VS SID AI's and tiny skyfish spoiler.

[Kingreno]

The start[coool]


http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Kingreno/2004121101430_start3950.JPG
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[Kingreno]

DELETED SOME SPAM, NO OFFENCE MEANT, THIS IS A CLEAN SID THREAD!

Skyfish and me agreed some additional rules in this game. In general their goal is to protect this game from ending in a SID-AI rush nightmare while we are MA-ing eachother to oblivion.

Now, how to beat Sid? [hmm]

There's a question. Lets begin with the beginning. This is an archipelago map where the human start is good, the AI average and there is a very high possibility that I (and Sky) am alone with one AI on an island. The AI will off course NOT be on my doorstep...
Based on this information and some SP experience on SiD I chose the Aztecs. Knowing we could not choose seafaring, the Aztecs have several traits I deem highly favorable. First, Agricultural is very welcome, it offers some compensation for the mad AI growthrate and will allow larger cities to get specialsts and still grow. Second, there is only one military option to be able to fight the wicked number of units the AI has, and will inevetably start producing: I need armies. Many armies. For that, I chose militaristic.
Now the UU. Well, the Jag is the only unit actually downgraded from PTW, but still, it is IMO for this game a very good unit. As suspected and shown later, a very quick map of the area to place cities well and more importantly a way to block the AI early. Jags suite that purpose very well.
Lets talk future. there is no way I will outresearch the AI. the AI's will have more techs then me, but they will not get all techs the same time, more important then ever I will need to be a techbroker, as I know very well, sky will be as well.
Tacticly, at some point I will have to kick my neighbour off the island[aargh]. If that succeeds, well, lets just stick with buildup.

My opening consisted of founding two very close cities while a jag mapped the region. Next, I will start two/three setler facts whille the rest will build chariots/horses/spears/archers and later catapults. Again, militaristic will help on the rax!
The techpath is therefore maybe surprising as I first want the wheel![:o], there is a tiny chance my neighbour has not yet got that, while there are several commercial civs in the game so alpha might be tradable. If not, it will have to fit in somewhere.

Now, after reading: Maps:


http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Kingreno/200412223526_islandstart.jpg
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As can be seen in the SE lies the brave capitol. It has a lot of (semi)productive spots nearby. I will have to calculate very carefully what will be the best placement. I am very much leaning to tight building, as it has been succesfull in the past (on deity...)

To the west a mountainous Isthmus can be seen! As expected there is more land behind it and jags are now exploring!


http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Kingreno/200412223757_isthmus.jpg
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City 6 or 7 will be founded near this site. walls, temple, rax there asap...The mountains will provide a great slaughterbase when I go to war. Our people are already talking about the pass of leaders.[lol]

Techs. Every nation has its goals. Techs will be: The Wheel-Alpha-HBR-Bronze-Iron. By this time I hope to have traded for CB at least...

[ProPain]

quote:Originally posted by Kingreno

DELETED SOME SPAM, NO OFFENCE MEANT, THIS IS A CLEAN SID THREAD!


Although I understand you want to keep your thread clean I kindly ask you not to delete posts.
Forum moderator rules (http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=129)

Nice piece of land you have, if you manage to keep the AI out of it you'll have a good productive core. Maybe a palace jump/FP to the center later??

[Kingreno]

The story continues. [cool]
After again more scouting by ferocious jags, we have found our neighbours! Our third worse choice actualy as we have found the Iroquois.[sad]
Only Ghandi would be worse since one cannot pillage the resourceless elephants, and of course Egypt with 8-shieldchariots Hiawatha was forced to build his first city in 3900bc and has been growing mad ever since. Now roughly three times my score and up at least 4 techs, including the alphabet they start with. I switch my research to the only tech they lack and I can research. Horsebackriding.[cry]



http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Kingreno/2004123231858_2nd Isthmus.jpg
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to the SW I met them. I need to keep them there!! I must hope that the horses in the "middle" island are the only ones (besides mine) so I can have some options.



http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Kingreno/2004123232025_IROS.jpg
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As expected, Hiawatha has more cities then me.[wallbash]



http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Kingreno/2004123232156_Irodealwindow.jpg
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[Kingreno]

Sacrifice. This has become a game of just that. Stripping off the extra's is Deity. Stripping down to just those tiny basic needs is Sid. I will need to decide what to strip off first.
Off course, my sciencerun on HBR failed. The Iroquois got it 8 turns before me. No matter. It is just one tech less for me, AI won't trade two techs for HBR on SiD.
To strip down. Culture, Expansion will have to wait. Infra and Mili are just to important. I have no meaning to gamble on one very lucky boat to make to another island. It is just a waste of shields. My curraghs (if i had alpha...) go only two squares. As for Culture, to even catch up to the gigantic culture of Salamance alone, let alone the other 14 cities, would be a pain indeed. We pay 60 chields for a temple (if we had CB...) and though not so bad a thing to do as the boats, it will have to wait.
What remains? Infra. The capitol is the only 4 turn fac as of yet. A second city will be in about 10 turns. The city of Tlateloco, south of Tenochtitlan, is on a worker every 2 turns. The rest will produce a rax and horses as soon as they are connected and an occasional worker when happiness becomes a problem.[crazyeye]
Horses will be connected in 12 turns.

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Kingreno/2004127214854_dotmapturn75.jpg
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The purple Dots are, you guessed it, planned cities. The Red dot indicates the spot for a possible FP, to be constructed with a leader.:D
The Yellow spot is a mountain that will see some battles. Probably.[cool]

[Pastorius]

Hehe....

But what is that green dot in the NE?

[Aggie]

Isn't there an ishtmus to the NE of your homeland? It appears so on the maps, but it can just as well be sea.

[Kingreno]

@ Aggie, there appears to be no other passage to the NE.

1300BC. The Aztec Empire is growing. Our second 4-turn-setler factory at Texcoco is in operation, however, since it is too far from the capitol to get enough uncorrupted shields it can only produce 4 clean setlers using the four forrest tiles. That, by all means is sufficient. Tenochtitlan will do the rest. Tlateloco is a dedicated workerfac and will continue to be just that.
We are beginning to feel the strain of having just 1 luxury, and worse, no hope of getting more. It is something not all that uncommon on Archipelagomaps, but on SiD I hoped for two at least. It means that at size three most cities will need MP or enough commerce to keep the people happy. I have no idea yet how to get larger cities without having lux at 40%. [cry]
Also, my Iroquois Neighbour has not been spending time in the bushes. Hiawattha is pacing through the Ancient age like Schumacher in his ferrari. The worst off all being the discovery made from the F7-screen:


http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Kingreno/2004131113445_GreatLighthouse.jpg
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This is truly terrible! I can no longer block them from the middle island and I expect galleys very very soon. To make matters worse, a few turns ago hiawattha turned up on the diploscreen with Zero cash. While still a despot, that can mean only one thing: he knows someone.[help] At least that is what the AIA thinks, I for one, have never seen the AI go broke without knowing anyone before. It always keeps at least 10 gold or not?[hmm][wallbash]
Now for good news;
[sleep]
well,


http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Kingreno/2004131113913_Horsesconnected.jpg
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Techwise, as can be seen, we have HBR! Next turn, we will also acquire Bronze Working. We run a decent Science rate as I already decided only to buy techs from Iro's when absolutely needed. I had 42 (or so) beakers invested in BW (total 72) with 2 truns to go, Hiawattha wanted 9gpt + 61 gold!!![aargh]
We will research Alpha ourselves (13 turns).

The Demographics also allowed for some nice details, the most astounding being that I was at one point 6th in MFG. 6th! One of the AI's is being hammered![estwing] (I checked and it is not on zero as in anarchy[rolleyes]) Me and Sky have been on and off on 7th/8th on most area's, though he seems to lead by Pop and area for some time now, which by the least does not concern me. He is Industrious and has probably build his first cities a bit further apart. I, on the other hand seem to be a bit better on the money/commerce.

Our lands in 1300BC:


http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Kingreno/2004131114813_1250BCmap.jpg
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Nothing too fancy here, cities will be placed by the dotmap provided in an earlier post.
To conclude this update a short view upon the brave lads near the Iro lands:


http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Kingreno/2004131115042_1300BCisthmus.jpg
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The northern unit has already been ordered to proceed towards the Hut. As soon as an Iro setler/warrior (no no not a spear![rant]) land near it I will pop it and the barbs (what else??) will kill them. Period.

[Kingreno]

1100BC. As predicted, the Iroquois' foul galleys have evaded my blocking party on the Isthmus. Throwing many, many jaguarclubs at them from the cliffs whilst making very funny sounds did not scare them. They have landed on the middle island. The Spear ([rant]) with a setler even withstood the barbarians released upon them from the goody hut.


http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Kingreno/20042511626_1100BCistm.jpg
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To make matters worse:


http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Kingreno/20042511510_Greatwall.jpg
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It would be very very unfortunate if the Iro's, off all wonders, build the great wall. It would mean [wallbash] for may jags and horses.
In the meantime, we are racing to settle our lands as soon as possible. We cannot have any Iro presence on our peninsula at all, or all will be lost (sort off).


http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Kingreno/20042511755_1100BCarea.jpg
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As can be seen Tlalmanalco is situated on the west side of the "pass of leaders". It will be there that the battle will take place, Our spears will occupy the mountains with catapults and horses should do the rest. At least that is the plan.[mischief]

To conlude a short spoilerupdate the Demographics:


http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Kingreno/200425111046_1100BCf11.jpg
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[Kingreno]

750BC.

Well, more questions. More answers too.
Why is Sky so heavily outscoring me (by 100 points now) while in area I seem to stay close and I am even overtaking him there. In pop he leads but marginal, by far not enough for 100 points difference. What else determines score? [cry]Happiness
I have but a single lux which means very few happy faces all over. On MSN chitchat I estimate Sky has at least 3 luxuries!![aargh]
I do not know to what degree I have been "had" here but needless to say that it would mean a very serious problem.[wallbash]
I have thusfar played to the max of my abilities and put a shitload of time into a plan, and the fulfillment of this plan. I do not, in any way want to put an end to this game. yet.
There remains more to be investigated on this issue and as we have not met yet, I have not had the chance to see it with my own eyes. So for now. lets prepare.

The western outskirts:


http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Kingreno/200427224120_750BCarea.jpg
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No big things here. I have halfroaded towards the Irolands and left it to that. there are more galleys on their way to settle here. Good enws is that my part of the map is mine alone.:D So thank god for small favors.


http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Kingreno/200427224259_750bcareaeast.jpg
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Every unit will be send to the west, apart from a contingent of warriors for Mili police in key cities. Also, some curraghs have been sent on suicidals besides earlier plans. Call it faith, call it the booze, call it Whateffah.
Any comments?

[anarres]

Can we see the minimap? Also what is your current tech strategy?

You seem to have a good plot of land, I presume you are planning a war soon for a GL to build the FP?

[Kingreno]

And so the news is out. I have one luxury while Sky has 4 (domestic). This is by no means intended neither by the players or the Mapmaker and was just a mistake.

There is no way I will quit this game now!!!!, even when it turns out to be a sitting in the dark till the nukes drop game for me. Sky still has a decent chance and if I am to sit by I will do just that.
Besides, I am not a quitter and I still see chances. [hmm]

So what do we do next? What does it mean to have just a single while Sky has 4 is a question that is not that hard to answer. It will allow him; bigger cities, more trading, more whipping, more WLTKD, more commerce and probably more important, a 100% luxrate or taxrate.
I have now ended the landgrabphase (except for the capitol) and my cities require a 30% luxrate. [sad]

As requested, the minimap:

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Kingreno/20042916453_minimap700bc.JPG
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So what else happened and what are the cicles doing there?

I have met the French! They are probably near my continent as I spotted a French curragh several turns after Joan completed the Lighthouse. The French are advanced but that is no big deal. My techcosts just got cut in half!!! I bought 3 techs from the Iro's for a total of 100g+18gpt. I now have math (cata's!). I have no writing however and thus I have no idea if these clowns have war, though I doubt it judging from the direction the curragh came. I estimete the french being in or near the Pink circle. Obviously the Iro's are in the purple circle. The White circle is a very nice Nuevo Zembla where Montezuma will order Nuclear tests (once we can get there without sinking).
Also, I send a curragh south and the Captain DID IT. survived 5 turns of heavy weather finding the BACKWARD egyptians. Cleo is in my age and only leads by Mysticism, Writing and IW. She has no currency!!! I am not able to buy yet though.[wallbash]
Here is the pic of the boat that made it:

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Kingreno/20042916529_egypt650BC.jpg
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Netx turn will be crucial because if the boat makes it again...well, then we have a new continent to explore, and maybe meet Cleos neighbour, if she has one (probably not seeing the techrate)

Domestic issues: I have to MM everything to keep the people happy. As can be seen here it is touch and go at the moment.



http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Kingreno/200429165438_650BCf2.jpg
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That is all for now, the next update will come soon.:D

[ProPain]

So you have a clue if the Iro's have some luxes you trade/war for?

[Aggie]

@Kingreno: While following both your and Skyfish's spoiler it soon became very aware to me that something was wrong. I never expected that the game would advance as it did (both of you got far more land than I expected). So I stopped checking things outside your immediate range. As it turns out this was a mistake and so far it appears to be the only biggie, which makes it even worse for me. Sorry for the unbalancing situation [cry]

EDIT: I see that I even made a huge mistake (regarding luxuries) on the original landmasses [headstab]

[Kingreno]

[estwing] We have passed the one-hundred-turns-mark![jumpD]

That by itself is great and due to our ever-present Aztec Intelligence centre we have knowledge that sky is nearly a republic. Something very very good. For him, and perhaps when we meet and talk about things, it is probably ok for me too. I will never be a republic and therefor have not pursued it from the very beginnings of the game. I have problems with keeping the crowd happy in despotism with the one lux, let alone the huge trouble (a war in) Republic would give me. So, the goal is now Feudalism. Whcih is still a damned bit too far now.[sad]

But heads up troops. First, the area:


http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Kingreno/20042151646_area104.jpg
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As can be seen, the randstad is full, very very full. But not so full that a few more cities won't fit. [:o]
Also, the vast majority of cities is to full military production now. I will soon reach the unit limit and that will mean decisiontime, to get an idea of how things look, the F3-screen.



http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Kingreno/20042151680_f3104.jpg
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well, enough workers! 34, it is off the screen. [mischief] That kind'a helped getting up in MFG and is the ONLY reason I continue this game. But these workers will soon be left without any relevant business to conduct and some will be joined to cities, depending on other factors.
For the rest, horses, spears and cata's now. I still need to decide upon the time of attack. The good thing is that Hiawattha recently opened an embassy in Tenochtitlan so I now know: He is at war with the French! Good: Troops on other side of me, Bad: Build troops cheap and many. Good: Golden age for sure!
Also, it allowed me a look at his capitol from a distance and, in the Fog:


http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Kingreno/2004215161316_Salamancaturn104.jpg
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NOT GOOD! [wallbash]
First, it is just as productive as my lands and horses on his *** doorstep. Goodluck Jaguar-pillaging party[cry]

[ProPain]

I'd disband those ordinary warriors if I were you and replace em with some decent units when you reach unit limit

[Kingreno]

Some curraghs got lucky! I met the Otto's, who in score are a lot smaller then the rest of the AI. Later I also met a Mayan Curagh:



http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Kingreno/200421612594_skymeet.jpg
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Sky is, as expected in the Middle ages and also in anarchy. Ass.
we debated on Msn on what will happen now. I still do not know. Continue normally will mean a very impossible mission for me. Sky has an easy republic with 4 luxes and may even be able to get into the Industrial age without problems. I have to get into some kind of war. If sky gave me X, then how high should X be to call it "even" meaning compensation for the unbalanced map/lux?? So if say, sky gets me all his techs, is it a fair game then?[hmm]

[Aggie]

I think giving you all the techs would be fair, but you should also get compensation for the luxuries. But who am I to comment :(

I assume that you both want to continue and play on in a relatively balanced game...

[Kingreno]

And time for an other update. As said, Sky is way ahead of me and we agreed to make a deal, he brought me in the MA for 30gpt. Considdering circumstances a fair deal for 7 techs. I thus have all ancient techs and am now motivating a single scientist towards Feudalsim, only 43 turns to go. The choice on gov was not easy, feudalism requires a very different playstile, it has warweariness and worse, my experience with feudalism is near zero. But there is no other way to go. I have 28 cities, 23 of which will never grow beyond size 6 if I do not get at least one extra lux, that is including the luxslider at 30%. Doing the math, 23*5+5*2=125 free units, in despotism, that is 112 (28*4) in Monarchy 23*2+4*5=66. So feudalism is better IMHO, if anyone disagrees I would be more then willing to hear arguments, though the word republic may be forgotten.:D

As for the situation. I know 7/8 of the civs, with only Korea not on my christmascardlist. The Koreans are doing okay however and are very likely Sky's neighbours as he has a Korean worker for some time now. Sky does not know I do not know the Koreans and he delivers decent info on them trough MSN, like them starting a wonder. [evil]

I currently am paying Sky and Hiawattha gpt-deals, the latter being done in 5 turns, which will mean war. I have no other choice and hope to get a leader (5 would be okay). Hia is still very much busy with Joan, so that is a very big plus. [cool]


http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Kingreno/2004217125152_areaturn122.jpg
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The area looks as it has looked for ages now. My top 8 cities have rax and markets now, mili all the way. The FP is slowly getting their, though often starvation is the only option for the (lazy) constructors.[whipped]
In the western "pass of leaders" the main military resides, ever ready for an attack on irolands.



http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Kingreno/2004217125622_122istmus.jpg
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Tlalmanalco has rax, a temple and will have walls in 7. The mountain range will be fortified to provide Zone of control and extra defence. I am still in doubt if I will add baricades. I could put one in the grassland before Tlalmanalco, but if that falls, I will be attacking Iro-units protected by the same barraicades...so probably that will not happen.
Idealy I will get feudalism very soon so I can upgrade teh spears to pikes. With enough arty support they should be able to kill many.
My Military:


http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Kingreno/200421713118_122f3.jpg
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As seen, I am already exceeding the free number of units, but SidSod's (new word?) are not to be underestimated...

The civs:



http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Kingreno/2004217131121_122f4.jpg
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Two wars going on here, with the Iro-Franco being the vital one, for me. As for techs, I am par with India, the rest is up Mon,Rep,Feu,Eng,Inv and Gunp. Some have Mono,Theo. Sky has rep and probably one MA-tech.

To show yoy that the AI's have not been downgraded too much, take a look at the French Capitol of Paris:



http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Kingreno/2004217131438_122embassyparis.jpg
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With 6 Bonusgrass, some hills and 3 cattle, and all on fresh water and the sea. [eek]

For now, we prepare for war.

[ProPain]

stupid joan shoudl build a marketplace instead of that almost useless great lib.

[Aggie]

My intention when making the map was to give you two a great and equal start ([wallbash]) with plenty of space to expand. I did consider giving the AI's a terrible starting position, but why not play deity then? It appears that you two had different thoughts about it reading the spoilers, but that did not occur to me.

[Kingreno]

quote:Originally posted by Aggie

My intention when making the map was to give you two a great and equal start ([wallbash]) with plenty of space to expand. I did consider giving the AI's a terrible starting position, but why not play deity then? It appears that you two had different thoughts about it reading the spoilers, but that did not occur to me.


Hey man, forget it!, I am happy to see the AI got a decent start. As you say, why not play deity then. [goodjob]
The few less lux, for now it got me all the ancient era techs for just 30 gpt from Sky, so what the hell. [lol]

[Aggie]

Kingreno, thanks...I didn't mean the last comment so harsh at it may seem :)

[Kingreno]

It has been a while since this was updated so here is another, slighly hopefull, update[coool].

First, very important and contrary to earlier posts, we have not selected feudalism as our new goverment.[eek]. Testing showed that in this type of situation and predicted growth of my military, Monarchy is better. Here is why.
I intend, in the longer run, to attack the Iro cities in the middle-island, and razing them. Scouts report that this area is filled with workers as well. I myself have 40 homemade workers and in a few turns they will be DONE on my turf. Everything has been improved, and that is a great achievement by itself.[goodjob]
These aztec workers will, as soon as we are Monarchy, be joined to our cities who lack the population, thus generating size seven cities that will support 4. Either way, I will go beyond the free units limit and that means 3 gpld per unit in feudalism, added to ww. No thanx! The Aztecs are now a MONARCHY!
Off course, the obligatory NINE turns of anarchy preceded this in which we were forced to buy furs from France to keep 35% of our poppoints from starvation.[sad]
But those days are over.[party]



http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Kingreno/200422123018_450area.jpg
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As soon as we went Monarchy I did some upgrading (5 swords to MI) and declared WAR on my neighbours, the Iroquois. A turn later, a great victory where a scouting jag defeated a knight ([:o]) gave our great great civ a GOLDEN AGE!
I immediately ordered full taxes (8.0.2) and we made 500gpt which was all converted to military. It was very welcome, quite soon Iro stacks attacked the mountainguards but nothing came even close. the 20 catapults and trebuchets pumped them all down in hp. MI and horses did the rest.

Trades. I soon bought: Engineering, Mono, Invention and Chivalry! The latter I traded to sky for Theology.
These deals costs me 187 gpt [rolleyes], divided over France an Korea.
All cities have build markets and cathedrals now and finaly happiness is managable. Good news too is that we'll get to trading with our beloved Mayan brothers soon, meaning 2 more luxes will arrive in Tenochtitlan.

But the war.


http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Kingreno/2004221222434_440adistmus.jpg
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As can be seen, the line held. However, the passage has been renamed now; the formerly 'pass of leaders' is now the "pass of where the f*** is that leader".

The middle Island! Please note that Coyotepec is new foubded next to Iroquois ruins of a size 10 city! [estwing]


http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Kingreno/2004221222655_440adwarzone.jpg
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The next turns:


http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Kingreno/2004221222743_450goigouenpre.jpg
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and:


http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Kingreno/200422122289_450goigouenpost.jpg
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And we move on.
Off course, we are not alone in our rightfull couse, the Mayans are helping too! Uhm, they have sent a curragh! but that is for sightseeing alone. [cry]
how about you Joan?



http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Kingreno/2004221223329_440adf4.jpg
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Yes yes yes!!! [goodjob]
Joan will keep them busy, while I take the land. I hope.

Also, Sky sends me 2 luxes and the republic for free (yeah, everyone else has it and I am never ever going to be a republic, but thanx anyway.) So the f2:

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Kingreno/2004221225912_440adf2.jpg
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[goodjob]

For now, we march towards Salamanca! [soldier]

again, any comments.questions are welcome.

EDIT: a turn later I razed Gayagaahe and got a LEADER:D

[anarres]

Can we get the turn number and the minimap please?

[Kingreno]

Sure!
turn 162 now and:



http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Kingreno/20042227174_450minimap.jpg
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where:

I am dark green[:p]
the Iro's are purple,
Joan is Pink
Egypt yellow
India Grey
Ottomans Orange
Koreans Lila (?)
Maya blue (bottom right)

I am connected to Iroquois and France by land.

[Kingreno]

A new update forced by some very intensive turns.

We are now at turn 170, the year: 550AD

To my surprise, and undoubtly my happiness, still none of my opponents are in the Industrial age! This is great, with all the scientifics around, Nationalism and hence, riflemen, are not something I look forward too. But as it stands now, we are using Knights rather well! [goodjob]

First, techs: I have done a little trading and now just 6 techs away from IA. With the world at war I have solely bought techs with GPT including some sort of alliance. AI is generaly a treatybreaker so it got me several techs quite cheap. The biggest fish was undoubtly Education, whcih I bought for 110gpt and 3 gold from France, with an MA vs the Iroquois. A single turn later Joan signed peace with them, netting me the tech for 3 gold! [lol]
I instantly bought Banking (our goal!!!) from Joan the next turn for 150 gpt and a renewed MA vs the Iro's! Needless to say, that in my position, France and Iro need to be at war ALL the time.
Next, India lacked banking and that gave me Gunpowder, with me throwing in 3 gpt.[hmm]

We are building Banks, which is good, since I need cash, which also sucks, because I need Knights. For now, I will desperately try to minimize losses.
The Homelands, notice a MAYAN boat in the far south, the fishy Frenchman is Mapping my Island!!![aargh]


http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Kingreno/20043311550_550homelandarea.jpg
93.31KB

I would never do that!!! That is my territory Sky...


http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Kingreno/200433115615_550skylands.jpg
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Great fish here btw, oh is that a mayan town?[rolleyes]

The peacefull area has been just that for ages. Naturally Hiawattha tried to break this peaceful time but a brave spear defeated the unwelcome Mounted warrior landed near the capitol! Thank god that was not a knight...
The best news of the day is perhaps that the middle island is MINE!


http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Kingreno/20043312730_550ADmiddleclean.jpg
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I have wiped out every last Iro settlement on the middle island and last turn I razed two large cities[party]
The next turn will be very very important as the battle for the last city before the real Iro homeland gave victory but also left the defence a bit open.[cry]
I must hold on there ONE more turn and then a fortress and later barricade will provide enough defence.


http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Kingreno/20043312521_550closeupbattle.jpg
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The musketman in a fortress guards 2 knigts and a spear. Further behind, hopefully are not too may fast units. The elite knight of mine guards 3 3hpknight, a 3hp pike, a 4hp pike, 2 MI, a sword and two horses. Further behind are the artilery with MI/knights/Pikes and some Jags. Next turn, the former stack desperately needs to hold the position.[rant]
The plan is to keep the Iro at bay as long as the homelands are doing banks. Once the financial situation is up and running, I will start to produce mili again. There is no way I will considder peace with the Iro yet, I will need to whipe them out completely...all of them.[evil]

For a conclusion some standard screenies:
the minimap,


http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Kingreno/20043312137_550minimap.jpg
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And the F11, I am still last in pop...damnit. On the bright side, out of a GA for ages now, I am still second in MFG!

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Kingreno/200433121349_550adf11.jpg
19.17KB

Again, all comments and questions are welcome!:D

[Aggie]

Brilliant job [thumbsup] Amazing that you are able to push a strong civ like the Iroquois back. Also, the F11 looks very good!

[Kingreno]

Thx Aggie:D

Some MSNrequested shots and great news on the last turn, the stack survived. All knights are hurt and elite, one of the MI died. No problemo!!
Hiawatthe was even knid enough to settle ON THE FORTRESS!!! thus reducing max defence there!!


http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Kingreno/20043312513_560huhhesetled.jpg
21.43KB

Of course, I settled too;


http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Kingreno/200433125150_560huhisetletoo.jpg
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The town will hold, with 14 artillerytype units and 14 knights as well as some smaller stuff.[goodjob]

The Iroquois homeland, a study of invasion:



http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Kingreno/200433125315_560irolands.jpg
67.66KB

And to the north of that, Iro-Franco wars:



http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Kingreno/200433125425_560irofrancelands.jpg
82.83KB

[Kingreno]

)Short update:

The bad news: Several AI's have entered the Industrial Age. Also, Skyfish is following them there!!! [help]
But on side note, a very very good accomplishment indeed! I am already proud of what he (and me too a little[blush]) has done so far! It is an honor to play so fine an "opponent".
I think this game brings many new lessons to us both, and perhaps you lurkers as well. Knowing that even on sid, al be it with good starts (for the AI as well!!!) it is possible to win!

And now, the worst news. India declared war on Egypt and thus My trade route to ghandi was lost...[wallbash][wallbash][wallbash].
The morons recieved Ivory from me and now everyone is talking about the untrustworthy Aztecs...[aargh] If they ever gonna fix something they better fix this. THEY broke the route by going to war. IT SUCKS!!!!!! :(:(:(:(:(:(
Not only does this very much limit my gpt for tech deals (well, at least the civs at war with gandhi do not mind my "betrayal"), it also means that other civs attitudes have worsened a lot towards me. And there, the razing of several size 12 Iroquois cities didn't make them happy as well. I must now seriously look out for an invasion of some kind when some AI has some units to spare.[cry]

For this very unfortunate turn of events the Aztecs have called upon their best to perform above duty and that brings us to the good news of the day:



http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Kingreno/200435182245_secondleader.jpg
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[party][party][party] My second leader after soooo many elite victories. I used him for the Heroic Epic in an Isthmustown, thus increasing much needed local culture. Whether it was wise to that is debatable. I could have built the Epic in Tenochtitlan, requiring 9 turns, but I simply needed the bank there as well (7 turns), to get an extra 15 gpt. So now, it is bank in tenochtitlan and one leader used for the Epic. But I do not fear, I have more and more Elites every turn. [goodjob]

France has Cav now and that narrows the landgrabbingwindow I have. 10 settlers and hordes of knights are making extra hours in getting to the front. Next Target: Oil springs (and its load of culture).

[Kingreno]

A LOT has happened over the last turns.

For starters, Sky is attacking the Koreans and for Ubersecurity has put the world, except the faithfull aztecs, up against them. You can check HIS spoiler for details (I think?).
So how are we doing?

My rep, fortunately, is not that hurt as I thought, they will not trade resources for gpt deals with me, but then again I have not many goods to sell have I?:D

The deals: I am in the Industrial Age![eek]
I bought Physics from the French and then, when the 150gpt for banking deal was over, I traded 168 gpt for Magnetism. I sold That to egypt for ToG, with me handing a little extra cash (damn 41 gpt!!!).
Before all this however I bought Chemistry and Metalurgy from sky, for 40gpt and 250 cash. [cool]. This was almost half the price Joan wanted.
I am now looking for ways to get either Nationalism (mobilise!!) or MilTrad (cav). Neither is available for my depleted treasury just yet.[hmm]
On the bright side, we are in the next age![party]

Also, the war goes well!

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Kingreno/200437202754_700adleader.jpg
50.68*KB

And Several turns later:



http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Kingreno/20043720294_CAPTUREDSALA.jpg
70.69*KB

Oh yeah! That is the Capitol! Joan helped. a bit. :D
The Peninsula now holds a mere 4 Iroquois cities, and without resources, longbows are the best unit they can build.


http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Kingreno/200437203126_770overviewwar.jpg
63.05*KB

As can be seen I had to capture two Iroquois cities. First, Grand river because it has Knights Templar, second is Alleghny, where there was no settler of mine. The French have an estimated 20 cav in the area but most are very wounded. they are pressing me hard for the control of the last Iroquois lands, but somehow they lack addequate reinforcements?[cool]

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Kingreno/200437203439_770frnchblokade.jpg
27.44*KB

For the next turns, it is a battle for the last Iro cities, after that...well, I am not going to let my fine troops go to waste Joan d'Arc.[evil]

[Aggie]

[eek] DUDE [eek]

[Kingreno]

Time for an update. Again, a lot has happened as sky and me are entering the 1000AD's. :D

From the last update, I have taken allmost all Iroquois cities! Some had to go to France but I took the bigger ones, including Mauch Chunk and more importantly Niagra Falls!! netting me Magellans voyage, [hmm].
To confirm Aztec conquest of this wonder the town was renamed to: VIAGRA FALLS[party].


http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Kingreno/2004325164058_Viagrafalls.jpg
35.7KB

Several turns, and several flips later, the brave Egyptians destroyed the last Iroquois outpost for me, on an island far far away!

Peace...NOT!!!

A Turn after this all France declares WAR on me in the interturn, grabbing 5 helpless cities and some 20 units. I was paying Joan over 380 gpt at that time, and gave her Saltpeter as well!! Unbelievable.
In big trouble I desperately tried to establish some sort of core to defend myself as Gigantic SoD's entered my lands.



http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Kingreno/2004325162821_1020sods.jpg
76.26KB

As can be seen, I also have railroads now, so all cities are linked. In the north, my Knightarmy is pillaging Joans supplylines, so I estimate about 140 rifles and 30 cav in the area that used to belong to the Iroquois. However, though many rifles are vets, a large part of them are also conscript (about a third). The Good thing is, that first, Joan put all her Cav (I know now) on a mountain north of New Atzcapotzalco, and as you see, I killed them all with 40 canon and 37 cav, leaving 7 cav dead on my side.
Second, I have no rifles, but I do have cannon, and a lot too! Third, I gave joan Saltpeter before the war, and now I MA/Trade-embargoed the world against her, so no more cav for her!

Off course, Tonawanda flipped with many units and an army in it as well. At first I though 19 cav, but luckily I moved 12 off them away to city with rax just in time. No matter, we will go on.

It still sucks a bit. Sky is sweeping the otto's and koreans with Inf/tanks ([help]), while I struggle to keep alive. For now it works, as more and more losses mount up on french side. On average I lose 3 units per turn and 2 in the interturn, while Joan loses about 20-40 units every turn. Adding to that, I have build factories in most cities now, and the IW in tenochtitlan (80 Spt!!):[evil]



http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Kingreno/2004325164642_1030adtenocht.jpg
124.14KB
My plan?
Well, sky will win, whether he wants space, diplo or domination, he will win. But I have bigger...uh...smaller fish to fry! I want Paris. period. I also want to be in the UN-vote, even when sky builds it and won't have a vote, I want to be in it. Therefor I need to get to 2nd place in population. The thing that will do that is: yes, French lands! Check the f11:



http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Kingreno/200432516403_1040f11.jpg
80.65KB

the minimap:


http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Kingreno/2004325164146_1010minimap.jpg
9.27KB

[Aggie]

I once held UN elections in a PBEM and there the other human player was also in the vote (my third game vs Jack Merchant). Despite the fact that he was 4th at best overall.

[anarres]

UN votes held by a player *always* have both humans in. Not sure about more than 2 humans or if the AI holds the vote.

[Kingreno]

The first World war!:D

Everyone is currently (1150 AD, turn 229) at war. The F4:

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Kingreno/2004411105956_1150adF4.jpg
55.6KB

As can be seen, the Maya and the Aztecs are still the best friends in the world. [hmm]. Sky is still very powerfull and has cleaned is Island! That is truely amazing. Unfortunately, he has a flip a turn and that means an occasional blue or orange spot shows up in his lands. Nothing horrible though, he manages to retake the towns with ease. Off course having loads of infantry helps him[aargh].
Enough about him, read his spoiler for that. There are also honorable wars going on.[cool]

The French are biting the dust!!! I am kicking their ass at an ever increasing pace. The balance turned my way after the destruction of two HUGE SoD's in turns 226 and 227. Over 50 (!!!) French rifles were destroyed at the loss of only 6 Aztec Cavalry! I now have 6 Cav Armies and over 60 Canons. I also have my 2 armies of Knights and one army of Muskets.
Techwise, I bought the Coorporation from the Koreans, which I sold to teh Egyptians for cash. I also noticed that Sky at that time did NOT have teh Coorporation, a bit weird as he claimed to be 1 turn away from Tanks at that moment.[lol]. He may have Electronics but he sure as hell is not close to Tanks!
I Used the coorporation to the fullest by building stocks in all major cities. The battle with the Sod's allowed me this as I could actually afford to not build military for a while. It raised my income to 888 gpt (350 goes to Techdeals, 100 goes to luxes, 50 goes to MA's vs the French) Also, I now have a huge number of small cities (size 2 to 5) and am planning to build a LOT more. I ( plan to ) Irrigate(d) all lands in the middle area and thus each small city (95% corrupt) has several tax collectors, giving me an ADDITIONAL 188+ Gpt and rising every turn! Dense city placement with these "new" c3c specialists is great!:)
The F1:


http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Kingreno/2004411113335_1150adF1.jpg
13.42KB

I also suffer from a total pathetic culture.[:o]. I have 1 to 3 flips a turn and only lady luck has prevented a flip to egypt. They were all to France![crazyeye], and easily retaken.

The Pics:
First, the minimap of turn 229, 1150 AD

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Kingreno/2004411111252_1150adminimap.jpg
9.66KB

The core, the eastern part of my lands: Wall Street in 2!

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Kingreno/200441111177_1150adeastlands.jpg
98.68KB

The middle area, people complain about overcrowding and WAY too many taxcollectors.[goodjob]

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Kingreno/2004411111911_1150admiddlelands.jpg
69.05KB

The Western area, former Iroquois lands, I plan to densesettle this area within 30 turns (aprox 15 new cities). Also, my workers are almost done Railroading middle and east, so this is next, providing larger growth and thus more taxcollectors.
It is here that most flips take place, for example Tonawanda last turn, it has 1 iroquois, 2 Aztecs and ONLY ONE ****ING French Citizen in it. [wallbash][wallbash][wallbash]

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Kingreno/2004411112121_1150adwestlands.jpg
92.53KB

As you expect, to the north of this alst Picture lies France. The Warzone looks like this:


http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Kingreno/200441111262_1150adwarzone.jpg
87.72KB

there is a setler of mine with tha army south of Bayonne. It will settle next turn, allowing the approach to Bayonne itself. I will also move some canon to the hill near brest.
Amiens should fall next turn, as it will be bombarded by 40 canon (40% will hit, and they will always target Hitpoints). I plan to take the eastern part soon as it holds Coal and furs.

Also, one of my armies went deep into French lands a long time ago. It arrived at the gates of Paris!!!

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Kingreno/2004411113056_1130adnotrade.jpg
23.18KB

Stupid Joan did NOT build a harbor in Paris, so the trade deal with the Evil Mayans ended after the last pillaging![:p]
With Nationalism in 9 turns (single scientist) I leave this spoiler, again, comments are welcome.

@ Aggie and Anarres, thanx about the UN info. Did not know humans were always included...[blush]

[anarres]

Looking great KR, but I didn't know Cannon only targets HP! [:o]

[Kingreno]

Montereno claims Victory over French is inevitable!

The French SoD's have diminished! They seldom get to double diggits anymore!
As we speak Aztec forces hold the french Capitol of Paris hostage. No food and other goods are allowed into the city. The French Government , the Fascist Joan Itself, hostages of the Aztec cavalry.
In the rest of the lands, Aztec armies and Artillery are pounding the few remaining cties, while new settlers found new Aztec cities in conquered lands.


http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Kingreno/200441594653_1230adareafrance.jpg
85.6KB

Details:

Dijon will fall next turn, 4 cav and one army attacking.
Chartres will fall next turn, 2 cav and one army attacking
On sid, the ai avergaes 3 to 4 defensive units in tundracities. I do not know if they used more units from these cities in attempts to defend other places of more importance.
Rheims has a stack of 40 canons north of it, to be joined by 2 armies next turn and already holding 15 cav. It will fall in two.
Tours is sceduled for 4 turns, leaving only three cities on this island: Paris, the capitol. Marseiles, holding SUNTZU's! and Orleans, PYRAMIDS![evil]
I estimate 6 turns, for the capture of these 3!

The siege of Paris:


http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Kingreno/200441595423_1230adparisseige.jpg
32.31KB

Paris stll holds a load of riffles. But not enough Joan!

The future,

Obviously, French overseas settlements will have to be conquered. Flips are still very very common and I plan to eliminate french existence as soon as possible.
However, we must look at a bigger picture. Techwise, only Skyfish is far ahead. All AI have Nationalism, Communism and Fascism. I will have Nationalism in one turn (ai will not trade for it, never). After that, I will have to do my research myself! The AI are just too slow in researching things and with Ottomans' and French existence not expected to continue long, this is the way to go. Sky already informed me he wants India and Egypt as well, and with these two already at war, I do not see them researching a lot right now.

Off course, there is a tiny problem....I seem to be a monrachy and I have yet to build my first Library![lol]
Therefore I have ordered an emidiate stop to building of military units, and have ordered libs and uni's in every (semi-) productive city. Also, I have irrigated almost every square that is not on my the eastern part of teh empire, allowing tremendous growth in the many many cities there. I expect to have over 500 sciencebeakers per turn (using specialists!)there within 5 turns. With the pyramids in aztec possesion soon as well, we will grow very very fast. [party]
I am naturally still behind sky, but he may not find out that I am doing research myself (forgive the single scientist). I have to nail in a 2fer with india/egypt! This game suddenly has some possibilities left! Sky may lead, but his conquered land is very unproductive compared to mine. And also, he will have to pay top price for all techs, while I can follow. [cool]

[Kingreno]

Island Cleaned!

And that is just that! The Rampaging Aztec forces have cleaned their island of any non-aztec presence. We have captured the "great four" French cities that have dominated our lands culturaly for such a long time. Paris, Rheims, Marseilles and for years the worlds top city Orleans are NOW AZTEC! this pic is from 1140ad:

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Kingreno/2004428113321_1260adislandismine.jpg
73.3*KB

The void.

As we focussed om money and guns for practicly the entire game we feel the void of the completion of a task. Of course there are French settlements on islands but those are hardly a danger. The flips have become less frequent with Rennes (new cap) being so far away from the ever shrinking French towns in my possesion.
We have also engaged in a new way of diplomacy and that is the cold war with the Mayans. As Mayan forces are supperior in quality and they research things we cannot even start a min-run on,[hmm], we need a new plan.
Proclaimed in the last post, we already started building scientific buildings. Libs and Uni's are now a common sight in the core, and even under a monarchy I say research is decent. How come you say? well, in the year 1320AD the Aztec empire has 247 specialists! And increasing every turn, giving an ADDITIONAL 750 beakers a turn! This surely is a massive contribution!
Our F1:


http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Kingreno/2004428114121_1230f1.jpg
18.95*KB

Some facts:
-the 307 to other civs expires next turn[cool]
-the 61 from other civs expires in 9 turns.
-I have 554 "normal" science and 741 beakers from specialists. combined this is (damned hangover!!![crazyeye]) 1295 beakers, which I hope to get up to 1500 a.s.a.p.

An example of how 1 of the 110 cities look that do not belong to the 30 core (for 140 total[coool])



http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Kingreno/2004428121040_1230viagrafalls.jpg
112.67*KB

The research:

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Kingreno/200442811472_1230f6.jpg
88.51*KB

Some facts and assumptions:

- India and France have Com and Fasc over me.
- Egypt has com, fasc, ref and scimeth over me.
- sky has all these, the radiotree and Steel and maybe espionage.[help]

Naturaly steel is "the" tech to get for me. I am able to research most techs in about 8-9 turns. This seems very slow but it is pretty decent. techs are expensive on sid.

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Kingreno/2004428115257_1230f4.jpg
49.11*KB

Well, 3 down, 4 to go.[lol]

The war: I am still fighting France, a little.

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Kingreno/2004428115756_1230amhibians.jpg
67.49*KB

The minimap:
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Kingreno/200442811592_1230minimap.jpg
10.04*KB

Sky tells me on MSN, with his usual 5% reliabilityfactor, that he plans to take on India. Well, I do not care. I tell him it sucks that egypt has Inf now, sinc ei was *just* about to attack them too. A lie, of course. This brings us to the earlier mentioned cold war:


http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Kingreno/200442812247_1280skyinvasion.jpg
63.14*KB

I took this city from France and this is the northern tip of *his* island, so let it be known the Aztec presence on the other island was achieved in 1280 ad![party]
This infuriated sky (expected). Even more when I went for a look with the remaining two cav only to see that his cities are Empty. Being the backstabber I am...I MSN-ed him I took the cities, which sparked some very nice reactions (all the way up to nukes). Naturaly I did nothing but look, took no cities, and even abandonned the former French city.
Sky, still not amused, instabuild a new city there... in honor of me! [love]


http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Kingreno/20044281274_1230fuckofrenout.jpg
48.61*KB

[mwaha] I followed this by also naming soem of my cities after him near his dirty little curragh:

http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Kingreno/2004428115931_1320francelands.jpg
75.87*KB

For the future I will found more and more cities and more and more "whitecoats" will be seen on the streets o my empire. The way to go now is to research and to catch up to sky. I must keep him away from domination and as long as I do that, I am fine.

Any Questions/comments/tips, always a pleasure.

[Kingreno]

Recent events have led me to decide the game is over.[sad]

On summary, I had a great game but I just cannot continue.

At least I got 4777 points on Sid!:)

[Pastorius]

Well done nonetheless. I wouldnt even have lasted through the ancient age [crazyeyes]

[anarres]

Well, I guess you know that you can play Sid now KR! [thumbsup]