View Full Version : heihojin's game #9 - OPEN TOPIC
Socrates
20-04-2004, 09:55
NOT FOR EVERYBODY INVOLVED IN THIS GAME until the game is over or until I'm dead. Some players have already abandonned and been replaced, so if you happen to read this, please don't become a future replacement !
Starting players : heihojin, prettyvacant, OPD, WildFire, Ben E Gas, Octavian X, Nightfa11.
Replacements (so far !) : gstocki (for Octavian X), DogBoy (for Ben E Gas), "unknown" (for OPD).
WildFire's tribe was destroyed. :(
8-p PBEM - [u]heihojin's game #9 :</u>
version : PTW 1.27f
world size : Standard
land mass : Continents
water coverage : 70%
climate : Temperate
temperature : Normal
age : 4 Billion
barbarians : Roaming
player 2 - kryszcztov : China
human rivals : 7 (Rome, Carthage, Ottomans, Egypt, America, Persia, Scandinavia)
available victories : all
difficulty : Regent
culturally linked start locations : No
preserve random seed : Yes
allow cultural conversions : Yes
map : random
This game started in July 2003.
Socrates
20-04-2004, 10:03
STARTING POSITION
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/kryszcztov/200442095944_PBEM_heihojin_9-01 4000BC StartingPosition.JPG
53.56KB
The starting position isn't weak, but isn't great either. The settler isn't by the coast, and there is only one food bonus in sight. Furthermore, no river seems to run in the neighbourhood ; the sea seems to surround this starting position, so the capital won't be well placed after a while. I suppose I must be happy with my few bonus grasslands. :)
Socrates
20-04-2004, 10:29
LOOKING FOR GOOD PLACES TO LIVE
Of course I didn't settle in 4000BC, many sea tiles would be lost to a future harbour after a while, and I'm not a fan of abandonning cities. I moved the worker south-west, and the settler south-east, so as to have the most land tiles available in the long run, without wasting a bonus grassland or a food bonus. Furs happened to lie next to the settler then. In 3950BC Beijing is founded on the forest tile, by the sea. I set science on Pottery at maximum rate.
I quickly saw some differences with the solo game : workers complete their tasks faster on a local scale ! Oh well... Here are the tasks the worker did in those first turns :
- mine and road the "middle" bonus grassland ;
- chop the game forest (10 shields for a secret project :D ), mine and road it (bringing irrigation from the east would be counter-productive) ;
- mine and road the "north" bonus grassland ;
- chop the furs forest (secret project again) which lies south-east of the city, mine and road it.
I built my 1st warrior on turn 5 (3750BC), a 2nd one on turn 9 (3550BC). This is when I opened my 1st hut, and it gave me barbs (on Regent !!). [blush2] On turn 11 (3450BC) Beijing got its 2nd citizen, and borders expanded. This was when the game forest was cleared, and the shields were added to... a barracks !! (I was still ready to swap project)
On turn 12 (3400BC) Beijing built its barracks, and I was now ready to pump out a settler, so as to quickly get a better site. But this is where my initial plan was forced to be changed : I met WildFire of the Egyptians on this turn, thanks to a wandering warrior of him meeting a wandering warrior of mine.
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/kryszcztov/2004420102441_PBEM_heihojin_9-02 3400BC EgyptianWarrior.JPG
69.18KB
Socrates
20-04-2004, 11:11
CONTACT WITH EGYPT
WildFire lacked Warrior Code, so I put it on the table. His capital was size 1. I quickly understood why : he had just built (whipped) a temple in his capital !! [eek] And he renamed it "You all suck", so that everyone could see it in F11 ! [lol]
Here is the mail I sent him after my turn :
"Hello Queen Wildfire of the Egyptians ! This is Chairman kryszcztov of the Chinese ! It appears we have now made contact, since I saw one of your warrior near one of mine. I think you could have made contact with me during your last turn (3450BC), just after moving your warrior, but you don't seem to have offered anything through the diplomacy screen... Maybe I'm wrong about how it actually works ; this is my 1st PBEM, and the 1st time I make a contact, really.
So I went to the diplomacy screen, and put Warrior Code (one of my starting tech, of course) on the table, and clicked "send" (closing the screen). I hope it will pop up on your next turn (3400BC). Otherwise consider this as part of a possible deal. I'd like to give you this tech for one of yours. What do you have actually ? You can see I lack Ceremonial Burial (one of your starting tech) ; so I could give you Warrior Code for Ceremonial Burial + some gold (like 10, if unchanged), since my tech is more expensive than yours (50% worth more). Or if you have another tech... What do you think ?
I also hope we can set up good relationships in this game (and in "RL" too !). The association of our 2 industrious civs could rock in the beginning of the game : with land improvements done faster, we can earn more gold (research), thus taking the tech lead if we agree on researching in different paths and exchange each other's techs then. Good idea ?
Also, have you heard of any other civ yet ? Are you coming from the south ? Since I am north of you, I could get contact with whoever sit in the north, and you could do as well in the south, so as we could exchange contacts together and become commercial centers.
Finally, I hope we can set a peace deal for a looong time to come. As a sign of good will, let me warn you of 2 Sakae barbs roaming near your warrior !
Answer me through e-mail as soon as possible if you want !
kryszcztov of the mighty Chinese"
Here is the answer I got :
"First of all, just call me King ;)
I could've made contact with you, yes, but the Egyptian people were wary and did not wish to talk diplomacy. We wish to remain a bit secluded and would MUCH appreciate if teh Chinese warrior not go south anymore, or at least more than 2 tiles. If he does, war is imminent.
I do not wish to trade.
Sup.
WF"
WTF ? Definitely not the answer I hoped for. [eek] Welcome to PBEM ! I had to show I was "strong", so I quickly sent this :
"King Wildfire, I'm a bit disappointed by your answer, so short and brutal compared to my introducing. If you wish to stay alone, why do you scout with your warrior ? What's there 2 tiles south of my warrior (now gone) ? I can't see any Egyptian borders, and thus can't restrict my moves to before this point. My warriors can roam through all open land, and I treat this kind of threat as a provocation.
But because kryszcztov is in a good mood, and curious to know more about the world, He won't send his warrior to where yours currently stands. My warrior just went away to the north... Does this satisfy you enough ? May this friendly move open negociations ? Thought Egyptians were more of a traders' country, I might have misread my history book !
Also have in mind I won't let your warriors approach my cities without active defense. Keep in mind I do know the secret of archers, and so I would highly suggest you didn't make any suspicious move. I don't fear your religious power yet, for a comparison. ;)
Hope to see better news next time. Me off to bed. Hope I won't dream of any kind of agressive move from you !!
His Majesty kryszcztov of the mighty Chinese"
To which he answered :
"The move is satisfactory for now. Maybe the history books are lying, as the truth is always hidden. The Egyptian people would like to trade but we do not find it in our best interest as of know. As for short letters? Sometimes they can be most important of all.
WildFire of the Egyptians.
Sup.
WF"
Next turn (3350BC) I finally saw that WildFire changed his mind, as he was offering me Ceremonial Burial for my Warrior Code. [smokin] Having heard of his behaviour in some other games, I really saw this as the most stupid thing to do, and so I declined the "offer", sending him this :
"Hello King Wildfire of the Egyptians !
I see you offered me Ceremonial Burial for my Warrior Code. Though I see this as a good will to trade peacefully, I had to decline the offer. I wish our 2 people could live in harmony, but don't try to fool me : my tech has 50% more value than yours, and BTW, I won't let you build archers at this low price ! My offer (Warrior Code) still holds, but if you dare bring all your gold for it, I could accept such a deal. I know an Egyptian temple is often expensive to upkeep, ;) but if you want to invest in a strong military, you'll have to offer something worth it. What are you currently researching (if you are) ? Maybe another (future) tech from you could drive more interest from me...
Also, keep in mind that we, the Chinese people, don't suck at all, even though this "message" may not have been adressed to us only. ;) Act wisely and the Chinese will be your eternal friends.
BTW, what did you mean by "As for short letters? Sometimes they can be most important of all." ?? Do you think I write too much in my e-mails ? If so, I'll write less in the future.
Chairman kryszcztov of the Chinese"
You can see I tried to impress him by telling him I knew what he was doing (building the temple), and what he was up to (getting archers without paying for it). I felt the need to mark my words. He answered this :
"I meant that, with short letters sometimes come very important messages, even if they are hidden within.
Trade is off, and I do not with to trade the use of Temples for Archers. Our king has advised us to inform you that he is not willing to bankrupt his small nation. He wishes to grow peacefully, yes, but no poor.
What am I researching? I wouldn't tell you for all your gold.
Sup.
WF"
The guy isn't a stable partner... [rolleyes] On turn 14 (3300BC) I discovered Pottery, which I put on the table, and start researching the Wheel at maximum rate, feeling it may be helpful with such a neighbour (and of course I want to know where the horses are). Another email :
"Greetings, King Wildfire of the Egyptians !
I'll try to be shorter ! ;)
First, let me tell you that the glorious Chinese have mastered a very helpful technology : Pottery. With it, you can prepare for great journeys by storing food easily. I put that on the trading table. Why am I telling you this by e-mail ? Because I wish you gave me Ceremonial Burial, now ; these 2 techs have the same value (even though I had to research mine), therefore we could agree on such a trade without bringing money along. I hope you will accept this offer.
Second, I see your warrior hasn't turned back, though mine has. I could bear this if you tell me it is for pure exploration purpose, which I think is good. I didn't even go 2 tiles south (your limit), and I won't explore the map beyond that point, as you requested. Now I'm warning you : I won't bear the presence of Egyptian warriors more than 3 tiles north of your current position (the warrior next to mine). If you go beyond, war could be declared, but it's definitely not my wish, all the more in the beginning of the game. I hope you will take this as a friendly warning. The Chinese have always showed up friendly to the Egyptians. Instead if we could join our efforts to fight the Sakae and Suren barbarians in the area, it would be great.
If you accept the trade and don't go too far to the north, the Chinese will assure you of their everlasting frienship and cooperation.
kryszcztov, leader of the Chinese"
To which he answered :
"Hello
First off, the Persian people don't take well to blackmail as this letter was filled up the the brim with it! If I dont go to far north? I am at the bottom and will have nowhere else to expand! I have the go north! If I do not, I fear that I will seem to puny ahnd the chinese will run right over me. Potter is not wanted or needed, and ceremonial burial is not up to offer. If you wish to follow through on your blackmail and delcare war if we do not turn bac, go right ahead. Just to let you know, we have soon to acquire our Immortal killers and you SHALL feel their might if you interfere
You just recieved an email from the soon to be king of the world."
Well of course I had to laugh because :
"I think I should tell in each of my e-mail which game it is. As for me, I'm only in 1 PBEM game : heihojin #9. And as far as I know, you are the Egyptians in this game ! I think you shouldn't play so often as the Persians, because it only confuses you ! lol
But the rest of the answer I understand. Don't take my warnings as weak ones. You told me not to go to the south, I didn't. I told you not to go to the north, will you ? Guess who would be the bad guy ?
kryszcztov of the Chinese in heihojin #9"
The answer :
"King WildFire apologizes for the mistake and meant to say the 2.1.2 War Chartiots will kick your ass. Of course, I wish to live in harmony with our chinese brethren."
What am I supposed to understand ? Is the guy trustful ? What is he up to ? I was starting to think about changing my whole plan. A little while after that, on turn 16 (3200BC), WildFire eventually accepted a deal : he gave me Ceremonial Burial + 3 gold for Pottery. I don't why he gave me a few coins, but oh well, at least he has a fantastic tech now. On turn 17 (3150BC) I opened a 2nd hut, and barbs again, on Regent !! [mad]
That was a time when I was occasionally going to the CFC chat, and once WildFire and I had a little chat :
"Start of #ally buffer: Fri Oct 31 23:08:34 2003* Now talking in #ally
<WildFire> there we go :p
* WildFire changes topic to 'Are we going to be allies?'
<kryszcztov> k
<kryszcztov> hehe
<WildFire> Are we?
<kryszcztov> nobody would hear of that anyway
<kryszcztov> yes we are
<WildFire> how long?
<kryszcztov> so what are we supposed to do?
<kryszcztov> suggest....
<WildFire> until 100 AD
<kryszcztov> i find those date-deals weird
<kryszcztov> 100AD means nothing to me
<WildFire> we are allies until then
<kryszcztov> it's just a date, you see
<WildFire> at the date of 100AD we are not allies
<kryszcztov> it would mean more if it were through all the 1st
era eg.
<kryszcztov> and no more ally would mean war???
<WildFire> not really
<WildFire> it could mean mutual respect for the chance for war
<WildFire> of course
<WildFire> doing the course of teh game we could lengthen the
100AD
* Bootstoots has joined #ally
<Bootstoots> hehe
<kryszcztov> grrrrrrrr
<Bootstoots> you guys should use PCMW ;)
<kryszcztov> i don't know much of those things
* Bootstoots was kicked by WildFire (go away :p)
<kryszcztov> i'm too old
<kryszcztov> hehe
<kryszcztov> no, i'm too dumb to know
<WildFire> lol
<WildFire> this works fine
<WildFire> he wont come back
<kryszcztov> yes
<kryszcztov> so?
<kryszcztov> why 100aD?
<kryszcztov> why not forever?
<WildFire> because I dont want it to last that long
<WildFire> I might or u might regret it
<kryszcztov> so you want to take my cities?
<WildFire> not right now
<kryszcztov> off-topic : how do you create such a room?
<WildFire> @op kryszcztov
<WildFire> !op kryszcztov
<WildFire> um
<WildFire> u just type /join #ally
<WildFire> and see if its registerd
<kryszcztov> m'kay
<kryszcztov> or : #myroom
<kryszcztov> hey i got mine, i'm an op
* WildFire has left #ally
* WildFire has joined #ally
<WildFire> @op WildFire
<WildFire> so AS OF RIGHT NOW
<kryszcztov> i exited myroom, what happens to the other people
inside?
<WildFire> do we have an alliance till 100AD?
<WildFire> they stay
<WildFire> but Bob was a bot
<kryszcztov> hehe
<kryszcztov> a robot?
<kryszcztov> ok, we promise to stay at peace until 100AD (crazy
date)
<kryszcztov> we'll both share contacts
<WildFire> ok
<kryszcztov> we'll both share same number of techs
<WildFire> agreed
<WildFire> playin now
<kryszcztov> (started with pottery for burial)
<kryszcztov> we agree on not going to our mutual territories
<WildFire> well duh
<WildFire> mutual territories?
<kryszcztov> i don't go south, you don't go north
<kryszcztov> since we are friends, we don't need it anyway
<WildFire> but we're allies?
<kryszcztov> yes
<kryszcztov> that's just in case of safety
<kryszcztov> i'd rather be sure you don't betray me ;)
<kryszcztov> and that would be a sign that we ARE allies
<WildFire> i wont
<WildFire> ok
<kryszcztov> my warrior sees yours
<kryszcztov> so i'll know of your move ;)
<WildFire> dont go south farther than the southernest gem
<kryszcztov> which one is it? ;)
<kryszcztov> (how many are there?)
<WildFire> 4
<kryszcztov> k
<WildFire> we sharing techs?
<kryszcztov> i know you have a warrior north of the one I
currently see
<kryszcztov> please recall him
<WildFire> i am going south now
<WildFire> with both
<kryszcztov> thanks, new ally
<WildFire> :)
<kryszcztov> sharing techs what?
<kryszcztov> u have another tech to share?
<WildFire> on to BenE
<WildFire> no, but gettin the wheel in 3
<kryszcztov> um
<kryszcztov> what for? ;)
<WildFire> lol
<kryszcztov> will you share the wheel with me ?
<WildFire> what tech are u giving me in return?
<kryszcztov> well, i have warrior code, since i'm militaristic
<WildFire> works
<kryszcztov> so?
<kryszcztov> the wheel for warrior code when you get it?
<WildFire> <WildFire> works
<kryszcztov> k
<kryszcztov> in 3 turns
<kryszcztov> have you heard of anyone yet, except me?
<WildFire> nope
<kryszcztov> what is there in the south?
<kryszcztov> is it the end of the landmass?
<WildFire> what is there in the north ;)?
<WildFire> yup
<WildFire> tundra
<kryszcztov> well i don't know, since i'm in the middle !!!
<WildFire> o
<WildFire> lol
<kryszcztov> true
<kryszcztov> so you whipped a temple?
<WildFire> mayyyyyyyyyyyybe
<kryszcztov> i know you have
<kryszcztov> i have planted a spy in your capital
<WildFire> ;)
<kryszcztov> nice capital name BTW
<WildFire> ALLIANCE BREAKER
<WildFire> I HATE U I HATE U
<WildFire> kidding :p
<kryszcztov> it was before
<WildFire> i like my land
<kryszcztov> now i'll ask him to come back
<kryszcztov> what's your land like? ;)
<WildFire> good
<WildFire> ;)
<kryszcztov> do you have many flood plains? ;)
<WildFire> not really
<WildFire> too far south
<kryszcztov> so you have good land?
<WildFire> yup
<WildFire> i can deal with it
* kryszcztov thinks you whipped a temple just to "post" your
message in the F11 screen, so as everyone sees it
<kryszcztov> j/k (maybe not)
<kryszcztov> @op #ally
<kryszcztov> @op kryszcztov
<kryszcztov> !op kryszcztov
<kryszcztov> blah
<WildFire> lol
<WildFire> good thinkin ;)
<WildFire> I like my city name
<WildFire> I changed it to "Allied with China"
<kryszcztov> oh you did?
<kryszcztov> so you wanted everyone to know that we have met?
<WildFire> i didnt :p
<kryszcztov> you'd better
<kryszcztov> i don't want anyone to hear of our meeting and
alliance
<kryszcztov> so you'll get the wheel in 3000BC?
<WildFire> i think so yes
<kryszcztov> well in case you wonder, there's nothing
interesting in the north
<kryszcztov> except my territory ;)
<kryszcztov> so, what are you going to research next?
<kryszcztov> so that we research different techs... :)
<WildFire> um
<WildFire> IW
<kryszcztov> :rolleyes:
<WildFire> ?
<WildFire> Oh
<WildFire> BW
<kryszcztov> hehe
<kryszcztov> didn't even see it wasn't possible
<WildFire> wrong letter
<kryszcztov> :rolleyes: = um you want swordsmen
<WildFire> no, I want to see if I have knights
<kryszcztov> so you'll do BW then IW?
<WildFire> i like construction
<WildFire> probably
<kryszcztov> wold you need knights?
<kryszcztov> if no one attacks you, or if we protect from each
other...
<WildFire> true
<WildFire> but I think by 100 ad ;)
<kryszcztov> what do you want me to search first?
<WildFire> research?
<kryszcztov> yes, research?
<WildFire> um
<WildFire> alpha?
<kryszcztov> you don't want to research it yourself, eh?
<kryszcztov> mmmh, could go with alphabet...
<WildFire> it'd be the best for us
<kryszcztov> then we could research 2 techs each (literature,
code, maps, philo)
<WildFire> ok
<kryszcztov> that sounds fair
<WildFire> deal
<WildFire> what two u gonna go for?
<kryszcztov> we'll see then, it's a long time from now
<kryszcztov> long time = in RL (maybe next year!)
<WildFire> LOL ok
<kryszcztov> hey how do you save this log ? (for a reference)
<WildFire> uh
<WildFire> I think we should of started saving before
<WildFire> now u have to copy it all to word and save it there
<WildFire> grouille-toi krys!
<kryszcztov> I think we should of started saving before :
???
<WildFire> thats how IRC logs work
<kryszcztov> i don't understand what you meant, or how
<WildFire> never mind
<WildFire> I will save it
<kryszcztov> i want to learn ;)
<kryszcztov> no CTRL-A nor such thing here
<WildFire> saved
<WildFire> :)
<kryszcztov> i have mIRC and don't see how
<WildFire> i just copied it tediously
<WildFire> but its saved
<WildFire> tell CT I hate that script
<kryszcztov> i chat with her about saving the log, lol
<kryszcztov> script = ? exactly
a r k S t y l e P r o II )°)
<WildFire> darketc is a kick script
<kryszcztov> test : éù@#(]çö
* Logging #ally to 'logs\#ally1.irc-chat'
<kryszcztov> ok, WF i'm off, i saved the log as a proof of our
frienship
<kryszcztov> i g2g soon, i now close the window
End of #ally buffer Fri Oct 31 23:08:34 2003"
As you can see, I was already thinking of something else, since I was supposed to research Alphabet, at a time when I was just starting to research the Wheel, the tech he started to research first. What a great alliance !! :D
On turn 19 (3050BC) Beijing built a settler (I had to wait for size 3). A 3rd hut on turn 22 (2900BC) gave me Bronze Working ! Well, now I don't need it from WildFire... I started to think I didn't need to chat with him anymore, so as to pretend we were good allies. I was a bit afraid of WildFire's warriors, but they were just wandering near my borders, and I'm not sure he saw them. On turn 24 (2800BC) Beijing built a 3rd warrior (remember I had barracks there), and Shanghai was founded on a hill by a river, towards WildFire's supposed territory.
Socrates
20-04-2004, 11:54
OFF TO WAR !!
I now had a plan : go after WildFire with warriors ! I first thought it would be better with archers, but I then thought it would be better to rush even quicker. It would be a matter of time before he got Bronze Working...
On turn 27 (2670BC) Beijing built a 4th warrior, then a 5th one on turn 28 (2630BC), thanks to the 2nd forest chop. On turn 29 (2590BC) I eventually spotted the Egyptian borders ! On turn 30 (2550BC) Beijing built a 6th warrior, and a 4th hut gave me barbs again !! [cry]
Here is a screenshot of the action : the Egyptian capital was located without any problem, and you can see a bit of land in the north, beyond the sea.
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/kryszcztov/2004420112041_PBEM_heihojin_9-03 2550BC EgyptianBorders.JPG
113.49*KB
On turn 32 (2470BC) I discovered the Wheel ; horses weren't close to my cities. I started a 40-turn research on Iron Working. Beijing built a 7th (!) warrior, and it was now time for the capital to build a granary, since even Shanghai had rather weak tiles to work, and I couldn't count on that city to build many settlers. I was hoping 7 warriors (minus 2, in other places) would do the job. On turn 33 (2430BC) Beijing reached size 3 again, and furs were connected. On turn 34 (2390BC) Shanghai built a worker, desperately needed to improve its flood plains. WildFire founded a 2nd city (Memphis) on that turn ; he obviously hadn't built any warrior since his temple, which, according to F3 checking, meant he had built no more than 3 warriors. On turn 35 (2350BC) "You all suck"'s borders expanded again.
Without saying a word, my warriors were entering Egyptian territory. On turn 39 (2190BC) four warriors were next to the Egyptian capital, plus a 5th one not so far away. I bet I surprised him ! [coool]
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/kryszcztov/2004420113018_PBEM_heihojin_9-04 2190BC BeforeAttackingThebes.JPG
81.3*KB
I sent him this email :
"Greetings from the Chinese Emperor, my master. As an emissary of his Majesty, I would like to tell you a word of His own :
"Pharaoh WildFire, I, Emperor of the mighty Chinese, have grown bored of our vague alliance. My wise counsellors keep telling me that you're only trying to abuse our kindness so as to backstab us in the future. This feeling was getting bigger as we saw the foundation of Memphis in 2390BC ; expanding towards us isn't a wise solution, all the more with all this juicy land around this city. We only see that decision of settling there as an effort to deprive us of our part of good estate we are right to claim. Quickly stealing the precious land to the west, instead of expanding to the east, is regarded here as a provocation. No wonder what use you will make of these vital resources...
We also had made an agreement on scientific research, but you obviously aren't focusing on mastering the secret of bronze. This technology could obviously help both empires to live together in peace, as I've been told that spearmen with bronze weapons were the ideal solution to the world stability. Not researching this essential secret for trading purpose, as formerly agreed, isn't an act of good will.
Finally, the Chinese people have enough of that puny provocation you ignitiated by renaming your capital city. And building a temple early so as to culturally spread the word that all other races "suck" is extremely irritating.
Now, we have come to liberate the people of Egypt who has enough of your tyranny. Our glorious army is already spreading the word that life is possible without whips, even for erecting such a respectful building as a temple. The city of Thebes shall be liberated and renamed to its proper name ! I'll ask you to co-operate, and so leave the city of Thebes, so that no blood falls on the beautiful land of Egypt. Don't leave the place and your army will be harassed to death. Leave your capital and we, the mighty Chinese, will let you live in Memphis with your troops. As our position is far superior, I'll also ask you, Pharaoh, to precisely indicate us the way to other tribes you might have met. And as a final security action, I'll also ask you to detail us your treasury, your technological advancements and the exact position of your feeble army, as of the end of the year 2190BC, counting in tiles from the city of Thebes. As a sign of good will, I will let you your gold and your technology, hoping that, this way, you will nicely co-operate with the Chinese. We could even consider trading activities in the future, but the ball is now in your camp...
Thus has kryszcztov, the Emperor of China, spoken."
I can only remind you, as a Chinese emissary, that our relationship, be it good or bad, must be kept secret from every tribe we each haven't met yet. As a final piece of advice, I can tell you that we're all hoping you will co-operate the exact way you were asked."
I had 2-3 good points, but on the whole I was the bastard. [goodjob] I really felt like those Indo-European tribes in the 2nd millenium BC, which were trying to overrun Semitic empires installed in the Fertile Crescent. Yes, I needed good land, and badly. He answered :
"I expanded that way because we agreed the mountains were the boundary but the Chinese obviously "forgot" this fact and are deemed assholes by the Egyptians.
You just recieved an email from the soon to be king of the world."
In the IT WildFire founded a 3rd city, and put Alphabet on the table, but I wasn't going to take the tech and go away. And if I had taken it and still attacked, I wouldn't have been able to put more pressure on him. A 3rd city would be good for pressure later. And so I attacked his capital, and sent him this :
"Greetings from the Chinese Emperor, my master. As an emissary of his Majesty, I would like to tell you a word of His own :
"Pharaoh Wildfire of Eternal Egypt, I, Emperor kryszcztov of China, am now very angry at your attitude. None of what I asked you was done (leave the city of Thebes, detail your treasury and scientific achievements, give the position of your troops). Thus war has been declared, as according to plan, but I'm now more angry at you than ever. First, here is the report of what will be remembered as "the liberation of Thebes" :
Attack of "You all suck" (units fortified on grassland behind river) :
4/4 warrior loses 3 hp, 3/3 warrior dies.
4/4 warrior dies, 2/2 warrior loses 1 hp.
4/4 warrior loses 1 hp and promotes to elite, 1/2 warrior dies.
Capture "You all suck", renamed "Thebes".
The city of Thebes is now a Chinese city, and we plan to make good use of it. Now, had you answered to my questions and demands, I would have proposed peace under some conditions. But because you refuse to become a vassal of the Chinese, I am not into stopping this war soon, all the more as Chinese scouts have just reported the foundation of a 3rd Egyptian city. The only possibility of peace for next turn would be to cede us the new Egyptian city in the south, this and to detail us your treasury, scientific achievements (as well as your exact researching status), the exact position of all your units at the end of your turn (with Memphis as a reference), and the way to other tribes you might have met. And because this is the 2nd time I ask for this, and because giving us the new city is an extra that couldn't have been a consideration last turn, I'll ask you to give us all your techs. Don't cave into these demands and we'll soon carry on the war with deadly archers and some more warriors. Not becoming a vassal of China means you should prepare for an everlasting war, from now on until your total destruction.
With this being said, I urge you to cave into ALL my demands, Pharaoh, the survival of your empire is very thin. This is your last chance for co-operation, next turn will definitely see if Egypt and China can live peacefully for either some time or never.
Thus has kryszcztov, the Emperor of China, spoken."
I can only remind you, as a Chinese emissary, that our relationship, be it good or bad, must be kept secret from every tribe we each haven't met yet. As a final piece of advice, I can tell you that we're all hoping you will co-operate the exact way you were asked. Oh wait, one last piece of advice, thanks to Tyler "Li" Durden :
"Do not fuck with us !""
[lol] I liked this one. I was going to capture the capital anyway, but, now that he had refused to satisfy me once, I asked for more. I think it's pretty logical, eh ? He just answered :
"No :)
You just recieved an email from the soon to be king of the world."
Well, no problem. His signature made me laugh more and more. And so Thebes was captured on turn 40 (2150BC), and I started to heal my units for the next attack. Beijing built its granary on turn 41 (2110BC), while Shanghai was now size 2. On turn 42 (2070BC) Beijing was now size 4 (just after the granary completion), Thebes was free of resistors, and WildFire had just got Bronze Working. This meant I had to step back into action very soon. I sent him another email :
"Greetings.
To be short : the Chinese are still opened to negociations, but that would require to not attack the Chinese warrior in range. We may agree on a cease-fire, but that is in your hands. Don't do dumb moves ; spearmen won't save you, all the more with deadly archers soon coming from the north. You have the key of those archers' movement in your hands, so don't attack like a fool. Don't let your warriors out of your cities, unable to quickly get back in town for defense purpose. You may regret it. Don't move and we may agree on a cease-fire. The Chinese would like to know the secret of Alphabet. And don't forget : we're in a state of war, and we, the Chinese, are on the offense. So don't attack the warrior, I think you've understood. Let's hear what you propose for peace. Oh, Egyptians are no longer resisting in Thebes, and so have proclamed me as their leader.
kryszcztov, Emperor of the Chino-Egyptians
P.S. : In case of unlikely attack (now or in the future), you should act as a gentleman, and therefore tell me all the moves I can't see, like I did with you during the liberation of Thebes."
I had a little warrior wandering near his units (bad move from my side), and so I was afraid of him being lucky to kill it. Archers were all virtual of course, but I could build and send them in no time... The answer :
"Moves - Moved my warrior north of yours to an area that you are unable to see.
I did not attack because I do wish to live but doubt if I can trust someone who has broken their alliance with us.
You just recieved an email from the soon to be king of the world."
Obviously he was still not opened to "friendly negociations" (ie. save his ass by caving into my demands), and so I wasn't ready to stop my attack.
Socrates
20-04-2004, 12:01
Well, I've just summed up 9 months of game. [cool] Why am I doing it all now ? Because a few days ago, heihojin (admin of the game and player #1) told us that WildFire wasn't replying, and so he had to kick him out of the game (it looks like it wasn't the only game). But because he couldn't have his password, he wasn't going to find a replacement for him, and so he decided to destroy the Egyptian tribe !!! [eek] [cry] That definitely screws my plan. Period. I tried to tell heihojin to find a replacement anyway, but he wouldn't listen to me.
Well, you're welcome to comment my game so far, and welcome to comment this thing too : I'm suddenly a lot less interested in this game, and you can understand why. No more 8-player PBEM for me. I'm also wondering about "dying peacefully" in this game, since I don't want to go away, just in reaction to this event.
What do you, PBEM freaks, think ???
Pastorius
20-04-2004, 12:20
That sucks. After your careful investment in overtaking his lands. I understand your feelings.
So much time, and so little to show for it
Socrates
22-04-2004, 13:17
That definitely sucks. Just to sum it up : seeing that I had bad lands (a huge bunch of mountains and jungle), few directions in which to expand, and a worrying neighbour who had better lands, I quickly made my mind on a warrior rush, which started to be really successfull. My wish is to do my best in any game, and here I spent much time wondering about what to build next, where to move, when to attack... I'm proud of my 1st-ever warrior rush, and would like it to be completed. Now, the Egyptian cities are gone, and my army has nothing to do in the near future ; in other words, it's not going to give me back my investment. Talk about fair play !! [aargh] I could have built settlers instead, had I known WildFire would be kicked out of the game so early. heihojin, the game master, doesn't want to discuss any of my ingame issues ("it's not fair for me"), and doesn't want to let someone play WildFire's tribe because that would mean that new player would have to use the admin password for this very turn, and it seems a no-no. Since WildFire is currently unable to reply or send his password.
Of course WildFire could suddenly reappear, but the more he waits, the less chance we have to go back to before his tribe is destroyed. I myself think it's already too late. And I'm not like asking heihojin one more time, he was a little harsh in his latest reply.
Though I was happy to take part in this game so far, experimenting something I had never done, I'm now really not motivated anymore to continue, because this destruction leads to a sudden change in the game (which is stupid), and because I feel I'm screwed without those Egyptian cities to capture. I saw that some of his other 8-player PBEMs went down to no more than 4 players !!! Sure such games are hard to carry on, but if he doesn't want to find replacements for each unreachable player, then his games will sooner or later collapse. All the more as WildFire happened to play in many of his games...
What to do ? I'm thinking of playing some more turns without any passion, and let other players overrun me... or maybe commit suicide step by step... or whatever. I'd like to hear some opinions here. Thanks for reading.
passwords pf individual players can be retrieved from just the save files. Ask Mel, ana or sky they know how. Maybe they are willing to extract it for you and heihojin. Also a 3rd party not involved in the game can use teh admin password to reset WF's password. I agree with you that the current solution is a severe disadvantage for you. Personally I'd quit if a more elegant solution wasnt found. Just my 2cts
This is a very weird thing to do by heihojin, IMHO. Don't envy you. Better keep a better company in the future, I guess. This is the only way. I've also run onto some weird discussions of his games at CFC and would not try to join them in any case. There is a complete misunderstanding of the basic principles of the game on that other side.
Socrates
22-04-2004, 23:28
You say heihojin's games lack very clear rules ? I wouldn't have said that a few months ago, since he put many rules, but I agree this tribe destruction is a real nonsense. I feared it a bit over the months, as I saw that some of his games were reduced this way. I continued playing, even though it was on PTW, even though some players started to quit (but were replaced, still : such tribes won't be played as good as other tribes), even though turns took ages to pass. But I'm really disgusted : because he refused to "listen" and consider another way of doing, and because my game doesn't interest me anymore : 2 piles of rubble lie next to my units, and that pisses me off.
I will try a last thing (following ProPain's advice), and if it fails, then I won't try to continue and win this game. I just feel bad to just quit for that, but I feel like it.
Since Heihojin is the admin of the game he could have very easily changed Wildfire's password without help from anyone!
Also it looks to me like he already destroyed Egypt so what can I do now ? isnt' it too late ?
The only way he could "destroy" Egypt was by using the admin password, going into WF's turn and abandon every city.
So why does he say he does not have WF's password ?
This whole story does not make sense to me right now but am sure its because I dont understand the way its presented :D
I would very much like to help though, its such a big waste.
Socrates
23-04-2004, 11:14
Well, first off, remember this is a PBEM on PTW 1.27. ;)
Then, yes, WildFire has been unavailable, so heihojin had to load WildFire's turn with the admin password, and "play" the turn (destroy the tribe). This is what happened.
Now, was there an easy way to avoid that ? I pointed out that he could hire a neutral guy to do the job, or something like that. Would Skyfish or someone else be sure of doing the right thing ? If so, post here, and I'll ask heihojin a last time as soon as possible, because, yes, it's becoming late (we'd have to replay at least a whole turn, which doesn't affect me at all, but I don't about other players).
Who cares whether its PTW 1.27 or not ? I dont understand.
Since WF is already destroyed : what do you suggest I do ?
You already state how it could have been avoided : heihojin has the admin password he finds a replacement, resets WF's password according to the one of the replacement and you guys go on with the game.
If you think it s a problem that the Admin knows the pw of the new replacement player then I am perfectly willing to do that myself, provided heihojin gives me the admin pw of the game.
It would be ludicrous though since he knows the admin pw, it makes no difference whether he knows another players' password.
And finally, I do not understand what you mean by :
quote:Would Skyfish or someone else be sure of doing the right thing ?
Since you are not saying what needs to be done, how can anybody answer that question [groucho]
Socrates
23-04-2004, 13:29
Well, this game is changing every new patch, so I just state this is PTW 1.27 so you can know and don't ask, just in case.
What I'd like is to resume the game just before WF's destruction turn, with a replacement instead. heihojin refused because he said this was his personal way of doing in such situations. And he doesn't want one of the players to know the admin password, which I can understand. Now maybe you can get the admin password from heihojin (I can tell him you're a trustful person from CDZ, I think he'll be impressed and all), and reset WildFire's new password, according to the replacement's wish (to be contacted before). Then I suppose you'll have to play that turn, because PBEM cannot be saved in the middle of a turn (with PTW 1.27 :D ), right ? I don't care if you read my whole spoiler (if you didn't, then don't, since I heavily deal with WildFire's tribe :D ). Then send to the next player (I can tell you who), and on next turn, the replacement will be rolling.
If you agree, I contact heihojin tonight, hoping he doesn't mind if his plans aren't going his way and if we lose 10 days (what is it, compared to this game's timeframe anyway ?). If he doesn't agree, then I don't know if I'm right to claim I wanna stop or die, but I think I'll end this way.
Yes very good plan Krys.
However I will need heihojin 's admin password.
The only problem is : He has already seen WF's empire before he destroyed so he is *spoiled*, it s too late :D
Hehe...
Socrates
23-04-2004, 17:27
Well, didn't want to lose time speaking of it, but : he told me he destroyed WF's empire so quickly that he almost didn't get any spoiler info. I must trust him there... I don't care, I already came upon his land in the first turns, due to a bug (you know, when you could load a PBEM save from a solo game), but I also quickly closed it, and so what I may have seen is 100% useless for me now. And BTW, after doing the nasty job, he told me he had already met WF, so, no problem...
So, you don't want to help me, right ? :D I don't care, I'll ask him anyway. [blush]
You crazy ?
Not at all I DO want to help !
Bring on the save and the admin pw, I am at your orders Sir !
:)
Socrates
23-04-2004, 20:40
This is the email from heihojin I've just received :
"Kryszcztov,
Unfortunately we are at an impasse: the game will continue without WildFire's tribe. I am not at all inclined to reverse my decision, especially once other players have already played the turn.
You haven't received the updated player list because I have not yet acquired a replacement for OPD. If I do not acquire one in the next day or so, I will retire his tribe from the game as well.
While I understand that you would have preferred to participate in the decision whether or not to retire WildFire's tribe, that is not the way I administrate my games. It's unfortunate that you may lose interest in this game as a result; that's just a consequence I'm willing to accept. I appreciate the polite and reasonable manner in which you have presented your position, and your conscientiousness in following the game's protocol and promptly cycling turns. Should you decide to withdraw from the game, I would greatly appreciate it if you would kindly tell me your tribe's password so that I may find a replacement for you as well.
Quentin
(heihojin)"
I'm rather sad, all the more as no one has played more than 1 turn after WildFire's destruction (this OPD comes just before WildFire in the roster). I'm sad too, because I think I will quit, and this will lead to another replacement as well : I would be the 5th player to drop out !!! [eek] But I can't continue something that doesn't drive me much interest for months and years, I'm afraid. I want to be kind, but not stupid.
So I think this game is over for me. Too bad that 8-player games suffer so much in Civ. I hope my Diplo baby won't end the same way... [blush2]
What an asshole this guy !
His story does not make one gram of sense dude : he says he destroyed WF without looking for a replacement right ?
Then why does he say :
you decide to withdraw from the game, I would greatly appreciate it if you would kindly tell me your tribe's password so that I may find a replacement for you as well.
SO he does not want to replace WF but he does want to replace you ????
Then he has the admin password but still asks you to give him your pw ???
What a fucking cunt, pardon my French, I would tell this asshole to stick his fucking game up his fucking shitty arse if I were you !!!
I think this is quite fishy, it seems a very biased and one-sided way to run the game. Not impartial at all - at least here we would get a neutral person to do admin functions or rule on anything so contentious. :(
It would be important to let the other potential and current players know of these events. If I might suggest posting something in CFC PBEM forum as well. At least a link to this discussion. That is the main place for new player recruitment. IMHO, he can get kicked out of CFC or at least stopped posting there trying to attract more players. And this is not the first incidence. That is one of the reasons why many players (who value their time) are discouraged to participate in PBEM.
quote:While I understand that you would have preferred to participate in the decision whether or not to retire WildFire's tribe, that is not the way I administrate my games.This says it all for me. Dictatorial attitude, it can really piss people off regardless of his real motivations (which will now be rightly questioned).
Socrates
25-04-2004, 19:57
Well that's it : I retired from the game. :( I really didn't want to continue a game which lost its spicy taste. heihojin hasn't found a replacement for OPD as well, so it's unlikely his game will resume quickly. Though I wish him the best, I hope he'll eventually get the idea that games really suffer from people dropping out. I agree he's a little too dictatorial, and though I like dictators, [tongue] I was annoyed not being understood in the right way.
Too bad, and I really hope Civ4 will be a lot better as for games with more than 2 players (don't talk about online gaming please).
Socrates
06-05-2004, 17:10
heihojin eventually retired my tribe from the game, I think because he didn't find a replacement... [mischief] All I now have to say is : such a huge waste of time for everyone.
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