Lt. Killer vs. Markstar - Spoiler

[Markstar]

So, here comes a little overview about what happended so far:

I start with a pretty nice position again, which I really like. But I soon find out that even though we should have a little more landmass then in my game against anarres, this time I have both AIs directly next to me! [aargh]

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Markstar/2004213172140_3850BC.jpg
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3050BC: Wow, this took forever! I finally found Killer. This is how things looked then:

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Markstar/2004213172447_3050BC.jpg
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My fears have not come true yet. I still have at least some room to expand to and my settler-factory up and running. [^]
I'm a little scared because Killer has more points than me which leades me to the following step: I'll do exactly what ProPain told me as a reason why he imprisoned my (then) innocent scout in our Tiny Chaos game:

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Markstar/2004213173832_2950BC.jpg
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...I destroy his road and retreat. [evil] Yes, I do feel really bad about this. I actually never thought of such a strategy, but I've learned a lot since I'm here... [thumbsup]


1870BC: I finally discover writing. Killer has gotten Korea to declare war at me. Not the perfect moment for me since I still have a pretty week military... Killer says that I will waste my GA now, which I don't really think I will be... I sensed that the general opinion here is that you try to way for your GA until Republic. And while I agree that this has a greater increase in production, I think it can be just as effective in earlier stages...

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Markstar/2004213175023_1870BC.jpg
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1575BC: It finally looks like Killer is going to attack me...yeah! In the meantime I'm about to take Seoul. Turns out Korea was not a huge threat after all.

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Markstar/200421318047_1575BC.jpg
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This is how things are right now:

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Markstar/200421318415_1300BC.jpg
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As you can see, it turns out Killer did not attack me, but went for the Americans instead. So I decide to attack them as well before Killer get all the cake. [:p] But it turns out he is really quick and got to Boston even before me! All the better, that means I get to kill his troops instead. [shoot] I got lucky and even had a leader. Don't really know what to do with it, so I'm rushing the Pyramids in Boston.

I'm thinking about attacking Killer at home. Unlike in the game vs. anarres, I think I have a clear shot here. The problem is all the jungle in between, so maybe I'll try to reduce the travel time before I make an attempt. I'm also afraid that he'll come over by boat, so I'm watching my back in case he tries anything fancy. [cyclops]

[Markstar]

Well, it turns out we were even closer to the end than I thought.
Killer started an attack that I could fend off, and two rounds after he resigned.

This is before he attacked:

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Markstar/2004213215455_Final.jpg
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I actually saw some of his troops arriving the round before as I was making a move towards the new Korean capital (that's why the Immortal is already injured). But I was ready for him anyways, as you can see on the picture. I killed most of his units without even losing a single unit (and I fought against the Koreans as well, also without losing any units). But even with a couple of losses I would have been able to fight Killer off.

And there ended my second game...

I have 2 more coming up (against Erikk & Arghis), I hope they start soon. [cool]

[anarres]

Wow! You must be setting records for speed here... [eek]

[Skyfish]

Well playin super tiny maps with Iros....its gotta be fast right ?

[Markstar]

Well, I was hoping for two more fast PTW-games before I make the switch to C3C... [evil]

[ERIKK]

Why dont you play ours on that c3c map? It seems you don't need any training or so... (I assume
you have c3c installed yet). Also, you will have a superiour civ (iro's again) against my shitty
Zulus.

It will probably take another week before our PTW map is ready and we already have been waiting
for like 1,5 weeks now...

[Markstar]

To be honest - I'm a little afraid. [blush2]

I've not that much experience in C3C yet, I'm just about to finish my first test game on Monarch. C3C does feel much different, especially the corruption in 1.15.

And I hear Deity in Conquests is supposed to be much harder than in PTW. [dunno]

Plus, I'm not to wild about losing the Expansionist trade as Iroquois...

All in all, if you insist to play on C3C, I'd like to ask for at least another week to get accustomed to C3C, at least a little bit... [hmm]

[anarres]

Defintly you should play C3C. It is a BIG improvment on PTW!!

[Socrates]

Hehe, well done Markstar ! Killer seemed very pissed off being so unlucky against you, but it seems you deserved this fine victory. Are you of Iroquois descendent ? :D

As for jumping to C3C, I suggest you did it now, because the more you wait the slower you will adapt. Consider my case : I bought C3C in mid-November, and so far I have never completed a single game with it, except for a quick Mesopotamia game (that I'll try again) !! [eek] And the 2 PBEMs I'm currently playing are my first ever, except for that 8-player PBEM on PTW that will end next decade. Come on, don't be afraid, and play this (finely patched) extension... and try to forget about the expansionnist trait.

[Markstar]

I do like C3C so far, but it seems my favourite tribe is indeed messed up. Not only is the expansionist trait gone, they are not even religious anymore! [cry]

This means I really have to reevaluate my game, which will take a little longer... one thing seems obvious - Iroquois are not a very good choice anymore.

Also, I will start a Sid game soon to see how corruption is on higher levels. It seemed pretty low to me on Monarch. Plus I heard that it is quite a challenge to even beat it on Sid. [cool]

I'd love to play some PBEM, I have almost no games running right now. But for now it'll still be PTW... [blush2]

[anarres]

Corruption is fine in 1.15 now. :)

Also the Iroquois are Sci and Agri! That's 2 of the best traits! And anyway, expansionist sucks on Deity/Sid.

[Markstar]

Nope, they are commercial.
I agree the agricultural trait is awesome, but I do miss the expansionist/religious combo.

I just tried a game in Sid, mmh, it's kinda hart. [eek]

...now I'm depressed. [cry]

Mmh, maybe I need some more practice...[hmm]

I can see why the expansionist trait sucks in Sid, though, the AI is building so fast, there's just no way to keep up. I think you can beat it, but don't really see the fun right now. But as I said, maybe I just need more practice.

[anarres]

The main problem with Expansionist is that the odds of getting 'nice' things from huts rapidly approachs zero as you move up on levels.

On Sid no-one has reported getting either a settler or a city from a hut, and I expect the chances are exactly zero.

[Markstar]

quote:Originally posted by anarres

The main problem with Expansionist is that the odds of getting 'nice' things from huts rapidly approachs zero as you move up on levels.

On Sid no-one has reported getting either a settler or a city from a hut, and I expect the chances are exactly zero.

I guess that makes sense. [ponder]

Right now I have no idea how to keep up with the AI. Research is awefully slow and they develop like crazy. It looks to me like one need a close to perfect setting to beat it. I'm sure it can be done (like on a large map with few AIs), but under normal circumstances? [???]

I'm thinking about starting a second Sid-game and opening up a thread about it, so you can take part in my misery... [cry] or is there already another thread on 'How to beat Sid'?

[anarres]

On Sid you don't keep up generally, at least not for a couple of ages. You just need to get to industrial when you can 'power up' your civ.

On Deity and lower you can be tech lead from turn 50...

[Markstar]

Just seems impossible to me to keep up on a normal map.

I'll try again (I am still really frustrated after my first attempt (I didn't really lose but saw no point of finishing it, I had barely developed my 2nd tech when they seemed to be ready for the Middle Ages)), will let you know how that works... [punch]

[anarres]

Well, Sid is meant to be difficult - check our Sid SG:

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1154

[Markstar]

Mmh, well, I don't think that Sid game can be considered a 'normal' start, since there is plenty of bonus stuff around the capital, which makes it A LOT easier.
Plus, it's archipelago, that means things won't get crowded that easily.

Anyways, I'll start a Sid and invite everybody to share their thought on that game... [help]

[anarres]

Too easy? [eek] How about our nearest hoses are over 30 tiles away in the core of onr of the strongest AI? How about us not having a single lux!

If you think it's so easy why not give it a go yoursef? [groucho]

[Markstar]

I'm totally not saying that this is an easy game, just that I wouldn't consider it a 'normal' (or maybe better said 'average') start.
You have to admit, a good settler-factory is worth far more than a luxury or two. And you have at least two there.

But I had no intention of implying that I could do better or that this was an easy set-up.