Stapel v kryszcztov - OPEN TOPIC

[Socrates]

NOT FOR STAPEL until the game is over.



1v1 PBEM #3 - [u]Stapel v kryszcztov :</u>
version : C3C 1.15b
world size : Standard
land mass : Pangea
water coverage : 70%
climate : Temperate
temperature : Normal
age : 5 Billion
barbarians : Roaming
player 1 - Stapel : Mongols
player 2 - kryszcztov : China
AI rivals : 6 (all other militaristic civs)
AI agression : Normal
available victories : all except Wonder
difficulty : Demi-God
culturally linked start locations : No
respawn AI players : No
preserve random seed : Yes
allow cultural conversions : Yes

map made by : Aggie

This game will be played along the RBCiv rules. Additional rules include : no resource disonnection, no MAs against human players, no MPPs with the AIs, no RoP after Steam Power. I also asked for our starting positions to be not very far from each other...

[Socrates]

STARTING POSITION

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/kryszcztov/200444172238_Stapel-kryszcztov01 3950BC StartingPosition.JPG
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AIs have been placed on mountains in 4000BC, thus haven't settled before us.
I settled right away, to be sure of where to send the worker next. A cow on grassland appeared in the city's radius, as well as 3 bonus grasslands and many more forest tiles. I started on a warrior and moved the worker towards the cow, onto a forest tile. Because every initial tech is available from the beginning from the whole of the civs, and because I can't research a more advanced tech, I decided to start no research. Pottery is known by 3 civs already : Aztecs, Zulus and Mongols (Stapel). Better find one of them quickly.

[Socrates]

A little note to say that things are going well in this game. I was rather surprised to see that Stapel and I were quite distant from each other, but oh well.

Well, I founded cities, and built many barracks immediately (after workers and warriors/walls sometimes). My tiny empire in 1500BC :

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/kryszcztov/200452718209_Stapel-kryszcztov02 1500BC ChineseEmpire.JPG
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The destroyed city was one of Stapel that he abandonned after building a couple of stuff. I packed my cities so that they can use 12 tiles each, but then I saw that Stapel was far away (I first intended to go after a Middle Age conquest, with Stapel rather close). Then Vikings declared war :

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/kryszcztov/2004527182714_Stapel-kryszcztov03 1425BC VikingsDeclareWar.JPG
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And then I founded more cities, and built more units.
And that's where we are now.

[Socrates]

WE'RE ALL MILITARISTIC (COPYRIGHTS FOR THE LYRICS)

We're playing again, and so I'll restart to explain what I'm doing in more details. (Anyway I always attach my logs at the end of the game.)

Basically I used my capital as a 6-turn settler+units factory. Of course I built a barracks there pretty soon. [goodjob] I founded 6 cities around the capital, and I'm now founding some more further away. So far I haven't built anything but : settlers (in my capital), workers, warriors, spearmen, walls, barracks, and of course the granary in Beijing. This is a new approach for me, and I feel like I'm doing pretty well on this pangea map. My military is at least average to many AIs, if not stronger. But you note that I have no offensive units at the moment. I'll soon connect both iron and horses (hopefully), and start to build horsemen and upgrade my warriors. All my cities that have barracks (except Beijing) are building spearmen exclusively ; yes, I'm doing some kind of Chinese Great Wall game, except that I won't build the wonder.

On the diplomacy front, the Vikings declared war on me on turn 63, and so did the Aztecs on turn 78. I'm enjoying some war happiness, and so far I haven't lost a single unit, thank you 10-shield walls ! [cool] I plan to fight against the Aztecs soon, as they have the Pyramids. They have an iron source close to my borders, and so I'd better take it from them...

On the science front, I haven't researched anything so far (done some pretty good deals with the AIs), and so I have a big treasury. It will be used for upgrades, probably improvement-rushing when I'll be in a better form of government, and for buying some techs if I can't take them from the AIs by force.

Here is how things look in 1000BC :

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/kryszcztov/200471415939_Stapel-kryszcztov04 1000BC ChineseEmpire.JPG
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I'm also becoming quite strong, as a peek on F11 shows :

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/kryszcztov/20047142240_Stapel-kryszcztov05 1000BC Demographics.JPG
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Yes, after only 80 turns, I'm 1st in all the 3 important demographics ! [cool] I have 15% of the world population, the Aztecs and the Germans being close behind (but the Aztecs have the Pyramids). I'm also 1st in family size and productivity, which is of great hope for the future. All of this has something to do with my city pattern, since I'm 8th in territory... not for long I hope. [evil] And as for military service, I think I've never done so well.

I'm thinking of going for Monarchy when I can afford it, and wage huge wars to my neighbours with my constant flow of units. Don't think it's worth going for Stapel now, I think I'll wait for my Riders at least. I hope Stapel is up for some "Rider v Keshik" action some time in the future !! [fdevil]

[Socrates]

MAXIMAZING THE MILITARISTIC TRAIT

Every good story never lasts forever, and on turn 82 I lost my first units, which will be followed by many other ones. The plan was to go after the Aztecs, so as to capture the Pyramids and clear one front. So on turn 83 I signed peace with the Vikings, receiving 140 gold.

Around those turns I eventually connected both iron and horses. Iron would give me an astonishing advantage against the Aztecs ; this empire was the largest one at those times, and to fight them was really something in the beginning. I didn't make any breakthrough at first, trying to hold all my cities and units, while producing many swordsmen. My spearmen behind walls were of great help, and I always had enough to save any city, as they were moving from here to there along the roads built by my industrious workers. The Aztecs had horses, but no iron (they never managed to connect theirs). So I slowly but surely got the advantage. On a sidenote, I surprisingly never built any horseman in this game, feeling confident in my stronger but slowlier swordsmen.

During all those turns Beijing continued to produce settlers and units, slowly expanding and strenghtening the Chinese Empire.

On turn 87 the Aztecs brought the Japanese against me, the latter ones immediately brought the Romans to the party, the new latter ones immediately brought the Zulu to complete the family photography. I think I had never seen that in Civ !! [eek] I suddenly had 4 civs after me, but hopefully, the new 3 ones were on the other side of the continent, and so I started to expect doing some troops training against those weaker foes.

On turn 91 I gave 351 gold to the Germans for Polytheism, which I sold back to Stapel for Construction + 8 gold + 4 gpt. I think that's where everyone including him revolted to Republic, leaving me alone in the Whip World. [whipped] To add good measure, the Germans soon built the Statue of Zeus, and the Vikings the Great Lighthouse. Mmmh, stronger enemies to come...

On turn 96 (630BC) I eventually got my 1st MGL, which I of course used for an army on the following turn. I used French names for this game, so I'll tell you what they mean ; this unit was renamed "Lotus' Sword". Sounding Chinese enough ? :D

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/kryszcztov/2004810155824_Stapel-kryszcztov06 630BC MGL1.JPG
38.97*KB

On that same turn I auto-razed Atzcapotzalco, the city holding the Aztec iron. On turn 100 my army, filled with ONE swordsman, got its 1st victory. I was still doing things the complicated way : I wanted to have elite* units to fill that army, instead of engaging 2 other veteran units. I was feeling that every unit had the "right" to generate a leader. But on the course of a game, this is all but hopeless, and so I apology to my readers. [blush] Anyway, on turn 102 I razed Tzintzuntzen, a city lying in the south-east of my empire (see map above). I razed them all at first because of the culture advantage they had, and because I didn't want to lose time calming down the resistors, and because my capital was producing Chinese settlers anyway.

The Japanese built the Great Wall, which was good to stop Stapel. On turn 105 (450BC) I got my 2nd leader, used to rush the Heroic Epic in Canton on the following turn. That small wonder was the real investment in my militaristic way of doing, and there was no question about it. The victory unit was renamed "Spring's Sabre"...

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/kryszcztov/2004810161034_Stapel-kryszcztov07 450BC MGL2.JPG
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http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/kryszcztov/2004810161658_Stapel-kryszcztov08 430BC HeroicEpic.JPG
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I also auto-razed Calixtlahuaca on that turn, the other city next to the Aztec iron. I didn't have to wait long before my 3rd leader, which I got on defense on the turn 108 IT (390BC). It was an elite spearman who generated him, but I forgot it as I decided its new name, "Silk Blade" ! [crazyeye] All those names were for swordsmen actually... The leader was later used to rush... an aqueduct in Nanking !! Yes, a 100-shield aqueduct. So that Nanking could have more tiles to harvest, and grow above size 6 (useful in a later form of government).

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/kryszcztov/2004810162116_Stapel-kryszcztov09 390BC MGL3.JPG
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On turn 111 I razed Tula, a 2nd Aztec city lying in a different part from their homeland. The Zulu auto-razed Shantung, a city I had just founded in the north-west, and it really pissed me off ! I took a gamble on defense, but this time it failed. On turn 113 I razed Tlacopan, the city which was located in the north of the iron city. And then the Germans took part in the Saturday Night Fever, allying with the Romans on the turn 115 IT. No problem, I razed Texcoco, which you can see on the 1000BC map, on turn 116 (230BC), and got me a 4th leader, which I also used to rush an aqueduct in Tsingtao. The victorious swordsman was renamed "Dragon Destroyer". Still quite Chinese ?

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/kryszcztov/2004810163357_Stapel-kryszcztov10 230BC MGL4.JPG
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I was not researching anything, like from the beginning, and was ready to let the Aztecs live if they gave me all the techs I could grab at once, which they were starting to agree on. But I first wanted to annihilate their power. And then the game came in my favour : the Germans built the Temple of Artemis, and so the Aztecs immediately built the Great Library in Tlaxcala. I wanted to capture that city for the free temples it would eventually generate, but now it was free techs I was going to get !! [goodjob] So it became my next goal.

[Aggie]

Hey, you accidently printed the same screenie 4 times!

Lucky bastard [tongue]

[Socrates]

Yeah, and I worked the back of the image with Photoshop, because I had nothing to do today. [tongue] The spoiler still isn't up-to-date, and there are more MGLs on the way... All I can say is that you gotta deserve them. [goodjob]

[Socrates]

LEADERS AND FLIPS, GLORIOUS VICTORIES AND CULTURAL GUERILLA (?)

So the next goal really became Tlaxcala, in Western Azteca. I slowly began to approach the city with a stack of swordsmen, and eventually captured it on turn 121 (130BC). Meanwhile, I had razed Malinalco, the 3rd city lying away from their homeland (leaving only one front of Aztec units), and I had just captured Teotihuacan (1st city captured !). At that time my sole army was filled with 3 elite* swordsmen. To get more confident in my new Viking friends, I signed a RoP with them, earning 4 gold + 1 gpt. I was also dealing with more and more units coming from other parts of the world, where some obscure leaders had a good reason to fight against me. [}:)] At that moment, 3 wonders were built in a row : Rome got Sun Tzu, Germany got the Gardens, and Japan took Leonardo under their (feeble) protection.

The following turn (turn 122) was a delight to live : the Library got me Literature, Currency, Republic, Monarchy, Feudalism, Engineering, Invention and Gunpowder. Yes, I got as far as Gunpowder, and no one had Monotheism yet (maybe one ?). That was a nice present, but it will prove otherwise in the future... Anyway I was now ready to upgrade all my spearmen to pikemen, and needless to say that I had all the money I wanted to do so.

On turn 124 I captured Tenochtitlan, the Aztec capital holding the Pyramids ! [goodjob] I needed free granaries so that my cities could jump to size 7 more easily. And that was the sign I had been waiting for long : those 2 wonders let me revolt, and I drew 7 turns of anarchy. I also signed peace with Zululand, and with Japan (earning 13 gold + 12 gpt).

On turn 126 I got Monotheism for free, but that's where it started to get complicated : Tlaxcala, the city with the Library, flipped back to the Aztecs !! No problem, I immediately captured both Tlatelolco and Xochicalco on that turn, after what seemed to be a bloody turn for me. On turn 128, on the 1st turn it could do so, Xochicalco flipped back as well !! [eek] I was just at a max of 2 turns away from capturing back Tlaxcala, and bye bye Aztecs. And guess what : I had put my army in it for one more turn, and now bye bye army ! [blush2] On the following turn I captured back Xochicalco. But I now had to rest my few swordsmen and deal with Aztec units coming back from boats, so it delayed me to Tlaxcala... in fact enough for another flip. But first let me tell you of one good news : leader #5 on turn 130 (50AD) ! It was a medieval infantry who generated him, and because it occurred to me (a few turns before that) that those units look like Darth Vader from the back, I decided to rename him "Darth Vader", but in its "French" name.

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/kryszcztov/2004811142617_Stapel-kryszcztov11 50AD MGL5.JPG
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On turn 131 (70AD) I got out of anarchy, and chose Monarchy, as desired for so long. My aim was to wage wars for quite some time, and I thought it would be best to be a king, not to mention that I only had 2 luxuries but many pikemen in my cities. The leader was used to create an army, but I kept it empty, waiting for powerful units to come. [evil]

On turn 132 I signed peace with the Romans, but I had to give 40 gold (only) ; more and more legionnaries were coming from the west, and I needed my units elsewhere, obviously. I also wanted Stapel's neighbours to be stronger for him. Speaking of Stapel, we set up a lux deal : I gave my spices for his furs, which helped me to earn more money.

On turn 136 another city flipped back to the Aztecs : Tlatelolco ! [cry] [cry] Really freeking, but hey, I almost didn't have any culture. 2 turns later and it was Xochicalco who did so again ! [cry] [cry] [cry] My few units over there were really lost as for what to do. Fortunately I got a 5th leader on that turn (turn 138 (210AD)), used for a 2nd empty army. The swordsman was renamed "The Swordsman Strikes Back". :D

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/kryszcztov/2004811143744_Stapel-kryszcztov12 210AD MGL6.JPG
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At that point I decided that I needed all my units there, and so I signed peace, and a RoP, with the Germans, earning 10 gold + 15 gpt. BTW, that's where Stapel completed the Knights Templar. While my units were coming to Azteca, they captured back Tenochtitlan (Pyramids). [aargh] Of course no city up there was defended. I renewed the RoP with the Vikings, earning 2 gold ! But then they declared war for the 2nd time. The Japanese wanted to renew the peace deal, and so did I.

Techs were being discovered, and I didn't want to wait for my riders any longer, so on turn 146 I captured back Tlaxcala, and the Library gave me Theology, Chivalry, Education, Chemistry and Metallurgy ! On turn 150 I built my 1st rider. I established some more embassies, and signed some RoP's with Japan, Zululand and Rome for a bit of money. I got a 7th leader, used for a 3rd empty army. The victorious medieval infantry was renamed "The Return of the Medieval Infantry". :D

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/kryszcztov/200481114542_Stapel-kryszcztov13 350AD MGL7.JPG
41.81*KB

I also was able to sign peace and RoP with the Vikings, earning 6 gold + 14 gpt. Berserks were on my way !!! I also sold iron to Japan for 22 gold + 5 gpt. On turn 151 I captured back Xochicalco, on turn 152 Tenochtitlan. On turn 153 (380AD) I used a rider for attacking in Azteca, and forgot it would trigger my Golden Age. [blush] I had planned it a little afterwards, but it was fine anyway. It was now time to produce riders en masse, so as to attack my next target : Germany.

[anarres]

Shit, how many MGL's so far? [eek]

[Aggie]

Reminds me of my first ERIKK game...No MGL until 5 turns before the end of the game :(

[Socrates]

quote:Originally posted by anarres

Shit, how many MGL's so far? [eek]
quote:Originally posted by kryszcztov, the MGL boss

I got a 7th leader, used for a 3rd empty army.
Thinking of it now, I wouldn't rush 2 aqueducts in my 1st core cities, and I would use my veteran units to fill my armies. Armies are just too good against the AI in C3C, they are freaking things !!

[Socrates]

HOW TO LOSE A GAME...

Well, everyone knows that I lost this game to Stapel, but I had to comment the last part of it.

To be short, I used my armies of riders to destroy German cities which didn't have any wonder, and grab the ones with wonders, all of this by avoiding the ones which were actually on wonder production. It proved to be very hard and long, since my riders were obsolete by the time I used them (cavalries...), and so I once again got stucked in a Vietnam-like war. :( I eventually got rid of the Aztecs though.

Another mistake was to declare war on the Vikings while dealing with Germans at the same time. The idea was that I only needed my armies for the Germans, since they are uber-units and I had to go deep inside the German territory (see my war plan above). So other units could go for the Vikings. I managed to discover Astronomy by myself, the only time I did so in the entire game.

The game got bad when I lost a rider army in Germany, and then it was becoming long and frustrating. That's where Stapel had the idea to strike me bad, at a time when I was (once again) trying to develop my empire, though it was well later than versus Skyfish. Both games look a bit the same as for the end... I abandonned on turn 176 (610AD).

A last pic I took, when I got my 8th and last leader :

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/kryszcztov/200496211351_Stapel-kryszcztov16 600AD MGL8.JPG
45.82*KB

My game log, useful almost only for the QSC times (up to 1000BC) :

Download Attachment: icon_paperclip.gif Stapel-kryszcztov.txt (http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/kryszcztov/200496211725_Stapel-kryszcztov.txt)
12.21*KB

[Socrates]

BTW, did you know that Stapel wanted to abandon when he lost a city by culture flip ? I convinced him to continue, and it proved to be worthy. [crazyeye]