet Packard...zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzlooooow....
Whatcha been up to then?
So, its all or nothing. If Istanbul builds TGL, it might be OK. Just catching up even if no x-fers, still some cash accumulated. If not, it might be over. Can you trade Literature to some stupid AI which does not know where to put the Wonder cascade shields? Or is it all finished?
@Paali: you definetly need to talk with your dad about the crap on his desktop ;)
@akots: dunno about the AI building GL and if they will make it (some do) before krys does but there is a hell of a lot of ocean between the pelagos and Magn. or Nav. are required to send troops across safely. About time to call Man-O-Wars to the front [evil]
quote:Originally posted by Beam
... there is a hell of a lot of ocean between the pelagos and Magn. or Nav. are required to send troops across safely. ...
There are many means to transport troops safely across the ocean tiles. First, there is ship chaining. Second, there is galley hopping. Third, there is a Great Lighthouse somewhere and you guys are seafaring. I would not count on Kryst-a-Theo unable to reach you. On the contrary, it might be possible for English galleys to sail somehow to Constantinople. But you have not explored that route yet. Well, we'll know soon. It is getting interesting. :)
@paal: Seafaring civs get +1move on all ships, so that's your 3move curraghs
@beam: any AI civ building the tGlib also? if not trading lit around might do the trick with some AI picking it up in a wonder cascade. If not there's the tiny chance of you (or an AI) getting a SGL and rush building it. (yesterday that's how an AI grabbed TOE away from me in a SP game, 2 turns before I was to finish SCiMed and ToE [cry])
Maybe a searoute exists between the Persians and the Russians or using the eastern ocean navigating thru the minimap 'end'. Might be possible as there seems to be an island west of egypt.
A 2nd galley made it across in the S but it also had to made a stop on an ocean tile. So 2 gallies are exploring krys' pelago and looking for the Portugese.
@Propain: all AI I know have Lit. And all are building TGL atm.
I am considering to send a small force. "Small" would still require 6 Swordies to land, which means a couple more need to sail and compensate for losses due to sinking. It is a possibility cause I just build my last 2 settlers for the time being.
If you send 3 galleys with swords and 3 empty galleys, the empty ones will sink first on an ocean tile and all your swords will survive. Moreover, it is possible to send the empty galleys (5 for example) to that ocean tile and leave there. Some of them will sink. Then load your swords from other galleys to the remaining using the swords movement (not a ship chaining then!). Hence, all your troop will arrive safely. It is essentially very similar to galley hopping. May be it is somewhat exploitive but still you lose some ships and it is all more or less fair to a certain extent.
Did you negotiate the rules with Krys before starting the game? Is this allowed?
Krys just build the Great Lib. Although I've been considering to counter it I decided not to since there isn't a spot where galley can cross safely and a ship chain would take to much time.
Big gamble by krys, if he hadn't made it he better quit.
Techs: researching Mono at full, Eng and Feud are around. Can't get Feud for Mon+Rep and the wallet plus futures.
Turn 130:
Basically a tech-race update.
- Buy Theo from Egypt with 1 turn to go for about 310 gold.
- Sell it to China for Gunpowder and 73 gold.
- Sell Theo plus change to Persia for Chiv.
- Sell Chiv to Egypt for all their cash plus 25 gpt.
- Do good gpt deals with Portugal and Japan and a 126 cash deal with Russia.
- Persia is the only AI with cash, the change for Chivalry.
- England acquires +200 cash and 51 gpt in this trading round.
- Education is rolling atm and soon the Great Lib will be obsolete. Krys might be either PP or Chem ahead of me by then.
2 thinks working in my advantage:
- Krys hasn't met Mao yet. So he can't get Chinese techs.
- The AI on W and E pelago haven't made contact yet.
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Beam/2004912113716_minimapt130.jpg
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Turn 131:
Krys says in his mail he was 1 turn from Theo. That's a lot of wasted beakers for him and for sure means he is going for PP.
About turn 180:
MoWs rock. Almost all Byzantine coast has been bombarderd and for some reason krys only sends Dromons to bombard the stack. Smyrna is ripped of all improvements iirc including the harbor. Which basically means no access to Coal and Iron atm. [evil]
Techs vs krys: ahead with Nat. and Elec. GA just finished, Ind. in 8.
Turn 185:
What to do when you get a message like this after landing a small stack?
quote:OUR WORDS ARE BACKED WITH IRONCLADS !!!
Leave the city of Heraclea safe and go back to your ships, otherwise my unstoppable ironclads will very soon do the same damage on your island.
Not to mention that we're in the middle of our Golden Age and already have some FACTORIES running.
If you leave our land, we agree to not touch any English interest over the world for the next 15 turns (until turn 200), which would be kind of a phoney war (or ceasefire). If you want to negociate, you can contact us during your turn on MSN or mail.
It's in your long-term interest to not capture/raze any Byzantine city. If you do it, prepare to suffer the consequences from the mighty Byzantine industrial power !!!
Raze that city!
Turn 209:
Funny guy krys. First he sends me an open invitation to raze one of his cities or I won't get a 15 turn ceasefire starting turn 185. About turn 200 the first stack of Clads is detected, a little later the other stack. He sinks 2 scouting MoWS.
Then nothing happens for a while. This turn one of the detected stacks bombs an English city. That's a 24 turn ceasefire apart from the 2 MoWs. Destroys the Coastal Def. (1st time ever I used them btw) and hits 2 MoW. In the counterattack all of his clads are bombed to 2 HP. Still a hard nut to crack but he can't heal so I just should bomb and be patient.
Now some questions about the Coastal Fortress. I hope someone knows cause I hardly ever read about them:
- Do they also defend the tiles in the city radius.
- Is there a reason his first hit on the city destroyed the CF? It was the last thing build in that city btw.
Other precautions include fortresses / barricades on all important tiles and units on top of them to slow the bombing. Also a couple of workers in reserve to rework tiles.
Kingreno
24-09-2004, 20:12
Coastal fortress is high on the "hitlist" when it comes to bombing. Also, it gives all buildings and units (but not naval) a bombard defense of 8 (6?). If you build it AND put some defensive units in it like muskets or riffles you will hardly be hit at all. The problem is that once the Units' hitpoints are consumed the fortress will be destroyed. This in turn is totaly ignored by naval units who are always bomabed first. Rumors say it has been changed in 1.22 but as far as I know it hasn't.
Hm, if it is so high on the hitlist it hardly has a purpose is it?
Anyway this is what krys reported:
1. miss
2. destroy coastal fortress
3. miss
4. take 1hp from elite MoW
5. take 2hp from vet MoW
There is no defensive unit there (matter of priorities, this is a remote island that doesn't contribute a lot).
211: Excerpt from e-mail.
W of Dover
- 5 MoWs bombard, 3 hits, 2 misses
- Full vet MoW attacks, Clad hits, 2/4 Clad sinks, attacking MoW is redlined but enslaves [evil]
- Enslaved MoW redlines 2/4 Clad by bombing.
- Full vet MoW attacks 2/4 Clad (the last one). Bombing Clad misses, 2/4 Clad sinks, MoW is not even scratched.
- Full vet MoW attacks redlined Clad. Bombing Clad hits. Redlined Clad sinks. MoW goes 2/4.
- Full vet MoW attacks redlined Clad. Bombing Clad hits. Redlined Clad sinks. MoW goes 1/4, promotes to 2/5 elite.
- 4/5 elite MoW attacks relined Clad. Bombing Clad misses. Elite MoW sinks.
I told you to take that scrapheap home! You can't run, you can't hide. Do those Clads to the E also wanna taste arties and MoWs?
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Beam/20049250547_thechaseisbetterthanthecatch.jpg
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Course some MoWs will be bombed next turn but it will delay their retreat with another turn. :)
218:
Bought Refining for cash with 2 turns to go and sold it thru for gpt which was more than a compensation for the purchase price. :) Krys just very recently got Steel and does not have Refining yet and unless he is going to buy or throw Electronics on the market it could take him a while. In either case it is good for England. Combustion is next and either left or right I'm confident to get Electronics somehow before the end of the era. Some smart Destroyer prebuilds are required cause I can't upgrade like krys can.
AI is pretty lame in this game. krys has been at war with Russia, me with Portugal and China with Persia.
Fetishism:
Fetishism comes in many forms, so many that you think it is impossible to come up with new ones. Wikipedia for example lists:
foot fetishism
stocking fetishism
pantyhose fetishism
leather fetishism
rubber fetishism
shoe fetishism
spandex fetishism
medical fetishism
panty fetishism
balloon fetishism
blindness fetishism
calligraphy fetishism
depilation fetishism
eyeglasses fetishism
eyepatch fetishism
hair fetishism
milk fetishism
robot fetishism
smoking fetishism
wet and messy fetishism
wheelchair fetishism
Another one can be added to the list:
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Beam/2004930212523_MA1090.jpg
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Coastal bombardment fetishism.
Considering to take look over there in a couple of turns, looks like an interesting place ;)
Is this spy report on Krys' troops? [lol]
Pastorius
30-09-2004, 23:06
quote:Originally posted by Beam
Turn 209:
Funny guy krys. First he sends me an open invitation to raze one of his cities or I won't get a 15 turn ceasefire starting turn 185. About turn 200 the first stack of Clads is detected, a little later the other stack. He sinks 2 scouting MoWS.
Then nothing happens for a while. This turn one of the detected stacks bombs an English city. That's a 24 turn ceasefire apart from the 2 MoWs. Destroys the Coastal Def. (1st time ever I used them btw) and hits 2 MoW. In the counterattack all of his clads are bombed to 2 HP. Still a hard nut to crack but he can't heal so I just should bomb and be patient.
Now some questions about the Coastal Fortress. I hope someone knows cause I hardly ever read about them:
- Do they also defend the tiles in the city radius.
- Is there a reason his first hit on the city destroyed the CF? It was the last thing build in that city btw.
Other precautions include fortresses / barricades on all important tiles and units on top of them to slow the bombing. Also a couple of workers in reserve to rework tiles.
CF: have yet to see them defend against anything. I ve built one, then a ship has passed by, bombarded the city with CF, and CF was destroyed [eek]. It happened the very turn after CF was complete in that city too. So that was a damned waste of shields.
So I experienced same as you. Weird shit. I of course immediately rushed a ship of my own, and went after the AI ship for vengeance [evil] :D Costly, but made me feel powerful [groucho]
So, got Combustion prev. turn, was pondering to sell it around. Which I eventually did cause some of the AI weren't willing to pay a lot for a monopoly tech and according to my calculations krys would get it anyway next turn knowing the price drops for him.
So he has upgraded and owns 44 destroyers now which will be heading for England next turn for sure. Although this won't bring him victory there is something else nearby that could, i.e. UN vote. krys is #1 in civscore, i'm #4, which means I won't be a candidate if the vote is initiated by someone else. Or does this work differently in PBEM?
He is scientific as are 2 of the AI so chances are pretty dim I will get Fission in time to complete even the best prebuild.
Pastorius
02-10-2004, 17:30
Both humans will be in the UN poll afaik.
Turn 232:
Considering that chances on the UN are very dim there were 2 options for my land-based units:
- stay home and act as an extra buffer vs. coastal bombardment
- set sail and invade
Since the first option does not fundamentally change the UN changes England went for option 2. If we go down we go down fighting. [mgun]
Upgraded 4 Galleons to Transports, loaded 9 arties, 5 cavs and 10 Infs and set sail to krys next turn. Not an easy journey as they could run into Clads and / or Destroyers. Well the stack actually sailed along 2 Byz. destroyes but found safe refugee in Chinese waters. The surprise would have been complete if the English could land undetected but unfortanetely krys found it the turn before that. Glad I'd send 2 MoWs ahead of the stack to join the turn before landing.
So for the 2nd time this game England has landed on Byz. soil, we'll see what happens this time. krys blocked the coast near Const., the hill being the planned Utah Beach.
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Beam/2004102174446_invasion.jpg
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With rails everywhere it will probably be quite a mess when you open the next turn!
Bad luck Beam... but are you sure the UN would have meant a certain loss?
I'm not sure how many AIs were still left or how your diplomatic record has been in this game, but with you and krys as well as an AI on the ballot, you would have taken at least two votes away from him, maybe more... depending on the diplomatic situation, maybe you could even have won a UN victory, or let the AI win the game (ok you would have lost on score as far as the ladder is concerned, but it would have been spectacular) as you are the last one to be able to conduct diplo if krys would have built it.
Kemal, that's where I wasn't sure. Situation:
- 6 AI in the game
- 2 Humans
- I am not in the top3 based on Civ score
- I'll most likely miss the UN
Will I ever be a candidate?
UN is based on owning a certain part of the world area, or world population I thought, and as Paalikles said I believe humans are always on the ballot regardless of their state in the game.
So I do think you would have been a candidate yes, perhaps also even if humans don't automatically qualify. I hope that wouldn't have changed your decision about surrendering the game...? :(
If that's the case I would. [wallbash] Too late now, apart from reading the spoilers I would have used my units entirely different.
Socrates
02-10-2004, 22:55
I don't understand this part with the UN. I quite know how it works in SP (what Kemal says), but in PBEM I don't know. I'm sure I will from now on disable the Diplo victory in my games, because it is just a stupid feature that sucks big time.
I found out why I have war happiness on that pic from my capital building the Library : it puzzled me because we weren't at war at that time, but I've just opened the save, and in fact I was at war with the Russians. [blush]
But what about that military spying you did in the last turns ? Can you perform spying missions with the Intelligence Agency, even at war ? I was unable to perform any during the whole game, as I didn't build that one, and so felt safe from such spying. Any hint ?
I reckon the coastal fortress is totally broken. Totally. It doesn't fire when ships go past the city, and it's the 1st improvement that is destroyed, even before land units. BTW, man-o-wars have the bombardment ability, but they also have a defensive bombardment, like the archer !! How come ?
I didn't understand why I invited you to raze my city ? I was trying to warn you and get to a ceasefire (that would have greatly benefitted me). Maybe I didn't write a smart mail...
I haven't found what I was looking for in your spoiler : why did I outgrow and outresearch you at the end of the Middle Ages ? It puzzled me a lot, and I'm clueless.
Also understand that, if you got those "oil techs" first, it was because I completely shut down my research for many turns. I wanted cash instead, and then profitted from low prices... ;)
quote:Originally posted by Kemal
UN is based on owning a certain part of the world area, or world population I thought, and as Paalikles said I believe humans are always on the ballot regardless of their state in the game.
So I do think you would have been a candidate yes, perhaps also even if humans don't automatically qualify. I hope that wouldn't have changed your decision about surrendering the game...? :(
This is certain. Jack Merchant had a UN vote in our last game. He was in it, but shouldn't be (he was too small). I built the UN, so I should have been in it anyway. I thought that I would win UN, but the fact that Jack also participated made it a draw.
Ginger_Ale
05-10-2004, 22:02
The three possible people who can be in the vote (in SP):
1) the one who built it
2) one who owns 25% or more of population
3) one who owns 25% or more of area
(I think it's 25%, and not 20% - pretty sure)
if no one has 25% of area or population, then it goes to the highest in score.
In PBEMs however, it seems different I guess. We want a screenshot. :P
GA, this is much closer to the test results I posted in general discussions.
My spoiler of the Jacj Merchant PBEM: http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=766
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