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anarres
03-04-2003, 22:45
Game Settings

- Deity
- Archipelago
- Random everything else (including civ's)

I end up being Egypt, ProPain is France.

Here is my start:

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/pp/pics/pp001.start.jpg

anarres
03-04-2003, 23:55
Turn 7

I have produced 1 warrior and sent him north.

Here is my map:

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/pp/pics/pp007.map.jpg

I have cleared the forest with game and started a granary pre-build. I only managed to get 1 warrior out, I forgot that I was industrious and now it would waste too many shields to stay on warriors. At least this way I get a very early granary and start pumping them out sooner.

Being industroius really helped working the tile, I will expand in turn 9 instead of 11 :)

anarres
04-04-2003, 00:30
Turn 11

Meet the Persians. I can see another civ to the SE (from border expansion [:o]). The lone warrior is diverted to the south.

ERIKK
04-04-2003, 08:46
- The Persians as neighbours... That is not very good news.
- Lands seem OK
- City will grow to size 4 (or higher?) building that granary. With no guards inside it means trouble or are you gonna set the lux very high?
- How are you planning to get your GA btw? Or will you fight a despotism war this time (with the chariot)?

anarres
04-04-2003, 12:24
The civ border to the SE is just 5 tiles from my capital! I have changed production to a settler, I am size 3 already (I got the cow now too). I will build war chariots and take the civ out quick, but I need to find horses to do that, and for that I also need the wheel. I am hoping I can trade with the new civ to get the wheel, we will see very soon...

anarres
04-04-2003, 22:41
I just met the Zulu! :(

Shit, Persia and Zulu, are there 2 worse neighbours to have???

Sell Masonry to the Zulu for Pottery, Warrior Code, Bronze Wroking and 8 gold.

anarres
04-04-2003, 23:13
Turn 20

Build Memphis, 2 cities! :D

I am torn between building a third city before attackig the Zulu or not, but I think I will since I won't get many units going with 2 cities. I am currently about 130 turns from the wheel and War Chariots.

ERIKK
04-04-2003, 23:28
130 turns? 40 turns is slowest, right?

anarres
04-04-2003, 23:56
Whoops. It was acually about 20 at the time, dunno what i was thinking [:o]

anarres
05-04-2003, 03:13
Here is the map at turn 38:

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/anarres/20034521048_pp038.map.jpg
44.58KB

Unfortunately I have left Heliopolis undefended in the NW, and a Persian Spear is approaching. :(

They are currently annoyed, I hope they fuckoff and leave me alone...

ERIKK
06-04-2003, 12:27
[scared2] Room for 2 more cities I guess... (near the iron+horse and near the horse)...

anarres
07-04-2003, 22:12
52 - City founded in the north, by the horse and iron.

Have met ProPain (France) and Babylon suddenly!

Pay Babylon 8gpt for Writing.
Get contact with the Germans and 13 gold from the Zulu for 5 gpt.
Get contact with the Romans from the Germans for contact with the Persians and 13 gold.
Get Horseback Riding and 1 gold from Persia for Writing.
Sell contact witht he Persians to Rome for 23 gold.

Persia and Rome don't know France (ProPain) yet.
Rome is lacking Horseback Riding
Check out france: [groucho]

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/anarres/200347211110_pp052.france.jpg
56.42KB

anarres
10-04-2003, 02:12
I have been pumping out a couple more settlers and I've agressively settled on some ivory to the SE near the Zulu. I am heavily fortifying the town and I will ge tthe immediate tiles around it when the temple completes in a few turns.

Turn 63 - Trade with Rome: Sell Horseback Riding and Contact with the French for a worker and 3 gold.

Here is the diplo chat (uncensored) ;)

ProPain says:
I wanna buy HR and or IW
anarres says:
cool
anarres says:
what you offering?
ProPain says:
money
anarres says:
they're both useful tech you know
anarres says:
i'm all ears
ProPain says:
salespitch time?
ProPain says:
what do you want for them
anarres says:
make me an offer, i say again!
ProPain says:
5gpt for both
anarres says:
lol
anarres says:

anarres says:
100 measly gold for 2 fucking techs!!!
anarres says:
why don't i send you my mother so you can fuck her too!
anarres says:
(/jk btw)
ProPain says:
no thanx, that woudl really upset my gf
anarres says:
maybe she could watch...
anarres says:
no
anarres says:
no
anarres says:
my mind has nasty mental pictures now
anarres says:
but seriously, you may as well ask me to chop off a leg as get 2 fighting techs for 100 gold, and over 20 turns too
ProPain says:
Well, you called that upon yourself
ProPain says:
well make a counteroffer
anarres says:
maybe i should have said 'make me a *reasonable* offer'
anarres says:
100 gold or 6gpt for *one* of them. that's reasonable imo. I'll even let you choose eiter one.
ProPain says:
nah, that's what the comp is asking too
ProPain says:
I'd rather buy from them then
ProPain says:
maybe I get lucky and they demand tribute
anarres says:
hmm, ok, if you don't want to haggle
*shrug*
ProPain says:
8 gpt for both
ProPain says:
I gotta eat to you know
ProPain says:
life's expensive with the euro and all
anarres says:
make it 10 gpt and it's a deal. If 10 gpt is too much, then you can pay 8gpt for 25 turns (still = 200 gold)
ProPain says:
mmm
ProPain says:
I'll think about it and let you know tomorrow.

And here is a map of my empire:

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/anarres/200341011142_pp063,map.jpg
51.04KB

DrAlimentado
10-04-2003, 02:21
lol,

anarres, you really are a dirtly little fucker!

ERIKK
10-04-2003, 09:38
What will you do? Will you attack the Persians or Zulus?

anarres
10-04-2003, 13:28
I haven't decided who to go for first. Persia has Immortals, Zulu's have Impi. Either will trigger a Golden Age.

Maybe Zulu since they are marginally weaker and more trapped in, therefore they may want to fight me soon anyway.

On the other hand the Persians have Immortals, but if I attack inthe next 20 turns they shouldn't have too many. The longer I leave them the bigger their Immortal army.

You can see the agreesive settling going on to the south, I may be able to flip something from the Zulu's, so it might be best to let them simmer and wait it out.

Ideas? Comments?

ERIKK
10-04-2003, 17:00
I would rather fight the Zulu than the Persians. Either way, you will have to fight....

Kemal
10-04-2003, 17:14
I guess it depends on which weapons you're going to use. If you fight with swordsmen (if you want to delay your GA) I'd say take out the zulus, as their impi won't help them much against swordsmen and the eastern mountain ranges as well as the heavy forestation near the northeastern Zulu town will cause mobility problems when using chariots,

However, if you use war chariots, I think you should go for the Persians. As you said their immortal army will probably still be small, and if you manage to take Arbela and Tarsus by surprise the great plains await, where war chariots can rule the battlefield.

anarres
16-04-2003, 20:57
64 - Rushed a temple in my new border town to grab it's immediate tiles from the Zulu.

66 - Found Pi-Ramesses.

67 - Sell WM to Persia for 27 gold.

Trade horses, WM and 12 gold with the Zulu for Map Making.

Get Mathematics, Territory Map and 12 gold for Map Making from Persia.

Sell WM around getting another 80 gold or so. Buying the WM is well out of my means atm.

Keeping the Zulu trading with me will reduce the chance of them attacking, and I intend to carry on the agressive settling of new cities, maybe I will get a flip.

I have 91 gold in the bank, and set research to 0%.

anarres
16-04-2003, 21:00
I am tied in with the Zulu's now for 20 turns. I am agrssively settling on our border, I am heavily defending and hoping to get a flip.

anarres
22-04-2003, 21:35
69 - Change my mind about research as I appear to be the tech leader. Set science to Philosophy.

72 - ProPain gets Philosophy and sells it around to every civ. I have 3 turns left, and buy it from the Germans for WM and 46 gold.

74 - Sell Map Making to ProPain for 80 gold (in 4 installments). He is one tough cookie, see the CFC thread for full diplo.

78 - At least my culture push in the North worked, I will soon have dyes connected! :D

79 - Found Giza

86 - Meet the Iroquois with a Galley. Give then Mathematics and Philosophy for their World Map (I don't have a full one yet).

My 20-turn horse deal with the Zulu ends next turn. I move my forces in to position for attack next turn.

anarres
22-04-2003, 21:44
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/anarres/2003422204338_pp086.minimap.jpg
7.86KB

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/anarres/2003422204357_pp086.map.jpg
137.73KB

anarres
23-04-2003, 11:33
87 - Persia demands 21 gold, I give in.

Declare war on the Zulu.

Raze Mpondo in the North. Take Ulundi in the south, losing 8 War Chariots and taking only 3 Impi. [mad3]

From my stack of 15 I have only 4 left, not enough to press on and guarentee another city next turn. This may be a slow war...

WildFire
23-04-2003, 13:39
Ouch

ERIKK
23-04-2003, 14:16
Why didn't you get the Persians involved against the Zulu's? Right now they are a danger to your northeastern borders!

anarres
23-04-2003, 14:46
The Zulu are all mine!

If Persia stick's their oar in I have plenty of clout left for them. [evil]

The main reason is that as soon as my Zulu war is over I hope to switch to the Persians, and will need to be able to attack straight away.

anarres
05-05-2003, 18:35
88 - ProPain has declared war on me and bought Persia in to it. From my missing units I can tell I lost 3 War Chariots to Persia.

89 - Discover Code of Laws.

91 - Lose a city to the Persians! [saiyan]

I am in deep shit now. I make peace with the Zulu for 1 gpt.

92 - ProPain has paid the Zulu to declare war on me again. [rolleyes]

94 - I have to abandon Byblos by giving it to the Babylonians, the Zulu will take it this turn.

95 - Persia have a stack of 12 offensive units 2 tiles from my capital. The Zulu's havae come past Byblos, I can't take on both stacks.

Make peace again with Persia for 44 gold, getting Polytheism and 42 gold too. Now if PP pays for war again I will get a free tech.

96 - As predicted PP has paid Persia to declare on me again. [mad3]

Give Polytheism and 13 gold to the Iroquois for WM.

Trade WM around for about 30 gold.

I kill about 6 Zulu units, losing another 3 units. Make peace with the Zulu. I give 22 gpt and get Construction WM and 5 gold. I expect to get this tech free too, give ProPains recent behaviour. [rolleyes]

97 - ...

I am in deep shit. I have got a couple of tech from the predictable broken peace treaties, but I don't know if I can stop the Persians, let alone the Zulu.

For some reason PP didn't immediately pay the Zulu to redeclare on me. Either he is running out of cash or considers them a waste of time (or he jsut forgot). On msm he told me they weren't worth the effort, this may be true.

The next time Persia and me make peace I will move all my units in to place to take 2 of their cities when they redeclare. That will put a permanent halt to their attacks I hope.

There is a very good chance I will not make it trough the next 20 turns.

anarres
05-05-2003, 18:36
88 - ProPain has declared war on me and bought Persia in to it. From my missing units I can tell I lost 3 War Chariots to Persia.

89 - Discover Code of Laws.

91 - Lose a city to the Persians! [saiyan]

I am in deep shit now. I make peace with the Zulu for 1 gpt.

92 - ProPain has paid the Zulu to declare war on me again. [rolleyes]

94 - I have to abandon Byblos by giving it to the Babylonians, the Zulu will take it this turn.

95 - Persia have a stack of 12 offensive units 2 tiles from my capital. The Zulu's havae come past Byblos, I can't take on both stacks.

Make peace again with Persia for 44 gold, getting Polytheism and 42 gold too. Now if PP pays for war again I will get a free tech.

96 - As predicted PP has paid Persia to declare on me again. [mad3]

Give Polytheism and 13 gold to the Iroquois for WM.

Trade WM around for about 30 gold.

I kill about 6 Zulu units, losing another 3 units. Make peace with the Zulu. I give 22 gpt and get Construction WM and 5 gold. I expect to get this tech free too, give ProPains recent behaviour. [rolleyes]

97 - ...

I am in deep shit. I have got a couple of tech from the predictable broken peace treaties, but I don't know if I can stop the Persians, let alone the Zulu.

For some reason PP didn't immediately pay the Zulu to redeclare on me. Either he is running out of cash or considers them a waste of time (or he jsut forgot). On msm he told me they weren't worth the effort, this may be true.

The next time Persia and me make peace I will move all my units in to place to take 2 of their cities when they redeclare. That will put a permanent halt to their attacks I hope.

There is a very good chance I will not make it through the next 20 turns.

WildFire
05-05-2003, 22:10
Wow that little bastard! Good luck getting outta this one...

Cruise
05-05-2003, 23:35
Great game there. Though from past games we know Anarres can be a Houdini, looking at how he got back in the game and won with that huge game with ERIKK. Perhaps you get a lucky break with a few leaders etc. :)

anarres
06-05-2003, 00:56
Well, no leaders yet, despite lots of elite wins....

99 - This is it. I can get to a Persian city in 1 turn from my capital:

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/anarres/20035523531_pp.099.persia.jpg
Before

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/anarres/200355235326_pp.099.persia2.jpg
After

MWAHAHAHA MWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA MWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA [mwaha]

100 - ProPain pays the Zulu to declare on me again. No worries, they just saved me 22 gpt.

So, all may not be lost. Ther eis a stack of 12 Persian Immoratals approachig the north now. [scared]

anarres
09-05-2003, 22:48
100 - ProPain pays the Zulu to declare on me again. No worries, they just saved me 22 gpt.

102 - Pay 27 gpt to the Persians for Currency as part of a peace treaty.

103 - Persia is at war with me again. WTF? How can PP afford this? Anyway, I got Curency for free, and PErsia failed to take my hill city with it's (12 immortal strong) SoD. For some reason they went for my most heavily fortified city.

I have prepared an attack for next turn:

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/anarres/200359214752_pp.103.parsargadae.jpg
36.99KB

anarres
07-06-2003, 22:27
I was sure to lose this game, so I have resigned.

Well done ProPain! :)

Aggie
08-06-2003, 01:53
Was the start unbalanced or were you unprepared for Propain's tactic?

anarres
08-06-2003, 02:13
A bit of both IMO.

Having the Zulu and Persians so close, both with ancient UU's and being very agressive was bad.

I use a settler rush in most games, the game was lost when I built a granary first. 95% of the time it is the best option.

Having said that I was totally unprepared for ProPain's MA tactics, although even if I knew about my start in advance I am not sure if I could have won. Could you win this game in single player as an Always War?

WildFire
08-06-2003, 03:31
I could never of won this game, probably would of lost sooner! Nice try!

ProPain
10-06-2003, 09:54
Your stack near Pasargardae doesnt suggest a loss in the near future. You were doing much better than I hoped!

Skyfish
10-06-2003, 11:31
quote:Could you win this game in single player as an Always War?

An Always War can ONLY be won if you know from the start it's an AW.
It seems stupid to say but if you just start a "normal" game with all the strategy that it involves (you mentionned for example the Granary issue) there is no way you can survive the game if it later turns out to be an unvoluntary Always War !
Good job on surviving this far [thumbsup]

anarres
10-06-2003, 12:03
Ahh well, the stack failed ProPain, that was my last chance. All my cities are undefended apart from 2 War Cariots that were running around.

ProPain
10-06-2003, 14:03
OK, so you were in as bad a shape as I thought!

One question : Why didn't you ally with Xerxes when you declared war on the zulus in the first place?

anarres
10-06-2003, 14:07
IIRC they were at war already and I didn't think I could afford an embassy and an MA that turn.

Also, it wouldn't have stopped you from doing what you did, you could have still bought the MA against me. ;)