View Full Version : Diplomacy - CDZ game #1
Socrates
29-03-2004, 15:59
Hello, Diplo freaks !!! :D
This will be our thread for the whole first game. It will be used for setting the game up, posting results with maps (I hope), and posting adjustments... Spoilers are welcome, but I think it's best if people start their spoilers inside their own forums. They would be nice for lurkers, and for players once they're out of the game.
Each game needs a game master, and so I accept to be the big boss unless anyone stands against it. ;) Game master stuff is described in the other thread.
We also have to choose a nation. I intend to let people choose their nation. Then, in case of a draw, we can agree on friendly terms, or just set up some rule to decide. Like : make a list of the 7 nations, from your first to your last choice. I will decide in the last case. I think a general MSN session could be nice, but we need all the players. I have some free time during the day until Wednesday ; the only problem is for tunerica, who should log in the evening, while we European players are in the middle of the day.
col is away for 2 weeks, which will slow down the game. I cannot guarantee my schedule for the next 3 months yet (start to work on Thursday). Anyway, there is "away" and "away" : if you can get e-mails and get a little time to write your orders while you're away, then the game could keep its pace. Maps will be posted every turn to ensure people can have a clear view of the game.
Now, onto my choice for nations :
1- France (ahem, yes...)
2- Germany
3- Russia
4- Great-Britain
5- Italy
6- Turkey
7- Austria-Hungary (though it's a very nice country...)
People make your choice !!! [evil]
Umm, nations have certain advantages and disadvantages right?
How about you vets telling us n00bz what is what, so we don't get fucked in the ass before we start. ;)
Socrates
29-03-2004, 17:35
Looooooooooooooooooooool !!! [lol]
Well maybe ! I'm not a vet BTW. I played a little, a long time ago... Not like col !! [eek] Well, look at my list and... err no, my list isn't perfect. [blush] Every nation can win, it mostly depends on early alliances, but of course (like in Civ) some nations are stronger over lots of game. Basically I'd say that nations stucked in the middle are hard to play, but they can also become stronger if not crushed in the beginning.
For any general question about the game, there is a thread for that in this forum. Might be an idea to fill this one. And no, France isn't the best nation anytime... ;)
I've lost with every country. The wicked witches of the east and west - Turkey and England are easier to play because they dont have a back door but you only interact with one or two players. The central coutries involve you with more other players but you can get mown down rapidly.
I'll play anything but preferably not Turkey since I played them in my last game a few months ago.
Melifluous
29-03-2004, 23:52
I asked my Father-in-law for advice and just before he fainted he imparted these words of advice...
quote:There's nothing wrong with Turkey, other than limited options at the start.
I would tend to advise avoiding Austria and England in a first game, as they
are very prone to early elimination.
I wouldn't want to start with an unfair advantage btw
But since we are mainly N00b5, I dont suppose much matters here...
Regarding starting soon, isnt Col away from the 2nd?
Also I have links to strat sites.
may i suggest http://www.diplomacy-archive.com/resources/strategy/opening.htm
Melifluous
PS. I would really like to play as the "Where's the White Flag" "Là où est le blanc diminuez?" Italien s'il tu plait...
Melifluous
Who put the tit in Mathematitian?
England is Ok. It just plays a little different having 2 fleets to begin with.
I'll make some place on my computer table for the diplo board tonight and come up with nation preferences. Since I consider myself a newbie I tend to prefer peripheral nations.
I prefer the Ottoman empire, for the simple reason it plays with the yellow armies. For the rest: roll a dice!
Socrates
30-03-2004, 15:32
LOL !! :D My board game has Turkey in green, but Austria in yellow... I guess it changes from edition to edition... Also my French version doesn't have the same name for every region. But I think Turkey in yellow is the "official" version we'll use. So let Stapel be the Turks ! [cool]
I'm still waiting for anarres, Beam, tunerica and col to post their preference. col doesn't care, and now he's sure not to get Turkey. Beam, the peripherical nations are Great-Britain, France, Russia and Turkey. Anyone can choose any country, even already "chosen" by someone else.
P.S. : I've always used the yellow units for any board game, just because it used to be my preferred colour. But in this game, the colour isn't just a matter of esthetics... [crazyeye]
Ok - heres my preference list.
Germany
England
Italy
France
Russia
Austria
Tyrkey
I am making this up as I go along, but...
France
England
Turkey
Italy
Russia
Austria
Germany
tunerica
30-03-2004, 20:17
Having never played the game before I have no real idea about the benefits of each, so just give me whatever is left.
Socrates
30-03-2004, 22:22
OK guys. anarres, grrrrrrrrrrr... [tongue]
Only Beam hasn't spoken. Come on ! As for when we will start, well we'll start right after every player has a nation. col is away for 2 weeks, but maybe he can play (chat/email and send orders ?) ? That would be nice, but if col really can't play, then we won't start before he's back. [sad]
BTW I intend to rework the schedule a bit, so as to give more time for chatting and writing orders (so that it'll be more flexible for away players). Check the other thread once done.
I really cant - I'm gonna be moving from mountain to mountain skiing - and getting pissed. I wont have any internet access at all - actually I'm looking forward to freedom from the tyranny of having to mod OT for a while. (Its homochristian week)
Just a pic while making up the list. My board is in Dutch btw, but came with conference carts in French, Dutch and English.
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Beam/2004330222447_Dsc00233s.jpg
110.75KB
Means my rulebook is in Dutch as well, is there an English digital one around just to avoid confusion?
Theres a link in this thread
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1608
Pref:
1. Italy
2. England
3. Russia
4. Turkey
5. France
6. Austria
7. Germany
The rule link seems to be down atm, imo we should agree on a single rule doc in English, my French is a little rusty lately ;)
Socrates
30-03-2004, 23:17
Yes, the link I gave in that thread is our reference, and BTW it's working for me right now. We will play in English !!! Beam and Stapel can chat in Dutch on their own of course, but other than that, English is the official language. At the end of that pdf file, you'll find a list of abbreviations, that we will use for orders. You're welcome to write "longer orders" if you don't want to mess it up (like writing "My fleet in London supports my fleet in the English Channel to move to the North Sea." instead of "F Lon S F Eng - Nth"). Don't forget that you'll have to write one order for EACH unit (in this case, you'll have to say that your fleet in the English Channel moves to the North Sea, otherwise the orders will be invalid).
I also took a pic of my board some days ago, I'll post it too, hehe.
So, as for nations :
Great-Britain : none
France : krys, anarres
Germany : col
Austria : none
Italy : Meli, Beam
Russia : none
Turkey : Stapel
tunerica will take what is left...
So far we can say :
Germany goes to col.
Turkey goes to Stapel.
(and that's all !)
About France : I have Germany as a 2nd choice (gone), Russia as a 3rd, while anarres has Great-Britain as a 2nd choice. We can make a friendly choice together (or not ?).
About Italy : Meli didn't specify other choices, while Beam has Great-Britain as a 2nd choice. You guys can choose together as well.
I'd say : a simple rule would state that a 2nd choice overruns a 3rd choice (etc...). Let's negociate via MSN ! :D
@Meli, let's throw a dice unless you're stuck with pizza ;)
krys, just toss a coin to see who gets what in the case of more than 1 wanting it. If you really care about France so much you can always lie about the toss. ;)
BTW, I keep falling asleep before midnight and waking up at 7am. [???] [crazyeye]
I just rolled some dice:
France - Kryszcztov
England - Anarres
Turkey - Stapel
Germany - Col
Italy - Melifluous
Russia - Beam
Austria - Tunerica
This is it, I guess. If you don't like it: bad luck!
Socrates
31-03-2004, 13:40
Loooooooool !!! [lol] They said you were falling asleep in the middle of the day at Stapel's. Do you do the same at home ?! [hmm]
Anyway, nah, I can't toss a coin, I wouldn't be able to accept this fucking RNG !! [blush] The only thing is that I'd really like to have France for my 1st 7-player game, but I won't die if if I get Russia.
At this point of the post, Stapel tells me via MSN the post just above (roll a dice), I can't blame his dice...
quote:Originally posted by kryszcztov
Loooooooool !!! [lol] They said you were falling asleep in the middle of the day at Stapel's. Do you do the same at home ?! [hmm]FWIW it was 8am after 20 hours of drinking!!!! [:p]
I'd rather be known for things I *have* done, rather than things I haven't...
Socrates
31-03-2004, 13:59
OK ! If anyone agrees with Stapel's list (I am), then we can start NOW.
Because col leaves us on Friday, we could try to play our 1st turn before that. So we could have a special schedule : like submitting orders before Friday, at whatever time col tells us. There won't be adjustment oreders for this turn, and no retreat orders (except for a very precise part of the map, which doesn't include col BTW), so once col has submitted his orders, we can do the rest without him, since NO TALKING IS ALLOWED BETWEEN SUBMITTING ORDERS AND STARTING A NEW TURN.
If everyone agrees with that, let's go ! Don't forget to talk to everyone, this is important. And col : please indicate a deadline that suits you ; we need a deadline for orders. As for when to stop talking before writing orders, I suggest we stopped on Thursday at 8pm GMT. If anyone hasn't checked this thread before that (you should check it almost daily by now), then we'll have to postpone the turn.
I need a "Go" message here from everyone !!!
GO [coool]
I'm Ok up to 6pm Friday (BST !) I'll be franticaly packing and looking for a clean pair of undies after that.Flying out eraly Sat morning. I can make any deadlines before then but you need more time before the first turn than at any other time in the game.
Orders submitted by 6pm BST Friday Ok for everyone?
Can someone post a contact list for everyone. I'd like an email address and a MSM address for everyone if possible.
email me
civ3col AT btinternet.com
MSM
civ3col AT hotmail.com
Good Luck everyone.
Remember rule 30 applies. If I'm losing I get to kick the board over and sulk.
tunerica
31-03-2004, 14:38
For those of you who don't have my contact details they are as follows:
Email and MSN: tunerica AT hotmail.com
All fine with me, glad we are moving!
Mail Tsar Beam at: beam at civ3duelzone dot com
MSN: fastbeamvr6 at hotmail dot com
EDIT: none of the above are monitored during office hours. If you need me urgently for negotiations please PM.
All have my MSN.
It can be used for e-mail as well, but I prefer Stapel at civ3duelzone dot com .
Since I play Turkey, I am looking forward to diplo with Tunerica and Beam.
My msm is in every post, just click the msm icon. ;)
Why are we staring now, instead of when col gets back? [???]
Damn, I wanna play too but..
a) dunno the game
b) have no time for heavy diplo, certainly not at business hours...
:(
I will watch this game and try the next one when it starts. Maybe I have more time then. I will know a lot more about the game for sure.
I already know I love this game... :)
Socrates
31-03-2004, 18:15
Hey ERIKK, please enjoy this match from you seat !! [cool] You'll find out this game is very nice, and allows for a lot of options. It's wise to learn the game through lurking, and I very hope a 2nd game will start after this one (not before summer, I think).
Why are we starting now ? Don't you wanna play ? I think we can make it in 48 hours, so let's get involved !!! Do a bit of reading, a bit of diplomacy with your neighbours, and write your orders for the 1st turn (not before tomorrow night). Then you'll have 2 weeks to read the rules carefully and build up your strategy.
Of course I'm waiting col and Meli on MSN, but I'm also looking forward to talking to Beam and tunerica (already did some talking with anarres and Stapel ;) ).
Socrates
01-04-2004, 08:38
IMPORTANT MESSAGE
Because we're currently trying to rush through turn 1 (to be completed before Friday night), I find it important that we all connect to MSN tonight (Thursday). Talking to everyone can pay in the long term, and it would show you're actually taking part in the game. Please try to meet this commitment, but if you can't, then too bad. tunerica, I need to know your time difference (are you in GMT+8 ?) ; I'm not sure you can make it tonight (you'll be sleeping !), so make your best to email to people ; if you can connect to MSN, all the better.
Due to col's departure, we'll try to close the discussions tonight, afterwhich silence rules. Orders are to be sent to me before Friday evening. When I post the results, some people may have to retreat, and will need to send me retreat orders (let's say before Sunday evening). Only when I post results about such retreats you're allowed to talk to each other again. Each turn there is only ONE timeframe for talking purpose, and that's in the beginning of the turn, before it's time to write orders. In this 1st turn, you won't encounter any retreat, except maybe for Italy and Austria (I'm only technically speaking here ;) ), so col is OK for leaving before that.
I remind you that this thread is for talking about this game only. Other threads are waiting for your questions and comments. ;)
EDIT : OK, I screw it up !! :D There WON'T be any retreat orders this turn because no unit can be dislodged. Me stupid. Well, that can act as a warning for Italy and Austria : you each have one unit next to each other, so the game REALLY starts on turn 1. Talk.
I have only found 2 people on MSM in the last 2 days, and I've been around a lot! :(
To those I haven't spoken to: PLEASE come online if you can - or PM/email me and tell me when you can make it online!!
tunerica
01-04-2004, 10:46
I am GMT +10, also, when you say Friday evening what timezone are you working on for that. Will try and be online a little later which will be around midnight my time (2pm GMT). Hopefully I will be able to catch up with at least some of you.
I'll be on-line tonight at about 8:00 BST / 9:00 DST (Dutch Summertime).
I will be home at 21:00 Dutch Summer time
I need a chat with Beam and Tunerica/Agsy.
Socrates
01-04-2004, 12:41
tunerica, to be sure of your time, you are in the "GMT+10 timezone", right ? English people are in the GMT timezone (obviously), whereas our Dutch friends and I are in the GMT+1 timezone. But here in the northern hemisphere, we just changed our clock, and are now using the "summer time" (can't remember how you call it). So, until the end of October, it will be 1pm in England and 2pm in France and the Netherlands when it's noon for GMT. We'll use GMT hours, in great part for your convenience.
You must now be in what I'd call the "winter time" in Australia ? My brother went there (around Sydney) last year, and he was 8 hours ahead of us in the summer, and then 10 hours ahead in the winter. I think you must be in the east of Australia, right ? When you reach midnight, it's 4pm here, 3pm in that British isle ;) and 2pm as for GMT (our reference). I won't be on MSN at 4pm, so you'd better send me an e-mail. Or : connect when you wake up, as I'll be online until well 1-2am (9-10am for you). Should work...
Done with this time consideration. I think we can safely go now, using GMT time.
P.S. : When I say "Friday evening", I mean using GMT hours (Europe), which means "Saturday morning" for you.
This webpage might be in handy in determining timezones etc. Unfort. it is in Dutch only but I am looking for an English one:
http://www.meteonet.nl/diversen/wrldklok.htm
Translation of some words:
- Stad / Land = City / Country
- Plaatselijke tijd = Local Time
- Verschil met locale tijd = Difference with local time
- Achter = behind
- Voor = ahead
- Verschil met UTC = Difference with UTC
- Zomertijd? = Summertime?
- ja / onbekend / nee = yes / unknown / no
EDIT: here is one in English.
http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/
Socrates
03-04-2004, 18:56
Here are the raw orders that I received.
SPRING 1901 :
AUSTRIA
Army Budapest - Serbia
Fleet Trieste Holds
Army Vienna - Budapest
FRANCE
F Bre-Mao
A Par-Pic
A Mar-Pie
GERMANY
A Mun - Ruh
F Kie - Den
A Ber - Kie
GREAT-BRITAIN
Fleet (Edinburgh) - Norwegian Sea
Fleet (London) - North Atlantic [this one is invalid]
Army (Liverpool) - York
ITALY
Italy: F Nap -> Tys
Italy: A Rom -> Tus
Italy: A Ven -> Tri
RUSSIA
A Mos - Ukr
A War - Gal
F StP - Gulf of Bothnia
F Sev - Rum
TURKEY
F Ankara - Black Sea
A Constantinople - Bulgaria
A Smyrna - Armenia
One of anarres's orders is invalid, but could be due to his confusion between the North Sea and the North Alantic Ocean. I haven't stated on this yet. Give your comments about that.
Also I have to "format" these orders in another post. I will do that only after this problem is solved. Results are particularly obvious for this turn, so I'll just wait a little to post the results and the new map. Should I open a new (closed) topic for all the results, and keep this one for general stuff about this game ?
quote:Originally posted by kryszcztov
GREAT-BRITAIN
Fleet (Edinburgh) - Norwegian Sea
Fleet (London) - North Atlantic [this one is invalid]
Army (Liverpool) - York
One of anarres's orders is invalid, but could be due to his confusion between the North Sea and the North Alantic Ocean. I haven't stated on this yet. Give your comments about that.Well, I did mean North Sea. :(
Since it is obvious what he meant, ans since it is his first game of diplomacy, I think the turn should be corrected to: Fleet (London) - North Sea.
According to the rules, it should hold.
But let this be warning to all of us. Next invalid move means 'hold'.
Anarres: if you use realpolitik.exe, you can copy the moves, which might prevent these mistakes.
Great, first turn is not even completed and we have a discussion over basic rules. Not just basic, one of the simplest rules in the game. And I certainly don't look forward having discussions about the more complex rules if there is discussion about this one.
Take is as a 'hold' then, I really can't complain whatever is decided.
Certainly no-one should get upset over my mistake...
Socrates
04-04-2004, 03:06
Stapel, I think you meant "the order to be corrected to : Fleet from London to North Sea", or I just don't understand anything.
As the mistake was pretty obvious, and because this was the 1st turn, I accept the movement order that anarres surely meant. But no more mercy will be accepted from now, even a slight misspelling. Orders are to be written either through full sentences, or either through formatted writing (like both col and I did). The regions' abbreviations change from version to version, so we'll use those of Realpolitik (just check the option "Names" in the "Map" menu). Be warned that I won't accept any more failure.
Beam, I don't understand what you mean. Rules are clearly stated, I just took the freedom to give one player one chance. The game master is always right. ;) The more complex rules are to be found in the pdf link that you can find in another thread. I think there are one or two very rare situations which aren't quite clear, ie. for which rules vary from version to version, but we won't probably even have to deal with them. Anyone can ask a specific question about the rules in the "presentation and rules" thread, but before the action takes place. I am the only one to have an opinion on a specific case after it takes place in the game.
quote:Originally posted by kryszcztov
Stapel, I think you meant "the order to be corrected to : Fleet from London to North Sea", or I just don't understand anything.Indeed, I edited the post.
quote:As the mistake was pretty obvious, and because this was the 1st turn, I accept the movement order that anarres surely meant......
Beam, I don't understand what you mean. Rules are clearly stated, I just took the freedom to give one player one chance. The game master is always right. ;)
I think at least a majority should agree, or maybe even all. A gamemaster taking the freedom to give a player a chance seems pretty ridiculuous to me.
Beam is right: discussions are annoying and should be avoided. If one of us demands to stick to the rules (thus F (London) holds), it holds. That seems rather obvious to me. Rules are rules.
Let the fleet go to the North Sea - a mistake like that on the first turn can unbalance the whole game.
Col - sneaking some internet time from Victoria, British Columbia.
Socrates
04-04-2004, 21:45
Glad to hear from you, col ! ;) And glad to hear you support my decision, which is anarres going to the North Sea. I totally agree with your comment : if the order is invalid, then his game is screwed, but also ours !!! This will be the last chance for everyone.
This was the game master speaking. [cool]
krys, in the MSN chat I indicated I have not decided yet because the rules stuff should be settled first and you agreed.
If we go the other way around I quit now.
Socrates
05-04-2004, 01:14
Turn 2 hasn't started yet, not before col reappears with a broken leg. So until then, the results for turn 1 are not written in stone. The post in the closed topic can be edited.
As for anarres's issue (TM), well, if you want to have a majority : I support his move to the North Sea, col and Stapel too ; so it only needs anarres to vote for his move to get a majority ! [coool] Do you want 100% ? Well then we'll wait for col...
Until then we can discuss different stuff in the appropriate topics, no problem. I have enough talked about this game these last days, so now it's your turn, players, to speak !! And remember your orders lack a "south coast" in St Petersburg...
In any case, take it easy, people. Please.
tunerica
05-04-2004, 07:55
Do we have a date for when the next orders will be due, or will that be decided once Col returns.
Socrates
05-04-2004, 09:55
People, please read all the posts carefully ! There is a weekly shchedule that I said we will use for all the turns, except this 1st one. col is back on a weekend, I believe, so turn 2 won't start before then. No talking about the game is allowed before I say "turn 2 is open" (in this thread).
So to answer : the next orders will be due during the week after col is back, at the date and time indicated in the schedule, that I will post in the 1st post of the closed topic.
This is how stuff will lok like, if Anarres moev is corrected to North Sea:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/CDZ1_fall_1901.JPG
Socrates
05-04-2004, 22:46
Trying to post a better map in the locked topic, but it doesn't work. :(
Also, next order deadline is : Friday, April 23rd 2004 at 8pm GMT.
Socrates
19-04-2004, 19:09
As everyone knows it, and as seen in the previous post, the game is supposed to be resuming. We have a deadline for orders, and according to our weekly schedule (about which no one complained), discussions should end on Wednesday night (in 48 hours), which isn't so far from now !! The end of discussions deadline isn't meant to be so strict, but once someone has submitted his orders (which he can do as soon as the order-writing timeframe starts, ie. in 48 hours), he isn't supposed to talk to other players.
I hope everyone will make it before Wednesday night, otherwise we'll never get started.
Aslo, please now submit your orders to ERIKK, by CDZ PM.
I'll be online tomorrow night again once I've had some sleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep.
So what is happening here? Krys indicated to me on msm that not everyone was happy with my order change. I can't see any post from Beam either way, so until he says yes or no the game can not continue.
Beam, please say if you want the original order to hold or not, and if anyone else wishes to object to the order change please do so now!
I hold no ill will to anyone who objects - I have clearly broken the rules and it is totally fair to make the rules stick. It's just at the moment I can't conduct any diplo as I don't know where my fleet is! If anyone objects to the order change then my fleet is in London, if not then it's in the North Sea.
Thanks for everyone's input in this, I can't explain how stupid I feel (although it is pretty obvious), but I have to know the decision of the group so I can continue.
anar, confirmation of my PM, no objection if you apply the order London - North Sea.
Whens the next deadline for orders - there has been a delay because I was away and because I wasnt sure about Anarres fleet's position.
Socrates
22-04-2004, 10:49
quote:Originally posted by col
Whens the next deadline for orders - there has been a delay because I was away and because I wasnt sure about Anarres fleet's position.
quote:Originally posted by kryszcztov
Also, next order deadline is : Friday, April 23rd 2004 at 8pm GMT.
And also I told you that by email last night.
[...]
:D
Thanks - Didnt get the email!
PS Happy Birthday!
I did send my moves to Erikk. I can't wait to see the resultls ;)
Socrates
23-04-2004, 08:28
Still haven't sent my orders. I'm waiting for Melifluous to come back. I truely don't what to do about that. There are many options, but I don't want to take a decision myself, all the more as I really don't know what is best.
Well, when strictly following the rules, you should not talk to anyone anyway, after wednessday 8pm (iirc). Then again, I didn't have a chance to chat with Col, so I did so on thursday morning.
Most important on this matter is that you do not seek contact with people that have already written their moves.
When following the moves again, Meli's units will simply hold, if he doesn't do anything.
I don't think that is a problem. It is a known feature in postal diplomacy.
There is also the possibility, someone hides from contact.
In short: continue! Meli can drop in, whenever he feels like it!
I've never come across this 'dont chat once you have sent moves before'. I've always played that comunication at any time is allowed. I really dont see the point in preventing communication. I can conduct useful diplomacy even though I have sent moves - and I am always allowed to send in a second or third set of moves right up to the deadline. The last set received is the valid set.
quote:Originally posted by col
I've never come across this 'dont chat once you have sent moves before'. I've always played that comunication at any time is allowed. I really dont see the point in preventing communication. I can conduct useful diplomacy even though I have sent moves - and I am always allowed to send in a second or third set of moves right up to the deadline. The last set received is the valid set.
That is quite something different than I had in mind.
I simply assumed that SENT = SENT. In that case, it is not too nice when somebody talks to you, after you have sent. As you can't possibly benefit from that, abut the other can. In that case, it might become like a game of poker. Nice in itslef, but a whole different game.
Standard diplo rules, afaik, make a strict difference between the diplo phase and the writing phase.
We should clearly make a point about this: quote:and I am always allowed to send in a second or third set of moves right up to the deadline.
This feature is completely new to me.
The phase rules only apply to face to face dip. Postal and pbem diplo have always had this rule about multiple rule sets. I usually send a provisional set of orders straight away so I dont default then send other sets at diplo proceeds.
Socrates
23-04-2004, 13:10
I mostly agree with Stapel here. First, I think ERIKK and his players can do what they want in their game (rules, schedule...), but I think it'd be better if everyone in every game used the same rules and ways of playing. That's why I wrote "what is important to remember" in that closed topic recently : so as everyone can quickly check how we play. It can be updated, no problem.
As for our game (game 1), I'd really like to play as they say in the manual (!!!) : no more chatting once orders are sent, and no chatting at all before retreat and adjustment orders. All discussions about retreats and adjustments should occur before sending your movement orders in fall ! This is important, and allows for more strategic discussions and surprises.
Actually, I don't want people to send several orders, because :
- you don't need to ; just refrain from PMing until you have talked to everyone and you're sure about your orders ;
- it will lead to more and more confusion for me and ERIKK ; imagine someone really want to change his mind just before/after the deadline : ERIKK/I might not see it (or accept it) ; that last line makes it that the action of sending orders is an official matter, not just write 3 lines for your sole pleasure.
I happen to have accepted a 2nd order set in the other game ; the player sent it quite quickly and well before the deadline, so that's OK. But like anarres's invalid order, this will be the last time for anyone (at least for the players in the other game).
krys, I think we have to discuss this and decide it as a group. I don't think that you should be able to "veto" a group decision on a point of order. Just IMO, but I am interested in what the group thinks. [hmm]
Socrates
23-04-2004, 13:39
Of course. I mostly used stuff like "I'd like to..." in my previous post, so it's mostly my point of view. Too bad that we haven't agreed on such stuff so far, because I clearly stated we would used the manual's rules, unless someone was against some points. These points happen to be written in the manual. I hope someone is following my logic.
Well, people, it's not that late : raise your hand and speak.
Well, I think that:
- once all have sent their order, the results can be processed and posted
- people sent orders only 1 time and people should sent them once they made up their mind. You
should do it as late as possible. What we have seen in game #2 is that the end of the diplo
phase acted as the end of the ordr writing phase...
Therefore:
- I dont care about people talking after the deadline as long as they did not sent their orders.
I know this is against the rules we just set up but those act as guidelines for me. Like in the
Meli case, people can be on business trips etc. Which makes the need for a longer diplo phase
necessary.
Whats the point in an unenforceable rule. How exactly are you going to stop people talking - and more to the point - why? Even if I've sent my orders, I still want to be talking to people.
If someone lies and contacts me to say they havent sent their orders and wants to talk, how do I know what to do? Diplomacy is a game of deceit. The only rule is that you're not allowed to deceive the GM.
Any diplo talk should be allowed any time. Any orders received before the deadline are valid. Each set of orders supercedes any previous set. This has been the rule in the dip world for 40 years!! The printed rules were designed for face to face play, to keep things moving, and were refined for postal and pbem play a long long time ago. Read Richard Sharp's (RIP) Dip book which was published in the 70s and is now available in full form at the Diplomacy Pouch.
tunerica
23-04-2004, 14:36
Here my opinion on the latest topoics:
-I have no problem with submitting multiple sets of orders, as long as they are before the deadline, this gives you a chance to weed out any stupid mistakes that you may have made, however, it will mean that there can never be any early processing of orders.
-I like the idea of discussions running up until the deadline of the orders, whether you have put your orders in or not should not effect this, incidentally if we do take this rule we should take the other as well, that way adjustments can be made based on these late discussions. I just think that because of the nature of the game, with people in all different time zones it can sometimes be hard to get negotiations done (eg. I never got decent discussions with Beam this turn).
-As far as the situation with Melif or any other player not submitting orders on time, I reckon we just follow whatever the rule book says for this, which from the sound of things is that they just all hold.
All that said I will be happy to follow whatever rules are decided. One final thing, it would be easier too I think if we come up with one standard set of rules that will apply to both games.
Then we should force a rule that the Writing Orders phase is a hard one!
Col, I simply never thought of the possibility of sending orders more than once.... That changes a lot. It is indeed beacuse my experience on diplomacy is in face-to-face games.
You have pretty much convinced me. Maybe we should only have a hard time limit for writing orders AND the possibility to send new orders...
quote:Originally posted by col
Orders PMed to Erikk
Me too.
Recieved moves game #1 fall 01
Russia
F Rum - Sev
A Ukr supports F Rum - Sev
A Gal - Vie
F Bot - Swe
France - kryszcztov
[formatted text]
F MID - SPAsc
A PIC - BEL
A PIE - VEN
Germany
A Kie - Hol
F Den - Swe
A Ruh S A Kie - Hol
England
F nth - eng
F nwg - nwy
A yor - lon
Turkey:
A Armenia - Bulgaria
F Black Sea Convoys A Armenia - Bulgaria
A Bulgaria - Greece
Austria
F Tri S A Pie - Ven
A Bud - Rum
A Ser S A Bud - Rum
Italy
...is in anarchy now... :(
Ppl, I am really sorry that I will quit the Diplo 1 game, the good news is that Toasty will be playing Russia instead of me.
The one and only reason I quit has to do with developments in the project I am working atm which make it very difficult to commit to the type of schedule a game like Diplomacy requires and most benefits from. I do not want to play this game at half speed by just posting turns and not being able to spend time in diplo chatting.
Developments in RL are positive so don't worry about that, it also does not mean I won't have time for PBEM's, SG's that put much less pressure on a schedule. They might be a little slower however.
From now on Toasty is the new Tsar and I will support him in the coming days to pick up Diplo 1. Toasty gets a good and challenging heritage looking at the recent moves ;).
quote:Originally posted by Beam
Developments in RL are positive ;).
In other words, Beam's new girlfriend wants him to quit this game. I assume she is worth it [jumpD] .
My A (Arm) should be in Bul.........
Socrates
24-04-2004, 21:48
Well, Beam, I accept Toasty as your replacement. Please try to do the transition together : adjustment phase and the story of your previous negociations. If you don't take care of him, looking at recent moves, I'm afraid Toasty might get toasted... :D
[...]
OK, shame on me, I really wanted to do the joke. [blush2]
It's okay, kryszcztov. Just one of the things that comes with the territory ;). I've got a good amount of experience, so newbies, be warned! *Intimidating pose*
I perfer PM to e-mail. My address is xnkuipersx@wideopenxwest.comx (without the x's, used to avoid spam).
Looking forward to getting to the bargaining table with you all!
Socrates
24-04-2004, 22:53
We usually MSN for negociations. I can't see your MSN address, if you have one. Please indicate how you will handle discussions, other than emails or PMs (really not enough).
I have an old hotmail account. I'll go download MSN...begrudgingly.
MACS RULE!
My MSN address is in my profile.
Toasty - you know you can register msm with any address you want? You don't need hotmail...
adjustement orders:
Turkey:
Build A Constantinople
Build A Ankara
Austria:
+ A BUD
FRANCE
+ F BRE
+ F MAR
Germany
A Munich
A Berlin
England:
Fleet in Liverpool
Russia Builds:
A(Mos)
Socrates
25-04-2004, 21:26
The 1st year is now done, and I think Meli won't come back to the game, unfortunately. I think it's wise to make an announcement for a new player. Unless Meli does show up in this topic in the coming days, anyone can take the spot. Italy needs a good ruler !!
I also think we should maybe delay a turn or get a replacement now. Leaving it even for spring is waaay too unbalancing. :(
The curse of diplo games. Someone dropping out is soo unbalancing.
quote:Originally posted by col
The curse of diplo games. Someone dropping out is soo unbalancing.
Not too much of a problem. The game of diplomacy has many ways to re-balance itself!
Easy for Turkey to say about Italy. [:p]
Re:balance.
Yeah - in a sense thats true. Diplo has always been about the balance of power. If one person gains they get ganged up on until the balance reestablishes. Then alliances shift and change until someone else climbs to the top of the mountain.
Gee I wish I could understand anything about all this diplo nonsense...[:p]
Socrates
29-04-2004, 23:03
I also wish you could, Sky. Maybe one day I'll kick your ass in this game, who knows ? [evil]
Due to Italy's void, we have to delay our game for one week. I hope some of you will try to find someone to play as Italy. It also appears many people have a lot of work these days. :D I don't know about you, but I have barely chatted this week. I think I'm taking the right decision, but if anyone has something to say, please stand up.
I agree with you 100% krys, I was going to suggest this myself.
Let us all ask around people we know, we desperatly need to fill the void!
Same. I think a delay is necessary.
I recieved moves from two players. They will set on hold.
By the way: I saw Mel was online on CDZ two or three days ago! Didn't he respond on your mails Krys?
I dont't see why we should delay. Players missing is a known feature in postal diplomacy. Italy is already screwed, so who would like to fill the void anyway?
Once again, we do not need a new player per se.
BTW: I will be in Camemberia from may 8th - 15th
So, on friday 14th may, I won't be able to post moves.
So? did we all send orders?
No, only 2 were recieved, the rest followed the things said above...
This is really annoying me.
For some reason I do not understand, there seems to be a mutual semi-agreement on a delay. I don't see the point of it. If someone backs-off, he backs-off.
Wake up from your dreams: Italy is out. Nobody likes the idea of taking over a bleeding country.
Thus: send your spring 01 moves and let the game go on!
Socrates
03-05-2004, 10:45
Well, I agree that Italy will be void for the rest of the game. We won't delay the game more now. Both games will run on the same schedule from now on (we're both on turn 3). Thus the next deadline (and it will apply) is set on next Friday. Unless someone shows up...
I feel bad to have 2 players out after 1 or 2 turns, and 1 not replaced. Not to mention that, on a personal sidenote, I feel like I'm more screwed than advantaged by a voided Italy. Why do administrative matters always screw me first ? [cry]
(I intend to wait for Friday because it's better for a weekly schedule, and there was very few chatting sessions last week, and not only for me, it seems. From now on, we won't delay the game anymore, unless someone has to go away for a week ; and too bad if the game is screwed, I think I've already put too much effort in that, and so I won't care.)
We have had plenty of time to chat. Why not send them now?
Because we may as well stick to the schedule, do you propose changing the scedule now Stapel?
quote:Originally posted by anarres
Because we may as well stick to the schedule, do you propose changing the scedule now Stapel?
I seem to be the only that does NOT want to change the schedule ;) .
So: deadline for writing orders is friday!
Socrates
05-05-2004, 09:00
Cheer up ! I have found our new Italian player : Loulong, a French player from CFC, who has just signed up here (I have nothing to do with that registration BTW). He said he likes this game very much, and is tempted to play as Italy, even if it'll be hard. Anyway there will be other games in the future, I hope.
I'm waiting for him to post here and say "hello". The schedule won't be changed.
Hello !
Well it DOES look bad. Maybe I won't stay here much longer (Italy I mean not me because I will stay till the end !!!).
I think I have put all your adresses on MSN and I even chatted briefly with Stapel.
Now Austria, France, if you don't want the game too unbalancing, you know what you need to do :D, right ?
I am open for discussion and will update my profile with MSN adress ASAP. Erik, I might have a better program for you (probably more for another game though).
Loulong, find me on msm tomorrow daytime if you can, or PM me if I am not around. :)
To everyone: find me or (probably more likely) PM me if you want contact before orders are given tomorrow...
Hi folks,
I wont be around to post the results this evening. I think I might be able to do at at 01:00/02:00 CET (sat) if I am capable to do it. Else, it will be around 11:00 CET (on sathurday morning). Sorry for this! Needless to say I wil only prost the orders that were sent before the deadline on friday! ;)
Erik
Can someone else step in? This is important IMO since it affects the weekends deadlines...
barbu1977
07-05-2004, 13:27
quote:Originally posted by anarres
Can someone else step in? This is important IMO since it affects the weekends deadlines...
I don't mind doing this. I do need from Erikk the orders already sent or a new set of orders from everybody.
ok, that sounds cool! col will need to be PM'd to tell him to send to you as well, since his mother is ill and he may not read this thread.
he said he would pm to erikk, but if you pm col first i am sure he will send to you instead...
thanks btw! are you familiar with the schedule for orders and posting them, etc?
barbu1977
07-05-2004, 13:38
I've seen the schedule on the thread by Kryszcztov. For the posting, I'll just have to put them here. That should not be to hard...
I'll PM COL
Pm'ed the moves I already had to Barbu. The rest should pm him this turn!
Already Pmed my moves to Erikk - at work now and leaving to see mother in a few mins.
barbu1977
07-05-2004, 19:04
Waiting for Russia, Austria and Turkey...
This doesn't look good for Tunerica, since it is now 4 AM in australia.
WTF?
I have sent my moves more than a week ago!
barbu1977
07-05-2004, 19:35
quote:Originally posted by Stapel
WTF?
I have sent my moves more than a week ago!
I have not got them from Erikk. If it is the same with Austia and Russia, you'll have to wait until he gets back. I'll PM him all the moves you sent me.
Didn't ERIKK send you any moves barbu?
barbu1977
07-05-2004, 19:41
He sent me Col's and LouLong's
I tought this was all he got.
Oh well, at least you offered and tried! :)
I guess we'll have to wait for erikk in case he forgot to send russia's or austrias...
barbu1977
07-05-2004, 20:35
quote:Originally posted by Stapel
I did resend.
Yeap, but you are playing Turkey in this game ;)
We are missing Austria and Russia
Weird....
Austria did send his turns too. Erikk told so in this thread.
tunerica
08-05-2004, 03:17
Yep I sent my moves to Erikk ages ago, will resend them to Barbu now.
barbu1977
08-05-2004, 05:19
Here we go...
Diplo CDZ #1 - Spring 1902 movement
Austria:
a ser - tri
a rum h
a bud h
f tri - adr
Russia:
A(Mos)-Ukr
A(Vie)-Gal
A(Ukr)-Rum
F(Sev) S A(Ukr)-Rum
F(GoB)-Bal
Turkey:
A Ankara - Armenia
F Black Sea Supports A Ankara - Armenia
A Bulgaria Supports A Rumania
A Constantinople Supports A Bulgaria
A Greece Hold
England:
F English Channel Convoys A London - Picardy
F Liverpool - Irish Sea
A London - Picardy
F Norway - North Sea
France :
F BRE S A BEL - PIC
F MAR - SPAsc
F SPAsc - MID
A BEL - PIC
A VEN - PIE
Germany:
A Mun - Bur
A Hol - Bel
A Ruh S A Hol - Bel
F Den - Swe
F Ber holds
Italy:
A Tus - Ven
F Tyrr stands
Socrates
08-05-2004, 11:44
Results posted !
A big big LOL to both col and anarres, who continue to betray me. As I have already said, it's not only a matter of number of units, but also a matter of strong position (in which I'm far from being the leader). But well, they have their own reasons... [crazyeye] Damn, why didn't I build in Paris ? It made no difference as to their moves.
I figured col would take Bel, what was i meant to do? [crazyeye]
Socrates
08-05-2004, 12:37
quote:Originally posted by anarres
I figured col would take Bel, what was i meant to do? [crazyeye]
Lol. Not saying you were going to Belgium ? Anyway, I was aware that my army could be annihilated in Belgium, and I'm only too glad to have ordered my support from Brest, knowing your move to Picardy was a strong possibility. Don't pretend you're a newbie anymore, it just doesn't work in this game. ;)
tunerica
13-05-2004, 09:04
Are orders still due Friday evening? Cause isn't Stapel away at the moment.
Are we delaying a week and waiting for Bas (like game 2) ??
Socrates
14-05-2004, 21:06
Yes I think we're delaying the game to next week, since Stapel hasn't replied here yet. I haven't sent any orders to ERIKK, and I don't think many of you did it.
Hah, wow, I saw the results from last week and panicked...I was pretty sure the game had been delayed but was afraid I'd been misinformed.
quote:Originally posted by Stapel
I am back from NOW!
Sent your fucking rertreat orders for game #2 ASAP. Fall 02 moves are due friday night.
6 orders in, only anarres is missing!
EDIT
All provisional moves are in but I will post around 23:00 CET or a bit later, sorry be back later! [blush2]
Here are the fall 1902 orders:
Germany
A Bur - Gas
A Ruh - Bur
A Bel S English A Lon - Pic
F Swe holds
A ber holds
Turkey:
A Armenia - Sevastopol
F Black Sea Supports A Armenia - Sevastopol
A Bulgaria - Serbia
A Constantinople - Bulgaria
A Greece Supports A Bulgaria - Serbia
Austria
A TRI - VIE
A BUD S A TRI - VIE
A RUM S A CON - SEV
F ADR - VEN
Italy
F Tyr - Tun
A Ven - Trieste
France
F BRE S F MID
F MID S F BRE
F SPAsc - POR
A PIC - PAR
A PIE - MAR
Russia
F(Bal)-Swe
A(Gal) S A(Ukr)-Rum
F(Sev) S A(Ukr)-Rum
A(Mos) S F(Sev) H
A(Ukr)-Rum
England
F English Channel Convoys A London - Picardy
F Irish Sea Supports F English Channel
A London - Picardy
F North Sea - Norway
tunerica
22-05-2004, 03:31
What a crap set of turns. Shafted in both games, I should have known not to trust the evil Turkish backstabbers and as for Italy, what the? I told you I would move to Ven as security, oh well. Things are about to get very interesting, for good or bad.
Only two build orders in yet. Dealine closes in 20 mins...
Do I need build orders when I can't build anything? :(
I only recieved these orders:
Russia
Build F(StP) SC
Italy
A Rom
F Naples
Dunno if any other orders are possible btw! ;)
Socrates
23-05-2004, 20:02
quote:Originally posted by anarres
Do I need build orders when I can't build anything? :(
Well, you can't blame me for not gaining anything this turn... There were plenty of opportunities in fall 1902, but you decided to bypass them. Germany is a wise guy, and now has 7 units (if he sends his build orders !!). You only have 4. I have fleets, and will use them to block you. You will learn to trust the right guy. :D Maybe next time...
Oh BTW, no one can really harm Germany right now ; do you think it could be good to think about allying against col or not ? I'm not saying this for my own sake, I say this for those who think they will last longer. Because as for me, I'm doomed, my fate lies in col and anar's hands.
Socrates
23-05-2004, 22:20
OK, some admin comments...
First, Toasty, look at the map closer : you can't build a unit this turn ! [crazyeye] You won Rumania, but lost Vienna.
Second, col and Stapel, I think you must encounter difficulties in RL, but then if it prevents you from playing according to the schedule or even dropping a line in this thread, you surely care less about the results of this game than about your RL. Too bad the game is screwed once more. I won't let this game stall further, according to Stapel's wish (!), and so won't accept delayed orders (I waited 3 more hours). All of this, unless someone stands up and wants something else to be done. After all we're a democracy. But as the executive guy, I have to do stuff at times they are decided.
I'm open to any demand, though. And please understand that the results aren't definitive once they are first posted (see 1st post in the results thread).
quote:Originally posted by kryszcztov
Second, col and Stapel, I think you must encounter difficulties in RL, but then if it prevents you from playing according to the schedule or even dropping a line in this thread, you surely care less about the results of this game than about your RL.
My mother has cancer and my wife is ill. You bet RL takes precedence. Get a life.
Socrates
23-05-2004, 23:03
I understand completely, col. Don't worry about me (if you did ?), I also have a RL, and each day I'm getting less and less addicted to Internet stuff. But I meet my commitment without any problem though.
I can't decide what's your future in this game without your opinion. At the moment you don't get your builds. I just wait and then I post. Simple. Please indicate what you want to do.
I am happy to follow the rules. I didnt get my build orders in on time so I dont get them. Weekends are quite difficult for me at present.
But if you are allowing them then
F Kie
A Mun
A bizar coincedence... My mother will be hospitalized this morning. She will be operated for cancer (too).
I simply didn't get a chance to connect myself to the internet until just now. That has nothing to do with interest whatsoever. I think it goes a bit too far to enter a internet bar or so. Weekends are simply hard to plan for me.
As for the build orders: When results are published on friday night, it simply is not always possible to see them (and thus react) before sunday night. Quite some difference with not sending orders when having a whole week of time!
But if you are allowing them then
A Con
Maybe we should change the schedule for builds to monday morning instead of Sunday evening?
Seems fair to me. A better option than being less strict, I guess.
Socrates
24-05-2004, 10:13
Yes, maybe a change in the schedule would be good. I also feel we now have too much time in the week for movement orders. I'll think about it this week. I accept both orders (col and Stapel). If someone doesn't want them, please speak up. I'll change it tonight in the results topic.
From an external point of view, it might look that we aren't strict enough and that it gets a little messy. Please all remind (players and lurkers) that this game (and the other one) is more likely to act as an experimental game (as for admin affairs !).
tunerica
24-05-2004, 10:27
Sounds all good to me. One less thing to worry about over the weekend.
Some of you are not replying to my PM's, but I will wait and get my orders in on time (in 38 minutes time).
We are missing Col's orders again and will wait a bit. I might have deleted them or Col forgot to sent. Anyway, he did sent his game2 orders so there might be a misunderstanding. Stay tuned!
Socrates
28-05-2004, 20:31
I'd like to warn every player that things have changed a bit, so please re-read the stickied topic !!! Basically, all games now have the same rules. Movement and retreat orders are to be sent before 20:00 GMT (unlike 18:00 GMT as before), like in ERIKK's game. Please note the new schedule for adjustment orders : Monday, 12:00 GMT. Please understand what "GMT" means (see that topic).
I'd also like to say that we're not happy to see some players missing after the deadlines, and this at almost every deadline. We'll continue to accept delayed set of orders in the near future, but if it continues all the time, then we (ERIKK and me) might think of being more strict. I hope you'll send them all on time now. And you're welcome to send your orders day(s) before the deadline too.
As always, if anyone isn't happy with all this stuff in this post, please stand up and speak up. [goodjob]
Raw orders spring 1903:
England:
F English Channel - Mid-Atlantic Ocean
F Irish Sea Supports F English Channel - Mid-Atlantic Ocean
F Norway - St Petersburg(sc)
A Picardy - Brest
France :
F BRE - GAS
F MID - BRE
F POR - SPAsc
A MAR - BOU
A PAR S F BRE - GAS
Austria:
F VEN - ADR
A BUD - TRI
A VIE - BUD
Turkey:
A Armenia - Sevastopol
F Black Sea Convoys A Constantinople - Rumania
A Bulgaria Supports A Constantinople - Rumania
A Constantinople - Rumania
A Greece Supports A Serbia
A Serbia Supports A Constantinople - Rumania
Italy:
F Apu - Ionian sea
A Trieste - Tyrol
A Rom - Venice
F Tun - Western Med
Russia:
F(Bal)-Pru
A(Mos)-War
A(Gal)-Bud
A(Rum) S A(Gal)-Bud
F(Sev) S A(Rum) H
Germany:
A Belgium, S
A Berlin, S
A Burgundy - Marseilles
A Gascony Supports A Burgundy - Marseilles
F Kiel - Denmark
A Munich - Burgundy
F Sweden, S
In the result page I saw an (i) after Naples- Ionian, and that the movement did not work out. What does it mean ? Impossible ?
Aren't they in contact ?
Socrates
28-05-2004, 21:37
ERIKK received "F Apu - Ionian sea", which is invalid, I'm afraid. :( BTW, I edited the orders, because I wrote "BOU" (for Bourgogne) instead of "BUR" : I reckon my mistake and invalid the order, though it luckily leads to no consequence. :)
There are 2 retreats to consider : me in the Mid Atlantic, and Toasty in Rumania ; Toasty, be aware of all the rules applying to retreating/disbanding. Orders are to be posted tomorrow night (for Europe).
As "usual", though it hadn't come up until now, I'll edit the map in the latest post inside the results topic, so as to keep only 3 maps for each year.
Arghhh [aargh] against myself.
On the other hand, aren't you a little too strict on it. I agree destinations should be mentionned clearly but in the case of origins, I believe it is easy for the game master to see there was a pb and cotact the player or correct it himself... or am I asking too much ? [}:)]
No, in diplomacy people can deliberatly write invalid orders for non-excisted units, like F APU - ION. I guess I could have mentioned the Bur/bou thing but I did not as I did not saw it. Also, I am only the person who collects the orders, not the one who should verify them...
Norway to St Petersberg is illegal? [eek]
Also - if I try to move to Brest, and Krys also tries to move to brest, how come he can do it? I am a little confused at the finer points here, including the retreat thing after Krys' move to BRE. [???]
At a guess I'd say because its ambiguous. Fleets are supposed to specify which coast , north or south. Of course since norway can only move to NC, often people dont bother - but some judges are fussy. I'd appeal that one.
Well, since it is an SC I would like very much for it to be allowed!
I copied the text from Realpolitik, I would have thought it would get it right. :(
Retreats:
Russia: A(Rum)-Bud
France: F MID r NAT
What is going on with my move to St Petersberg?
Does anyone know why it says (retreat) after F MID : BRE for France??
Can ANYONE help me!!!?!?!?! I have no idea what is happening now. [cry]
- I replied my view on the StP matter in a PM.
- come to MSN, then I can tell you
F MID (is MAO) bounces in BRE. But your unit moves supported into MID, so it has to retreat from MID. It can only retreat to NAT or SPA because you came from ENG and it already wanted to BRE.
Another strange thing happened in this turn:
F POR - SPAsc failed according to RealPolitik but the move was legal. It interpretes it as F POR - SPA. The right spelling is F POR - SPA(sc), this moves succeeds. He corrected it of course as this was no issue at all. It is always wise to check your moves in RealPolitik: write them in a .txt file -> load text -> resolve -> commit.
Names from RealPolitik manual:
EMS or Eas = Eastern Mediterranean Sea
WMS or Wes = Western Mediterranean Sea
MAO or Mid = Mid-Atlantic Ocean
Nth = North Sea
Nwg or Nrg = Norwegian Sea
NAO or Nat = North Atlantic Ocean
NAf = North Africa
Nor or Nwy = Norway
Lvp or Lpl = Liverpool
Lvn = Livonia
Tyr or Trl = Tyrolia
Tys or Tyn = Tyrrhenian Sea
Crs = Corsica
Bot or GoB = Gulf of Bothnia
Lyo or GoL = Gulf of Lyon
StP or St Pete = St Petersburg (note lack of period)
In Aberration:
ebs East Black Sea
ems Eastern Mediterranean Sea
gob Gulf of Bothnia
gol Gulf of Lyon
pal Palermo
plm Palma Sea
nao North Atlantic Ocean
nor Norway
nmk Norromark
nth North Sea
nwg Norwegian Sea
tyr Tyrol
tys Tyrrhenian Sea
wbs West Black Sea
wms Western Mediterranean Sea
Full name means
North Atlantic Ocean
Mid-Atlantic Ocean
versus
Mid-Atlantic
North Atlantic
Edit: Apparently I *did* say (sc), although I was certain it didn't.
In fact I always make my moves in Realpolitik and then ocopy/pastet the text from the orders window.
I am amazed, and shamed that I could have missed something like that.
Fuck it...
Hmm - providing orders are unambiguous, they should be accepted. It is not the players responsibility to make their moves conform to RealPolitik. There are other judges with other syntaxes! It is the GMs responsiblity to translate the orders into the required syntax.
col - see my edit! I was totally mistaken. Apparently I did say (sc), in which case there is no ambiguity.
fuckfuckfuckfuckfuckfuck
Anarres - your set of moves couldnt have been worse than mine last turn :(
I blame flu and meeting the deadline by 5 mins
and being useless.
I was making a general comment - and as far as I know the GMs have been pretty flexible in their interpretations so far!
Socrates
30-05-2004, 11:27
OK, I come back.
About what happened with my fleet in Mid-Atlantic : I see nothing wrong, I don't know what bugs anarres at all.
About "SPAsc" instead of "SPA(sc)" : Everything can change, but so far, how to write orders in formatted text was clearly stated in that stickied topic. And it was also clearly stated that RealPolitik isn't our God. Period. Speak up if you disagree.
About "STPsc" : it's funny because col was the one to say that players may write invalid orders just to blur other players... Of course common sense tells that anarres wanted to make for the north coast ? But who knows ? I don't see how I can be flexible on this subject now and in the future. I need some advice here, because otherwise players will always ask for both black and white, depending on the situation...
I also have to copy all the region names that we should use (in formatted text) in the stickied topic, but the pdf link is broken at the moment. :( I also have some problems dealing with real abbreviations, so I'd like to have them there. Does anyone have the pdf on his HD ?
I know the feeling col - we had a major release of our product on Friday (that was actually delayed at the last minute).
I am the release manager here and have been responsible for getting this sorted. Working 12 hour days and weekends and trying to get my moves done on release day is just plain crazy. [crazyeye]
Next time I will simply have to make time to check over what realpolitik writes. Personally the Friday 6pm deadline is a killer for me, since Friday at 7pm (local) is when all our deadlines fall.
krys, fuck my moves. I made a mistake (using realpolitik), and I have to pay the price.
I was confused at the (retreat) after your move to BRE, and all I needed was for someone to point out that you had to retreat from MAO since you bounced from BRE and I moved to MAO supported. ERIKK did this, there is no problem (and nothing was bugging me) - just a noob getting advice.
Regarding my illeagal move - in an ideal situation ERIKK would have asked me if I was sure my move was correct, and I would have checked and amended it. Since ERIKK is not doing anything but taking and posting orders there is no way for this to happen, and I would not expect ERIKK to take on this additional responsibility.
quote:Originally posted by kryszcztov
OK, I come back.
About what happened with my fleet in Mid-Atlantic : I see nothing wrong, I don't know what bugs anarres at all.Is already solved. No problems here.
quote:Originally posted by kryszcztov
About "SPAsc" instead of "SPA(sc)" : Everything can change, but so far, how to write orders in formatted text was clearly stated in that stickied topic. And it was also clearly stated that RealPolitik isn't our God. Period. Speak up if you disagree.I think we should use RP orders, as we use it post maps and stuff. I feel the editing each turn to get them right in RP is overhead for us. Also people should check their orders in RP for their own sake, to avoid making error like your BUR/BOU...
quote:Originally posted by kryszcztov
About "STPsc" : it's funny because col was the one to say that players may write invalid orders just to blur other players... Of course common sense tells that anarres wanted to make for the north coast ? But who knows ? I don't see how I can be flexible on this subject now and in the future. I need some advice here, because otherwise players will always ask for both black and white, depending on the situation...It is totally clear this sc/nc error is an error we cant be flexible about. Anarres feels this way too and I am sure Col does too.
quote:Originally posted by kryszcztov
I also have to copy all the region names that we should use (in formatted text) in the stickied topic, but the pdf link is broken at the moment. :( I also have some problems dealing with real abbreviations, so I'd like to have them there. Does anyone have the pdf on his HD ?The rules can be found in here: http://www.diplomacy-archive.com/diplomacy_rules.htm
quote:Originally posted by anarres
Next time I will simply have to make time to check over what realpolitik writes. Personally the Friday 6pm deadline is a killer for me, since Friday at 7pm (local) is when all our deadlines fall.
We edited the schedule this friday in order to get the 2 games alike:
Weekly standard schedule :
- Monday, after results are posted : turn starts ;
- Friday, 20:00 : deadline for movement orders ;
- Friday, after 20:00 : results are posted on CDZ ;
- Saturday, 20:00 : deadline for retreat orders ;
- Saturday, after 20:00 : retreats are posted on CDZ ;
- Monday, 12:00 : deadline for adjustment orders (falls) ;
- Monday, after 12:00 : adjustments are posted on CDZ (falls), turn ends, next turn starts...
ALL TIMES GMT!!! link: http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1605
quote:Originally posted by anarres
Regarding my illeagal move - in an ideal situation ERIKK would have asked me if I was sure my move was correct, and I would have checked and amended it. Since ERIKK is not doing anything but taking and posting orders there is no way for this to happen, and I would not expect ERIKK to take on this additional responsibility.I can do this but it will be on my own initiative as it is not partof my job.
I'm sure in this situation that if Anarres ordered his fleet to StP sc then its tough but thats not ambiguous and I agree with its rejection.
There are situations where someone orders a fleet to Spain for example and its obvious they can only move to one place, it should be accepted.
I wish I hadnt made the comment about writing invalid orders - but it IS a well known strategy. 99% of the time though, its just someone making a mistake. But fair enough, accurate players deserve to do better. I managed to attack and support with the wrong armies through rushing - but thats all part of the ebb and flow of the game. Krys looked down and out - but with good defence and inept attacking and he's back in the game!
ERIKK - the new scedule sounds great to me! Now I should always be able to get home and do my orders without rushing. :)
Socrates
30-05-2004, 12:14
Just edited the results latest post : my fleet moves to the North Atlantic, and Toasty's army is annihilated, due to an impossible order (though I told him in this very topic to carefully look at the rules about retreating).
I also edited the stickied topic once again : I added 2 links for the ruleset we use (for all games !! ERIKK said so). And I added all the abbreviations used in the game, so that everyone can quickly have a look at them. I suggest that everyone saved the stickied topic on his HD for even quicker reference, and this each time it is updated.
I beg everyone to read the whole stickied topic, so as to refresh their minds on some sensitive subjects. The deadlines have changed. :)
As always, people who disagree on a certain subject are welcome to speak up.
Hi folks,
I wont be around to process the results for game #1 this weekend, I will be gone from friday morning till sunday evening. Maybe someone else can please step in?
barbu1977
31-05-2004, 19:01
quote:Originally posted by ERIKK
Hi folks,
I wont be around to process the results for game #1 this weekend, I will be gone from friday morning till sunday evening. Maybe someone else can please step in?
I don't mind to step in. The retreats orders may be a little a couple hours late as my saturday is pretty busy. If nobody minds...
Woohoo!
The mistakes of Italy (ordering a non-existing fleet + not ordering his existing fleet) and Russia (ordering an impossible move) are good for me :)
Even seen from a neutral point of view, I think all dicisions are right.
An advice to all:
Use RealPolitik for your orders. Copy them, paste them in .txt, resolve & commit orders, check if things are ok, paste .txt in PM.
All three mistakes (Toasty's, LouLong's and Anarres' would NOT have been made when doing so).
Yes, I never resolve orders in realpolitik, I guess I will now...
barbu1977, that would be great.
Thanks Barbu!
To all; please sent your stuff for game #1 fall 1903 (moves, retreat and builds) to Barbu!
Erik
barbu1977
04-06-2004, 20:03
60 minutes left. Waiting for France, Russia and England
Socrates
04-06-2004, 20:32
Good. :) I thought you were already posting, but fortunately you got the right time.
Well, no England yet ? As it's the 2nd time in a row in a critical situation for me, I make the public announcement that I won't accept negociations on Friday in the next turns anymore (unless very quick details...), because it has lead to misunderstanding and unreachability due to Internet communication... And it makes me think about the game and wait for answers from opponents where I could just enjoy the last day before results are posted.
Yes, Fridays are annoying these days. [}:)]
barbu1977
04-06-2004, 21:45
OK, Still missing Russia and England.
After talking with Krys, i'll post moves around 5 AM GMT with NMR if nececary. If any opposition, please post here.
barbu1977
05-06-2004, 07:55
Since no objections have been made, here are the results with a NMR for England:
Turkey:
A Armenia - Sevastopol
F Black Sea Supports A Armenia - Sevastopol
A Bulgaria Supports A Rumania
A Greece - Serbia
A Rumania Supports A Serbia - Budapest
A Serbia - Budapest
Italy
F Naples - Ionian sea
F WesternMed S (French) F NAT - MidAtlantic
A Venice H
A Tyrol S A Venice H
AUSTRIA
ADR - ION
TRI H
VIE H
Germany:
A Belgium Hold
A Berlin Hold
A Burgundy - Paris
F Denmark - Baltic Sea
A Munich Hold
F Sweden - Gulf of Bothnia
France :
F GAS - BRE
F NAT - MID
F SPAsc S NAT - MID
A MAR - BUR
A PAR S MAR - BUR
Russia
F(Sev)-Rum
A(Gal) S F(Sev)-Rum
A(War)-Ukr
F(Pru)-Liv
England:
No moves received
Oh well, I missed the deadline. :(
No worries though, you definitely did the right thing in carrying on. :)
Socrates
05-06-2004, 13:09
I can't understand it, anarres. And I really hope it's not one of those other tricks as well (but I don't believe it anyway). The rules are clear (page 18, Civil Disorder) : if a player fails to submit his orders, dislodged units are disbanded ; thus, the English fleet in Mid Atlantic is gone. There is one retreat : the German army in Burgundy.
I'd like to add that, knowing that anarres had missed the deadline, what could have prevented me from changing my (friendly) orders and attacking Liverpool ? If we're waiting for someone to submit his orders, I think it's unfair to prevent other people to change theirs too. So I think I need to talk to ERIKK about this issue, and with you all too : I think that announcing in these topics that someone is missing hurts the game. Maybe the orders receiver should not say anything and post when he feels too much time has elapsed, or something like that. The debate is open (and if we could debate on that in the "how to play" topic (for both games).
About the game itself : well, with so many orders missing, the game is turning into a great non-sense. :( I should have had a hard time this year, and I just recovered where I shouldn't have. Russia should be happy to still have 3 units. And now to the new stuff : Stapel as Turkey is currently eating everyone at once, winning 3 regions this year. Surely, Russia, Austria and Italy (but that is partly due to Meli) have messed so much, and didn't see the emerging power of Turkey. Stapel is already halfway to victory (9 regions, needs 18 to win ; 34 total).
I agree Krys - NMRs have really spoilt this game. I guess thats a fact of life these days.
As for changing orders, I guess anyone can change orders up to the deadline. Of course you didnt KNOW Anarres had missed the deadline until we reached the deadline and of course its then too late to change orders. I dont think there should be public posts stating that some players havent submitted orders before the deadline elapses otherwise folk will change their orders. IMO a PM or email reminder should be made rather than a public statement.
barbu1977
06-06-2004, 00:20
German Retreat
Bur retreats to Ruhr.
barbu1977
07-06-2004, 13:28
Still waiting for build orders. PM have been sent.
I sent build orders to ERIKK! [lol]
I've resent them, even though I didn't get a PM. Am I going mad or don't I get another build now I have 4SC's and 3 units?
Socrates
07-06-2004, 14:30
Yes, anarres, you lost a unit due to civil disorder + dislodgement. But now of course you miss a unit, and can add one.
barbu, I think it's not worth saying "orders still missing anymore". Just don't post public posts about orders, even after the deadline. Just send a PM to the game master about that (which should be cool enough not to send another orders set).
barbu1977
08-06-2004, 03:07
Here are the retreats.
england:
I would like a fleet in London please.
Germany:
germany builds army Kiel
Turkey:
Build F Constantinople
Build F Smyrna
Build A Ankara
Austria:
No Moves received
P.S. Don't forget Erikk is back on duty next week.
hehehehehehe!
Things look good!
quote:Originally posted by kryszcztov
Surely, Russia, Austria and Italy (but that is partly due to Meli) have messed so much, and didn't see the emerging power of Turkey. Stapel is already halfway to victory (9 regions, needs 18 to win ; 34 total).
quote:Originally posted by ColI agree Krys - NMRs have really spoilt this game. I guess thats a fact of life these days.
May I remind you that both Russia and Austria never missed a turn! In round one, I simply screwed Russia, by moving into the black sea, and moving to Armenia. At the time, Russia (Beam) and I agreed not to move to Bla. I also told Austria (Tunerica) I would screw Russia. This way, I had Tunerioca's trust to smash Russia together. At the rigth moment, I screwed Austria. At this point, only a very very strong immediate cooperation between Italy, Russia (now played by Toasty) could stop me. They didn't do so :D
The only luck I had, was Italy not threatening Greece at anytime. But that didn't mkae too much of a difference.
Italy is often a key Turkish enemy. Being able to ignore that gave you a big advantage ;)
Italy and England have really messed up the situation in the west.
quote:Originally posted by col
Italy is often a key Turkish enemy. Being able to ignore that gave you a big advantage ;)
Italy and England have really messed up the situation in the west.
yeah,
BTW: I never succeeded in conducting any diplo with Italy.......
tunerica
09-06-2004, 04:27
My problem this game was the attitude of Italy early in the game, in that, they either wanted to fight, or didn't feel like putting moves in. This led to me putting too much effort into Italy (my fault though really). Ended up being friends with Turkey because Stapel was the one that I was able to talk to on MSN, whereas with Beam, was only confusing email diplomacy. And then as Stapel said he screwed me at the right time. I was too busy trying to take care of Russia units threatening my territories. Tried to make friends with Russia after was screwed over by Turkey, and was going to do more for him than I expected from him (because I tried to go against him previously), but he would have nothing of it, seems that may have been a bad decision on Russia's part.
As for the future, I reckon Germany has just as good a chance as Turkey of doing well, but that depend greatly on how well myself, Italy and Russia can cooperate.
8.5 hours before end of deadline:
Only 3 out of 4 have sent moves yet
In the bad scenario I will post the moves 1 or 2 hours after the end of the deadline.
ERIKK, I thought you weren't meant to be posting who had sent turns in and who not. [hmm]
Socrates
11-06-2004, 11:14
Yeah I second that. We're still not sure of what to do after the deadline, but before I think everyone agrees : no more public post. If you can delete your post if you agree too, that's cool.
What's wrong with a profissional move order? Anybody can sent a dummy... But OK, I wil editd the post.
What's wrong with posting orders ;) ?
Because they weren't there, just got them this morning from Toasty.
England:
F Irish Sea - English Channel
F London - North Sea
F Norway - Sweden
A Picardy Supports A Burgundy
Germany:
F Baltic Sea convoys A Berlin - St Petersburg
A Belgium Supports A Munich - Burgundy
A Berlin - St Petersburg
F Gulf of Bothnia Convoys A Berlin - St Petersburg
A Kiel - Berlin
A Munich - Burgundy
A Ruhr Supports A Munich - Burgundy
Italy:
A Tyr - Mun
A Ven S A Tri H
F Naples - Ionian sea
F Western Med - Tyrrhenian sea
France :
F BRE - PIC
F MID - NAT
F SPAsc - MID
A BUR - BEL
A PAR S F BRE - PIC
Austria:
A VIE S RUSSIAN A GAL - BUD
A TRI S RUSSIAN A GAL - BUD
Turkey:
A Ankara - Smyrna
F Black Sea - Constantinople
A Budapest Supports A Serbia
A Bulgaria Supports A Rumania
F Constantinople - Aegean Sea
A Rumania - Ukraine
A Serbia Supports A Budapest
A Sevastopol Supports A Rumania - Ukraine
F Smyrna - Eastern Mediterranean
Russia:
A(Gal)-Bud
F(Pru)-Lvn
A(War)-Mos
Hey guys, I'm terribly sorry, but after being late so many turns I'm just convinced I don't have time for this game.
If you can find a replacement, that would be great. I'll play it out until someone pops up, though.
Game #1 1904 retreats
France :
A BUR r MAR
Turkey :
A BUD r RUM
Russia :
A(Ukr) RETREAT Mos
Hi all!
I did send (profissional) moves for next friday, and also possible retreats/builds/removes (I hope).
I will leave friday for Portugal.
I will be back on july 5th.
I do think I can manage to acces the internet, but I am not sure.
Cheers,
Bas Stapel
Socrates
15-06-2004, 20:46
OK, noted. I hope you'll be able to play, otherwise state you can't as soon as possible. Enjoy your holiday (?), I think you're going for the Euro tournament ? Well, Netherlands isn't going so well after a 1st half. ;) (please don't reply to that here, you'll win 2-1, that's for sure !)
I am missing the Russian moves. The rest is in in time.
kryszcztov, you tell me what to do.
Socrates
19-06-2004, 00:26
Well, Toasty promised to play until a replacement was found. I asked Beam but he doesn't want to. I've just PMed Toasty. Let's wait until tomorrow. If we don't hear from him by tomorrow in the afternoon, I consider him out of the game, and the Russian units don't move. Of course no other moves will be allowed. Maybe it could be a good idea to post an ad in the other game's topic ?
barbu1977
19-06-2004, 08:01
I don't mind taking over russia for what's left of them.
I'll need one week to contact the other players.
Socrates
19-06-2004, 11:28
OK, thanks barbu ! Well, if you ask for one week, I think we don't have the choice but delay the game once again. I'd rather have the other players' inputs. Do you want to wait one whole week ?
Or maybe barbu, you could quickly engage in chatting with some people you find are important for this turn, we set up a special "catch up" schedule, and then we try to finish the next turn (spring 1905 !!) by the end of next week ?
Hmm. I guess I can wait a week, but if we could "catch up" that would be better. :)
I agree with Krysctov.
OK for the delay but if you can make it shorter than one week, all the better.
I have recieved the Russian orders this morning.
You tell me to report them and have you start Barbu taking over from the next season (autumn + winter 1904) or to ignore the Russian orders and have Barbu make up new fall 1904 moves and post next week.
Socrates
20-06-2004, 12:18
Toasty sent some orders ? Then post them now ! And then, I think barbu will be in charge of making retreats and builds this week-end.
To all : retreats have to be posted before tonight, 20:00pm GMT, if possible. If some retreats are missing, then we'll have to wait.
I think we won't have to delay the game after all. [goodjob]
England:
F English Channel - Brest
F North Sea - English Channel
F Sweden Hold
Italy:
A MUN S A MAR - BUR
A Ven - Trieste
F Ionian - Greece
F Tyrrhenian sea - Ionian sea
Germany:
F Baltic Sea - Denmark
A Belgium - Picardy
A Berlin - Munich
A Burgundy Supports A Belgium - Picardy
F Gulf of Bothnia Supports A St Petersburg
A Ruhr Supports A Berlin - Munich
A St Petersburg Hold
France :
F MID - GAS
F NAT - LVP
F PIC - BEL
A MAR - BUR
A PAR S A MAR - BUR
Austria:
vie s bud
tri - ser
Turkey:
F Aegean Sea - Greece
A Bulgaria Supports F Aegean Sea - Greece
F Constantinople - Aegean Sea
F Eastern Mediterranean Supports F Constantinople - Aegean Sea
A Rumania Supports A Serbia
A Serbia Supports A Rumania
A Sevastopol - Moscow
A Smyrna - Naples
A Ukraine Supports A Sevastopol - Moscow
Russia:
A(Bud) S A(Tri)-Ser
A(Mos)-StP
F(Lvn)-Pru
Socrates
20-06-2004, 13:34
Well, I'm such an asshole. Tell me why I did F PIC - BEL instead of the logical F PIC - BRE ? I was too greedy, I took some risk. England is profiting from Germany's collapse. I think I made my 1st BIG mistake this turn. Fuck it to hell. [fdevil]
I will once again have to defend for many turns, unless England and Germany realize that they can't leave together (just wait for the English fleets to come this turn !!).
I have 1 retreat order. When must I post the retreat orders?
What is the deadline for the builds orders?
Socrates
21-06-2004, 10:49
As a special schedule, and since barbu is in Canada, we must wait for tonight for the retreat. Adjustments are to be sent by tomorrow, same hour as usual.
A hello from Aveiro Portugal!
Well, I control Moscow [jumpD]
I´ll send provisional moves, and hope to come online later this week.
Yeah,
I have the Italian retreat but miss the Russian retreat. Barbu, please post the Russian retreat today!
Is there is a list of who has what builds anywhere? And when are build orders due?
AFAIK there is no such list in game #1
The builds are postphoned one day (read up!)
It would be great if either ERIKK or krys could update us with each new deadline, especially when they are changing (like this week).
I know krys posted it in this thread this week, but a post in the results thread would be even better. :)
We have both retreats now:
Russia retreats to Warsaw
Italy retreats to Kiel
Builds are due tomorrow 12gmt
Socrates
21-06-2004, 18:23
I want to remind you all that sending orders for retreats in fall and sending orders for adjustment in winter isn't the same affair and should be done separately (if possible). This is because retreats can have some influence on where you want to build (Diplo is a bit like chess : one unit here or there can be a whole different position in terms of tactic !!), and of course retreats can sometimes make win or lose a region (here : Italy gains control of Kiel by retreating). So adjustment should be done after the retreating phase is over.
Adjustment orders are due for tomorrow at 12:00 GMT.
As requested, I'll start to post additional info in the results topic, starting this week : next deadline, retreats at the top of the posts, adjustment information... :)
Game #1 - Winter 1904 Adjustments
Ita build F Naples
Rus disband F Prussia
Eng build F London, F Edinburough
barbu1977
22-06-2004, 13:12
Just so everyone is on the same line, i'll be taking over Russia (what is left of it) from now on.
The best way to ontact me is by PM. We can set a meeting on MSN if necessary.
Good luck as I will crush you all. [tvs]
Socrates
22-06-2004, 13:59
We have now completed 4 years !! [goodjob] Though it sometimes was painful, we managed to get to that point, and that looks promising for the future of this forum (BTW, kudos to game #2 as well).
I now have a question : games usually end at one point, because otherwise they would get too long or become stalled (like in the real WWI for many years). There is no USA in this game, so that's why games usually end somewhere, the winner being the one with the most centers (though he would be a "minor winner" or something like that). Remember one has to get 18 centers (out of 34) by the end of a year to win. We haven't decided upon this yet. [blush2] I want people's input, because it could lead to different strategies for everyone if we decide something. There must be a standard rule to stick to if no one agrees, though.
I'd like to point that out for game #2 as well.
After some little search :
- the pdf file indicates that all players share a draw if no one wins before the game deadline, and it doesn't give a standard deadline ;
- my own rule booklet indicates that players share points at the end of a "minor win" (deadline), the players being listed on a victory hall of fame, and it gives Fall 1907 as the standard deadline (14 turns, if no one agrees on anything else).
Just some additional info. This is our game, and we should agree on something ourselves.
Often the player with the most supply centers at the start of the year 1908 (end of 1907) wins
the game or - if the are more than one - have a draw. I have seen this much times. But the other
option where people play until a draw or a single win is decided upon, is the standard (I think).
Since we are not constrained by the "usual" time limits (playing one evening around someone's house, for example), I think it would be good to have a longer game.
Maybe *some* limit is needed, but I don't think we need to make it as short as 1907 (at least not for this game).
btw, are we still on course for a Friday deadline?
I much prefer a vote on a shared win. It completely changes the game and stalemate lines if you have a 'most centres by a given year' ending.
Anarres: yes, Friday is the deadline again.
tunerica
22-06-2004, 17:42
Not that I will be part of any win, but I think that the game should only end when all players still in the game agree on a winner or winners, or of course when someone gets to 18 centres.
Movement orders spring 1905:
France :
F GAS - MID
F LVP - CLY
F PIC - ENG
A BUR - GAS
A PAR - BRE
England:
F Brest Hold
F Edinburgh - Clyde
F English Channel Supports F Brest
F London - Wales
F Sweden - Norway
Russia:
A Budapest Supports A Trieste - Serbia
A Warsaw - Galicia
Germany:
A Belgium - Holland
F Denmark Supports F Gulf of Bothnia - Sweden
F Gulf of Bothnia - Sweden
A Munich - Silesia
A Ruhr - Kiel
A St Petersburg - Norway
Austria:
a vie s a war - gal
a tri - ser
Italy:
A Kiel H
F Ionian - Alb
F Naples - Ionian
F Thyrrenian S F Naples - Ionian
A Ven - Tyr
Turkey:
A mos - War
A Ukr supports A mos - War
A Ser - Bud
A Rum supports A Ser - Bud
A Bul - Ser
F Eas - Ion
F Gre supports F Eas - Ion
A SMY holds
F Aeg supports F Eas - Ion
barbu1977
26-06-2004, 05:28
Stupid support cutting rule [aargh]
I had not read this exception... My fault. Nice move Turkey.
Socrates
26-06-2004, 13:17
Well, cutting a support is one of the base rule in Diplo !! [???] If you don't use it, you just can't win. I'm sure it's very hard to win a Civ game if you don't build any worker at all...
About this turn, well I must say that I'm pleased with the results, which reached my expectations at last. Stapel is accelerating the game pace now, and so his influence is surely felt in the far west...
barbu1977
26-06-2004, 13:45
quote:Originally posted by kryszcztov
Well, cutting a support is one of the base rule in Diplo !! [???] If you don't use it, you just can't win. I'm sure it's very hard to win a Civ game if you don't build any worker at all...
I know that but I tough the rule that "a support is not cut from the territory it is supporting to" applied. I just did not know/read the dislogement exception[wallbash]
Socrates
26-06-2004, 14:46
Well, at least you knew about the rule that states that a unit doesn't cut an offensive support towards itself. I don't want it to sound obvious, but you thought that your support wouldn't be cut, even in dislodgement ? Anyway that reminds me that everyone should sometimes check all the important rules, so as not to make such mistakes. Of course you all know the 3 links in the stickied topic. ;)
P.S. : You could have used RealPolitik to simulate this turn. It's not forbidden at all of course. RealPolitik doesn't use the same rules as us in 100% of the cases, but differences are very thin. If anyone has a question about a rule, there is a topic for that (or just send a PM).
England:
F Sweden retreats to Baltic!
quote:Originally posted by barbu1977
Stupid support cutting rule [aargh]
I had not read this exception... My fault. Nice move Turkey.
Thanks!
You were not really thinking your army could both support and defend, did you ;)?
It's no exception I guess. Just a simple cut, by an invading army.
I did send my moves for fall 1905.
No moves yet. We were missing Tunerica and Loulong.
Tunerica is in now. Still waiting a bit more for Loulong.
All are in! :)
Fall 1905 (raw) moves:
Italy:
A Ber H
F Thyrrenian sea - Tun
F Naples - Ionian
A Tyr - Boh
F Alb - Greece
Austria:
A Vie S A Gal - Bud
A Tri S A Gal - Bud
England:
F Baltic Sea - Berlin
F Brest - Mid-Atlantic Ocean
F Edinburgh - North Sea
F English Channel - Belgium
F Wales - Liverpool
Germany:
F Denmark Supports A Holland - Kiel
A Holland - Kiel
A Ruhr - Munich
A Silesia - Munich
A St Petersburg - Norway
F Sweden Hold
Russia:
A Galicia - Budapest
Turkey:
A war - Gal
A ukr - Mos
A bud holds
A Rum supports A bud holds
A bul - Ser
A smy - Apu
F ion convoys A smy - Apu
F gre supports F ion convoys A smy - Apu
F aeg convoys A smy - Apu
France :
F LVP - WAL
F MID S F PIC - ENG
F PIC - ENG
A GAS S A PAR - BRE
A PAR - BRE
tunerica
03-07-2004, 13:50
What was Turkey doing moving out of War? Now Russia gets their build back. Very strange.
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