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View Full Version : DrA vs Anarres *SPOILER*


DrAlimentado
08-04-2003, 02:44
and so it begins....

this match should be interesting.

anarres has taken a handicap of me being on emporer with 2 settlers whilst he (and the ai) are on deity (he has just the 1 settler).

so what are the odds :)?

I can win deity against the ai most times (if i micromanage to hell probably all the time, although this isn't thoroughly tested [:O]) but this is my first time ever pbem... and as we all know anarres is a pretty slick player. (read anal micromanager [lol])

now i know some of you here (if not all) are pretty shit hot players as I've lurked on cfc for a while and read your previous games, so all advice will be gratefully received [happy]

I am also hoping that I can somehow exploit the fact that he seems confident he'll win this (hence the handicap), hmmm, I'm still working on how I turn this to my advantadge! I think I have a pretty good grasp of his style too, lets call it aggressive and ruthless!

The diplo stuff will be interesting, years of sibling rivalry will make us both pretty hard negotiaters I reckon [argue] with neither of us afraid to push the limits.

From what can be seen in the start pictures we've posted at cfc in our open thread (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=49897) I'd say I've got the edge in start positions (dosen't mean a lot obviously as only 9 tiles are visible), and the handicap will help a lot obviously.

Erikk, our map maker obviously has a slightly sick sense of humour as I'm spanish (cunting conquistidors!! not the worst UU... but fucking close!) and anarres is mongols. Whilst keshiks don't bother me too much, scouts could really hurt if he gets a good tech lead/bonus cities, I'm hoping he's on a really small continent/island, but somehow it seems unlikely. (I'll laugh my ass off if he is on an island though)

shit, maybe I should just take odds on how long I'll survive [ponder]

anyway, enough ramblings from me, on with the game.

DrAlimentado
27-04-2003, 18:30
004 - Second settler founds the city of Palnu, NE of Iest. Palnu is sat right on an ivory resource (still get the gold bonus and no need to road) it will share the wheat with the capitol. When it is founded it reveals another wheat (on a floodplain, yay!) in its 21. Decide to prioritise a temple here.

007 - pop a hut, empty.

011 - pop a hut, barbs. My warrior is on a hill but cannot withstand the onslaught.

016 - research pottery on max science, switch to writing on min science (hmmm, maybe i should have gone straight for writing and traded for pottery... not that I've met anyone yet.)

017 - pop another empty hut... I have now popped 3 huts, all empty hut or barbs :(

018 - pop a hut, empty [mad3]

022 contact english scout, at last! I was beginning to feel a little isolated. Here's the minimap showing how much space there is around me:

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/dralimentado/2003427172416_isolated at turn 22.jpg
isolated

English start with Alphabet and Pottery and already have Ceremonial burial so no trades... I knew I should have gone straight for writing!!

023 - discover celts to the west and nice wheat in NE. trade Alphabet + allmygold(32) + 3gpt for WC and BW. Switch Writing to max science to get it in 22 turns.

024 - 033 - nada. no contacts, no huts. Only the celts seem to be anywhere near me, I don't even know where englands borders are.

034 - Disease hits Palnu :( Found Seville.

035 - Disease hits Palnu again [cry] Arse. My max science becomes worthless as a result of the pop drop. Feck and Arse.

037 - Meet the Iroquois. They are well ahead of me and have 4 techs I don't. They also have contacts with everyone, let's see if they sell my contact around.

039 - The French say hello. They are way ahead! I start to feel like the backwards neighbours.

043 - Found Toledo to the south.

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/dralimentado/2003427172722_ToledoFounded.jpg
Toledo

mmmmm, lots of bonus grassland. I couldn't force myself to put it right next to the wheat. That's just too many shields to resist right there, at least the spanish are religious with all these temples going up.

045 - anarres buys contact with me from someone (after i tell him i wont split the cost as im an isolationist imperial power and too backwards to afford it on top :p), tells me i am backwards. I agree.

DrAlimentado
27-04-2003, 20:07
047 - a wandering barb horsie gets another warrior :( This is 3 tiles from Lower Felda (was Seville) so I pop rush a spearman to join the lone warrior defending the city. With pop rushing and disease my research is still on min science.

048 - wake up from playing until early hours of easter morning! check turn, realise i have sent a settler in completely idiotic direction, curse myself, then see i have also mined the wrong tile! the one i have mined IS a bg but ISNT the last remaining bg shared by my capitol and palnu!! curse even more as i do some math and realise if i had mined the correct one i could have micro-managed my next settler in 2 turns instead of 3! as it is im going to miss it in 2 by just one shield :twat: agonise over turn...

France must have MM as we can map trade, I sell my map for HR and 16 gold (I will soon have my first horsie roaded, and soon after have another for trade). I am still 8 turns from writing on min science, which everyone else already has by now. (I suspect anarres has traded it all over - bastarrrd!)

049 - buy IW for 50 gold from anarres. My map is entirely worthless to all civs... they all seem to be sharing their maps every turn :(
Found Ibetha.

050 - Found Grappa (2 grapes in 9-tile radius.) IW reveals... no iron close-by. The nearest is under Celtic control (in an outlying city.)

051 - roaming barb horsie kills a spearman who was clearing an isolated spot of fog nr. Grappa, it was on a mountain too! (fuck the rng!). now the city is undefended if the barb horsie moves any closer... but at the end of turn a (unseen) celtic archer first diverts barb horsie and then kills it! hurrah for the celts!

057 - Valencia founded. I am building Horsies now in my capitol. My two core cities can pump horsies/settlers/workers as they both have good food and shields plus granaries and barracks. (Well Palnu will have barracks in 2 turns.)

067 - kill barb in NE with horse, reveal camp but a celtic archer gets there first and disperses it.

068 - Casablanca founded 11 tiles to the NE. It's a fair way from the capitol but there's a strip of desert inbetween with no resources on it. It's also got a wheat on a floodplain and a cow when it expands... I couldn't resist.

069 - Vitoria founded.

070 or so - fuck up diplo... After screwing it once I end up sending anarres 3x80 gold instead of just one lot of 80... twat! A simple tech buy takes 3 turns to complete and I waste some beakers.
Found Lower Iest next to a newly discovered horsie nr the capitol. I'm running out of nice spots for cities now.

071 - finally after some tech trading with the celts (I give them a 3gpt deal in the hope of improving relations and discouraging attack) and anarres I get onto researching Monarchy. I still feel very isolated.

074 - the celts have monarchy.

075 - Celts extort 26 gold, I give in for now. I know all civ pos (more or less) except anarres... he must be nw though... past the french and chinese.

078 - lone gaellic warrior on my border... ignore for the moment. This strange political system called Monarchy is being discussed in circles above my station. I try and buy my way in but it is still beyond my means.

080 - all AI but england now have monarchy... anarres is still in despotism... i can get it for 225 + 18gpt from france, I decide to wait.

I ask Anarres if he is near Monarchy, he says no, and try's to persuade me Republic is nearly always better. Hmmmm, it's quite possible he's done the maths to back this up... I am too near Monarchy (and I've bought Poly off anarres and mysticism cheap-ish off the celts) to abandon it now but decide to rethink my preference for monarchy in the future. As I'm religious I can hop governments anyway.

081 - Buy Monarchy from France for 252 + 15gpt. Immediately trade it to England for Philosophy, Code of laws and MM + territory map. I am beginning to catch up slightly with tech. Glorious Anarchy sweeps across the Spanish Empire :).

latest minimap:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/DrAvsAnarresMiniMap081.jpg

DrAlimentado
07-05-2003, 02:49
082 - King Alimentado reigns :)

084 - Iroquois extort WM +3gold. strange, as I have a fair bit more gold than that.

085 - quite a number of gaellic warriors are passing by vitoria heading 4 england...

I see from the F3 screen that anarres has been busy [hammer]

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/dralimentado/20035711823_mongolSlaves.jpg
mongol slaves

089 - chinese building sistine...

090 - french building sistine... turks building Sun-Tzu!,

091 - dan builds sun-tzu [cry], Arse, I am waaay behind in tech.

095 - chinese demand wm + 24 gold, I decide I've had enough (besides, they are busy beating up on england) and refuse, they back down :D!

098 - after much procrastination I give in and buy republik from anarres for 9gpt + 115gold. The deal cleans me out of money. (yes, I know, I should never have bought monarchy. Some things you got to learn the hard way.)

099 - arrrgh!! I declare anarchy, but stupidly I haven't left any money in the pot to pay my dues whilst I'm in anarchy... I go cap in hand to the french (who is super-polite to me for some reason) and borrow 18gold for 1gpt (this will be just enough to pay my dues to anarres and the french... dam, borrowing money to pay the dues on my existing loans... I feel stupid.

100 - We are a republik! Check out the Histograph:



http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/dralimentado/20035715124_anarres_score_100.jpg
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/dralimentado/20035715216_anarres_power_100.jpg
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/dralimentado/2003571538_anarres_culture_100.jpg

That handicap really makes the difference :D

DrAlimentado
07-05-2003, 03:05
Despite the increase in trade from Republik I am still only just breaking even, (dam unit costs) so I decide it's time to point out to the Celts that Richborough is sited on a historically spanish area. I demand what is rightfully ours - the town and surrounding lands, the Celts foolishly dismiss our claims leaving me with no option but to declare war.
I kill a couple of loose archers and take a slave, and move a mini-SoD of 11 horsies (the best I can muster :() next to Richborough. Shit, It's now defended by a pike [:O], a couple of turns ago it was still a spear... that'll teach me to wait.

The Celts kill my two loose horsies with MI. I hate it when horsies forget they can retreat. I am however glad that Gaellic warriors upgrade to MI as I intend to be doing most of the attacking here. (MI=D2,M1 GW=D2,M2 stupid stupid firaxis [nono])

101 - take Richborough with no retreats or losses!! (killing 2 MI + 2Pike with just horsies!! yay the rng!!) get one promotion to elite. I now have 3 lux's (richborough has furs in it's 9). I fortify my mini-SoD in Richmond as about half of em need to heal.

I just haven't got enough units to blitz the celts but my empire is pretty well defended. I really need to take Augustodorum for the iron, and if possible I'd like to take Lugdunum too to deny the celts iron at all.
In the meantime the celts will probably throw units at workers I have near the borders of my empire, I can hopefully chop em down in the open.

105 - Here's a pic of the Celts moving in for a retaliatory attack:

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/dralimentado/20035712212_anarres_CeltsAttack.jpg
Celtic attack


But wait! what's that stack with a spear on top... is it a SoD, no, it's a stack of 3 workers and a settler [crazyeye] hehe, the fools!
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/dralimentado/20035712341_anarres_Celt SoW.jpg
Celt SoW

107 - The war drags on, I am doing okay against the celts superior yet less mobile troops (thank-god they haven't connected their horses yet) but my small army is being worn down defending against a so far steady stream of MI. If I can survive this war I think I'll be in a fairly strong position, but it's touch and go for the moment...


The latest minimap:

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/dralimentado/20035715918_anarres_minimap_107.jpg

embarrasingly I still don't know where anarres is... but my guess is either of the red crosses. (He must be close to France as they have GL and he's been goading me about it)

Here's my Glorious Empire:

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/dralimentado/2003572231_anarres_SpanishEmpire_107.jpg

And the Glorious score :D

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/dralimentado/2003572337_anarres_AllScores_107.jpg

DrAlimentado
08-05-2003, 19:27
I think I have finally located Anarres! Look carefully at this pic...

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/DrAlimentado/200358182547_anarres_mongolBorder.jpg

here's the location on the minimap:

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/DrAlimentado/200358182719_anarres_mongolPosition.jpg


The annoying thing is that warrior has been trapped in that small bit of territory for a looong time... maybe anarres border has only just expanded to there, but it's quite possible it's been like that for ages and I just didn't see it :(

Also, perhaps I should just that disband that warrior and save the 1gpt upkeep?? am I stupid to have not done so already?

jack merchant
13-05-2003, 11:59
Probably, yes - but then I'm a maniacal pennysaver (but poundfoolish - I wasted over a 1000 gold on an immediate tech steal with a diplomat in my game versus Anarres [eek])

Have you started construction of a Forbidden Palace yet ? That should really help your income.

DrAlimentado
13-05-2003, 20:04
Hehe, I didn't disband him and something very amusing happened when the chinese border finally expanded... check the latest update in the open thread (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?postid=972127#post972127) for details [lol]

FP is top of my list, I've ended the war with the celts but no leader (I had a few elite wins but not enough to justify a complaint at not getting one :()

But where to build... I would say grappa, but it has precious few shields. So maybe it will be valencia with an eye to conquering the celtic empire. My income is ok right now, but the rest of the world is quite a few techs ahead and anarres has the GL in paris [cry]

I'll do a better update later with more details...

DrAlimentado
01-06-2003, 23:27
I've been very remiss with this spoiler... so I'll try to make up :)

After the short "iron war" against the Celts I bought some techs from anarres and built up a force of Knights - after 25 turns or so I was strong enough to go for the Celts properley. I had a couple of really bad rounds with the rng and then some good ones... of course the celts did everything wrong and slowly but steadily I pushed them off the map. I also declared on the English to take Norwich (founded on MY turf) and forced a tech from them in settlement.

During this time anarres wiped the french completely and took the GL pretty early (turn 120 IIRC). I have been constantly behind nearly everybody in tech, watching others start late MA wonders whilst I am still researching early MA techs...

And then in the last few turns I have managed to pull it back a bit. At turn 163 I finally triggered my GA with my single conquistidor by attacking the ottomans who have some annoying cities on my borders. Amazingly the same turn I get my first great leader!! about fucking time!! I decide against using it for Smiths and will keep it for a cav army.
With the boost in research from my GA I research Democracy pretty quick... anarres/china/turks/iroqouis are all industrial by now but have beelined so I monopoly trade Democracy with China for mil trad, magentism, and ToG to reach IA.
I kill a few turkish units then make peace (which they want)... in the peace deal I give them democracy + 260gpt in exchange for nationalism AND steam power!! (the going rate for just 1 of these is democracy + >800gpt !!) Cool... now I am ahead of anarres by nationalism and still in my GA. I also sign a MPP with china and get 10gpt from them, china have the biggest mil and could probably make life difficult for me or anarres right now.

Time to build/upgrade a shitload of cav and go-for/defend-against anarres I reckon... will rail as well obviously, it will be a couple of turns till i connect coal and I pay attention to some of my satellite towns to turn them into worker factories. No doubt anarres has a shitload of workers waiting (his style) and is busy industrialising his heartland, according to my advisors his military is small though so it'll be a short while at least until he's ready to attack me.

169 - I buy a wm from china, yep, anarres has RR connecting his main cities already [:O], I am just starting mine! He still dosen't have nationalism though and I have 20 cav, a cav army and a dozen rifles already waiting on my western border in case he shows up soon.

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/DrAlimentado/200361222532_anarres_minimap_169.jpg

DrAlimentado
04-06-2003, 02:43
172 - Dan asks me for a peace treaty... hmmm... I prevaricate for the moment. Thing is that I have MPP's right now with china, Ottomans and Iroquois... and he still dosen't have nationalism. If he wants peace then it's time for me to mount an attack I reckon!!

I won't be able to steamroller him but hopefully I can damage him enough that he won't recover. Unfortunately the lie of the land favours him in that he can defend a narrow border... and to do a sneaky with ships is a looong way round the southern cape... also I should think he's pretty much all rail-connected his cities by now so it would be to little avail anyhow.

I have 30+ cav and 14 or so rifles, and a larger mil according to my advisor. China has the biggest mil still and are a few techs ahead (but still cav and rifles I would think), getting them in a MA as soon as the MPP triggers will be crucial. I have 10 turns of GA left and am pumping cav (and workers) at a fair rate too.

Wish me luck :D

Aggie
04-06-2003, 08:16
It may be a very good idea to continu the war :)The Iroquois and Chinese appear to be valuable partners.

prettyvacant
04-06-2003, 08:35
hmm. everything seems to be in favour of going to war immediately (potential allies, cav v non rifles=rapidly running out of time etc) apart from annares asking for peace. My theory is that it is a double bluff - he really does want peace and thinks the best way to get it is to ask for it and you think that (as often in diplo) he is saying the opposite of what he wants). (clear?)

Have you got, can you get, a railway through the Iroqouis lands?

DrAlimentado
04-06-2003, 13:09
And in the cold light of day I am just a little worried... Anarres could could have a very decent number of military still, and has more advanced rails. He could get nationalism any second, and he has Sun-tzu and will mass-upgrade his defenders to Rifles. He could be stockpiling cash to buy/break my MA's with, or just have a hefty income. Dam, I will need to really study the situation in the next save I get!

One thing I might do though - I could send a force of just a couple of units to hopefully trigger the MA's against him. Let him deal with china for a while and build up my forces/rails a bit more.

ERIKK
04-06-2003, 13:54
YOU SHOULD ACT FAST, TIME IS WITH ANARRES I GUESS!

digger760
04-06-2003, 14:13
what about mobilization with the GA...do the two of them make kickass production? i have never seen that before.

DrAlimentado
10-06-2003, 03:47
173 - anarres has got MPP's... arse. invasion momentarily postponed...

174 - he's got nationalism AND industrialisation (well he says he has indust. could he be bluffing?)... hmm... electricity has also appeared for the chinese and iroquois. I smell a monopoly trade. bastarrrrd.

176 - finish last of my non-military builds and mobolise. I'm in GA till 182, GA + mobolisation is a sight to behold:

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/DrAlimentado/200361024442_anarres_176_MegaProd.jpg
mega-prod before indust.


Anarres is at least 1 tech, probably 2 techs in front. He is railing quicker than me but I am pumping 4-5 workers every 2 turns and catching up quick. I have also taken the precaution of not selling my WM anymore, I'm just buying the chinese one mainly (their the main AI) - hopefully this will keep anarres in the dark as to my railing progress :D

He will likely lead me in tech from now on... unless I can either get a monopoly trade on soemthing, or maybe do some tech stealing. I get Indust. in 2 turns, after that I'm going to consider going to 0 sci and just get money for steals. If we just sit it out there's a fair chance he'll get tanks and infantry before me and mount an attack or even go for some other win (UN?)

I think right now I have a bigger mil (according to F3, but he could have old units and do a mass upgrade at the first sign of trouble) and I'm sure I'm out-producing atm too (no1 in F11), but the MPP's are a tough cookie to beat. hmm.....



178 - After a bit of thought I decide to try and force some action :D I declare war on the iroquois and stick a worker inside their territory...

the iroquois attack my worker. triggering the MPP's:
chinese declare on english (unrelated...)
I auto-declare on english (MPP with chinese)
china declare on iroquois(MPP with me)
china declare on mongols(anarres) (MPP with me... I guess)
ottos declare on iroquois(MPP with me)
mongols(anarres) auto-declares on me (MPP with Iroquois... I guess)

I'm a little surprised that china declared on anarres, after all he hasn't attacked anyone!! [scratch] but all the happier for it :D

I'll cautiously take some Iroquois cities and get to a better position from which to attack anarres, my mil is steadily increasing...

DrAlimentado
29-06-2003, 16:48
We've played abother 20 turns.

I have burned a path through the iroquois and taken Salamanca which has some very useful wonders; Universal Suffrage, Pyramids, Smiths, and a useless one: Great wall. Razed the other iroquois cities and planted some of my own. The iroquois still exist but only on the other side of the pangea where they have a crappy 6 city state.

The Mongol-Spanish border is a stalemate...

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/DrAlimentado/2003629152833_anarres_193_Mongol-Spanish border.jpg


We each have stacks of Infantry blocking any advance and have both razed the approach routes so that there is a 2 tile no-mans land seperating us. The only exception is in the north where I have a city touching a mountain defended by 8 mongol infantry. Until tanks it seems unlikely there will be a breakthrough, although you never know, it is possible with cav and arty but it would be painful on the aggressor.

We have no agreements bar the settler creep one and we keep switching the ai's around against eachother every few turns, annoying for us both to an extent but I suffer more as I have a long border with the chinese. They can't really hurt me much anymore but it is a pain having to man a couple of chokepoints, I can channel them where I want and ping-pong their stacks until I turn them each time but it's a nuisance that I am unable to return to anarres :( - china is the only AI with any real military value and they have no way of attacking anarres (silly mountain border).

I am drawing level with the chinese in tech, although because my building infrastructure is crappy (don't have unis/banks in all core cities yet) my research rate is pretty slow still... I have a nasty feeling anarres has gained a few techs on me again. (I spent a few turns mobolised and with no research, built a shitload of infantry and arty and stole rep-parts from the chinese.)

Maybe I should do a blitz of the ai on my side whilst anarres will still have trouble attacking me, whatever I do it seems all too likely with his lead in tech and my own tardiness he will get tanks before me and have better cities quicker. Hmmm... I need a plan!!

*puts thinking hat on*

....

WildFire
29-06-2003, 19:00
How much money do you have? I have found that in my sp game, stealing techs worked very well.

DrAlimentado
01-07-2003, 02:55
well money can be got at the expense of research, problem is there is only china to steal from. For the moment I will use a mix of canny research (=researching monopoly techs) and stealing.

DrAlimentado
31-08-2003, 19:12
198:

Dr Alimentado says:
mil action: an arty captain got a bit over-zealous and commenced an arty barrage on baruun-urt
anarres says:

Dr Alimentado says:
results:
Dr Alimentado says:
12 arty fired: 4 misses: granary, marketplace, library destroyed :
anarres says:
ffs!
Dr Alimentado says:
2 'nothings' -
Dr Alimentado says:
ie: hits on troops but i cant see
Dr Alimentado says:
3 pop reduction
Dr Alimentado says:
mwuhahaha


199- we make a treaty (I guess anarres dosen't like his core being shelled ;))

quote:- peace, no embargoes or MA's against the other human, let current MA's and embargoes die naturally for 30 turns, ending in turn 229, at the start of DrA's turn.

-- no MA's, no MPP's, and no chinese RoP for 40 turns, ending at the start of anarres' turn 249

Hopefully I can catch up in infra in the treaty period. Some skillful research and stealing will be required to close the gap in tech though. I decide to research espionage as a monopoly tech for trade purposes as well as spying. I quickly finish off the ottomans and only remain at war with anarres (a phoney war whilst our MA's expire) - still my WW remains very high though [cry]

trade espionage (+>1000 gold) for scientific method. I attempt a couple of steals from china, the first is at medium safety and succeeds! I get refining from that one :) The next is also at medium safety but fails... I had got too cocky... I can't really afford to lose 2000+ gold on a failed steal! I decide to research for the moment and maybe save money for a safe steal if it will be a decisive move, I really don't want anarres to get tanks a long way ahead of me!

During all this period I am building factories and coal plants and getting my infra up to scratch. When anarres and I finally make formal peace (in 211) my WW drops from 40-60% to 0 and my empire becomes massively more profitable, hurrah! Now I actually feel like I can keep pace with anarres, although his infra is probably better and he still has a tech lead.

china remain at war with anarres and although a ROP is prohibited by our treaty I allow china to send a steady flow of troops through a narrow carridor of my lands to reach anarres. They are unlikely to damage him much but several 10+ stacks of infantry and guerillas pass through to hopefully pillage his tiles and be a general nuisance. After the stream dries up I close the gap to stop them sending their injured troops back through my land, china has territory on the opposite side of the pangea too so they will limp across anarres lands being a pest for a while yet.

218 - anarres gets Hoovers. This was kind of inevitable with his tech lead, although I had a leader waiting just in case I somehow got electronics before he could build it. China dosen't even have atomic theory so anarres must be holding onto atomics and electronics, hmm... I wonder if he built it or rushed it.

around 220 I manage to research steel and to my amazement anarres doesn't already have it! I decide to hold onto it myself, I could trade it for communism and sanitation with china (which I do badly need!) but then annares would likely trade china for it himself and would be 3/4 techs nearer to tanks than me. I think I can get a better trade once atomic theory is up. I set myself to research combustion in 5 turns. Commercial is beginning to pay off!

225 - research combustion, china has atomic theory now so I trade with china and get atomic theory and sanitation for combustion. Then my killer move... I safe steal electronics (4000+ gold...) and hold my breath... it works!! hehehehehe. a masterley move I think to myself, I have actually gone ahead in tech at a critical moment!! anarres still dosen't have combustion and I can get a head start on motorised transportation, w00t!!
Of course I make an incredibly stupid mistake - I FORGET TO GIFT ELECTRONICS TO CHINA TO PREVENT DAN TRADING IT FOR COMBUSTUION. Bah! stupid stupid stupid stupid! I have gifted him a tech. Fucker. Still, I am ahead a couple of turns in research even with this mistake.



231 - After lengthy and tiring negotiations (this is an understatement... ) we extend the peace treaty for 10 turns, and the no-MA treaty by 5 turns. F3 shows anarres has been expanding his forces over the last 10 turns very quickly, extremely quickly! I set the last few non-military builds ( a few police stations) and I mobilise, lets see who can outbuild the other in tanks :D

the new treaty:

[quote- peace, no embargoes against the other human, ending in turn 241, at the start of anarres' turn.

-- no MA's or MPP's against the other player, and no Chinese RoP, ending at the start of Dr A's turn 254
[/quote]

We will have peace now until 241, and it is a simple arms race. We will both have radio by then, of course my core is shielded by a large buffer zone of mainly useless cities (worker and science/tax factories) and anarres core is the border...


232 - Research motorised transportation! [tank] I check and Anarres hasn't got it :D He must still be at least a turn, hopefully more behind me.


238 - research Radio. I am still ahead of Anarres. Our forces are similar in size and expanding at very nearly the same rate although he may just have the edge on me. He also likely has more vet infantry than me as I conscripted heavily to block the chinese out of my territory. I do have a few more tanks than him though.


When the war comes he gets first strike, I am tempted to draw him in a little way then counter-strike. It will be hard for him to defend a border and attack....

Skyfish
31-08-2003, 23:04
Are you mobilized ?

DrAlimentado
31-08-2003, 23:22
quote: "231 - ...and I mobilise,"

yes :)

DrAlimentado
01-09-2003, 00:08
Here are some pics 2 turns before war:



http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/DrAlimentado/2003831225011_239 F3 both.jpg
forces


this pic shows how far my core is from my frontline:

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/DrAlimentado/2003831225511_239 frontline zoomout.jpg
zoomed out frontline


and this is the closeup of our borders:


http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/DrAlimentado/200383123152_239 frontline.jpg
border


Anarres gets first shot in 241. Salamanca contains Smiths, Pyramids, Suffrage, Great Wall and another irrelevant one... nice to keep if possible.

The rest of the non core can burn though, whilst i can shell anarres cities (well 2 of them) from the border. I wonder where he will strike??

Aggie
01-09-2003, 07:51
Good luck DrA! I hope that you can survive the first blow. With railroads only one weak spot can be enough to lose your entire strength. We've had a lot of examples the last few weeks. See Sky - ERIKK, and me vs OPD, Jack Merchant.

Anarres only has two cavalry, with movement three. That could be a very good thing. Use your fast units!

digger760
01-09-2003, 09:19
what are the workers for?? Bait?

Eldakkar
01-09-2003, 10:06
Wow! Exciting game this is! One - probably - silly question, where are your radar towers? I am not familiar with your graphic mod, but those pentagonny thingy I think are fortresses and the little factories and granaries add flavour to your irrigations and mines. Or are those radar towers somewhere hidden in between?

Skyfish
01-09-2003, 10:18
He probably does not have Radio yet, he last said he was researching it...

DrAlimentado
01-09-2003, 15:50
radio towers go up this turn (240). ("238 - research Radio." - sky, are you wearing your glasses? [tongue]) They didn't go up yet because I didnt need them yet, they do cost a slave each!

Workers aren't bait, my shitty cities are still producing workers every ten turns which can be used to top up cities when I draft from them. I also have a few settlers (just off the screen in F3) in case I want to aggressively settle upto his borders to launch an attack. Of course I will likely be reacting to anarres attack but I like to keep my options open.

Lt. Killer M
01-09-2003, 17:42
The one thing to do:


I personally do NOT agree that Trespass Is War in PBEM.

move a SOD inot his lands, call him up and say: see, I don't want war, but you have a window of opportunity here - don't take it and I will move home.....


;)

Aggie
01-09-2003, 18:34
quote:Originally posted by Lt. Killer M

I personally do NOT agree that Trespass Is War in PBEM.

I consider it an act of war when you do it to me ;)

Lt. Killer M
01-09-2003, 18:59
quote:Originally posted by Aggie

quote:Originally posted by Lt. Killer M

I personally do NOT agree that Trespass Is War in PBEM.

I consider it an act of war when you do it to me ;)


then go ahead and kick me out or declare war ;)

DrAlimentado
01-09-2003, 22:52
here is my preperation for war next turn:


http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/DrAlimentado/200391213916_240 frontline.jpg
raze and burn

seville is the only way he can reach me and pour through, I have a LOT of infantry/arty there. I also have 20+ inf on the RR mountain behind it, to prevent the rails and radar being bombarded off it.

My 70+ tanks are waiting near salamanca for any needed counter-punch.

If he hits I should be able to hit back harder. If this war stalls I will win in the long run I reckon, commercial is powerful at this stage of the game and I have tons more land than anarres :D

Ehecatl Atzin
02-09-2003, 09:11
Do you know if he plans to attack via land or sea?

Aggie
02-09-2003, 09:13
Via sea is only a good idea with marines, otherwise the troops are cannonfodder with rails.

Lt. Killer M
02-09-2003, 09:42
Dr A, looks good to me: you do weaken your cities but you keep him from parking troops on mountains to hop on the next turn....

DrAlimentado
02-09-2003, 16:50
Anarres has no boats whatsoever so I know he can only attack by land. Amphibious is also not researched yet (although anarres could be researching it - unlikely imo - china could also be researching it but as yet no-one has.) Besides as Aggie says rails make attacking a beachhead very easy. Also the second anarres starts building transports I build destroyers [fdevil] It is a long way round for either of us to do any sea landings too, I'll attach the minimap so you can see what I mean.

The 'raze and burn' method I have used does limit my own options for attack, but having failed to forest the border I think it was the sensible option (hmm... yes I should have forested it in hindsight, I am very inexperienced at modern or late industrial warfare even in solo play and it shows!)
The cities of mine I have weakened are not core so I'm not too worried about the marginal loss in productivity - it amounts to a few gpt lost in scientists/taxmen at most.

The onus is now on anarres to attack as I have the lead in land and I *think* in research/productivity. Anarres also seems to think that if we sit it out I will win (although this could be a bluff, who knows...) I am still looking at it trying to think what I would do in anarres position, no doubt he will investigate seville and see the 50+ infantry there. Hmm... I can't wait to get the turn back!! Maybe the game will be decided in the next few turns...

DrAlimentado
03-09-2003, 16:44
turn 241 - anarres battle report (1st turn of war)

anarres says:
battle report
anarres says:

Destroy Barracks, Walls, Temple
Kill 5 citizens
Take 1HP from Inf x10
Take 2HP from Inf x5
33 misses

Attack Vet Infs with Tanks:

11 tanks retreat
8 tanks lost
Kill 14 Inf
anarres says:
hehe, now there is a Cav army, a single tank kills it. [ ]

Now we are on to the 2/3HP Regular/Vet Inf:

2 tanks retreat
2 tanks lost
Kill 17 Inf
anarres says:
Attack with elite tanks (promoted this turn):

2 tanks lost
6 tanks retreat
Kill 29 Inf

Get a leader. [ ]
anarres says:
so a total of 60 inf killed, i lost 12 tanks


turn 241 - my turn:


Hmm... ok, I was stupid. I should either have razed seville and just defended the mountain or put more vet infantry in seville. I didnt think through anarres bombarding the walls away and getting only a fortified bonus for my defenders - the loss of 60 infantry (a lot conscripts, but still) is a bitter pill to swallow! Oh well, at least he couldnt take the city and pour through, all is not lost.

Anarres has over 60 infantry on the mountain defending his tanks, I do some calcs and agonisingly decide that to attack him (even with my now 90-strong tanks) is suicide! However if its impossible for me it is also impossible for him, so...
I move a cav 1 square in to mongol territory to raze a radar tower and allow me to see what goes on with my arty bombardment. Move my 40 odd arty onto the mount and bombard Baaran-Urt:

1 hp reductions: 5
2 hp reductions: 3
Pop reduction: 10
Buildings destroyed:
Harbour
Market
Library
Bank
University
Factory
Misses: 20

I then move all the infantry I can spare onto the mount, some 40 odd vets and some conscripts. Hopefully on a mountain with fort they will hold.
I move my cav back and abandon Seville - then bombard the rails and road off the tile. Now the mount is the only way to advance, unfortunately the border has changed (another oversight!) so the mount is in anarres territory, grrr...

And now the killer... I go to draft some conscript infantry from my cities. Now all my cities are extremely happy, I have 8 luxes, no WW (it has been 30+ turns since I was at war) and some war-happiness I think from anarres declaring on me. The instant I draft my empire descends into 50-70% WW [mad3] WTF!!! This is clearly not right [cry], I think we have a bug... this is so fucking stupid I can't believe it. [aargh] UN-FUCKING-BELIEVABLE!!!! I am really really mad about this.

Hopefully we can find a way round this bug, because I am fucked by a crippling lux slider now.

DrAlimentado
03-09-2003, 17:08
well some people are telling me that this is just the way WW works... we'll see.

Skyfish
03-09-2003, 19:38
I'd like to run some tests about this WarWeariness issue actually would it be a problem for you to send me the save ?
do you know the admin password ?

Plux
03-09-2003, 19:48
Isn't it so that every bit of ww is 'remembered' for 20 turns?? So if you go back to war within this period, then ww is still active to some extent?

DrAlimentado
03-09-2003, 20:04
Plux - the point is that I had been at peace with everyone for 30 turns, so the remembered WW should have expired.

DrAlimentado
03-09-2003, 20:20
sky, you are welcome to investigate! I don't have the admin pw but it is probably buried in the original map thread (the request is in the first ever post in map-making i think)

let me know when you want the save.

Skyfish
03-09-2003, 20:42
I'd actually need the save from before anarres started this offensive AS WELL (turn 24Ob ?)
Tonight is good but I wont have the results in a while...

Lt. Killer M
04-09-2003, 13:17
the border change put a lot of troops into enemy lands - WW increase???????

DrAlimentado
04-09-2003, 17:00
the border change shouldn't take effect until the next turn, I think the WW just comes from the amount of infantry I lost and being bombarded.

Because I was somewhat 'flustered' by the turn I neglected to revolt, with some luck the troops being in enemy territory will now push me over the next WW level in the next turn and my government will fall.

Sky - we need a proper investigation into WW in pbem, it looks to me as though I am simply suffering WW as it would be in a regular game - this dosen't quite jive with anecdotal evidence of pbem-ers that WW is much reduced but it also dosen't look like a bug as such.

I have outlined the case for an investigation into WW in this WW thread (http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=841) - I suggest we direct our efforts there. We can use the turns of this game if needed but lets wait till this game is actually finished first ;) A controlled test would be more useful anyway imo (and not exclude anarres, who's opinions are after all of some value!)

DrAlimentado
11-09-2003, 17:06
242:

Anarres has ousted my spy, I replant immediately :D

weigh up the options and decide to pull back my stack in the north (that are now in mongol territory due to border collapsing when I abandoned seville)
I bombard and pillage the road and rails off the tile to prevent anarres pouring through the mountains. I now have to defend 3 tiles instead of 1 but I still haven't competed batlefield medicine, besides, having my arty and tanks sitting in his land is too restricting as I can't move and fire in the same turn.


declare revoloution at end of turn... I will lose a turn of production but I will fall soon if I stay in democracy. Go off to find and thouroughly analyze WW and corruption articles to decide what government to switch to next turn...


243:

anarres battle report:

quote:

244(sic) - Shell Madrid with 26 Arty:

5 x 1HP
1 x 2HP
3 citizens killed
destroy walls
16 misses

Shell Badajoz with 21 Arty:

3 x 1HP
3 x 2HP
6 citizens killed
destroy walls
8 misses

Send in the tanks to Madrid:

2 die
1 retreat
9 Infs killed

Wow, less defence than I thought! I decide to raze it.

I take the 2 lone arty with a Cav. I take 1HP from the lone (top left) Inf on the mountain.

I decide to shell Badajoz some more (9 shots)

1 x 1HP
1 x 2HP
1 citizens killed
6 misses

Send in 4 tank armies to Badajoz, killing 4 Vet Infs.

Send in single tanks, 9 Infs killed, no retreats or losses. This time I take the city before abandoning it:

Finally I move in Inf to consolidate.





After much analysis I decide to go communist [:O] - no doubt some of you think me mad but I think it is the right decision. I lose productivity in my core but the actual effect is that I go from producing a tank a turn in about 6 cities to a unit every 2, about 4 or 5 cities stay at a unit per 2. Some outlying cities go from a unit every 2 to every 3. However... I lose all WW, and the net effect is that I actually gain some gpt (from lowering lux rate). I can also stop worrying about WW at all - I was at 50% unhappy (and this with UniSuffrage AND police stations), another turn of having 40+ infantry attacked (not killed... just attacked) and/or bombarded, cities attacked etc. would have toppled me in democracy, and sent me into max unhappiness in republik. I also gain productivity in all my shitty cities, they are now producing shields and commerce on a limited scale. Oh, and as an added bonus my spies are now l33t muthafuckin ninja spies [ninja] Although long term communism is crap i think it will serve me well for the duration of our total war.


here's how it looks at the beginning of my turn:

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/DrAlimentado/200391116159_243 frontline start.jpg


As you can see I got problems...


Anarres has ousted my spy again [mad3], I immediately replant again [lol] hopefully my vet spy status will frustrate any more counter-spying attempts :D

battle report for 243:

Use a tank to kill the lone enemy tank on the rubble of madrid,
the same tank kills the lone cav 1 tile NE (on mountain).

Arty bombard on the stack next to where madrid was:

26 1 hp
11 2 hp
5 misses

Tanks attack the same stack:

43 infantry kills*
8 tank kills *
- *some tank kills accidently recorded as infantry kills I think... sorry!

5 of my tanks retreat
2 of my tanks die

stack destroyed!


Attack the tank and cav on the ruins of Badajoz: 1st attacking tank dies, 2nd tank finishes off tank then kills cav too.


Attack the small stack of infantry and workers on the mountain on our northern border:

9 vet inf + 1 conscript killed.
for
1 retreat
2 losses

capture the 19 workers

use cavalry to pillage some road/rails/forts nr to the multi-army stack.

found madrid in same place as before, found badajoz to the north to consolidate some neutral tiles.



Here are the pics, the frontline at the end of my turn:

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/DrAlimentado/2003911152727_243 frontline.jpg

I have isolated the army stack somewhat. It can still reach me but would have to leave its infantry behind.




The F3 screen:



http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/DrAlimentado/200391116535_243 F3.jpg


I am afraid of his armies....

This game could easily go either way I reckon. Theoretically I am in a stronger position in empire-size and troop-size, but he has a very slight edge in the terrain at our borders now, and unfortunately I am still making stupid mistakes - like razing seville too late and leaving my troops stranded etc. So I would say he could still outplay me... bastard!!

Lt. Killer M
11-09-2003, 17:18
wow, this one is a cliffhanger!

digger760
11-09-2003, 17:38
good luck DrA

Skyfish
12-09-2003, 18:20
Good move going to Commie... its got a bad rep but could be used more in specific situations (like yours now)

Good luck with the rest : I would beeline for Modern Armours ...

DrAlimentado
10-10-2003, 20:31
244: battle report;

bombard mountain in N

17 arty

7 misses
vet inf:
2 2hp
2 1hp
inf army:
1 2hp
5 1hp



245: battle report

42 arty bombard stack S of baraan-urt

8 misses
11 2hp
23 1hp

I also bombard some rails off tiles around Tosontengel and advance up to the border on the middle mountain range. Now I will be able to bombard Tosontengel next turn [fdevil] - if he wants to attack my stack on the mount he will have to leave his attackers on grassland.



246:


research flight :) I check and anarres dosen't have it yet :D I was going to trade it to the chinese but they won't give amphibious for it [confused] if anarres wasn't at war with them I would just trade it for their paltrey 150gold but as he is I will wait and see if they give me a better offer. (to stop him from giving/trading them flight and improving his rep/getting amphib)

after much agonising I set research to mech Inf. Even if anarres ignores fission and goes straight for modern tanks it will be a while, hopefully he will ignore mech inf as unessential, then I can use mech Inf and tank stacks to do him some serious damage!



bombad rails off tiles around Tosontengel.

49 arty bombard Tosontengel itself:

damage to infantry armies:
1 hp: 2
2hp: 4

miss: 24
pop killed: 10
buildings detsroyed:
police station
civil defense
courthouse
granary
market place
library
factory
bank
university

I then launch an attack on the celts, I take 2 cities straight away (they have a 3/4 infantry each), I move a stack of tanks next to oxford ready to take it next turn.

With the celts destroyed there will be 5 civs left, or 4 if dan finishes off the french (they have a single city left). I'm still juggling the possibilities of a UN vote in my head... I had thought the chance of anarres winning a UN vote as nil as he told me his rep is shot from screwing the chinese for a 800gpt deal (and he is now at war with them.) but I have been informed that it's all too easy to bribe them with modern techs. He has a leader to rush UN with but hasn't got flight yet, in 9 turns I can get MA's and MPP's on my turn when our treaty expires which should prevent him winning a vote for a further 6 turns. My guesstimates on research time based on the speed of his research recently and the tech calc would suggest about 9 turns to fission for him... hmm... I can always take out the english to further reduce the nos of civs. And I can likely take out the chinese as well before a vote if need be.



247:

Dan has gifted the celts a city [mad3] the little fucker!!!


battle report:

26 arty bombard infantry 1 tile S of B-Urt

16x 1hp
4x 2hp
4 misses

all inf now at 1 hp
bombard rails and roads off tile


16 arty bombard tosontengel

3x 1hp
1x 2hp
10 misses
2 pop reduction

17 arty bombard mountain tile 1 E of B-Urt

Inf army hits:
9x 1 hp
5x 2 hp
3 misses


bombard road off unprotected tile SE B-Urt





turn 249:

bombard some improvements from tiles nr baruun-urt

bombard stack on E mount next to baruun-urt with 53 arty

29 misses
army 1hp - 5
army 2hp - 1
inf 1 hp - 14
inf 2 hp - 4




turn 250:


battle report:

70 arty bombard mountain tile 1 E of B-Urt

misses: 27

vet inf 1 hp: 28
2hp: 10

inf army 1hp: 1
2hp: 1

tank 1hp: 1
con inf 1 hp: 2

DrAlimentado
10-10-2003, 21:04
turn 251:

bombard road/rails off tile 1S 1SE of bayanhongor with 2 destroyers and a bomber, so begins operation mountain creep...

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/DrAlimentado/20031010193250_251 operation mountain creep.jpg
operation mountain creep

The purpose of removing those rails; to isolate the pink dot tile from arty or tanks... I now put a settler and 6 infantry (- why 6? because the only units he can reach me with here are cav, and he only has 5 :D) on the pink dot, when I found next turn this will give me posession of the mountain (red dot - with workers ready to road it and 50 infantry to protect them, to attack them he will also have to expose tanks to a counter attack)

Once on the red dot mountain I can bombard bayanhongor from my own territory and reduce a 3rd core city of dan's to rubble. He won't like that one little bit! [fdevil] I disband santiago (the ruins) so as to comply with the no settler creep rule we have. (I'll found the pink dot city next turn.)


bombard road/rails off tile 1E tosontogel with 2 arty

bombard stack on mount 1E of B-Urt with 70 arty;

misses: 20

inf army 1hp: 8
2hp: 2

tank armies 1hp: 7
2hp: 5

vet inf 1hp: 19
2hp: 9



turn 252:

dan proposes peace [lol] I guess the thought of losing a 3rd core city was just too much for him!

The peace negotiations go a lot easier this time - I am still pretty stubborn but more for appearances than anything else... I am pretty confident that peace will benefit me greatly.

quote:
we agree peace until turn 279, ending on my turn (27 turns)
no MPP's or MA's against eachother until 280, ending on anarres turn (28 turns)

MA's vs AI are okay, as are RoP's

no settling new cities on our border - except the immediate refounding of santiago which was disbanded last turn to do a settler creep manouvere.

we can both work all tiles up to the border.

no tresspassing!


here's a log of the peace negotiations:icon_paperclip.gif chatlog 252.txt (http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/DrAlimentado/20031010194155_anarres diplo chatlog 252.txt)



I sign a RoP with china and move units to block dan from attacking chinese territory.

I go into anarchy, oh, and thanks to Sky for checking out whether I would get WW when I changed from commie :D He played through a couple of turns for us to settle the question definitively as peace was pointless for me unless I knew I wouldn't suffer from it!

turn 253:

enter into Republic. wow... it feels good to have research back! still... I kinda miss the production in my shitty cities, but no question that I am a LOT better off!

I take out lizzie in a nasty RoP rape manouvere [:O] her handful of infantry stand no chnace against 90 tanks and 70 arty parked next to her cities. I make sure I finish the job in one turn, there will be no gifting of cities by anarres this time.

I took some photos of lizzies demise;

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/DrAlimentado/20031010194436_253 english wipeout1.jpg
Before

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/DrAlimentado/20031010194654_253 english wipeout2.jpg
During

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/DrAlimentado/2003101019490_253 english wipeout3.jpg
After



turn 255:

I will research computers in 3 turns... and then it's a beeline for MA I guess... hmm....

here's the current minimap:

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/DrAlimentado/20031010195112_256 minimap.jpg


although I reckon anarres must have a lead on tech from me being commie I think I will now outpace him, how long it will take me to catch up I don't know... so many options... he could have gone straight for MA, or fission for UN, or even comps for MI, dam this game is close!!

DrAlimentado
15-10-2003, 00:39
turn 258:

research computers! I set to rocketry on 1 scientist to get some gold quick for inf upgrades, I want mech inf protecting me when I blitz china! I then trade it with the chinese for amphib... assuming dan will be at war with them for a couple of turns yet - when I will then destroy them - he won't be able to get his grubby hands on it. I then notice dan has made peace with the chinese [:O] if he has another modern tech he can trade it and get comps [cry] shit...


turn 259:

anarres has built seti!! :( he still has a leader too... fucking pre-building bastard!

He must have got computers the turn before me - if I am just 1 turn behind in research then commie didn't hurt me as bad as I thought, unless he has got two techs ahead by now, hmm....

I upgrade 66 inf to mech inf with my cashpile.

China is building the UN... hehe, nice of them to research Fission for me :D just in time for me to kick the crap out of them too.

turn 260:


Time to get nasty with mao, I destroy his core in one swift go - RoP rape is just plain evil. I get a leader pretty quick and turn it into an army. Hopefully there will be another before china is gone.

beijing is a real trophy city... Bachs, Sistines and Shakespeare's!! Nice for a religious civ :D My happiness goes up by 4 faces throughout my core, and 2 even in the shitty cities. And finally a use for Shakespeare's... keeping conquered pop happy ;)

the chinese counterattack is pitiful... cavs attacking mech. oh, and a fleet of annoying ironclads bombarding my improvements.


turn 261:

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/DrAlimentado/2003101522248_261 minimap.jpg

most of my tanks are put into cities to heal. With my arty stacks and 30 healthy tanks I take the next 3 biggest chinese cities and get another leader. Next 2 turns I will be able to finish them off, it would be 1 turn but I just can't reach all of their cities in 1 go ;)

Jack suggested I go for tac-nukes and the more I think about it the more I like it :D Only problem is research time.
Hmm... we have 18 turns of peace left and I am 6 turns from rocketry at -40gpt with 250gold (I have built research labs in my core now). If my reckoning by tech calc is right I could then get space flight in 10 just breaking even - but my unit costs are going up every turn, it will be very very tight to actually get any nukes built in time for my first strike. So I have a brainwave... Negative Cashflow!! A nasty exploit I have never used but it might just do the trick here! [fdevil] I set research to 100% and turn all my taxmen into scientists, I can get rockets in 3 :D I will lose a building and a mil unit per turn but it's a cheap price to pay... wow, I can forsee a nuclear holocaust [satan]



turn 262:

nanking flips, reg rifle defends... I have mech inf and tanks parked outside every chinese city for this eventuality.

I painstakingly take almost all of china, just 3 cities left now.



turn 263:

hmm... I lose a Cathedral this turn from my neg cashflow. I thought it would always be a cheap building, but no matter.

take china down to one city, bombard it until it's size1 and all defenders redlined, he still won't talk to me. Mao cannot die until I have extorted Fission from him [satan]



turn 264:

I research Rocketry :D Space Flight in 5. Thankfully anarres hasn't got rockets yet, hmm... I wonder what he's up to.

finally Mao will talk... he refuses to give me Fission though [:O] I have taken his entire empire and can snuff him out with a flick of my finger but no! ahh... I have to not only trade him rocketry but throw in 200gpt as part of the peace deal in order to extract the secret of the atom from him [lol] Before the ink is even dry on the treaty the chinese have ceased to be an issue [fdevil]


turn 265:

I notice in F3 that anarres has disbanded a shitload of his arty [confused]... hmm... he must be using them to dump shields into production. I think he's disbanded some infantry too. Although I think arty is pretty useful I realise I have a bunch of conscript inf standing about doing sweet fa, so I disband them into builds for research labs in some semi-core cities and temples in the former chinese bloc. I want the temples to expand borders to see how close I can get to domination, it's further than I thought to dom because I hadn't figured the coasts into it properley [rolleyes] but if I crack his frontline I should get dom before I have to take out his inner core.





turn 266:

the minimap:

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/DrAlimentado/20031015221054_266 minimap.jpg


and here's how our forces square up:

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/DrAlimentado/2003101522101_267 full F3.jpg

the marines and transports were for a planned takeout of the Celts but dan finished them off himself at some point.


anarres suggest in chat that we ban neg cashflow... hmm. well it's a bit late in the day for me... I tell him no!

Skyfish
15-10-2003, 19:42
[lol] Great to see the master getting caught at his own game [lol]
He's always complaining to me I " imposed" new rules WHILE the game was played in our 1v1...
Very glad to see he's doing it here *himself* :D
I think u r gonna win now...
My money's on you buster ;)

Skyfish
15-10-2003, 19:43
[afro]

DrAlimentado
16-10-2003, 02:16
turn 269:

I research spaceflight! Oooh... and look what I built the very same turn [satan]

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/DrAlimentado/2003101611934_269 manhatten project.jpg


Well I like how it's going right now ;) But he could already have synthetic fibres (& ecology) and be about to get rockets... I just don't know. I do know he hasn't got Fission or Rocketry (or Space Flight obviously) yet, but he could still research a couple of techs and/or steal them from me and get nukes. Even if he does get nukes though I will have had them for at least a couple of turns before him and my stockpile will be bigger than his! And he can only reach my shitty side from the frontline whilst I can reach his core [fdevil]

The nuclear race is on! [10 turns till armageddon][evil]

Lt. Killer M
16-10-2003, 10:07
remember: double-nuking a city kills all defenders :D you just need one lousy marine or paratrooper then. May be better than nukeing double the number of cities once.....

col
16-10-2003, 11:39
Hehe - negative cashflow can be a real winning manoevre. I won a few tournaments games that way - blazing through the research tree faster than anyone. One building / unit is a very small price to pay for 100% research all the time. It doesnt seem to be used very often but I like it.

If the building goes in an outlying city , it doesnt matter and if it goes in the core, your core cities can rebuild it if necessary straight away. Its handy having lots of old surplus units too just to decrease the chances of an important unit going. I was never able to figure out which building / unit would go next - but arties seemed to go before other units generally but not always.

The tough part is never having money for bribes etc - but now you're down to just you and Dan that doesnt matter - so it would be crazy to run anything other than negative cashflow now.

Grille
16-10-2003, 12:08
Hehe...

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Grille/200310161106_pic0.gif
14.96KB

Maybe you've also some plan for some sub, hehe...

DrAlimentado
16-10-2003, 18:48
Col - it's a lowdown dirty exploit but it is dam useful! Of course logically it would make more sense for the game to deduct in shields what you are in deficit by, and that would kill the exploit dead. strange that anarres would try and ban it so late in the game though... maybe he investigated a city of mine and saw what I was up to?

Just for Killer - the map showing the frontline reachable by nukes.

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/DrAlimentado/20031016174731_269 frontline.jpg
269 frontline

Lt. Killer M
16-10-2003, 19:09
I'd say double nuke and raze all his coastals, cut of the line Tseterleg-Ereen-Tours, then use normal troops to bombard and raze his border towns....

col
17-10-2003, 10:29
What are those funny little white penises? Radar towers?

Lt. Killer M
17-10-2003, 10:44
siols, col, silos. for corn and wheat and stuff. miniature granaries, to be exact - or do you think you have been building lil' white penisis in Civ3 all the time????


[:p]

Grille
17-10-2003, 10:47
[:o]
Where are the counterparts anyways?

Lt. Killer M
17-10-2003, 11:00
Grille, you just posted one ;)

here's more:[:X][mad2][mouth][queen][:o][:o][:o][:o][:o][tongue]

Grille
17-10-2003, 11:18
[scratch]Hmm... one of them is really scary.

[mouth]<--imagine the [silo]

Lt. Killer M
17-10-2003, 11:26
Grille: I know I know, but some silos are not natural ones......

DrAlimentado
18-10-2003, 00:49
hehe, I use a railroads.pcx that makes the industrial age quite cluttered, but I like it. Anarres was very dissaproving of it when he last visited and we played hotseat ;)

DrAlimentado
20-10-2003, 04:29
turn 271:

ecology in 2, I turn down the slider to 20% to still get it in 2 but with ~+900gpt!! the wonders of max research [crazyeye]


turn 273:

I research ecology :) synthetic fibres (and modern armour) is 4 turns away... which will leave me with 2 turns to get max cash to upgrade my tanks! I check the diplo screen and see anarres already has ecology (but not Fission/Rockets/Amphib :D), hmm... I bet he has got synthetic fibres already and is researching Rocketry right now (for alu to get MA.) Or maybe he is max cashing and saving to / trying to steal techs for nukes... he knows in 6 turns that i am going to nuke him after all...




turn 277:

I research Synthetic Fibres! :D Modern Armour is here! Now I will go max cash for 2 turns so I can upgrade my tanks.

I check diplo and Anarres dosen't have Synthetic Fibres! [:O]! And still no Rockets/Fission/SpaceFlight... oh my... what the fuck is he doing?!? Hmm... he could have gone miniturization, but he can't even get Robotics (Radar Arty - Manuf plants) without Fission... bizarro.

Meanwhile my war preperations go well... I have disbanded a load of arty into nuke sub builds to better reach his core in the north. I have also built some jets to do recon, he might well stick some stacks outside cities anticipating the nuclear showdown - hopefully I can find them [fdevil].


turn 278:

final prep for war; place nuke subs into position, same with transports loaded with marines, set a few conquistidor builds for next turn (for taking nuked cities unreachable otherwise), stack nukes in frontline cities...

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/DrAlimentado/2003102025355_278 warprep zoomout.jpg
297.74*KB




turn 279:

anarres has got all my techs (4) in 1 turn! cheeky little fucker... but it matters not...

Here's why;

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/DrAlimentado/2003102032524_279 F3.jpg
113.68*KB



I make an ultimatum;


DrAlimentado says:
btw... if you want to avoid a nuclear holocaust the gracious spanish empire will accept a guaranteed peace - of course you would have to dismantle your mil and pay me 400gpt as security? do you accept?
anarres says:
no
anarres says:
just do it
DrAlimentado says:
i didnt think you would
...
DrAlimentado says:
but never let it be said that we didnt give the barbaric mongols a chance of peace!


I do some recon work with my jets, and then the nukes start flying....

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/DrAlimentado/2003102032822_279 after zoomout.jpg
403.06*KB


by the end of it I have nuked nearly all his core, razed 3 coastal cities with marines, and razed 3 inland cities with conquistidors.

He is fucked. [fdevil]

Before and After pics of anarres empire can also be found in our open thread (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?postid=1306084#post1306084)

Aggie
20-10-2003, 08:32
Wow [eek] FUBAR. Even worse than I expected!!

PS: How is the global warming now? ;)

Lt. Killer M
20-10-2003, 09:37
Jesus fucking Christ!

Stapel
20-10-2003, 09:44
Hehehehe! That looks nasty!

Aggie
20-10-2003, 09:47
Killer, you said that anarres should respond with nukes (in the open thread). Looks like he didn't have them looking at the military advisor screenshot [eek]

Lt. Killer M
20-10-2003, 10:06
aggie, yes, I wanted to make a point about MAD - you have to make SURE that you also have a lot of nukes if your enemy builds them - or that the peace runs long enough for you to catch up.... in this case, there is no M in AD ;)

Grille
20-10-2003, 10:50
Wow!
:eek:
"10 gpt for each nuke NOT fired" (plus anarres could possibly gain some time to build up at least some 'MAD'-nukes then) looks rather very cheap compared to this devastation.

What's with unit losses on anarres side (F3-the day after)?

Aggie
20-10-2003, 10:52
@Grille, I agree with you. DrA took some risks there! That F3-screen I want to see too!

Grille
20-10-2003, 11:24
DrA,
another question: you go commie (or monarchy)?
Switching from republic is probably a wise move, regarding the chances of collecting a lot of wwp now..

If ww works only half as effective as in SP games ([???]), anarres is really fucked w/ all that cities being razed etc (plus being non-religious)...[fdevil]

DrAlimentado
20-10-2003, 14:45
I went Commie straight away - we actually had a bug at turn 273 which crashed the game until we re-declared war and instantly made peace :( - and I got full WW (50 - 70%) again then and now. There is some debate about whether I should have had it or not... turn 273 was 21 turns after we had previously made peace, but there is conflicting research about how WW decreases.

IIRC anarres still had the majority of his troops intact, - 20 or so mechs, I'll grab a shot next turn in the unlikely event this game goes on. He is unable to reach my troop stacks next turn , and I kept 3 nukes back just in case he is foolish enough to try and threaten my stacks of MA. I am pretty sure he will resign now ;) Even though I am back to slow research he has no core at all... just 1 mega-city left (Uliastay) and I have disconnected a bunch of luxes to boot. I have also built temples in the former chinese bloc and got all the coastal tiles etc and am now just 30 tiles from a dom win!

As far as the peace offer goes, it was conditional on anarres dismantling his entire Military completely. I didn't think for a moment he would accept - but if he had then the second he built a single nuke (or any mil unit) I would have unleashed the storm! Removing my spy would have been interpreted as an act of war of course - call them US (United Spanish) weapons inspectors and you get the idea ;) I am confident I could have outresearched him and outproduced him to SS. -400gpt would have hampered him even further.

Cynics and Mongol-sympathisers have said that the peace ultimatum was just for PR purposes - an unrealistic offer that the Mongls could never accept. They claim that it was done to sway domestic opinion into supporting an imperialist invasion of sovereign Mongol territory. These kind of Mongol-loving scum will always complain about shit, because they are self-hating and have a pathological hatred of the Glorious Spanish empire and the Spanish way of life. We made it clear if they loved the Mongols so much they were welcome to go live there - they have been silenced.

digger760
20-10-2003, 15:25
good game DrA, looks like you will win...and you should win the picture count as well 71 images to 65 in Annares thread...thank god i can use broadband at work.

DrAlimentado
20-10-2003, 16:12
Anarres has said he will fight on! He claims to have 130 MA - a lie! But we will destroy him whatever the case... Even if we went 1 for 1 I can replace troops and he can't ;)

Pastorius
25-02-2005, 11:08
[bump]

Nice game [groucho]