View Full Version : Corruption explained by Soren
This is a quote, directly from Soren when he was explaining corruption in Conquests (patch 1.15).
This is amazingly well written, I don't think I've seen corruption so well described before without being a technical document. [goodjob]
quote:There are two kinds of corruption, distance-based and empire-based.
Distance-based is determined by the distance from the city to the nearest seat of government (Palace, FP, SPH). The farther the distance, the higher the corruption.
Empire-based is determined by the "city rank," which is calculated by assigning a number to each city in progression from the capital outward. The higher the city rank, the higher the corruption. Further, if the city rank is higher than the "optimal city number" (OCN) - which is map-dependent - the rate at which empire-based corruption goes up increases.
These two forms of corruption are additive. Thus, if a city has total corruption, it might be from high distance-based corruption, high empire-based corruption, or medium amounts of both.
Building a Forbidden Palace (or SPH) does two things. First, it provides a new center for cities to measure their distance-based corruption. Second, it increases the OCN by 3/8 (was 1/4 in 1.13).
This method is how corruption was originally intended to work. 1.12 and 1.13 use this model (the main difference between the two being the FP increase in OCN). Civ3 and PtW did not quite follow this model because there was a bug involving how city rank was calculated.
This "new" model allows for two cores, with the second being weaker than the first. One interesting aspect of this system is that it doesn't matter how far the two cores are apart from each other as distance-corruption is calculated from the FP and city rank is an absolute number (9th city, 10th city, etc.). I mention this only to show that building one's FP on a new continent can be very worthwhile.
As a special case, the city with the FP gets it's corruption capped at (I think) 30%...
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1353&REPLY_ID=17375
[lol] Well, I can't be expected to remember everything!
I like this thread as well :
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=76619
Nothing new, is there?
Oh there is: both types of corruption are additive.
Does anyone know what a courthouse does? fight empire corruption, distance corruption , or both?
A courthouse fights distance corruption (it halves it), but also it provides a lower "maximum corruption cap", by 10%. For example, max corruption is normally 90% now, but with a courthouse the max is 80%.
I find that courthouses and police stations can really extend the number of productive cities. Throw in engineers when you get RP and you can get production from a whole lot wider core than ever before..
quote:Originally posted by anarres
A courthouse fights distance corruption (it halves it), but also it provides a lower "maximum corruption cap", by 10%. For example, max corruption is normally 90% now, but with a courthouse the max is 80%.
Hmmm, the problem with the 2nd core is not the distance corruption, but the city-rank corruption. What still bothers me, is that cities located between the 2 cores will screw up the city rank of the 2nd core cities.
Well, that is the intention Stapel. It means you can't just automatically place your FP far away and expect a fully productive core. If you have a small number of cities however you can do this.
Yup - the days of having two completely separate productive cores are over.
Of course, I ge the point.
But, the 2nd core can't be helped with building courthouses. Furthermore, on a archipelago map, the 2 cores MUST be near eachother. That does limit the options a bit...
The way it is now, I simply tend to build the FP asap near the palace and have 1 big core for the rest of the game....
If you keep under the (modified) OCN the FP cities can be half way around the world and it will have the same corruption as if it was much closer to home.
On island maps that is definitely an option!
Courthouses (and Police Stations) decrease distance corruption and increase the optimal number of cities. They also each decrease the maximum corruption limit.
So they definitely help cities in your 2nd core be more productive.
quote:Originally posted by anarres
If you keep under the (modified) OCN the FP cities can be half way around the world and it will have the same corruption as if it was much closer to home.
On island maps that is definitely an option!
The problem is, that when you settle an island, between your 2 cores, it will ruin the 2nd core.
Sky, do Courthouses increase the OCN? That is really new for me!
Stapel, in vanilla/PTW, courthouses, policestations (and WLTKD for waste) let the (...modified...) OCN 'virtually' increase for that city only. This is important for the case differentiation whether a certain city is affected by a lower amount of rank corruption or a higher amount of rank corruption.
Say you have a ("modified") OCN of 100. Let's assume for the moment you have no courthouses, policestations, WLTKD anywhere.
Cities with the rank '1' to '100' get certain (not so strong) rank corruption. [Note that the city with the rank '50' suffers in total from higher rank-corruption than a city with rank '20', of course.]
But now you get a city ranked '101' (no court etc). That's where the rank-hammer kicks in [estwing].
You will find that the increment of rank corruption between city '100' and city '101' is much bigger than the increment between city '99' and '100'. Now you build city '102' and rush a courthouse (only) there. Your city '102' now *behaves* similarily to cities ranked '1'...'100' while city '101' still feels the hammer. So your courthouse in city '102' gets you sort of a rank bonus for that city '102' only, no other city (or the "modified", but rather static OCN) will be affected by '102's courthouse.
Ok, the OCN itself is constant for a certain map size, but gets modified by difficulty etc. Saying the "OCN increases because of a courthouse" refers to a certain city only.
1 IMPORTANT exception here: the FP/SPHQ gives a benefit that has (theoretically) an effect on all cities.
To show you the difference between cities suffering from relative low rank corruption (i.e. 'healthy rank') and cities suffering from higher rank corruption (i.e. 'hammer rank'), here's some numbers from a kind of a vanilla-rank-corruption simulator (for the record, the values put into alexman's formula: fn=1.7 [fn equal for all cities in example], nopt=10 <- these values sorta define that "modified" OCN thingie):
left column is city rank, right is rank-corruption (printed number*100 = rank corr%)
... ....
15 0.4411765
16 0.4705882
17 0.5000000
18 0.5588236
19 0.6176471
You can see that cities with rank '15', '16' and '17' have a "healthy rank": the increments in rank corruption are only ~3% from one to the next rank in the rank range '1'....'17'. BUT!
City with rank '18' (and above) get the hammer: increment is now ~6% per rank! Rank '18' is the barrier for low/high rank corruption in this example. City '19' loses 61% of its shields only due to rank-corruption (in reality, you'd get the distance slap on top of that).
NOTE: "increase OCN" will not only affect the 'virtual' rank of the city at that critical barrier, but rank-related corruption directly anyways. That's why you would build a courthouse in lower ranked (well under that barrier) cities as well under all circumstances (plus now eventually in fairly high ranked cities due to new cap rules).
A low ranked city would not get a "better" rank or such similar from a court, but suffers from less rank-based corruption after court completion.
[Apart from the distance benefit which is not regarded in the smallest way in this whole consideration, all numbers only refer to rank-related corruption w/o the benefits from incorrect rank assignment as described by Qitai]
Also note that this whole thing assumes vanilla/PTW corruption rules.
I haven't studied alexman's latest corruption thread yet, but I guess it's *roughly* qualitatively the same for C3C. Well, as I understand this thread (the explanation respectively), some values & effects have been changed or added (=impact of FP/SPHQ...corruption caps in general as well as cap benefit from court etc), but the main change is correct rank assignment.
So...
quote:
do Courthouses increase the OCN? That is really new for me!
... a courthouse (etc) has only an effect for the city where it's built and how this city "sees" the relative OCN from its own viewpoint. Very, very strictly spoken, nothing can ever change the OCN other than map size or editor.
Samildanach
31-01-2004, 22:50
If its the same Soren who actually designed the corruption model then er..well he should be able to explain roughly what he has been doing. On the other hand he could be one of those coke snorting, hard boozing programmers who have to wait until they get a flashback to allow them to produce a project update. Soren:"Oh yeah...... corruption. It's all coming back to be me, man. Either, I'm a mad genius or that was really good shit!"
Sid: Please take a seat and tell us about it. And stop trying to pick the flowers from that painting...its a Picasso you know.
Soren ? snortin' coke ?
[lol] [rotfl] [lol]
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