View Full Version : DDPP western island diplo (Spoiler for the others)
"What a rip off!" I know. But it's really necessary right now.
Problem is: I agreed to give Engineering to Stapel in exchange for Monotheism, which he'll have in...two turns? Soon anyway. But then suddenly Killer gave it to me, as investment. As in: I owe him one.
I accepted, but I can still pretend Stapel gave it to me and give Engineering in return. That way I don't owe Killer anything and also didn't cancel a deal with Stapel. [rolleyes]
And then there's our war/cease fire/peace. I get some gold per turn from Stapel for the next 19/18 turns, so that's guaranteed peace. (If he breaks it, hells's gonna break loose with him. http://www.straland.com/images/smilies/Satan.gif He won't be able to sign and such treaty again.) But Killer says we agreed on only 10 turns of peace. Does that mean Stapel and I can't sign a longer peace treaty together? Don't think so.
Come on, let's build some infrastructure. We're still quite far behind on the other side. http://www.straland.com/images/smilies/undecided.gif
Lt. Killer M
16-04-2004, 19:43
Matrix:
I understood that the two of us TALK before you sign a longer treaty with stapel.
also, I was simply following the split tech route we had envisaged long ago.
Matrix : is this thread open to both Stapel and Killer ? [crazyeye]
Some of this stuff looks like Spoiler info to me [dunno]
It's indeed for the three of us, Skyfish. I tell them whatever I want to share. [:p]
But Sky, now you can't play in ERIKK's place anymore! [:o]
The lads of the western continent prefer chat. Tss... [rolleyes]
quote:Originally posted by Matrix
The lads of the western continent prefer chat. Tss... [rolleyes]
I prefer this thread though!!
Well, it is clear that the Western (EDIT: Eastern) island decided to gang up on us. I was the obvious first target, being the closest and the biggest (no offense ;) )
I suggest that we are going to work together as well. Let's exchange the techs we have and research together as a first step. And let's also defend our borders together. Both of you already saw my willingness to share. I offered both of you techs. Unfortunately I have nothing to share right now, otherwise you would have gotten it.
Please consider this offer. We have a chance as a snowball in hell when we decide to play on our own. Let's forget the past (sorry Plux, didn't mean to raze your city [blush] ).
Deal?
First good news: I killed all the invaders and I am resettling my old core. I have plenty of knights left to counter a 2nd wave.
I'm all in for it! [goodjob]
Kemal en ProPain are far too good, but together we might be able to beat them! [yeah] Especially since it won't be long until I can build berserks. ;) And Plux Samurai. [:o]
I'll notify Plux about this thread. ;)
I have a cunning plan when we agree to work together until the eastern island is gone :)
Hmm, good job on fending off your invaders, Aggie! [goodjob]. I thought they might be able to take you out, but apparently not. Of course I'm all in for a good cooperation on our island. But does any of you have an idea of how much catching up we have to do techwise? I have a feeling we are miles behind PP and Kemal. So far I have no great plan about how we'd be able to pull smth off, but I'm all ears :)
I think that we should create a plan in which the Berzerks play a key role. We should have enough galley to get rid of the hostile naval force giving room for the main forces to strike, Matrix of course will play a key part in the offense.
I am not researching anything YET (I needed money for knights). What are do you two suggest on the tech part? And do you have other options?
I was first thinking that I should get a false peace treaty or even a false alliance with them, but that would be against my own rules.
By the way Matrix...shouldn't you mention clearly that this thread is not for the eastern island eyes?
I'll change the title.
I believe ProPain is the weakest at the moment. How about this: I'll try to get at least three cities of him, of which I'll give one to both of you. Then you have a sea bridge where you can deploy your units, and then it's "fire at will". But both of you do have to give me a city, roughly equally big as the one I gave you in the beginning, in return...
I have to take a quick look at the save. But did I (or Redwatch) get a city?
The biggest problem of giving you a city is that we reveal that we are buddies. If we do this (I am thinking about it atm) then we should fake as if it was a war trophy (so we should be at war).
digger760
05-08-2004, 14:11
I notice that the turn order in sequence for you guys, Aggie - Plux -Matrix. What is the diplo status between the 3 of you? Depending on this it could be possible for Aggie to gift a city while appearing at war with matrix.
ie if Aggies is at war with matrix and plux is peacful with both then Aggie could gift the city to plux and plux could gift the city to Matrix...as long deals are all "send accepted" then the eastern allies will think that Matrix took the city from Aggie by means of force :)
Faking a war won't be effective. Why would I attack ProPain if we are at war?
quote:But did I (or Redwatch) get a city?
No, it's to pay me back because I will give you a city I will conquer with berserks, to give you an over-sea bridgehead.
I'm not sure if those cities/bridgeheads will have any chance of being kept. Of course, it's the only way for a possible invasion, but preparing for this will take a lot of resources maybe better used for development. As I said we have a lot of catching up to do I think. You guys willing to share any info at what stage of techs you are and you think PP and Kemal are? I still need invention, education and print press.
The first invasion of the right islanders failed, so I'm sure we will see such a thing happen as well. We probably first should help each other to advance. I lack Ivention, Theology atm.
I have invention in 3 turns, and lack Theology.
Aggie has given both of us a tech, so Plux and I owe him one. I'll give him Invention, Plux gives him Theology and Plux and I will trade Invention for Theology. Deal?
When will be a good time for an invasion?
Plux, if this alliance is truly dear to you, you got to agree to the tech trade.
It just occurred to me that I might have misinformed you about me having Theology. So I checked and indeed, I still lack it :(. I'm very sorry about that, but this deal can't be made now. I was researching Invention, but had just started so fortunately not too much waste on that. Better come up with a new research plan. I can go full on Theo, but that will still take some time. If Aggie has already started it, he better finish it, and I will pay for the techs. If one of us finishes Theo, we can go for three separate tech paths.
An invasion is still some time away I think. My army is ok atm, but not ready to go anywhere. How are we planning to invade? My samurai with their reasonable offense and good defensive skills could play an important role in it, for instance, land them after your berserkers poked a hole somewhere. Still, we need to think thoroughly about this, since a possible attack will need to be meaningful.
My biggest concern is war weariness and I will change to a monarchy next turn. I don't think that the eastern island will make peace to help me there. This WW made it difficult for me to research. And quite frankly I didn't expect to be alive...
I am researching ivention and still need 13 turns. If this is too slow then I think it would be best that I stop research and give you gold for techs instead. I will connect dyes and incense soon, so we could trade luxuries soon as well.
So I'm doing invention: ready in 3 turns.
Aggie's doing invention: ready in 13 turns.
Plux's doing theology: just started.
Then I think it would be best when Aggie would save money, Plux would continue on theology, and I'll do gunpowder after invention. When Plux has theology you can both choose: one does education, and one printing press.
That's a great plan Matrix.
Good plan, let's stick to that for now. Also I wonder how well the others co-operate, especially how close Erikk is to PP and Kemal. Although he just attacked Aggie, I suppose he's also still backwards compared to that evil couple. I think we should try to befriend him. We could try to acquire some techs of the Iro's and Persians through him. Give him the money for a tech and share it between the four of us. What about that?
Good idea, Plux!!
quote:----- Original Message -----
From: "Bram Kouwenberg" <bram@tweakers.net>
To: "Erikk" <erikkost@xs4all.nl>
Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2004 16:52
Subject: ddpp
Hey Erikk,
Ik vroeg me af of je Theology al hebt? Mocht dat zo zijn, hoeveel moet
dat kosten? Wat dacht je van 600gp?
Gr,
Plux
For as far as I can recall this is the first time ever I received a blind carbon copy. [:o]
digger760
09-08-2004, 09:05
Thank your lucky stars for that alliance Matrix...for you have the longest border to protect, if Egypt or Japan were at war with you.
You're sure you didn't want to post that in my spoiler thread? http://www.straland.com/images/smilies/cringe.gif
[rotfl]
hahahahahahahhaha
Well, I guess it doesn't matter too much Matrix, since without an alliance the other island will shit all over your side. ;)
digger760
09-08-2004, 23:08
quote:Originally posted by Matrix
You're sure you didn't want to post that in my spoiler thread? http://www.straland.com/images/smilies/cringe.gif
[B)] hmm well i suppose i could be putting ideas into peoples heads..but its not spoiler info...sorry for my big mouth.
Aggie, Plux, anarres was right that it doesn't matter, right? [rolleyes]
In that case it's ok, digger. ;)
Sure thing, Matrix, you can sleep on both ears tonight.. :)
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[devil]
Matrix, I wasn't going to attack you. I'm licking my wounds as we speak and felt the might of the Evil in the East.
Besides...I will not break an agreement, even if it means my own doom :)
I played my turns yesterday and found that I don't have Monarchy. So I have to live with my high war weariness. Still I make 60 gpt. So we can certainly get to some kind of agreement regarding my income.
Any news from Erik Plux?
No, nothing yet. I looked for him online yesterday but he wasn't there. I'll have another try today.
If I have Monarchy I'll offer it to you.
Pastorius
10-08-2004, 22:06
...if I was PP, Kemal or Erik, I would suspect that the amount of "diplo" going on in this thread is much more than just haggling over prices...
will be fun to see you team up for the assault though. Although they might see it coming, sort of, I doubt they will be fully prepared. Good luck guys
It hardly makes sense to hide it Paalikles. They also show openly that they are allied. As long as they don't know WHAT we discuss.
Plux, I would prefer if you'd remove the spearmen from the mountains near Strastad.
Aggie, Plux informed me by e-mail that ERIKK does not want to deal with us.
And what I haven't told you before is that I agreed with Kemal to a non-aggression pact, before we started these negotiations.
That makes things as obvious as can be. It's us vs them. We may be backward and pitiful, but we get to research at far lower prices and the three of us could really benefit from that. I doubt if I will be left alone (I see new galleys) but I also think that you two should watch your back for a surprise attack when they get Navigation (not that far ahead for them?). My plan is to build markets agin and then libraries to get the tech speed up and running agian.
I have a lot of libraries finished already, thanks to the peace I negotiated with Stapel. :) Also to counter the cultural difference between Plux and myself. [blush]
I fear that I can not pay you a lot. I have seen new attacks by Kemal and ProPain. I had to rush knights to prevent losses :(
So, Plux, shouldn't we help him? [rolleyes]
As I told you on MSN, I don't feel comfortable sending my troops eastwards since especially then I think I can expect a visit on my shores as well. But I can help out with a galley I have in that neighborhood by monitoring Aggie's shores. Here's the first result:
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Plux/2004815183912_Erikkslanding.jpg
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Unfortunately I don't have Monarchy for you, Aggie :(, but it's only 3 more turns to Theo.. [yeah]
I have Invention! [dance] I've offered it to Aggie for free. I've also offered it to Plux, but I thought he already had Theology.
I have agreed to give Aggie wines for 2 gpt. So Aggie, next turn, after you accepted to get my Invention, please send me 2 gpt, and I'll give wines in return and accept.
I also have one ivory left for Plux. (Aggie already has it.) Is 2 gpt also ok for you? Very cheap of course, but who needs luxes anyway? [rolleyes]
That stack from ERIKK looks rather bad :( I will probably survive the landings, but maybe at the cost of another city or two. I can keep rebuilding them, but the improvements are gone anyway...
Plux, I don't know. They're still coming with galley's and no caravel. That means Navigation (and Magnetism) are still quite far away from them. If we don't help him now, the others will be on our continent for good pretty soon. http://www.straland.com/images/smilies/undecided.gif
I am facing a new invasion. I have been thinking long and hard about it... But there is only ONE way for me to survive it and that's with you joining me in the war vs the eastern coalition. So I'm asking you to help me defend my land. You could have deals with certain people on the other island, but then you can simply attack the other two. If I don't get the support I need form both of you I will lose one way or the other. And then I guess it's best to raze all my cities to make it fast. I am fighting vs an overwhelming force and can't survive alone... I will not act as a barrier to your empires. I like to survive a bit longer with a little hope.
I will help.
Plux, you have three choices:
1. Do nothing.
2. Attack me in my undefended ass.
3. Join us.
Result will be:
1. Your destruction.
2. Your destruction.
3. A chance for us to win.
If they have Aggie, they'll simply move on to me and you.
And trust me: they don't have Navigation or Magnetism yet!
I'll make it a little easier for you, Plux. If you attack me, I'll disband all my cities except Faeriburg! :D
Ok, I'll send in some samurai. just for the hell of it.
Have you got some archers ready to upgrade??
Didn't think about that. [hmm] I never have units ready for upgrading; not my tactic. I should learn that. But I do have my first berserks ready in two turns. :D
Thanks for helping out Aggie, Plux! ;)
I will give you the troop positions when I get the next turn. Plux already showed us where ERIKK was and ProPain and Kemal are more in the South east. That force was especially threatening, although they won't take a city this turn. But I do expect a new invansion very soon. This had to be only a diversion to lure me to the fringes of my empire. I have my eastern coast badly defended :(
Especially Kemal must have a crazy-sized army. Almost all of the players are weak compared to me, but Kemal is still strong. I guess being in the middle of Erikk and PP makes you a bit cautious.
Perhaps Kemal is planning an attack on ProPain. [evil]
Interesting developments! ProPain must have retreated his troops, because I didn't kill them all last turn and yet they are out of sight. I killed two of Kemal's knights (everything that was in sight) and one of ERIKK. ERIKK still has a knight in the NE that I can see (1 hp), Kemal's units appear to be killed. Matrix can inform me about ProPain's and Kemal's units I guess.
But the best news is that I only have 8 knights, but still I'm stronger than ProPain and ERIKK. Kemal is stronger though.
I can really use your help. I suggest 5 knights/samurai each to help me defend the SE and NE parts of our island. I will not be able to train new troops fast. The maximum speed is 1 knight per 2 turns.
I will inform about their troop position as soon as possible. I will be able to attack ProPain, though it be with medieval infantry.
I have a choice: building knights and defend our continent, or building berserks and attack ProPain. He has practically no defense!! (It might even be better to attack with pikemen. [lol])
By the way: I forgot to add 2 gpt :(
I don't know if these are coming or going. I haven't attacked them since we didn't make a joint allied declaration of war yet.
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Plux/2004824232627_Erikksgalleys.jpg
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Samurai's are on their way. Still I'm not really happy with a GA which is not exactly of any decisive timing, but heck.. But I forgot to propose RoP's. Maybe you could remember to do that?
There is no sign of them anywhere... [scratch]
When there is no sign of them, I suggest that both of you get your troops ready as back up. That would allow you to stay at peace until I can't handle them anymore. I suggest that Plux places his troops 1 tile north of Athribis and Matrix 1 tiles W of Giza. Both of you would be out of sight of the enemy and also be able to cover a lot of distance.
I will include a ROP and my territory map in the next turn. I will also include the gpt payment for Matrix.
Sure. :)
If possible (not to avoid conflict) I'd like to stay at peace with ProPain for as long as possible, so that I can surprise him! :D But not when that would means you'd loose a city.
We are very lucky with the player order. First the three enemies are 'up' and then me. Should I not be able to win a battle the both of you can finish the job if needed before the enemies are up again. And I can provide you of the most acurate troop info possible:)
Good point! Well, I'm starting to have more and more confidence in a good outcome!
All troops are removed from my lands. I added ROPs proposals and 2 gpt for Matrix.
Ah, this is an old thread:
Short summary:
So Matrix's doing invention: ready in 3 turns.
Aggie's doing invention: ready in 13 turns.
Plux's doing theology: just started.
I just got Theology. I did send it to both of you. I guess one of you did give me invention a few turns ago? I guess I should go on researching Education. It should be there in 5 turns.
About diplo. Let's not make things comlicated. We should lock our alliance until the three others are gone, or until we unilaterally decide otherwise. Unlike the boardgame of diplomacy, this is for real. We should stick to it, and consider breaking it as cheating.
Can we agree on that?
About the strategy:
Matrix should indeed build up a nasty Berserk force. With no other goal but razing a view cities. The whole idea of a landing zone is no good, imho. If coordinated well, I can land a dozen Samurai right after it, and see if I can do some damage in inland cities. We need to make this plan NOW, as in NOW! Any delay will simply make my units obsolete.
Therefor, we might also consider going in with cavs, but that would take some turns for tech development.
So, Matrix:
Howmany Berserks do you have?
quote:Originally posted by Stapel
About diplo. Let's not make things comlicated. We should lock our alliance until the three others are gone, or until we unilaterally decide otherwise. Unlike the boardgame of diplomacy, this is for real. We should stick to it, and consider breaking it as cheating.
Can we agree on that?
Breaking a treaty is not cheating. This is Civ3, it works with reputation. ;) If someone breaks this treaty he'll probably be the enemy of the other two forever.
The strategy is good. I can't remember how many berserks I have ATM; I believe just one or two. I also built a few knights for defense. But I'm building berserks now at full speed (plus necessary fleet).
Well, when playing a regular Human-AI-AI-AI-AI-Human, I consider a 27 turn peace deal between humans a 27 turn peacedeal. No way it can be broken.
I think we should stick to this agreement.
In my view a deal is a deal. I already pointed out what I would do when a deal with me is broken... And besides that: all fun of a game is gone when I notice that someone breaks a deal with me. That's why I created my PBEM- "ruleset".
Regarding the attack plans: for now I think it is wise to strengthen my defense with your troops, as discussed a few posts ago. I am not capable to help you with research or even an attack of the other island. I'm fighting for survival. That said: last turn I saw no enemy troops, except for a galley or two.
Also: I think that the other island is far ahead in techs. They had a calm building game so far while we were fighting.
It wouldn't surprise me if they enter the next age, the moment when we land.
I do have some Samurai, but only a galley or two in bad locations. It's going to take 15 turns, before I can land a decent SoS in ProPainistan.
We should not dream of a real invasion. Simply do some damage!
Just to introduce myself, I take over Aggie's spot and I don't even know which civ I get, because I can't find any reference to it. Isn't that the ally you all longed for :)
Dudes! This sucks really serious! [:o]
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Matrix/2004112418014_ProPainCavalry.jpg
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I was going to present a plan: I could capture Akwesasne and donate it to Stapel, so that he can deploy all his units there and start kicking some Iroquois butts. But now I think...any plan will fail. [help]
Do you have any idea what we could seriously damage the others?
By the way, I will have Gunpowder next turn. :)
Ok, just talked to you both about research. As it seems bankin is not that important, so we should aim for chemistry now. As it stands Stapel would do astronomy and Matrix chemistry. I will fuel that research as far as possible. Otherwise I could do banking, but I do not think this is that important.
Question remains: what do we do? Are we still going to invade the Iroquois? Or will we simply wait for them to invade Egypt and strike back?
Incoming!
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Matrix/2004122212955_PPInvasion.jpg
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Two other notes:
- If you press F4 you can see a mutual aggression pact is now an option. This means Kemal's free tech was Nationalism.
- ERIKK and ProPain are also in the Industrial Age. They all three are still cooperating 100% (contrary to the idea Kemal has given me in the two last chats I had with him).
We can't invade with knights/samurai against cav. Even with zerks- who can attack from boats - we will stand no chance. It will get worse soon, when the get their lands railed. We will have a hard time to fend of cavs guarded by rifles, but that is imho still the better way.
Yea, you're right. Just let them come and hurt 'em.
Hehe.
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/grs/2004125181630_hehe.jpg
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I'll let my units stay on our island.
BTW, I will head for chemistry. I will start next turn, but then I'll have it in 4.
Kemal and I had a lux-deal: 2 lux for 2 lux. But now I want 7gpt per lux extra. [evil]
So please don't do a lux-deal when he asks for one. We want him to bleed. Besides, it wouldn't be fair to me, because I do this so that I get more of him.
In anycase there will be a few cities in disorder his next turn. [groucho]
hehe, I had already turnt down his proposal a turn ago.
Guess he won't ask me anyways :)
Because I cancelled the treaty without warning him in advance he doesn't want to renegotiate (for a while). His loss. [lol] I don't need those luxuries anyway...
Edit: I just read the open thread. Eh...[rolleyes]...good luck, grs. http://www.straland.com/images/smilies/lipsrsealed.gif
Shall I help or pretend I have a little more chance of winning if I play nice with Kemal?
I suppose nothing helps. I'd keep true to my biggest ally: Egypt. One problem though: I have a peace treaty with Kemal that lasts for another 12 turns. [cry]
Stapel, since I'm not trading wines with Kemal anymore, I'm offering it to you. 1gpt is minimum. If you want to give more, go ahead. [mischief] I mean, you're wealthier and you'll get Banking sooner. ;)
I can give you gems instead!
That would be perfect. ;)
I had a 4:3 kill ratio vs Kemals cavs. 2 spears, 6 pikes, 4 knights, 1 galley, 2 MDI is all that is left of my military. I can see 29 Persian cavs - no others visible.
Hm, what to do in a hopeless situation? http://www.straland.com/images/smilies/undecided.gif
I'd say make it as hard as possible for Kemal!
How come I have a non-aggression pact with my best friend's enemy?!? [cry] [wallbash]
If you stick to that non-aggression pact... will you win?
Matrix,
That non-aggression pact is worthless. We (GRS, you & me) are allies. We do have a Military Alliance.
It was Kemal's fault! He is the aggressor!
If you don't attack him, you break a real alliance!
quote:Originally posted by Banzai
If you stick to that non-aggression pact... will you win?
No, I'll lose. If I won't stick to it that NAP I'll lose as well.
The only thing I have to lose is my dignity.
Will I keep it
by keeping true to this alliance but breaking a treaty,
or by holding on to the treaty but abandoning my best friend Egypt?
I will keep true to this alliance and will make an announcement after he has played, otherwise he'll start yelling "Oh, he broke a treaty! Bad boy! Bad boy!"
no no no!
Just tell him you have a military alliance with Egypt! His fault, he should have checked with you!
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