View Full Version : Tourney ideas, interest, etc.
Couple of people already have expressed interest in reviving the Tournament and ProPain and me were already thinking along a combination with KoD.
First of all it would be nice to know how much interest there is and how we can make it work.
There is line in the sand from my side and that is results processing, the admin efforts in particular. If we are going to do it that should be far more efficient compared with the way we did it in the Tournament.
Also, imo if we have multiple divisions the easiest would be on Emperor level. Hardest on Sid?
If you simply grade games by earliest finish on a particular victory type, it would make rankings much easier.
Monarch games would be Ok too, if looking for fastest designated finish by culture for example.
quote:Originally posted by col
If you simply grade games by earliest finish on a particular victory type, it would make rankings much easier.
Thnx [kiss] col!
More than happy with that. But we had an extensive discussion on that, final conclusion being that we wanted to keep some pop points in as well AFAIK.
quote:Originally posted by col
Monarch games would be Ok too, if looking for fastest designated finish by culture for example.
Just an open question col, who would be playing Monarch on CDZ? Agree that OCC will be a challenge but a 5CC handles most of the OCC issues imo.
Maybe it was the penultimate conclusion. I dont think adding points in does much to the game and just complicates the scoring.
I'd enjoy 5CC on monarch. I enjoyed the commercial domination game too. I'm all in favour of variants but would find them a bit tough on Emperor. Not a problem though, I can always submit losses.
Maybe we just need two divisions here. One for Anarres, Erikk, PP and co. And one for the lessor mortals. Of course, thats how we all met up in the first place...
Ribannah
08-12-2003, 00:39
quote:Originally posted by col
If you simply grade games by earliest finish on a particular victory type, it would make rankings much easier.
Hear, hear! [yeah]
Sir Eric
08-12-2003, 00:50
quote:Originally posted by col
Maybe we just need two divisions here. One for Anarres, Erikk, PP and co. And one for the lessor mortals. Of course, thats how we all met up in the first place...
I think that there would be enough of people like myself that are not up to playing diety but can play monarch or even have a dig at Emporer for there to be a "Lesser Mortals" division.
WildFire
08-12-2003, 01:12
I would love the lesser mortal dvision :D
Melifluous
08-12-2003, 12:23
quote:Originally posted by WildFire
I would love the lesser mortal dvision :D
Me too...
Melifluous
I've always regarded myself as one of the strongest players - I hold up everyone else on the ladder.
Darkness
08-12-2003, 13:10
I'd also prefer the lesser mortals division... ;)
Eklektikos
08-12-2003, 19:39
Even a lowly schmuck such as myself might be tempted to have a shot at the "lesser mortals" division if sufficient free time presents itself :D
How about the Lesser Mortals playing Emperor most of the games with sidesteps to Mon and Demi? The Upper Beings can enjoy themselves then with Deity and Sid, maybe with a touch of hard Sid :)
WildFire
08-12-2003, 20:32
Sounds good! I will play the tourney sometime when I am not lazy!
Sounds good to me too - can we have a monarch Always War variant?
quote:Originally posted by col
Sounds good to me too - can we have a monarch Always War variant?
Always the peaceful builder right?[lol]
I'd be happy for a monarch Never war variant too. I like different styles of games that force me to play in a different way.
Monarch Always War is real hard ! Not far from Deity...
Too true - thats why I'm not in favour of 'Its not worth playing unless its Emperor or Deity'. You can have some great games on Regent or Monarch if you have restrictions too.
Agree with that, we discussed "always at war" in the Tourney as well and the issue we had was how to verify this apparently simple condition afaik. C3C editor allows embassies for all players and that could be part of the solution.
Another thing: in the "thread about a certain individual" Matrix asked the question where the Tourney was different from the GOTM. Annares responed right to the point imo by saying that one could play at a diff. level of choice. No way I intend or want to recreate that thread, I'd just like to share views how we can get the best of those worlds into a CDZ tourney. Imo (again) a lot of the sentiment with the GOTM is in the post-Matrix era.
Would really appreciate if PP and Matrix respond, without making all other responses less meaningfull.
Let's talk about another fun item on CDZ!
Melifluous
11-12-2003, 01:06
quote:Originally posted by Beam
Agree with that, we discussed "always at war" in the Tourney as well and the issue we had was how to verify this apparently simple condition afaik.
Two words for ya...
Locked Alliances...
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/uploaded/melifluous/200312111531_lockedalliance.jpg
19.68KB
Alliance 1 = You.
Alliance 2 = Everyone else.
You set both at war with each other.
Melifluous
I'm in favor of different divisions, but I also think regular deity players can enjoy a lower level game with some restrictions like AWW. Or at least I will. I think divisions should be about game difficulty in general and not just game difficulty level. FOr now I think starting out with 2 divisions should be ok.
I'm also a big fan of easy scoring. Although sometimes being ridiculed for it (RIP Simple Ladder System ;). I'd say earliest date of finish determines winner, when people end on same date, civ score decides.
I agree processing results should be automated in some form, I'm prepared to look at it but as you all know by now, my programming skills are a 'bit' flimsy. I have reserved time to finish web entry for the ladder during the x-mas holidays, so I can take a look at tourny then too. It would be very helpfull if someone with asp/php skills could help out.
In C3C I don't think we can hold up all random maps. Just the start position placement alone is so crummy (how do they manage to break something that worked ?????) that maps should be looked at. I'm prepared to make a map once in a while, but not all the time because I wanna play myself too :D
I'd say let's try and start a 'season' on the 1st of january!!
Well maybe we should not get too over-excited here, there has been numerous attempts to have a Single Player game played by everyone here at CDZ and none ever worked. Its very much a PBEM forum where ppl rather spend their time on their PBEMs
We should really check how much feedback we get from KoD2 in order to then launch a Tourney or not.
No ?
Melifluous
11-12-2003, 11:05
But KoD is on Demi-God and I for one wont be playing it for that very reason alone.
Unlike some people I like to start a game I think I can win.
Taking a poll from KoD players seems like a great idea for the Harcore Division but its precisely the softcore players that this 2 tiered system would attract.
How about we just open a poll anyway?
1) Hardcore Div (Deity equivalent and Beyond)
2) Softcore Div (Lesser mortals)
3) Aint gonna play, uh-uh not me sonny...
Melifluous
The most popular tournament division operated at Monarch / Emperor level. Competitive for the lesser mortals yet still a chalenge for fastest win for the hot shots. I'm with Meli. I'm not interested in deity / demi / Sid games that I probably will lose.
Shabbaman
11-12-2003, 13:21
quote:Originally posted by Skyfish
Well maybe we should not get too over-excited here, there has been numerous attempts to have a Single Player game played by everyone here at CDZ and none ever worked.
Don't be too pessimistic... I think there's an interest in single player, a new tourney might attract new members as well. I always enjoyed reading threads, even when I didn't play.
I for one will try to play, but anything above emperor is beyond me. I've tried the first sp challenge, but I didn't complete it due to "other interests" (not even a pbem, not even playing atm).
Also high difficulty is much more time consuming than lower difficulty. So that might help to get some people to play too.
Melifluous
12-12-2003, 10:15
quote:Originally posted by col
I'm with Meli.
Well fuck me! [:o]
There's a first time for everything...!
[lol]
And shabba? Skyfish is always pessimistic, somink to do with being French I think ;)
Melifluous
We indeed might attract players that are for some reason not playing PBEM. Just because they only have a shitty phoneline for example. And not be looking for numbers either which means more admin. I would be perfectly happy with 10 active ppl per division. :)
Division naming, how about:
- Upper Beings (Deity and Sid)
- Lower Mortals (Monarch to Demi)
or something like:
- Micromanagers
- Governators
For the rules we could start with a dressed up version of the old tourney rules with modifications on simple scoring, divisions and schedule. The tourney site still resides at CFC (and locally on my desktop as well): http://www.civfanatics.net/%7Etournament/main.htm
Do we still like the one game / 2 weeks schedule, that could be a bit to much imo, one / 4 weeks prob. a better fit in everyones pbem affairs.
Comments appreciated!
Melifluous
12-12-2003, 11:14
quote:Originally posted by Beam
Comments appreciated!
Sounds peachy [goodjob]
Melifluous
[:o][:o][:o]
Shabbaman
12-12-2003, 11:19
One in four sounds better to me, I don't play that fast.
quote:Originally posted by Melifluous
quote:Originally posted by Beam
Comments appreciated!
Sounds peachy [goodjob]
Melifluous
[:o][:o][:o]
Van Dale says about peachy:
peach·y ['pi:tsi] (bijvoeglijk naamwoord; vergrotende trap: peachier; bijwoord:
peachily; afleiding: peachiness)
1
perzikachtig
perzikkleurig, zacht, donzig
2
(Amerikaans-Engels; informeel) reuze
fijn, leuk, puik, prima
I assume you mean the 2nd option, otherwise you're on pot early friday morning [smokin]
One in four sounds triff. (find that in your dictionary ;) )
I'm all in favour of fun variants though. I played a resourceless game once. That was certainly different. And a game with no UUs. CRacker's commercial domination was a fun game too. (Had to reach a specified gpt and gp to win).
Btw - if you need someone to collate the results for a division, well, I've done it before and dont mind doing it again. (And I got the results out on time unlike some people .... ;) )
Melifluous
12-12-2003, 11:46
quote:Originally posted by Beam
Van Dale says about peachy:
peach·y ['pi:tsi] (bijvoeglijk naamwoord; vergrotende trap: peachier; bijwoord:
peachily; afleiding: peachiness)
1
perzikachtig
perzikkleurig, zacht, donzig
Searching for most of these...
A Dutch-English dictionary gave me this for Zacht
zacht [a] (dulcet, honeyed, mellifluous, mellisonant, sweet) pleasing to the ear.
[goodjob]
Melifluous
Shabbaman
12-12-2003, 12:20
Wouldn't it be an idea to start before christmass. I for one have way too much spare time during the holiday...
Just being practical here. KoD2 is already available on demi-god. I do not know if PP created that one from a scenario. If so a sav on emperor level could be created as well and we can start well before christmas.
@col, help very much appreciated and yeah, we could come up with nice fun variaties. Population, number of wonders, a city of every AI are all verifyable goals.
Some more about the rules: do we really want a promotion / demotion system? In the tourney it never worked and if we abandon it the concept of seasons also is subject to discussion. Seasons however have the advantage that ppl entering at a later time have chance to win something compared to a ladder system. And allows for ranking based for 3 out of 4 or 5 games in case ppl are away for some time.
My 2 cts (paid by the customer I am "at work" right now).
Ribannah
13-12-2003, 19:44
A rating system could provide a continuous ranking. It has two advantages:
- you don't have to play all the games in order not to drop;
- newer games automatically weigh more but older results still count.
People could have two ratings, one for each division.
The ratings would be based on ranks in individual games and adjusted according to the difference between expected rankings (based on the existing ratings of all participants) and actual ones.
I created KoD as a random game start, so it's no scenario. But why not start a tourny gamne before the x-mas holidays. Reading thru this I think most people are looking for a slightly easier game than demi-god so I think a tourny will have more followers anyway.
I for one have time to do both games :)
Ribannah: I think the rating system is fine for a continuous ranking but not for a season oriented play. I was thinking to work in seasons, you can easily skip a season when you dont have the time to play. Also you can change division easily when a new season starts and be competitive from the start.
But if the general feeling is a continuous ranking would be more fun that's fine with me ok.
Ribannah
14-12-2003, 13:12
It also is possible to combine the two. To qualify for a seasonal victory, you must play a minimum number of games in one at the same division, while for the continuous ranking every game counts.
And we should have prizes, of course. The GOTM used to rename cities after the winners, that was a cool idea (I got a town in Spain, of all places!). What if when you win a season, you can design your own civ? :)
Time to reveil the basics...
What does KoD mean?
Melifluous
15-12-2003, 12:38
King Of Deity
Melifluous
I am more than happy to produce a trailer C3C game for the King of Emperor division (KoE division, Dutch players will love that :D ) before Christmas, just to start it and have a platform to discuss type of game, ranking, schedule and the other stuff. Reason it is a trailer is the most serious bug imo in C3C right now and that is the gpt bug. It is an exploit that can not be put aside easily by rules and hopefully is solved with the Beta patch. I explain by some reverse reasoning.
If we ban gpt deals (hard to verify anyway) the AI will still go into those deals. If you are lucky enough to be next to such an AI, wait 'til they got a pile of cash and go conquering their cities there will be huge profits. In a test game I got +500/city from the Byzantines in the Ancient Age.
If we allow gpt deals there is a strong cumulating effect, i.e. once you are in such a deal the benefits will most likely result in even better gpt deals because more income is available to spend where you want. In said test game I was running over a 100 gpt deficit while total gold went up by over a 120/turn at 90% sci and 10% lux. Industrial Age.
So therefore a KoE trailer if everyone is "OK" to play with the exploit. Plan to release the map this weekend and the duedate will be Sat. 10-jan next year!
you may be interested to know the patch (beta) is due out by tomorrow (friday)
quote:Originally posted by anarres
you may be interested to know the patch (beta) is due out by tomorrow (friday)
[dance2]
Really like the loophole Firaxis found in Atari bureaucracy anarres! With or without the patch a 3 week trailer still makes sense to get everything started, at the end we could still consider it game 1 of season 1. :D
The game is basically ready, yet with the patch release planned for Monday it will be released shortly after that.
Specs:
Map: Continents / 60% / all other settings middle
Civ: Portugal
AI Civs: All other C3C civs + and old friend ;)
Victory Condition: 50,000 VP's (while avoiding any other victory type!)
VP Locations: 10
Rules: default editor rules and houserules for exploits etc.
I will do a testrun prior to release as well.
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