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ERIKK
23-04-2004, 09:13
Logging Diplo Game #2:

Spring01 negotiations:
==================

Austria\Stapel: Proposed Key Lepanto, Stapel accepted, Stapel agreed on me getting 5 centers
in winter01, for defensive purposes against France/Germany I told him. We have detailed
plans laid out till FA02. Turkey will fall if he opens anti-Russian... Stapel is making
sure he will and the point is to have Turkey still doing it in FA02 as my moves will be
anti-Austrian and Tunis (not standard Lepanto). My FA02 move to Ser will wake them up.

Stapel trusts me even though my SP01 moves are called 'Stab Lepanto' and 'Austrian Attack'!!!
But Stapel is a sly motherfucker, he will stab me for sure. I hope not until we destroyed
Turkey... I am sure he thinks that he can get rid of me when the time has come. By that time
I will put my trust in Col (I think).

Turkey\Schip: Schip says I am his worst enemy. He also says he is being manipulated by Col and
Stapel (which I know is true). Stapel is pushing him against Russia. And Russia probably told
him not to trust Stapel at all. I told him not to fear me as long as he does not fill the Med
with boats. I told him I wanted to watch events first and then decide what to do. We agreed to
talk again after the SP01 moves. (I guess to see if we need to be friends or not.)

Schip is a rookie but not stupid. I think Stapel thought he had him in his pocket but then
Col showed up! Anyway Stapel really put much effort in manipulating Schip and he is absolutely
sure Schip will do what he told him. Which is good for me.

Germany\Tunerica: Tunerica wants a triple alliance. Fine by me but we must keep the Key a secret
till spring02. I proposed a DMZ for Tyr which he sort of agreed upon. Stapel agreed on the
Triple alliance. Tunerica will probably be mad at me when he sees my opening moves. I don't
know what he will do in SP01. If he moves to Tyr then I need to rethink my moves but with
Stapel on my side nothing can wrong. Tunerica did complain about France not letting him
have Belgium...

Not sure about Tunerica, when I listen carefully to sablewyvern, Tunerica seems not a rookie.

England\Babu: The relation seems very positive. I proposed him to put up a fight with Russia.
He responded to think about it but needed to check France and Germany first. Haven't spoken to him
since.

Babu has played diplo before, he seems very friendly. For the rest I don't know anything about
him.

France\Sablewyvern: I told him I would wait before chosing what to do. He proposed a non
agression pact. After some discussion we agreed on this:
1) GOL, PIE, NAF neutral
2) TYN, TUN Italian, WES French
3) Only move troops in when they have to retreat and other options provide a very high chance of
failing
4) Non agression lasts till SP04, only then troops can move in

He seems to be a veteran diplo player and knows his things. Sablewyvern about Tunerica: I know he's
claiming holland and belgium by divine right. I trust him, we'll see if he is worthy. Anyway, this
proposal leads to a massive attack on England or Germany by France...

Russia\Col: I pointed on an alliance against Austria/Stapel (which has a good reputation of being
very powerfull) but he told me to wait and see first. He advised me to make the standard moves. I did
not really offered to be his puppet, that would be too obvious. Anyway, he wanted to wait and see
first. I told him I would do the standard moves and go for Tunis. I hope he will be impressed by my
move to Trieste and convice him to turn on Turkey!

Col: Watch Turkey like a hawk, kick Austria.
Col: I'm not going directly for Turkey - but I will open to Black Sea.

But he told Stapel he is headed for total annihilation of Turkey!



Well, after the spring moves we will see if France, Austria and Turkey have lived up to their promises...

ERIKK
23-04-2004, 11:19
About the spring 01 results:

Here are some sablewyvern lies about his anti-italian (IMO) moves...

erik says:
do you plan a fleet in GoL?
erik says:
your moves are a prelude for a pickup from spain...
sablewyvern says:
no
sablewyvern says:
the armies will probably move out by land
erik says:
damn waste of moves
sablewyvern says:
yeah
erik says:
lucky the germs are friends!
sablewyvern says:
if he'd gone A Mun-Bur, I was in trouble
erik says:
yeah
erik says:
but you knew he wouldn't
sablewyvern says:
actually, no, I didn't
sablewyvern says:
one reason I was so unhappy with my orders

Yeah right!

Skyfish
23-04-2004, 17:16
Don't like it when col says " lets wait and see" [evil]
Watch out...

ERIKK
26-04-2004, 08:56
People, I need your opinion:

Right now, I can stab Stapel in an extreme brutal fashion. I can take Bud and Tri,
(two of his home centers) and deny him Greece. That would leave him with Vie and
Rum. He would still have 3 units and has to disband one in winter 1901. I know he
is going for A Gal and F Gre and supports me into Ser with A Rum. (He promised Schip
to support him into Ser with the same A Rum by the way.)

I know Schip/Turkey is going for Russia again (he is still obeying Stapel). He only is
in doubt about his A Bul. He asked me if I would go to Greece which made me thinking: he
can deny me and Stapel Gre with a bounce: he will be bounced in a supply center while
Stapel and me don't. He has a lot to win but must stab his friend Stapel (who is stabbing
him atm and that will shown in the fall moves when the Key Lepanto would be clear).

If Schip denies us Greece and I move my fleet to Tun and I stab Stapel: then I get
6 centers, turkey 4 and Austria... That is very tempting! I would then have to ally
Russia to finsh off Stapel and then turn on Turkey!

Stapel will probably start a Jihad against me though...

Goals:
- get Col to an alliance (against Stapel and after that against Schip)
- get Schip to take Greece (he also still thinks I am at war with Stapel)

What do you think?

Should I go for the risky stab with all the consequences or should I continue the
Key Lepanto. I am not sure about my strategic postion after the death of Turkey in a
Key Lepanto. I think Austria will get very strong and am not sure our current
friendship is a longtime one... Remember: Col and Stapel are sly motherfuckers, they
can plan a split on their own!

Skyfish
26-04-2004, 11:01
Test the waters with col : if he sees you can hurt Stapel big time, he will go for it
because he fears Stapel more than you [evil]

ERIKK
30-04-2004, 10:16
FALL 1901 moves:

Info present at the moment:
- Stapel will work with me against Turkey.
- Turkey will attack Russia again.
- Russia trusts none and says he wont gamble on protecting BLA and
SEV.
- Germany and me decide on a new DMZ in TYR.
- France, England: no contact.
- Russia and Turkey are enemies.
- Austria and Turkey are good friends.
- France, England, Germany: I dunno.
- Turkey and Russia think Italy stabbed Austira in sp01.


Deal with Stapel:

I do:

Italy A TRI - SER
Italy A VEN - APU
Italy F ION - AEG

Stapel does:

Austria A VIE - GAL
Austria A RUM S ITALIAN A TRI - SER
Austria F ALB - ION

Italy build F NAP
Austria build A BUD

This is a set up for an full scale attack on Turkey. But I calculated
it and will be long and difficult fight and will also leave my north
wide open. Eventually Stapel can stab me quite easy and team up with
his friend Schip. Not to mention his possiblities with Col.

So, I do:

Italy A TRI - BUD
Italy A VEN - TRI
Italy F ION - TUN

Which will leave Stapel with 2 centers and me with 6!

Of course THIS is a major stab but I looked it up and the ruling
opinion is that IF Russia and Turkey are not teaming up (which they
are not but still might be of course [cry] ) taking this opportunity
is preferred.


Even so, Stapel is stabbing Turkey at the same moment... Turkey wont
be his friend anymore.

IF-1
Well, if Turkey attacks Russia again in the fall I must be able to
ally with Col in the second best alliance there is: Italy - Russia,
and mob up Austria and Turkey.

IF-2
If Russia and Turkey are indeed friends and their spring moves were a
decoy then Stapel and me are indeed fucked. I might be able to pull
Russia on my side. But in any case he has the best cards!

IF-3
Stapel stabs me too. That would be a suprise! Not sure about the
outcome, but 1902 will be a whole new game I guess! Stapel and Schip
seem to be very good friends but I have some doubts on the Schip
moves against Col...

A nice article on stabbing in a diplomacy game:
http://www.diplomacy-archive.com/resources/strategy/articles/to-stab-or-not.htm

Stapel will hate my guts but I am sure he can respect a good stab! He
must be mobbed up ASAP because I am afriad his units will become
Turkish puppets!

ERIKK
21-05-2004, 22:54
Review: fall 1902, the lying season!

First of all, take this thread with you as you read along: http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/topic.asp?whichpage=3&TOPIC_ID=1685#26199

From what I know:
England (Barbu) told France he would leave Belgium to London,
instead he makes 'destined to bounce move' to Denmark. He lied. But
it costs him his army.
Tunerica (Germany) would do a mutual support with Col (Denmark -
Sweden). He made a deliberate misorder. He lied.
Col (Russia) agreed to do a mutual support with Tunerica (Denmark -
Sweden). He made a deliberate misorder. He lied. But Tunerica lied too
and he loses Sweden. I guess they hate each other.
Col (Russia) agreed to support my Tyrol army to Vienna. He makes
a misorder, deliberate of course. He lied.
Schip (Turkey) agreed to support my Trieste army into Serbia. He
does something else. He lied right in my face. But I kind of knew it
would happen. So my fleet is in his face now... Anyway, he got Greece
which sucks of course. My backup Budapast saved the day in Serbia.
Col lied to Sable (France) to get him to attack England to save
his nothern front (Sweden, Sint Peterburg) but Sable wanted to wait.
He was wise as Col fucked Tunerica and England did not move to
Barentz. As Barbu did not go to London Col was kind of right but Col
told me the only real reason was to set them up against each other.
If Col realy wanted to save the north he and Tunerica should have
supported each other.


Well, I now know that I have only one friend for now, that is the
only person apart from me that did not lie: Sable (France). It sucks
that Col does not want to be friends in a Russo - Italian allaince.