***ABANDONED*** Digger760 vs Melifluous

[digger760]

stated this one last night here is the start position, best start yet for me in a PBEM (thanks to anarres who generated the map)

Image Insert:
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/digger760/2003477449_startvsMel.jpg
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[digger760]

4000BC.

I have set the city workers on the bg to the south and set research to ironworking at 100%. I'm not going to get stuck in the same poo as with prettyvacant (ie archers vs swords and horseman). The scout has set of the the east, but will probably circle around moscow to find a good second city site.

[digger760]

Game update, played 45 turns. Have meet Persia, Japan, Iroqois(Mel), China and Mongols in that order. I traded between Persia and Japan, Usually by buying from Japan and selling to Persia, however i made one deal with Japan that crippled me slightly which involved 6 gpt and 50 gold for something like alphabet ( i can't remember exactly ).

My scout meet Mels scout south of Perisa sometime between turn 30 and turn 40 he had IW, Wheel and 1 other tech i did'nt have (horse riding i think). I did'nt have any techs to trade with him.

A few turns later i meet China, they offered me iron working for mystacism. Yes please I said.

A mongol scout appeared just south of Moscow, and dos'nt seem to be moving now[confused].

Moscow is my worker factory at the moment. St Petersburg is going to produce spears...maybe warriors, for later upgrades to vet swords. Kiev, maybe i should have put it right next to the wheat and made a second settler factory, but once i get the templt built (russia is religous so temples are half cost) i will get the wheat and the cow. Hopefully there will be still room to settle. There looks to be lots of room to the west of Moscow and iron is also close by too.

Here is the map at turn43



http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/digger760/20035792738_turn43.jpg
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[anarres]

digger - you should rush the temple when you grow to size 2! It's the classic, whip now, eat later scenario! :)

[prettyvacant]

and get a worker out of Kiev either before or after that? (however you might have more workers around than I can see). My rule of thumb (for what its worth ) is to have at least one worker per town.

and how come only your score is in the screen print? im sure in my pbems it shows them all

[digger760]

quote:Originally posted by prettyvacant

and get a worker out of Kiev either before or after that? (however you might have more workers around than I can see). My rule of thumb (for what its worth ) is to have at least one worker per town.

and how come only your score is in the screen print? im sure in my pbems it shows them all


I click the triangle to the right of the score board to "minimise it" otherwise it is clutter on the screen. Mel is ahead, he mentioned via msn that he got free city and a settler from goodie huts. I am hoping that my settler factories will out build what ever he can.

I only have one worker, Moscow has enough developed squares to pump out settlers. After i have finished mining both cows at st-petersburg i will go and irrigate the wheat for kiev...maybe by then i might have another worker which will start hooking up cities or resources. I would rather be building settlers and defenders at this stage, maybe my 5th city will build a worker factory.

I prefer to focus cties on certain things.

Moscow - settlers
st petersburg - vet defenders
Kiev - settlers
Minsk - maybe a worker

Minsk by the way has been settled directly east of the furs to the north west of moscow. Why did'nt a settle for a port? cos it is next to the arctic circle and any ship built there would be a long way from action + it dos'nt leave a gap with moscow

[anarres]

You *must* rush the temple at Kiev when it reaches size 2! No workers first!

5 turns later you will get use of the Cow and Wheat, it's a 100% no-brainer!!!

God, I go on a bit, but knowing when to rush your 30 shield temple at size 2 is very important... ;)

[Cruise]

Those are 40 shields, you cant rush that with 1 pop. Or is this accelerated production?

[anarres]

Temples are 30 shields if you are religous.

After 10 turns of growth with the minimum 1 shield you have a size 2 city with exactly 20 shields left. You can pop rush the temple and get a size 1 city again with the temple.

You will quickly regain the lost pop when you are using the bonus tiles the temple helps you reach. This is also very useful for outlying cities when you are religous.

[digger760]

opps Kiev popped to 2, can't rush temple ???? hangon Russia is Scientifc/Expansionist...bugger. Oh well off goes the worker from St Petersburg to Kiev to mine a BG and help that temple along.

Meanwhile, St Petersburg is pumping out vet warriors. I never tried this before, but the AI seems to judge you on quantity not quality so lots of crappy warriors might keep the grumpy japanese of my back. Plus i can upgrade to lots of vet swords when i hook up some iron.

Got Horseback riding off china for 9 gold and alphabet, another nice trade. China is the largest civ and they are a long way from me so it will be good to keep on good terms with them.

Japan has Mathematics and another tech that i can't afford, they also have 300 gold, thanks to a stupid gpt trade i made with them. All the other civs are broke, so i can't sell anything.

[anarres]

digger, are you sure Kiev has only 20 shields left for the temple? There is no reason you can't poprush. [hmm]

Whilst it used to be the case that power was determined on quantity and not quality, in Civ3 1.29f and all versions of PTW they do now take quality in to account as well.

[digger760]

I will pop rush it when i can, there is still more than 20 shields to go

EDIT did you miss the bit where i realised russia is not religous -> temple = 60 sheilds [sad].

[anarres]

[lol]

When you get to size 3 you should have 20 shields. Switch to something that costs 40, rush that for 1 pop, then switch to temple, rush that for another pop.

There is a restriction on rushing more than 1/2 your total pop, so you cna't rush in one go.

[digger760]

Mel has always been ahead on techs or at least I hav’nt been able to offer him any, I bought writing off the mongols for 40 gold and 4 gpt. Swaped writing with Persia for a tech a can’t remember

1250BC China, Japan and Mongols all have philosophy, map-making and mathematics. Persia only has maths and no money. So I gave mongols my map for philosophy. I swap philosophy + 40 gold to persia for mathematics.

I think Mel has map-making, at-least, that is what the tech calculator seems to indicate. It seems to be out by 1 turn. So by my estimates I am behind Mel by map-making only. But my score has over taken him so I must be expanding faster.

I also discovered Mel's land this turn. Way down south.

1100BC Persia has mapmaking. Even though I don’t I can trade maps with those that do so Sell World Map to:

Persia, Japan, China and Mongols for territory map +30 gold (50 from china) each

This gives me enough money to establish an embassy with the iro’s (Mel) for 105 gold, don’t know weather it was worth it cos it gave me a fright.

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/digger760/2003620145127_salamanca.jpg
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http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/digger760/2003620145236_1100bc.jpg
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[digger760]

Turn 97 Was researching Monarchy, it has suddenly drop from 15 turns to 2, Seems as if China, Japan, Mongols, Persia all got it between turns. I bought it of china for WM and 14 gold. Then sold monarchy to Mongols for code of laws, WM and small amount of gold. I gave monarchy to the romans for there WM., which was useless. Offered Monarchy to Mel…first time I’ve been able to offer him something in the game to date, Mel offered construction, I said I would accept a straight swap (I estimated they were worth about the same). That was better than I expected.

Turn 98, Japan is finally poor so is everybody else except, china, who has 1158gold.

I got a bit slack between from here until 250BC (turn 116)

So the rest is a from recall and looking at old savs

*NEWS FLASH*NEWS FLASH***WAR IN SOUTHERN RUSSIA**

around 500BC I tell the Japanese to get off my land and they declare war. I also tell Mel to move his scout off my land. I see I mounted warrior in Japanese territory to the south of Odessa.

**MEL JOINS THE JAPANESE IN THE WAR AGAINST RUSSIA**

Here is the situation on 430BC
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/digger760/200371894850_Mel_SOD.jpg
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i think there were 11 mounted warriors in that stack mostly vets maybe 1 or 2 regulars and 1 or 2 elites

430BC Mel kills vet warrior outside Odessa with mounted warrior, he uses a scout to pillage my horse tile near Tblisi. Counter attack mounted warrior with sword forcing him to retreat, retreat horse/catapult combo from Izumo, thinking if i take it it will be too much to hold and defend against Mel (i end up loosing the horseman near Odessa, although i think i took an elite mounter warrior first). Use spearman in Sevestopol to capture Scout.

410BC Mel take Odessa with his SOD, I lost 2 warriors and a spear. I am quickly re-enforcing Kiev to the north east with swords, spears and warriors.

390 BC Mel consolidates, by moving all his units into Odessa to heal. Japanese warriors are chasing my catapult towards Smolensk and threatening workers in that region. I protect the worker with a spear, I have another spear that was headed to Izomo that was to garrison it, but now is headed to intercept catapult and provide protection.

370BC Mel moved up 1 mounted warrior army and two other mounted warriors. I have 2 swords and a spear defending. Somehow 1 vet swords reduces the full strength army to 3 red bars before dying. The other swords beats of another MW ( I can't remember if it retreated or I killed it). I re-enforce Kiev with 2 vet Warriors, so now I have a sword, spear and 2 warriors defending

350BC Mel says he has lost in MW army...mwuhahahaha..i wonder if he realised he was attacking over a river and up hill. I seem to have lost a spear in Kiev during the turn. Mel has 3 fresh MW sitting on the hill near Odessa, ready to attack next turn. I re-enforce Kiev with 2 vet swords and a vet spear, leaving Sevastopol unguarded. Kiev now has 2 vet swords (1 red lined), 2 vet warriors full strength and a vet spear.

330BC Mel attacks again. I lost a vet warrior, My two vet swords are now only 3 bars. Mel lost 2 MW and another vet MW is on yellow. I think I killed the
wounded MW with my swords ( I can't remember exactly). Meanwhile my catapult has hooked up with a spearman guard and is moving around towards
Moscow to eventually re-enforce Kiev. I move a vet warrior from Kiev to Sevastopol.

Some were in these turns I discovered literature and sold it to the persians for something like 150-200 gold. I also discovered the germans on another large
island to the north west and took all there money in exchange for some backward techs. I sold contact to China for MA against Mel. Meanwhile Mel had MA's all the other civs except Germany against me.

310BC-330BC was rounds of consolidation. Mel moved up 5 MW for the attack on Kiev. I re-enforced and at the end of the turn had 2 full strength vet
swords, 1 3bar vet sword, 1 yellow vet sword, 1 full strength vet spear, 1 yellow vet spear and a full strength vet horse and a catapult. I construct a barracks at Kiev.


270BC Mel offered peace, but I said forget it, only if he gives back odessa (Mel didn’t sound that interested in Peace anyway). All 5 MW dissappeared??? no damage to my units???. I re-enforce Kiev with another vet sword and vet horse.

250 BC no sight of MW, all units have healed in Kiev.

AND SO A GREAT COUNTER ATTACK, OPERATION URANUS*, BEGINS

I typical snow-storms and blizzards of the russian hinterland, I move 5 vet swords, 2 vet horseman, 2 vet spear and a catapult over the river towards odessa. All units are at all full strength.


Now that i have looked over the recent battles i wonder what happened to the 5 MW at Kiev in 330BC. Did they attack? Mel could quite well have feigned an attack and retreated them to Odessa, in which case my army is now out in the open and at the mercy of the mounted warrior and the dreaded RNG.

And all this time no sign of Mels allies.

Stay tuned for the results over the next week or so.

digger760

*fotenote: Operation Uranus was start of the great counter offensive launched by the Russians at Stalingrad on the 19th of November 1942, which end up surrounding the German 6th Army.