View Full Version : Inter-Site Demo Game!!!
We have been invited to join the upcoming Conquests ISDG!
I have entered CDZ as a participant in the ISDG, and I hope that between us we can give them all a run for their money. [groucho]
Here is the "U.N." (http://cdgroup.org/forums/tbs/civ3/viewforum.php?f=418) (hosted this time at CDG) - it is run by 1 or 2 people that act as a mediator for the different Civ3 sites that are playing in the ISDG. The people (not the site) running the U.N. are not eligible to play in any side.
I am not very familiar with the Demo Game format (including whether it's "Demo Game", "DemoGame" or "Demo-Game"! [crazyeye]), so I am hoping that we can learn together exactly how this works.
We will be looking for people at CDZ to "drive" this - depending on participation and enthusiasm this role/roles could emcompass very little or a whole lot. Please post here if you think you will want to join in, and whether you are interested in taking an organisational role.
Any questions (and general advice) are also more than welcome...
Shabbaman
26-11-2003, 15:42
I'll join, but only if we have a corresponding CDZ demogame RPG ;)
Finally !
I am in :D
The DemoGame format is not interesting IMO, it s a very cumbersome procedure for ppl who have nothing to do all day it seems. You have to elect ppl that will handle eachone a city [eek] or a sector (military, trade, etc...) [eek] : just an excuse to generate endless discussions on chats and fora [vomit]
We dont need that crap: we can have a team, talk together about the general strat and then have available ppl play the turns... Lets keep it simple !
I wanna join but time wont permit me to do a lot of organisational tasks though. The ladder is already suffering as it is. :(
Shabba - can you explain more about the RPG aspect please.
Sky - the format will be whatever people want it to be. there is no reason we can't have a mixture of several 'styles'...
ProPain - you shouldn't need much time to add your thoughts to the mix when the time comes. :)
P.S. One thing to consider is if we are in this to win or to have fun, or a bizarre combination of both. [confused] ;)
Is that last question a sarcasm ? [lol]
Am sure we can both have fun and crush their little miserable balls ! [mwaha]
Count me in as well.
Lets keep it simple and straightforward and let them suffer [}:)]
Time is quite restricted on my site so an organisational role is probably overambitious.
You got a web site Beam ?
We should all get CDG log ins I guess...
I must say I am seriously impressed by that list of exploits from MZO ! I think I want it applied in all my PBEMs :D
The following is a list of some known exploits. Note that these are not all the exploits, so if an exploit doesn't appear here, it is still illegal. The administator may edit this list as exploits are discovered/fixed.
1. Alliance tricks
Basically the idea of most points in this section revolves around two teams flipping back and forth between peace and war to abuse certain game mechanics.
1.1 Getting double-duty out of artillery and Workers
Two (or more) teams can get double (triple...) use of bombardment units and Workers by using the units on their respective turns, then letting their "enemy" capture and use them in turn. When facing an alliance of two civs with 20 Catapults among them, it's quite disconcerting to have to face 40 rounds of bombardment.
The simple solution is to require alliances and peace treaties to be respected through in-game diplomacy.
1.2 Sharing a Luxury or Strategic resource
Two teams can get the use of a single resource by repeated gifting and then cancelling of the trade. One Iron should only supply one civ at a time.
Repeated cancellation of trade is okay for supplying bursts of a resource for a civ upgrade, as long as it is not also being used for making a dual supply out of one resource.
1.3 Generating Leaders by sacrificing cheap units
A team can build a bunch of Warriors and let another team slaughter them with Elites, in hopes of generating a Great Leader. This is actually quite costly, but the results can be dramatic (fast Forbidden Palace or Palace) if the teams get lucky.
The solution to this one is the same as in 1.1.
1.4 Declaring war for happiness
Two teams can declare war on each other for purposes of generating a little Happiness, which can lead to increased production through WLTKD.
1.5 Exchanging map/minimap information before Astronomy.
In Conquests, map trading is pushed back to Astronomy. If two teams can exchange maps out-of-game, the Seafaring trait becomes a lot less attractive.
2. Metagame tricks
2.1 Reloading to alter unwanted random results
It is possible to alter the results of combat (even with preserve random seed turned on) by reloading the save and playing out the turn slightly differently (i.e. by attacking in a different order, or basically by playing around with things that trigger the RNG). This can result in finding highly one-sided battles, and the appearance of an inordinate number of Elites and Great Leaders.
The simple solution is to require each team to open the save only once. This means that only one sequence of moves/orders is allowed to be viewed per save.
2.2 Manipulating a savegame file
Crafty players use the PBEM savegames to obtain information, or worse.
Again, let's play Civ3. If we allow tools like MapStat, then the door is wide open for any other file-manipulation program, which is a can of worms.
2.3 Loading a save while zoomed out
A team's turn-player can configure his or her game to be zoomed out, then load a PBEM savegame, which can reveal certain facts about the previous team's location.
Solution: all teams must agree to zoom in before loading the savegame and/or zoom in before saving the game.
2.4 Renaming units/cities to confuse/mislead opponents
Cities can be renamed to names of techs ('Monotheism') or sums of Gold ('210 Gold') or anything else that can be traded in the diplomacy screen. This allows a team to screw over another in a very weird way.
Worker and Settler names can be interchanged to hide their identities in stacks (since their stats are the same). Units with identical stats can be renamed for the same effect (Enkidu Warriors and Spearmen, Ancient Cavalry and Gallic Swordsmen).
Units/cities, therefore, may not be renamed for the specific purpose of fooling opponents.
3. Game Mechanics tricks
3.1 Fortifying a ship without any movement points left to obtain extra vision radius
A ship that fortifies sees an extra 1 tile in all directions at the beginning of the next turn. This can be accomplished by waking up the passengers of a ship (if there are any), and giving the Fortify All order.
3.2 Hitting F1 to change production
It is possible to use F1 to go into city views and change production before a city has been reached in the pre-turn production queue. This can result in tech-enabled units and Wonders being completed the very turn the tech is researched, or production to be changed in response to an enemy's actions (like Walls if a stack moves toward a specific city and not another).
3.3 Using GoTo to get extra movement
The last civ in the turn order can issue a GoTo command to a unit, and have that unit move twice before the next turn begins. This is very strong in war-time, and benefits one team only.
3.4 Chaining naval transports to quickly move land units across water
It is possible to wake a land unit at sea, and transfer it from one transport to another. Given enough ships, a chain can be created to instantaneously move units across bodies of water (by ending in port).
3.5 Teleporting units by abandoning or gifting cities
A team can instantaneously transport units from any city back to their capital by simply disbanding it or gifting it to another team. This results in very weird strategy.
3.6 Accepting a Peace Treaty from a civ then immediately declaring war
A team at war with another can accept the latter's Peace Treaty, then declare war afterward in order to eliminate War Weariness from that civ. This results in a huge advantage if the peace-seeking team is not aware of the trick.
Well.... got no demo game experience, don't want to see how organisational tasks eat up my time and I am not the biggest fan of role-playing...
so...
count me in!:D
I could occasionally play turns or just contribute to some spammy discussion.
Agree with Sky & Beam along the lines to keep it straight and simple.
Also, I tink the "bizarre combination of both" should be our aim...;)
WildFire
26-11-2003, 18:02
I was in the Demogame and I am in the MSDG for PTW right now at CFC. Guess I will join this one.
Pastorius
26-11-2003, 18:02
Though almost each and every member here at CDZ is better than me at civ3 multiplayer, I guess I ll keep my keyboard ready for some spa..err...discussions
I am in - but dont count on my playing anything - for that part, I have the lack of time (being a somewhat slightly serious economics student and all)
[:p]
I reckon we can [hammer] em real good tho [shabba]
WOW - I used the shabba smiley
quote:Originally posted by Skyfish
You got a web site Beam ?
Yeah, and if you're lookin' for certain pics I must disappoint ;)
Why you ask?
quote:
Originally posted by Beam
Time is quite restricted on my site
Thats' why ! [???]
quote:
Originally posted by WildFire
I was in the Demogame and I am in the MSDG for PTW right now at CFC
So you are the most experienced of all of us : what does a DemoGame mean ? How do you play turns ? What is MSDG ?
[help]
Shabbaman
26-11-2003, 22:06
I did demogame 1 and 2 on CFC, and it sums up to this: a single player multiplayer game. Together (through the forums) you decide what happens (sort of a SG), and if you're really pushing it (you know CFC...) you pretend to be a real nation. So the 'president' is the main responsible, with the minister of foreign affairs as a foreign advisor blah blah blah. Of course, we'd do it by shouting and blackmail. And I bet that works a lot better.
About the RPG: IT WAS A JOKE! [shabba]
P.S. Really, I open a pub thread, you post 'hello, can I have a beer', I say 'here you are', you post 'thanks. how much is that?' and I say 'that's three gold, and the ***** smoked banana juice is on the house!'. And our postcounts are up!
I really like to join in this one too :). I spent some time following and arguing for the current MSDG at CFC, but I disliked the way that decisions were made (or rather weren't). imho there were like three or four ppl that decided what to do when they were playing the turn. Don't know if it'll happen likewise over here (probably ;), but over here most ppl will know the right things to do (I hope [:p]). Looking forward to it.. :D
quote:Originally posted by Skyfish
[quote]
[...]
So you are the most experienced of all of us : what does a DemoGame mean ? How do you play turns ? What is MSDG ?
[help]
MSDG = Multi Site DemoGame. We will probably have to assign a few chaps to play the turns on a daily basis (they have access to the CDZ-email address for this game), who we trust to make the right 'daily' decisions, i.e. worker actions, unit moves, etc. For the longer term policies, i.e. foreign affairs, tech choices, city queues, a few 'ministers' need to be appointed who start discussion threads on the topics at hand. And of course these dicussions all need to be finished by a lot of polls [cool].
For all this decision making and game-talk we need to have a restricted area forum to which only 'trusted' CDZ-members have access, I guess.
quote:Originally posted by Shabbaman
P.S. Really, I open a pub thread, you post 'hello, can I have a beer', I say 'here you are', you post 'thanks. how much is that?' and I say 'that's three gold, and the ***** smoked banana juice is on the house!'. And our postcounts are up!
I love RPG! And I love pubs! Let's show PC again for all members and get this show on the road.
and of course we need a puppet monkey for prez :D:
http://funnypictures.hypermart.net/s/curiousgeorge.jpg
Shabbaman
26-11-2003, 22:38
[lol]
smalltalk
27-11-2003, 04:07
quote:Originally posted by Plux
and of course we need a puppet monkey for prez :D:
So you don't want to play and lose with style, but rather to win by applying any dirty trick available, just short of Skyfish's list?:D
WildFire
27-11-2003, 07:48
Basically its a pbem that we get and then we send on. So really, we should be reaaaaaaally good at this (Since the site is basically about... ;) ).
Should make a subforum for this, as we will be posting screenshots and debating about what to do. Wouldn't want Chieftess to see any of it.
quote:Wouldn't want Chieftess to see any of it.
...or you for that matter !!!!
Didn't you just say you were on the CFC team ? [devil2]
Shabbaman
27-11-2003, 08:57
[lol]
In a running team SF, not in the new game ;)
WildFire
27-11-2003, 09:31
Moron ;)
Dude ! Isn't it WAAAAY past your bed time ?
Gonna have to call your dad again... [mad2]
Shabbaman
27-11-2003, 09:50
[lol]
quote:Originally posted by Skyfish
quote:
Originally posted by Beam
Time is quite restricted on my site
Thats' why ! [???]
LOL
Just exited my site to gain more time :D
Darkness
28-11-2003, 10:36
Cool. Count me in! I probably won't have time for the actual game-playing, but I'd be happy to add to any discussion about it...
Lt. Killer M
28-11-2003, 11:30
hehe, you want a mean asshole on the team I guess...
I'll offer a dead: you do the mircomanaging for me (Dan and Julien will do), I make the mean senak attack plans ;)
Pastorius
28-11-2003, 18:53
what is senak attack? [:p]
Seriously - having killer as the head senak attack planner should prove useful ;)
jack merchant
28-11-2003, 19:00
Typing nazi [:p]
I'd be happy to participate in some form or another; like Skyfish, I'd prefer if we kept it simple. Besides, if we want to win you don't want to let ladder bottom-feeders like me get a vote in on policy anyway :D.
Eklektikos
28-11-2003, 19:05
quote:Originally posted by Paalikles
Seriously - having killer as the head senak attack planner should prove useful ;)
Oh dear. I do hope we don't end up starting next to you... [ponder] ;)
From what I've seen in demo games, people spend more time talking and arguing about the decision making rules than they do playing any civ.
col is bang on : I tried to look at the ISDG forum last night and was totally confused !
Sorry but I jsut dont understand *any* of what was in there....in one thread all the sites' reps argue in 30 posts if the admins should post the polls or not, in another one with 100 posts about who and *how* (post or poll?) sites could give their opinion [wallbash] [slay]
Sorry but this is way too cryptic for me and a huge waste of time and hand muscle !
I am still in for playing though : only if we can run OUR game the way WE want...
I am sure that those guys will be so busy talking they'll forget to play and we'll have an easy task :D
quote:Originally posted by Skyfish
col is bang on : I tried to look at the ISDG forum last night and was totally confused !
I am still in for playing though : only if we can run OUR game the way WE want...
I am sure that those guys will be so busy talking they'll forget to play and we'll have an easy task :D
Says it all imo. Let's talk how we can bash 'm and keep up effective appearances. Gracious HI may make better deals than/then (lost that braincell) annoyed ones.
OK Here is a list of the interested players :
-Anarres
- Shabba
- Skyfish
- PP
- Beam
- Grille
- Paalikles
- WildFire
- Plux
- Darkness
- Lt Killer M
- Jack Merchant
Looks like a great team to me...there are eminent memebers of this forum we will also need/welcome so anyone will be free to participate I guess.
Things we need first :
- A forum (or SubForum) :)
- A Captain [love]
For the captain maybe we could have 2 : one in charge of communicating with ISDG/UN (seems anarres is already doing this), one in charge of running the internal affairs of our game specifically. No ?
For example right now there is a discussion about who the game admins should, 3 guys volunteered and everybody agrees to them except *one* team is still "holding a poll" about it [wallbash]
I took the liberty to agree to the 3 admins on behalf of CDZ, sorry if I grossly misbehaved but I just need this MOVE ALONG !!!!!!!!!! [mad] [aargh][mad] [aargh]
Just give it some time SF ;). This won't be the last time you will get frustrated about the moving speed of things in a demogame :). Anarres, PP or any other admin, could one of you create a forum for this demo-thingie, and make it only accessible to the people mentioned above?
I volunteer to act as puppet prez/captain of internal affairs..
Sky, I think you're on the right track![goodjob]:)
I guess nobody here thinks you 'grossly misbehaved' by agreeing for us at CDG...
...otherwise, I claim to be the head of the Ministry Of Oppression & Political Prosecution... pop-rush the opposition!
[evil]
j/k
One thing: shouldn't we wait for the special (sub-)forum being created for getting us organised (team captain and alike)?
Shabbaman
29-11-2003, 14:31
I definately agree with the subforum, members only. Keeps hidden what our "brillian senak attack strategy" is ;)
Made the forum. And spammed it too !
DrAlimentado
29-11-2003, 17:24
Can I join the team as a part-timer?
ie. I'll get involved in discussions when I feel like it and otherwise be allowed to slack off... feel free to tell me to fuck-off if that's too cheeky :D
From what I read at the ISDG UN it seems we may be bound by the terms of the game to run things a set way [confused]?? Or are we allowed to make team decisions any way we want as long as the inter-team stuff is done by the overall rules?
I'm interested too, but like Dr A, is it allowed to participate with just an "advisory" role (at first), like just posting some opinions on things, and add points of view to the discussions?
I'm not 100% sure I understand how this works exactly either, and I don't have the time to figure it all out exactly at this moment, too busy with other things at the moment.
I'd love discussions about the course and actions in the game though, but maybe that isn't exactly how it's supposed to work.
Yeeha ! [jump]
We got our number one !
quote:discussions about the course and actions in the game though, but maybe that isn't exactly how it's supposed to work.
Thats exactly the point of the game :D
And if, at any point, we dont listen to you of all ppl we all suck big time and dont deserve to play with you anyway :D
In many ways, this site has operated this way for some time. I like to read peoples comments in spoilers and there is always plenty of good advice round here that people have the maturity to accept of ignore as they wish.
Annares, or anyone, can you list the teams that will play this ISDG? I joined the CFC MSDG a month ago and actually I don't like it so much because there's too much talking and too little doing.
But I liked reading about how the game went. So I would want to join this one as well but on which team I don't know. This time I will say from the beginning that I will not play but observe how things are going.
yndy, the teams in it are:
1.) CDG
2.) Civ3 Players Ladder
3.) Civ3 Brasil
4.) Gamecatcher
5.) Civ Gaming Network
6.) Civilization Webring
7.) CivFanatics Center
8.) Civ3 Duel Zone
9.) Apolyton
10.) Batrachos team
I'd back the players here against any of those
If you would like to join the ISDG (or even if you are already in) please post in the new ISDG sign up thread (http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1123).
In the interests of security I have restriced the new forum until people have promised to play by the rules...
quote:Originally posted by col
I'd back the players here against any of those
Poly are pretty good in the current MSDG, the German Webring also and CDG IIRC. Lucky aka Gamecatcher is pretty good as well.
I wouldn't disconsider any team as alliances are key.
I'd worry if the RealmsBeyond crowd entered a team....
Indeed ! but rest assured they arent...
By the way the last RBCiv game is awesome : all AIs start in the Middle Age and you not :D All Ancient Wonders are turned off... Only plus you start as Iroquois [hmm]
Shabbaman
01-12-2003, 08:05
Woohoo! We get to bash CFC!!! ;)
Sir Eric
01-12-2003, 10:23
Well count me in, but only in a minor role as I am not as expereinced as the rest of the crew so if their is a small almost trivial position then I'll grab it.
Currently Bootstoots, Elucidus, and I are coming up with plans to "keep" the game moving. I believe right now that if you or your team takes longer than two days to pass the save were skip you. So if the team can't get along and can't keep it together... then there suffer for it.
BTW... It seems that I'm an "offcial" C3C ISDG admin.
quote:Originally posted by Strider
Currently Bootstoots, Elucidus, and I are coming up with plans to "keep" the game moving. I believe right now that if you or your team takes longer than two days to pass the save were skip you. So if the team can't get along and can't keep it together... then there suffer for it.
BTW... It seems that I'm an "offcial" C3C ISDG admin.
hehe, the time limit may drop to 24 hours soon. ;)
Strider : thats real good news man !
I think we're all in favour of a fast moving game here :D
Question : how are you going to manage the fact there is 10 team that signed up but only 8 places in a PBEM ?
It's going to be split up in two games of five teams each. But, if there are some teams that cannot cope with the 24h time limit, then we maybe get one full game [yeah]
Sir Eric
02-12-2003, 12:06
The 24 hour Time limit I reckon is better then a 48 hour one, though me being about 13 hours ahead of Europe may pose some problems.
Thats Ok, I'm about 10 years behind.
Sir Eric
02-12-2003, 13:44
quote:Originally posted by col
Thats Ok, I'm about 10 years behind.
[lol][lol][goodjob]
quote:Originally posted by col
Thats Ok, I'm about 10 years behind.
Then I suggest you start the game! That gives us a 10 year headstart meaning 3 ISDG have been played effectively alrdy! (considering 3 years for a game to complete! Can you mail us the results? We would like to know with what point difference we crushed everybody!
I have become a member of the Civ3 Players Ladder (www.myleagues.com/civ3players), a multiplay ladder.
Looks like an interesting competetion with some good competetive teams. I consider CDZ to be most experienced in PBEM :)
Although vs human players only the MP league might have an advantage. ;)
So are you gonna join our team or theirs Cruise? [groucho]
Yeah, seems like 24h time limit with some exceptions now. Should keep the game moving qucikly.. also I suggest that CDZ starts trying to work out some type of back-up system. The PTW game is hurting because the back-up player is resistant to play the save, because there may still be a chance the "real" player comes and plays it.
Shabbaman
04-12-2003, 08:02
We have the whip for that.
Hello, haven't been around here for a while but I'd like to join this demo game team. I am a member of the poly team in the last one though. If that is not a problem then I will take the pledge thing?
Iirc we have other people joining this one who are playing the PTW one on another team. So I'd say take the pledge thing and welcome back
Socrates
05-12-2004, 01:38
quote:Originally posted by col
I'd worry if the RealmsBeyond crowd entered a team....
Mmmmh... Thought on that lately (well, at least : who wins in a 1v1 between Kemal and Sirian ?), and I quite don't know. This team would be very strong, but hey most of them aren't so used to PBEMs (some surely haven't tried it !). Maybe that's why RBCiv didn't create a team. Now, if we can recruit them here... [groucho]
quote:Thats Ok, I'm about 10 years behind.
LOL. Get back oldie ! [goodjob]
StrictlyRockers
10-01-2005, 05:37
Kryz, jsut so you know, in the interests of full disclosure now that I have started posting here for PBEM games, I am the Minister of Information for the PAL team in Qualifier Game 1 of the ISDG.
I had no idea that CDZ even had a team until I saw this thread. Anyway, we are not in the same game yet. Can you tell me how your team is doing in your game? I will go check the last post on points becuase I am curious now. One sec...
Well, I can't tell who you are. You are either the Catagonians or the killer B's or the team that was eliminated.
Socrates
10-01-2005, 08:43
Hehe, we have another spy aboard !!! KILL HIM ! [aargh] j/k
We are the CDZ team, and our Boss, our God, the One we worship day and night is called Miffy. Am I right ? :D [hmm] We are the Killer Wabbits team. How are we doing ? We're still alive so far... [groucho]
You're in the PAL team ? At CDZ we chose SECAM, but that's just us (and not Justus (I should stop posting so early, I'm in great form [blush] )). No problem with you playing here. Maybe we'll meet in the next round, maybe not.
StrictlyRockers
10-01-2005, 09:20
I checked and CDZ is doing quite well in its game. You are on target to advance to the finals. PAL has a commanding lead in its game. We are leading by more than 100 points right now and will almost certainly advance. I really shouldn't reveal more than that right now. Perhaps our teams will meet in the finals.
No one in his right mind choses SECAM.
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