Very tasty looking new 1.18 beta patch !

[Skyfish]

Take a look at the changes who are implemented in the 1.18 beta patch.
It seems this will be the official version that will make it as the official new patch :D
Note the great advances for PBEM games for which myself and anarres begged Tavis until he was bored to death [goggle]
The Industrial age tech tree changes are really good too !


v1.18 Changes:
* Game Rule: Enable Scientific Leaders (ON by default)
* Railroads will always appear under captured cities if you have Steam Power.
* Histograph keeps tracking defeated Civs
* Electronics requirement removed from Motorized Transportation
* Radio Tech removed
* Advanced Flight now requires Electronics
* Radar Towers require Advanced Flight
* PBEM: Games can not be loaded in Single Player
* PBEM: v1.18 Games can not be loaded on earlier versions (prevents using earlier versions to still cheat) - earlier saves can be loaded in v1.18
* PBEM: Previous players Civ can no longer be seen when loading a PBEM game
* MPTournament: Map Trading moved back to Map Making
* MPTournament: Enkidu cost raised to 15
* MPTournament: Ancient Cavalry defense lowered from 2 to 1
* MPTournament: Captured cities retain culture
* MPTournament: Turn slices lowered from 24(base)/3(per-city)/1(per-unit) to 16/2/1
* MP: City goodie hut spawns are not possible in Elimination Mode


The patch is already out now...should we provide it here anarres ?

[Aggie]

Wow, this is going to change things in SP and MP! The fact that SGL's can be switched off sounds very good, since the SGL was one of the reasons to dislike C3C PBEM for me.

[Skyfish]

Just FYI :
Now that saves can not be opened from SP, we will implement a new MapMaking procedure where only the MapMakers will know the admin passwords of all games thus greatly reducing the risk of any cheating occuring ;)

[Stapel]

Looks great!

[anarres]

The file is uploaded at CDZ now!

Please PM me for a link to it if you are willing to try it out.

Please note that if you are using it in a game your opponent must also be using it, because once a save is opened in 1.18 it can't be opened in earlier versions. Because of this people who use 1.18 may need to have a duel install, until it becomes official, or until all your opponents have upgraded. I would duel install anyway, so you can start new games with 1.15'ers.

The easiest way to duel install (although it takes most space) is to copy your whole C3C directory (under your Civ3 direcotry) and call it "C3C1.15". Once this is copied you can apply the patch to your C3C installation as normal. Your existing shortcuts will poitn the the new 1.18, and you can create 1.15 shortcuts from the C3C1.15 directory to play in 1.15.

Note that before you copy your C3C directory you should temporarily move your saves directory, since that can take a lot of space. Move it back to the C3C1.15 dir when you are done, then create a new Saves directory in the C3C direcotry (1.18 version), and copy across saves from one the the other as needed.

It is very important to note that this is an unofficial BETA patch, and as such there is no guarentee that it is free from new (or old) bugs. Also, you will not be able to get any kind of support from Firaxis if something goes wrong.

[Shabbaman]

MPtournament, that's multiplayer I guess. Why aren't those changes implemented in the SP ("epic") game? Or am I reading this wrong?

[anarres]

Because MP games tend to be ancient era battles, and as such some of the C3C changes made the game a bit more unbalanced.

The MP community was crying out for changes like Map Trading back to Map Making, but the SP community was crying out for that not to happen. Firaxis has made the right choice in only modifying the mp biq.

[Shabbaman]

Hmm, ok. Well, it's not as if ancient civilizations didn't exchange maps in RL... Ancient cavalry, or just the SoZ is a pain in the butt as well. I don't care that much though, glad they finally fixed those annoying pbem bugs.

[Socrates]

That sounds great ! [cool]

At last PBEM gets fixed. About the industrial age changes, well it surely sounds more logical that way (tech requiring), but why is Radio gone ? It's a bit funny, because so far I've never gone further than the early Middle Ages in C3C. [lol]

About duel installation, that's a no-no for me. I've already got too much headache with language stuff, so now I'll stick with my 100% French version, and too bad for those tasty mods made by English-speaking guys... Well I can still translate them, I guess. I'll upgrade to this patch as soon as it's available in French, proved stable, and only once Skyfish and Killer are ready for it. Now I'll find out if 1.18b will ever be in French at all... [crazyeye]

EDIT : BTW, Sirian of RBCiv was very lately very upsetted by those scientific great leaders that could lead to very different games WITHOUT PLAYER CONTROL. I think he will be happy to see that he can turn them off (what he basically wanted).
And I guess that this patch is quite secret, as I can see no sign of it at CFC. Is it at that special, secret sub-forum over there ? Where did you get that, Skyfish ?

[Beam]

This looks great! Finally some attention for PBEM fixes.

Is there a replacement for Electronics as prerequisite for Motorized Transp.?

[anarres]

Small (cosmetic) bug...

The tech tree (industrial) looks like this atm:
http://members.cox.net/kring1bc/Tech%20Tree.JPG

But it should look like this:
http://harmless.ch/c3c/industrial_age.gif

[Shabbaman]

Holy cow! This means that you can get to tanks a whole lot faster!!!

[anarres]

Another bug has been found: Because Civil Defense required Radio it now has no requirement. Someone posted a fix at CFC to the conquests.biq so it requires Motorised Transportation.

I have uploaded a new 1.18 with the civil defense fix in it.

[Beam]

quote:Originally posted by Shabbaman

Holy cow! This means that you can get to tanks a whole lot faster!!!


Indeed, it might be the end of the Inf. / Arti combo and also might mean a change to your sig Shabba!

[Skyfish]

The Industrial Age tech tree change has loads of ramifications which require now many more strategic choices (especially with PBEMs I might add).
Once ppl get more familiar with them we should talk about it more :D

[anarres]

I uploaded the patched 1.18 from Tavis.

Edit: At the request of Tavis the link to 1.18 has been removed from the forum. There is no problem if anyone here wants to use it, just PM me and I'll send you the link.

[ProPain]

Maybe it's just monday morning dimwittedness. But why can you get to tanks faster? Radio was never a required tech for mot. trans. iirc. It was a high level tech that a human player could research pretty quickly and as it would be mostly ignored by the AI it was great to get back in the tech race. Although with the new gov techs that isnt really necessay anymore. Stupid AI will research those useless gov techs first all the time.

[Aggie]

ProPain is right :) Imho the big difference of no Radio tech is that you can't research it after free techs Atomic Theory and Electronics for Hoover. This used to be a monopoly tech for the human, since only Electronics was required for it. So you are not certain anymore that you will get yet another tech before the AI does. This makes it more difficult for the human to keep the tech lead on (for me) deity and higher.

[Markstar]

[cool] I must say it was about time that the SP-loading bug got fixed.

Now, has any of you insiders heard anything about the release date of the official patch? Wasn't the goal something like end of February? It does sound like this is a 'close-to-final' release for a selected few to do some final testing before they realease the real deal.
Of course the other option could be that it'll be pushed back... [cry]

[anarres]

The latest news is that it will be released in march. The 1.18a beta has some small problems that need ironing out first.

[col]

The main difference in taking radio out of the tank route is that you now have to make a genuine choice. It used to be a no brainer. Everyone went ToE / Hoover because you needed radio for tanks. Now you have a real chance to go the high route instead. Forget ToE / Hoover and beeline for tanks is now an option that simply didnt exist before.

[Lt. Killer M]

col, how was radio necessary for tanks??????

[Aggie]

quote:Originally posted by Lt. Killer M

col, how was radio necessary for tanks??????


Col always finished the game before tanks obviously [tongue]

[col]

Sorry - trying to think too early in the morning. Electronics was needed for tanks so everyone automatically went Sci Meth / Atomic / Electronics.

Now that will be a choice which has consequences ie you might fall behind the race to tanks.

[Lt. Killer M]

col: I had to load a game and check F6, too ;)

btw, our game is stuck again, hu?

[Aggie]

The fact that Radio Towers now come with a non-required tech is also a biggie!

[col]

@Killer - looks like a save has gone missing. I'll check all my folders tonight.

[ProPain]

quote:Originally posted by col

The main difference in taking radio out of the tank route is that you now have to make a genuine choice. It used to be a no brainer. Everyone went ToE / Hoover because you needed electronics (PP edit) for tanks. Now you have a real chance to go the high route instead. Forget ToE / Hoover and beeline for tanks is now an option that simply didnt exist before.


I'm not convinced that beelining for tanks is a real choice in this matter. I'm not known for my techmongering skills, but if I haven't managed to get back to par at the end of the middle age, I usually by going SciMed->atomic theory-> electronics. When you snatch up the ToE you'll get At. Theory and Electronics for free. Which will give you (with the proper Hoover dam prebuild)

increased production for those tanks
2 techs to trade around and at least get you back to par on the tech front. I usually don't bother for communism or fascism unless it is thrown in for 'free' as I never use to governments anyway


This will not change now electronics is out of the tank path and the tech trading will easily make up for the techs you missed out on in the tank path. So imho it won't make that big a difference unless they change the AI to skip those gov techs and go the ToE route too for a change.

[Skyfish]

I disagree with you PP.

I believe this change is very beneficial, especially to PBEM players.

This change brings a great change in Industrial Age strategies.

Now players have to make a very important choice when entering IA : do I go for Tanks as soon as possible, or do I build up my infrastructure with the Hoover Dam so I can produce tanks in greater numbers later? Do I spend my two free techs from the ToE on the expensive tech branch that leads to the Hoover Dam, or do I select the upper branch so I can be the first to Motorized Transportation?

You would get a similar choice as with the Middle Ages, except that the strategy would not be as extreme because cavalry can be upgraded from Horsemen, but you have to build tanks from scratch.

As it is now, I rarely use Tanks against an opponent who has Infantry, because Modern Armor is at most 5 techs away, and I need some time to build my tanks anyway. If Tanks don't need Electronics, it would give another choice: do I attack with Tanks, or do I wait for Modern Armor?

You are right however on how the AIs spend all their time on NAtionalism-> Communism-> Fascism
But first I dont care because I only play PBEM and two any change that brings more diversity and requires greater strategical choices is welcome :)

[Arghis]

Why does the IA spend so much time on NAtionalism-> Communism-> Fascism ? to give us a break ? No seriously, someone has a precise idea ?

[Lt. Killer M]

the AIs value all gov techs highly. Fascism sucks, but they can't know

[Arghis]

As far as i've seen, the 2nd FP provided by Communism is a must (at least for vast empire).