Since you guys don't have one, I made it for you! [groucho]
Melifluous
18-12-2003, 22:42
yeah dudes
like erm BUMP
Melifluous
A lot has happened. Anarres is annoying us with his scouts, he pillaged 2 of my tiles and 1 of his Kemals, We took out 2 scouts. apparently he doesnt build warrior, my 3 warrior army is strong compared to his. He got lucky when his popped warrior arrived near my newly settled city. SO after 3 turns of existence I had to disband it. Annoying, but nothing more than that.
Kemal and I are two techs up on Sky and ana (writing and CB) we think they do have WC though. We're heading for republic and I think we'll start researching that in 15 turns.
More stuff later (like the city ana popped next to my capital)
Nice to hear from the other side ;)
Kingreno
23-01-2004, 22:02
quote:Originally posted by ProPain
Kemal and I are two techs up on Sky and ana (writing and CB) we think they do have WC though.
The Chinese start with WC, so they probably have that yes[lol]
Payback time! [mwaha]
With the initial skirmishes in this game all being victories for the anarsky dogs, the KemPro-team is proud to announce the tables have turned and an age of KemPro-victories has started! As has been described by PP in the open thread, his brave Ottoman explorers made a daunting track spanning many miles, and generations, to finally stumble upon the barbaric Russian settlement of Sevastopol, with no Russian citizen brave (or foolish) enough to put up any resistance against these Ottoman conquerors.
And to make it even better, the Russians were apparently so frozen with fear that they did not even abandon the settlement but instead allowed the Ottomans to take off with a staggering 22 gold pieces locked inside the town's village hall! What this means for the total size of the Russian treasury is as yet unknown, but tests are in progress to see if any reasonable estimate can be made of the Russian treasury based on this amount of plunder.
But the Greeks aren't "green" anymore either: After one of their valiant brothers had been treacherously tricked and murdered by Chinese warriors in the east, Greece's valiant fighters did not pass up on this chance of revenge as the Chinese fugitives entered the Greek border near Sparta. With the undoubted prowess of Greece's military in mind, the result of this short battle was of course no surprise:
Before:
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Kemal/2004130125714_paybacktime.jpg
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After:
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Kemal/200413012583_paybacktime2.jpg
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And now for some more general information of the Greek part of the Magnificent KemPro Empire, as well as some info on KemPro's future plans, first here's an overview of Greek territory:
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Kemal/20041301303_Greece.jpg
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the minimap:
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Kemal/2004130131431_minimap64.jpg
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and of course the accompanying demographics:
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Kemal/20041301339_Demographs64.jpg
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Decent figures for now, especially considering that earlier analysis of the demographs indicated that anarsky-Russia has a capital capable of being a settler-factory, while the Kempro team did not, in neither Istanbul nor Athens. Some more analysis of the demographs later, since we have obtained a screenshot that gives even better information on the enemies' plans. See here a very detailed look of the chinese capital of Beijing, sent to the KemPro team by the Ottoman ambassador shortly after an embassy was established:
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Kemal/2004130131021_beijing.jpg
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This information of course gave rise to plenty of analysis and debating between Kem and Pro, here are in short some of the interesting points of info we've been able to refine from this pic so far:
- First very interesting thing that can be spotted from the pic is the Chinese distribution of commerce: no research whatsoever is being conducted by China at the moment the pic was taken! Since catching up on techs once you get behind seems to be very difficult in no AI games, this part gave rise to the most speculation between us, more of that later. For now, it's also good to see that Skyfish needs to spend an incredible amount of commerce to luxuries, 30% of his entire income! Since these 30% luxuries create more happiness than needed in Beijing, it is safe to conclude that the chinese own at least one other city that has reached size for, but more likely size 5 already.
- Skyfish apparently has problems from time to time focusing on micromanaging his empire. As can be seen, Beijing's production and growth are in the worst state possible at the moment, with 6 shields and 2 food being wasted next turn when the settler is completed. This loss of productivity is only a minor thing in a full game of course, but still the KemPro team's spirit rises when learning of such a destruction of resources.
- The global expansion of the Chinese empire seems very much to focus to the north/northwest, i.e. in the direction of the Russian empire. When looking closely at the outer borders of Beijing's lands, once can clearly see territorial borders sticking out of the fog to the east and west of Beijing, indicating that no cities have been built there so far. This is good, since it means that the Chinese will still need some time to fully utilize the productive lands around the capital.
- A very curious thing, but a close look to the left of the screen reveals that the Chinese currently do not profit from the benefits of luxury resources in their empire. This is very revealing, since on this very same screen it can be seen that on Beijing's city roster a luxury resource (furs) is connected to the Chinese capital via roads, and even being worked by Chinese labourers at the moment!
This can only indicate one thing, which is that the Anarsky team already has a trade route established between them, and that for some reason Skyfish is supplying Anarres with furs. Once again this could give an indication on what the Anarsky future plans might be, more of that later.
- Beijing is undefended at the moment. This does not necessarely mean of course that it is uncapable of defending itself, it could be that its defenders are stationed just outside Beijing, as it does not need the military police atm. However, More likely is that they are needed for MP duties in some other city, along with the high luxury rate another indication that the Chinese have at least one large city in their empire. On the other hand, sky having a large size city conflicts with the fact that he has given his luxury away to anarres...
- Beijing has, besides its granary, also already completed barracks, which could indicate a military approach of the anarsky team. Why barracks have been completed already, while no military units are being created by Beijing is unknown, currently the only function of the barracks seems to be to drain the Chinese treasury...???
As a last part of this spoiler, concerning what the KemPro team believes could be the underlying strategy and tactic of the anarsky team in this game.
For better understanding, besides some of the facts that have been highlighted already above, starting with some info on the scientific situatiuon of both teams:
currently, in turn 64, the KemPro team has entered its final stage of its ambitious project of reaching the more advanced government form of the Republic, as the Kempro Ottomans finished Philosophy and the Greeks CoL, for them to start on the Republic at full speed, requiring at present an additional 34 turns of research for it to be completed.
We initially expected the anarsky team to pursue a better form of government too, but the research pattern the anarsky team is currently following does not support this hypothesis. We are now ahead CoL and Philospohy on the most developed anarsky player, Russia. Also, we've confirmed that the Russians have only obtained writing some 6 turns ago, so they certainly do not have either one of these completed soon.
What is more, it also has been only 3 or 4 turns ago that the anarsky team has obtained the knowledge of ceremonial burial, again via anarres, so most likely from a hut. (On a sidenote, anarres seems to prefer not to share this knowledge with his ally, as China does not have CB yet).
Based upon this knowledge, it's safe to conclude that the anarsky team seems to still have a long way to go to both Monarchy and Republic.
Therefore, we've come to the conclusion that they must have planned for some other way besides research to obtain vital technologies, and we're at the moment working with the hypothesis that the anarsky team plans to research literature and complete the Great Library in one of the Russian cities, most likely St. Petersburg.
To support this theory, we have knowledge of the following information:
1. Both Skyfish and anarres seem to have a large treasury, which could indicate that they do not wish to spend money on techs, and focus on slow, minimum-research.
2. They are only one tech away from literature atm, so only one of the team-members should be doing (minimum)research at the moment if they indeed plan to get the techs from the Library. This thought is supported by the fact that indeed Skyfish isn't researching at all atm.
3. Even though Skyfish apparently has large cities himself, he has chosen to gift his own luxury to his ally. Apparently, they prefer to keep anarres' cities happy above keeping sky's cities happy. A possible reason to this could be that they actually need the luxury to keep anarres' wonder building city happy, as they do not wish to decrease this city's production (possibly because of fears of being beaten to the GL by one of our cities?) by creating entertainers, or using more commerce-based city tiles, which often yield less shields.
4. To reinforce the idea of anarres maximizing production of his empire, another look at the demographs:
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/Kemal/200413014170_Demographs64.jpg
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Notice that Greece is currently second in mfg. goods, and not by a small margin, as the leader has a staggering 33 atm. However, both in gnp and productivity Greece is currently ranked 1, indicating that the leader is apparently utilizing tiles with a high-production value, but low commerce and food values.
And another thing that's noteable at the demographs is that Greece is 1st in land area (as well as in score by a considerable margin). This means that apparently the Russians, who have a settler factory with Moscow, must have sacrificed some of their rate of expansion to something else. Since they do not have a strong military (Greece is strong compared to both china and russia with only 12 warriors), and on the other hand have large cities/population, it could very well be that one of these cities has started prebuilding a palace a long time ago.
Keeping all this in mind, the KemPro team has decided to take countermeasures for now, until the plans of the anarsky team are more apparent. This means that we have deviated a little from our original plans of both entering a Republican government when Republic has been researched, but instead have opted not to share any techs anymore until it has been proven necessary to do so.
This also means that only the Greek half of the KemPro team will have knowledge of the Republic (and CoL) until futher notice in the future, and thus enjoy the benefits of a more advanced governemnt form. After the discovery of the Republic, no more techs will be invented except the absolutely necessary techs like IW and Horseback Riding.
The advantage of the Greeks having a Republican government are many. One of these advantages lies in the fact that the Greeks are the only civ in this game that have access to their UU in the early age, and thus enter a GA without much problems. Once they leave Despotism, they will also no longer be penalized on their city tiles and thus be able to reap the full rewards from the GA in the future.
Once research stops after getting the Republic, this will mean that the Anarsky team will have to invent all the way up to chivalry (riders)to enter a GA themselves, or build enough wonders to enter it peacefully. For Russia this means building an expansionist wonder after the GL has been completed, and for China either 2 wonders, or the Great Wall, but that also requires them to invent construction on their own.
Furthermore, the Republic will offer the Greeks and thus the KemPro team the possibilty to convert their gold into raw shields, allowing the rushing of armies/and or buildings in the future. On despotism, the only way to spend money is via upgrading, however that means that one is bound to use the slow moving swordsmen/med.infs, since chariots can no longer be built once Horseback riding is discovered. With the large distances between our empires, horsemen do seem to be a better choice on this given map.
More info when the game progresses, or if PP wants to add anything to the above of course. :)
Couldn't have said that better Kemal.
digger760
30-01-2004, 16:24
I had to look very hard to spot the east and west borders near the chineses capital. I could'nt say for sure that there is furs under the chinesse citizen/farmer, but i'll take your word for it.
Nice to see you put a good write up in. And i like your analysis, it will be interesting to see how it pans out.
Any plans to establish a russian embassy? or have the russians done that to you already? oh hang on you said they did have writing yet, so i suppose they hav'nt
Nice analysis! and a good plan.
Should be a fun one.
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