cracker attacks 'this individual' again! [Archive]

Ribannah

29-11-2003, 13:42

quote:Originally posted by Darkness

Just a random thought:
cracker hasn't posted at CFC since november 23rd and Aeson is now starting the dicussion threads in the GOTM forum. cracker used to jump on anyones back if he/she did anything like that. This indicates a decrease of commitment on crackers' side. Is he stepping down as GOTM mod?
This is all SPECULATION, not fact, but I do find it somewhat odd, and un-like cracker...

Hmmm, maybe Cracker was banned? [estwing][mwaha]

I have never understood why Cracker was a GOTM moderator. It is already a bad idea in general to give someone double power (tournament AND posting), but he is, ah, lacking some basic qualities for the job.

Lately it seems that the tournament staff is falling behind schedule, failing to produce results. And the total number of participants has only gone down since they assimilated the Tourney event.

The games are still of good quality though. I had time to play the QSC of GOTM#25 (ie play until 1000 BC) and enjoyed it very much. It has an interesting setting with three minor tribes that cannot build settlers, leaving plenty of room to put two 4-turn settler factories to good use.

col

29-11-2003, 14:35

The quality and thought behind the recent GOTM games has been unsurpassed. If any of you havent played them, give them a try. A very special experience.

Ribannah

29-11-2003, 23:40

Aha! News from Thunderfall himself. :)

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=be448b07661ddb4578134d918683f7cc&threadid=70356

"Cracker Retires
cracker informed me a few days ago that he has decided to resign from the Civ3 GOTM administrator position, and I respect his decision. cracker administered the Civ3 GOTM for about a year. He brought a new vision to the GOTM and managed to make the already popular concept even more fun to play and experience. The number of submissions increased significantly, thanks to the hard work of cracker and the GOTM staff members.

While cracker will no longer be involved in further GOTM administrative activities, he is helping the GOTM team preparing the GOTM game for December to ensure a smooth transition.

On hehalf of the entire CFC staff, I would like to thank him for all the time and effort he spent making the GOTM a greater success and wish him best of luck.

I am pleased to announced ainwood as the new Civ3 GOTM administrator. ainwood has been heavily involved with the GOTM for a long time, and I am confident that he will do an excellent job.

Thanks for supporting and playing the GOTM!"

WildFire

30-11-2003, 03:45

Goodbye Cracker!

Skyfish

30-11-2003, 05:54

[bday] [dance2] [jump] [band]
Great news !

yndy

30-11-2003, 09:47

I missed the post Erikk mentioned. I am with Dr. A on this issue, can we start a CFC gossip forum? I also have some other questions to ask as (i hope no one minds) Why did Lt. Killer left CFC? Why does Aeson post so little on CFC? Why does Moonsinger posts less after being promoted a mod?

Feel free to rant or do what you normally do.

Ribannah

30-11-2003, 12:20

AFAIK Moonsinger has stopped playing Civ for the moment.
Edit: I stand corrected, she was busy playing a huge Hall of Fame game!

Hehe, now that a certain someone has lost power, we are finally free to reveal the truth! I mean, gossip, eh, rant ...

col

30-11-2003, 14:01

Yeah - Moonsinger just completed her 54k deity game. Since she was taking over 3 hours per turn at one point and modding as well I guess that didnt leave too much other time.

Lt. Killer M

30-11-2003, 17:41

yndy: I am still there, but I have taken the stance that, well, I do not really need CFC, do I? My anmecahnge had nothing to do with cracker at all, and the person it had to do with was soon after dealt with for other, similar reasons by TF (hat's off) - but I post now as carlosMM ;)

Skyfish

30-11-2003, 18:06

In the end we always win, dont we ? [mwaha]

yndy

30-11-2003, 18:21

OK Lee, thanks Ribbanah and col, now I got those straight, anything about Aeson?

col

30-11-2003, 18:58

quote:Originally posted by Lt. Killer M

anmecahnge

[coool]

Skyfish

30-11-2003, 19:03

quote: OK Lee

[coool]

Beam

30-11-2003, 20:34

quote:Originally posted by yndy

Why does Aeson post so little on CFC?

Feel free to rant or do what you normally do.

Aeson has never been a postcounter on CFC, yet has been a quality contributor and a very skilled player (still is I guess). Aside from that we had a really good time running the 2nd season of the Tournament. Without any mod powers. But that is history.

col

30-11-2003, 20:37

Most people would still rate Aeson as one of the games top players. He has been doing a lot of work behind the scenes in GOTM and HOF.

Lt. Killer M

01-12-2003, 07:52

[lol] I am getting wrose and worse.......[blush]

namechange.....

Shabbaman

01-12-2003, 08:14

Try to get the first and last letters correct at least, that does wonders for readability.

Darkness

01-12-2003, 09:21

Aeson has recently completely retooled the Civ3HoF (there are fastfinish categories available now, for those who don't like milking) and maybe he doesn't post much, when he posts it's always top quality.

Pastorius

01-12-2003, 19:58

quote:Originally posted by Lt. Killer M

[lol] I am getting wrose and worse.......[blush]

namechange.....

[rotfl][jumpD]

and look at this nice [santa] smiley :)

BTW killer - if you are carlos MM, who was the poster on CDZ the other day with the same name?

GreyFox

01-12-2003, 22:59

I loved it when Aeson and SirPleb came to the chat... They havn't been there for ages now.

WildFire

02-12-2003, 03:51

Neither has oldmajor and tfz hardly ever goes in.

Stapel

02-12-2003, 09:11

I just read the goodbye thread on cfc. We all think cracker wasn't 100% suitable as a mod, but we do think he did a great job on the GOTM it self.

I completely disagree with the last part, but seem to stand alone with that?

May I remind you that 6 webpages were needed to say:

-download this modpack
-download this modpack
-download this save

I can do that in three lines! I don't think it is me being brilliant here! I once started a gotm. Within 15 turns, I had to fight clouds..... That did it! Goodbye GOTM for me! People that make me read through 6 pages of bullshit, to tell someting that can be told in 3 lines, and then want me to fight clouds....

How in the world can that be considered a good job?

Shabbaman

02-12-2003, 09:21

quote:Originally posted by Paalikles

quote:Originally posted by Lt. Killer M

[lol] I am getting wrose and worse.......[blush]

namechange.....

[rotfl][jumpD]

and look at this nice [santa] smiley :)

BTW killer - if you are carlos MM, who was the poster on CDZ the other day with the same name?

Not one of killers many DL's, I can assure you that ;)
Stapel, I agree with you: for me, the modpacks killed the GOTM. But I can see that others enjoyed it, so I might be nitpicking. I hope they return to something without modpacks though.

Darkness

02-12-2003, 11:04

I also agree stapel. The beginning of the mods was pretty nice but I quit the GOTM because it became a mod and it was no longer a 'real' game of civ (and because I had some (mostly pm-ed) arguments with cracker)...

@Shabba: So go harass Ainwood and Aeson, maybe they'll return to the basics if you nag them long enough... ;)

Lt. Killer M

02-12-2003, 11:30

@Paalikles: I am carlosMM, not carlos MM..... but murder will out they say, and so does theft.... oh, it did already above.....

@stapel: I agree, but saying that clearly in the thread wasn't in the options...... So I was amgnanimous - which will piss him off :p

col

02-12-2003, 13:22

I for one enjoyed the modpacks and new units that Cracker introduced to GOTMs. The maps were well planned and full of surprises. The Med melee was a classic and if you havent played it, I'd urge you to give it a try.

All you have to do is follow a fairly strightforward set of instructions. Sadly one or two idiots couldnt and always ended up moaning in the forum. This might give a misleading impression. The numbers of submissions in GOTM rose steadily throughout Crackers time and in view of the level of many of the games, was matched by a steady improvement in standard - much due to his introduction of staged spoilers.

Let not your view of Cracker's perceived failings blind you to the real and considerable strenghts of what he achieved.

Darkness

02-12-2003, 13:38

All true col, but I couldn't help but notice that a lot of good players left the GOTM during crackers' reign in the GOTM. People like Bamspeedy, DaveMcW, Bremp and others clearly found other challenges more attractive than the 'mod of the month'
Of the top players in the GOTM when I started playing (GOTM16), now only SirPleb remains...
Also the spoilers seem to be much shorter and less informative lately, which is regrettable, 'cause they were a great source for info and tips on gameplay...

col

02-12-2003, 14:16

Er - all of those were very heavily involved in the C3C tests.

Ribannah

02-12-2003, 14:43

The last few months - basically since the tournament was 'incorporated' - have shown some decline in GOTM activity. No doubt this has something to do with the fact that the staff had become slow in producing results. A fresh start with Ainwood may take care of that.

Personally I have mixed feelings about the modding but that doesn't take anything away from the quality of the games. My sole beef with the GOTM is Cracker's idea that entries should be 'validated' and the way he turned that into a personal vendetta against some of us.

The scoring formula will probably always remain flawed but the real fun of playing the GOTM is to read all the players' reports - mishaps and brilliancy alike.

Darkness

02-12-2003, 14:59

quote:Originally posted by col

Er - all of those were very heavily involved in the C3C tests.

Like I said, they found something more interesting to do.
Though I specifically recall Bamspeedy expressing his dissappointment when he found out GOTM20 was heavily modded and did not 'feel' like a random civ game...

Oh, and I played the med melee (finished 15th or so) and it was a fun game, I agree... I'm not saying all crackers modding to the games was bad, I just think he took it too far...

Melifluous

02-12-2003, 16:21

quote:Originally posted by col

Let not your view of Cracker's perceived failings blind you to the real and considerable strenghts of what he achieved.

[lol][lol][lol][lol][lol][lol][lol]

Man I know you like to take the high moral line Col but this made me laugh so much I posted! [:O][:O][:O]

Hitler almost unified the whole of Europe but he was still an asshole...

Cracker was an asshole. He had the lovability of a dobbermans ass and a personality to match...

... I tried really hard and offered to help in his GOTM kinda thing and was told that I couldnt 'score points' that way ...

...I joined in on GOTM troubleshooting threads and helped some lamers that couldn't use explorer and was told to leave it be...

Cracker leaving? Let's have a fucking big party and laugh ourselves stupid all at once...

Melifluous

col

02-12-2003, 17:21

You miss my point, Meli. I'm not referring to Cracker personally at all. I'm talking about the games he created which - as I recall - you used to cream yourself over....

yndy

02-12-2003, 20:04

Hey, the display of appreciation for cracker is staggering on this forum :D. I supported him and played all the mods (even if I pm-ed complaints pretty often). I'm sure you will agree that several good players emerged from the GOTM in the last months.
I for one couldn't climb to the top ten even if all those players you mentioned left. It could be me getting worst though...

ProPain

02-12-2003, 20:06

quote:Originally posted by col

All you have to do is follow a fairly strightforward set of instructions. Sadly one or two idiots couldnt and always ended up moaning in the forum. This might give a misleading impression.

Well I must be an idiot then because that auto-installation sure as hell didnt work for me because I didnt use default (programm files) directory.

col

02-12-2003, 20:54

Neither do I PP. Different drive and different folder.

People often did what they thought they were supposed to rather than what they were told to do. Its one of the things that pissed off the whole GOTM team who spent most of their time baling out folk that cant or wont read. :P

ProPain

02-12-2003, 22:16

quote:Originally posted by col

People often did what they thought they were supposed to rather than what they were told to do.

...baling out folk that cant or wont read. :P

Well thanks Col. Not only I'm an idiot I'm also not able or willing to read the stuff and I'm just doing what I'm think I'm supposed to do. Nice. Just my luck I didnt post in the GOTM forum back then. [:P]

But, since you do have time to read this forum, you might wanna take a look at the mail I send you regarding the IRO SG. Or just check the thread in Killers forum. Either way we're wondering if you still wanna play or not.

Matrix

02-12-2003, 22:34

Chill.

Lt. Killer M

02-12-2003, 22:39

ahem, I must say that in the beginning, cracker gave instructions but had faulty files, then told people they made a msitake
then, he had typos in the instructions

then I quit

so I must back PP here.

Pastorius

02-12-2003, 22:42

quote:Originally posted by Stapel

I just read the goodbye thread on cfc. We all think cracker wasn't 100% suitable as a mod, but we do think he did a great job on the GOTM it self.

I completely disagree with the last part, but seem to stand alone with that?

May I remind you that 6 webpages were needed to say:

-download this modpack
-download this modpack
-download this save

I can do that in three lines! I don't think it is me being brilliant here! I once started a gotm. Within 15 turns, I had to fight clouds..... That did it! Goodbye GOTM for me! People that make me read through 6 pages of bullshit, to tell someting that can be told in 3 lines, and then want me to fight clouds....

How in the world can that be considered a good job?

My my, that is some effective work there Stapel ;)
Hey, wanna come work as a moderator for me [:p]

Seriously -
I was interested in joining the GOTM back in the days where it was not MOTM, and I was interested in submitting to the tournament as well, but cracker did annex it and pulled it into gotm, making it a motm kind of game.

My sentiments are somewhat similar to those of many of you in this thread, though I d rather choose some diplomatic terms ;)

I compliment C on trying to be thorough, strongly dislike the moderation of the games, and especially dislike how he attacked anyone who brought an opinion into a discussion, when that differed from his (ref: "Anarres vs Cracker" on several occations, among others)

The last thing, as I am a part time civver, and not as good as most of you - making a game more about mathematics than about entertainment takes away the enjoyment of a game for many people. Whileas I find taking the quasi-scientific approach to a game ok, I suppose some potential players might have found Cracker's methods to favor those who sought out to crack the gameplay down to milking rather than to play for the excitement of it. If I was a newbie, I would feel discouraged to see the spoilers where rather advanced strategies were displayed. I dont do hardcore MMing myself - yet, but I think being here will make me learn to do it eventually, but not because I am pushed into doing so (more probably because you will laugh at me after beating me for the Nth time, till I do [:p])

Just some thoughts off the top of my head at the moment, not really thought through, but I couldnt just S P A M here could I [:p]

col

02-12-2003, 22:53

Well there are certainly a lot of strong emotions aroused. As a CFC staff memeber, you know I cant and wont comment on Cracker's moderating style. What he did do was rescue a competition that was on the point of collapsing because of the sheer number of submissions and because certain individuals simply cheated to win prizes. He put together a team that turned things round and implemented methods of detecting reloading and other cheats. He restored credibility to a competition that lacked it. Further he brought the Mac group into the Civ community.

I have read dozens of comments in the GOTM staff forum from players complaining that a GOTM wouldnt install. In almost every case it was because they had done something wrong. In the rare other cases, fixes were found within hours. I understand that some players didnt like playing the Romans wih the civilopedia in Latin. For me it was a blast. The Med melee with new units brought something fresh. The Korean game was excellent. The Mongol hordes were a stroke of genius. All of these games were real game playing experiences that many owe to Cracker. He had plenty of faults - but he did a lot right too.

ProPain

02-12-2003, 23:15

Maybe I need to clear things up:

I was only commenting on my experience with the autoinstall utility, saying nothing about Cracker. Also didn't intend to do so.

Second post just a reaction to yours. Implying I dont read carefully [crazyeye] can't let that slide. [hammer]

But more importantly : How about the Iroquois Succesion Game!!!!???? We miss you!!

Pastorius

02-12-2003, 23:51

quote:Originally posted by col

Well there are certainly a lot of strong emotions aroused. As a CFC staff memeber, you know I cant and wont comment on Cracker's moderating style. What he did do was rescue a competition that was on the point of collapsing because of the sheer number of submissions and because certain individuals simply cheated to win prizes. He put together a team that turned things round and implemented methods of detecting reloading and other cheats. He restored credibility to a competition that lacked it. Further he brought the Mac group into the Civ community.

I have read dozens of comments in the GOTM staff forum from players complaining that a GOTM wouldnt install. In almost every case it was because they had done something wrong. In the rare other cases, fixes were found within hours. I understand that some players didnt like playing the Romans wih the civilopedia in Latin. For me it was a blast. The Med melee with new units brought something fresh. The Korean game was excellent. The Mongol hordes were a stroke of genius. All of these games were real game playing experiences that many owe to Cracker. He had plenty of faults - but he did a lot right too.

Good points! Certainly none here would expect a gentleman like yourself to be less of a gentleman, Col ;)

- he deserves credit for maintaining the GOTM, better in some form than in no form I guess
- he deserves credit to some extent for using the [hammer] on those cheating. To some extent, that is where I agree the most with his opinions (though I ll also say he went too far on some issues)
- he deserves credit for keeping an eye out for details of course, like in the examples mentioned by Col.

I guess I would have had a slightly different opinion had he reduced the attitude I felt was condecending (I hope that is the correct word..) There is nothing wrong with having a strong opinion, even when others disagree, but imho, one should be humble, yet strong :)

One thing I thought was peculiar tho - given his disliking PTW, and well obviously his issues with certain aspects of C3C, some of the MOTM have some resemblance to elements in Conquests. [hmm] perhaps just a coincidence though.

Moonsinger

03-12-2003, 05:33

quote:Originally posted by Paalikles
One thing I thought was peculiar tho - given his disliking PTW, and well obviously his issues with certain aspects of C3C, some of the MOTM have some resemblance to elements in Conquests. [hmm] perhaps just a coincidence though.
Perhaps, Conquests stole those ideas from Cracker because Cracker was messing around with those mod ideas long before they started to work on Conquests.[ponder]

Matrix

03-12-2003, 10:20

Can I summarize it this way?
Cracker good: he dealt with cheaters firmly.
Cracker bad: he wasn't open for different opinions and lacked social skills.
Cracker controversial: the mods: end of the GOTM for some, but wonderful for others.

Pastorius

03-12-2003, 10:49

quote:Originally posted by Moonsinger

quote:Originally posted by Paalikles
One thing I thought was peculiar tho - given his disliking PTW, and well obviously his issues with certain aspects of C3C, some of the MOTM have some resemblance to elements in Conquests. [hmm] perhaps just a coincidence though.
Perhaps, Conquests stole those ideas from Cracker because Cracker was messing around with those mod ideas long before they started to work on Conquests.[ponder]

Guess I should have modified that part a little. That's just as likely I guess...The hmm smiley implied I thought he was stealing ideas, and that wasnt my point...oh well

Darkness

03-12-2003, 11:36

Ribannah

03-12-2003, 14:52

quote:Originally posted by Matrix

Can I summarize it this way?
Cracker good: he dealt with cheaters firmly.
Cracker bad: he wasn't open for different opinions and lacked social skills.
Cracker controversial: the mods: end of the GOTM for some, but wonderful for others.

Almost ... you forgot about the people who were wrongly accused of cheating only because of a high number of playing sessions. ;)
And about the allowance he made for many exploits.

Otoh, you forgot to mention as good the quality of the games, the streamlining of the spoiler threads and the fact that games and results appeared regularly, something we tend to take for granted.
To be totally fair, you did a good job there yourself when you ran the competition! :)

Stapel

03-12-2003, 16:54

WildFire

03-12-2003, 20:02

I hated the mods. My other computer could barely stand them, so I quit.

Matrix

04-12-2003, 14:37

quote:Originally posted by Ribannah

Almost ... you forgot about the people who were wrongly accused of cheating only because of a high number of playing sessions. ;)
We've talked about this through PM. You were a cheater and have no right to speak! [xx(]
quote:Originally posted by Stapel

What about using 6 webpages for something that can be said in 3 lines?
Yes, that was terribly annoying too. [sad] His posts were also awfully long and it took far too long for me to understand them, while most of his posts could've easily be summarized to just one smily: http://www.straland.com/images/smilies/gripe.gif

Pastorius

04-12-2003, 15:06

[rotfl] that's one funky smiley - have TF install it at once (at CFC) [lol]
Fits perfectly to some posts.
Some of those posts were reading excersises for us humble Norwegians - and whenever I understood what he was going on about, on many occations that smiley sums it up

Edit: PP added it to CDZ - sweet :)

ProPain

04-12-2003, 15:13

Added that smiley and took the liberty to rename it [ rant ] [rant]

Ribannah

04-12-2003, 15:47

quote:Originally posted by Matrix
You were a cheater and have right to speak! [xx(]

Dear Matrix,

I wasn't talking about my case here in particular (I really wasn't the only victim!), but about Cracker's clearly expressed view that he didn't care about some people being wrongly accused if that was the price to pay to get rid of the true cheaters. IMHO that is way over the line.

But since you choose to renew the accusation, I'm happy that you at least give me a chance to speak, Cracker didn't give me that chance!

So let's get the facts straight.
Fortunately, there is only one: I never cheated.
If you claim I did, prove it; I can send you my detailed log files if you want them. Cracker never tried.

Edit: [fdevil][estwing] Hahaha! You just edited in the word 'no'. See who's cheating here! [lol][nono][rotfl][rolleyes]

Matrix

04-12-2003, 18:11

I made a typo (seriously!) and wanted to say that you have no right to speak. [rolleyes] However, I can imagine cracker didn't gave a chance to defend yourself. But you told me yourself that you indeed reloaded. End of story.

col

04-12-2003, 18:23

Can o' worms best left unopened ...

Ribannah

04-12-2003, 18:29

Well, that's too bad then, since who are you to deny somebody the right to speak?

Reloading is not cheating. Even in the GOTM it is explicitly allowed to reload in certain cases, for instance after a computer crash or when you hit the wrong key by mistake. It is only cheating if you reload to get a better result. I have never done that, not even in practice games, nor did I ever say I did.

You may have gotten confused though because Cracker consistently used the term 'reloading' when he was really talking about 'loading'. It has already been mentioned that his language was
a little obscure.

quote:Originally posted by col

Can o' worms best left unopened ...

Matrix can close it again anytime he wants to.

Matrix

04-12-2003, 18:35

Ask ainwood to get permission to play the GOTM again. If he does, I take back everything I said. But for now this is a 'wellus-nietus'-discussion. ("is-so/is-not-so discussion"?)

Ribannah

04-12-2003, 18:48

The burden of proof lies with the accusor, it's not an "is"/"is not" discussion.

And I already have permission to play the GOTM.

col

04-12-2003, 19:53

As far as I'm concerned, the case against Ribannah is proven. She and I have exchanged many PMs about it in the past and I really dont want to go back over that ground again. I will however state for the record that it was not Cracker who assembled the evidence of her cheating. But it was he who publicly did the unpleasant deed of banning Ribannah.

Ribannah

04-12-2003, 20:21

Not only did Cracker not assemble any evidence - thanks for making that clear - nobody did. There was none. There were only statistics, with nobody on the staff educated enough to interpret or present them correctly.

Edit: But if you want to try and make a case, go ahead. If not, please believe whatever you want to believe in silence.

My ban from CivFanatics has, by the way, been lifted a long time ago.

Kemal

04-12-2003, 21:20

One point I'd like to mention: regardless of whether you've cheated or not Ribannah, the issues with your game (as pointed out to me by cracker) were of such a nature that banning them from the results was a valid and perfectly logical decision that was made by cracker as gotm moderator at that time.

A line has to be drawn at some points in these matters, to prevent the competition from losing its credibility. The result is that if you can't finish games without them constantly being characterized by suspicious events and parameters (be it reloads, sessions played or something else), you're out of the competition.

Seems perfectly understandable to me. I've had problems with some of cracker's decisions during his reign as gotm moderator, but not with this one.

Ribannah

04-12-2003, 21:36

Like I said, Cracker's point of view was that he was willing to sacrifice some people, me being one of them, for what he considered the 'greater good'. Apparently you share that view.

I have been a tournament director myself for years and would never have done something horrid like thrashing innocent individuals just for appearance's sake.

It doesn't work either. Cracker's goal was to give people the impression that cheating was not tolerated in the GOTM, but instead people concluded that cheating was rampant. The truth is that there is cheating going on in the GOTM, but not more or less than elsewhere; all this validation nonsense hasn't made a shred of difference.

And in my case all Cracker had to do was to refrain from posting individual session counts. He could have made a single group of 'less than 10 turns per session' and nobody would have thought anything about it.

Skyfish

04-12-2003, 22:22

Must...refrain...from....posting....[V]

Melifluous

05-12-2003, 08:40

Aw go on Skyfish...

[}:)] Or have you gone soft you French faggot [}:)]

Melifluous

ERIKK

05-12-2003, 09:19

quote:Originally posted by Melifluous

Aw go on Skyfish...
[}:)] Or have you gone soft you French faggot [}:)]
[lol][mwaha]

Darkness

05-12-2003, 10:55

@Ribannah:
Why do you keep on nagging about this?
It was proven you cheated. Period.
It wasn't cracker who gathered the evidence against you, it was Aeson (who is IMHO very clear and honest in his approach towards validating games) and he basically had to convince cracker to take action, because cracker didn't want to create a riot (which it became because of your pm bombardment of all others who posted in the thread that cracker posted about this subject, myself included). I also know that others were consulted before any action was undertaken in this case, like Bamspeedy for example, who is IMHO also very fair and honest.

So now you can play the GOTM again. So try it again and good luck! But let's leave this subject buried. It was finished a long time ago...

Ribannah

05-12-2003, 12:19

Dear Darkness,

First of all, it was Matrix who brought it up, not I, and I understand that he has now corrected his view.

Then first Col, and now you, chose to renew the accusation. You really can't expect me to ignore that.

You claim that it was proven that I cheated, yet no proof was ever presented. But maybe you have more information than the rest of us?
If so, please share it or go sit in a corner and stay forever silent on this topic.

Cracker's accusation that I used a PM-bombardment was a lie, and so were Bamspeedy's 'data' on my supposedly extraordinary luck (if anything, I had more bad than good luck), which can easily be checked from my submitted game logs.

col

05-12-2003, 12:34

Yeah - its all one big conspiracy I suppose. [rolleyes]

Ribannah

05-12-2003, 12:47

No, it's not. It was a carefully planned action by one man (from a staff member: he had been planning it since January), who knows how to manipulate others and to abuse his powers. People like yourself are simply too gullible when it comes to statements from authorities.

But many others did not fall for it and saw it for what it was.

Stapel

05-12-2003, 12:48

[lol] As I am completely neutral in this matter, I think I can be the jury!

I find the defended...... rampahpahrampahpah......

GUILTY

Furthermore, I enjoy opened cans of worms! Go on please :) !

Stapel

05-12-2003, 12:52

Yeah Col, you are simply too gullible when it comes to statements from authorities. Just what I wanted to say for a long time ;) .

ERIKK

05-12-2003, 12:59

quote:Originally posted by Stapel

[lol] As I am completely neutral in this matter, I think I can be the jury!

I find the defended...... rampahpahrampahpah......

GUILTY

Furthermore, I enjoy opened cans of worms! Go on please :) !
Maybe some links to the threads on CFC would help???

Stapel

05-12-2003, 13:01

sure

Darkness

05-12-2003, 13:07

@Ribannah:
I think I'll believe Aeson and Bamspeedy (and col and Matrix). No offense intended of course...
I'm not saying you should keep quiet, I'm just saying it does no good to act the way you are doing now. Everybody? (well, most of us anyway) believes otherwise...

Why do you lay all this at crackers feet? It was AESON who proved to cracker you cheated and that data was verified by Bamspeedy.
No, I haven't seen any of it myself, but I have a right to express an opinion on this matter (based on what I believe to be true) and I have stated that opinion repeatedly (also at CFC, in response to which I got a lovely 'hate pm' from you)...

col

05-12-2003, 13:10

Anyone ever had an archer walk straight to a enemy capital and take them out, then head straight to another capital, pause a turn or two, then take them out, generating a leader to build Pyramids? Me neither.

Ribannah

05-12-2003, 13:11

quote:Originally posted by ERIKK
Maybe some links to the threads on CFC would help???

Hi Erikk,

Since we seem to attract some attention from the uninformed, that may be a good idea. :D
There was only one thread at CFC:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=e878833009a13ad85ed216e7c3ee9907&threadid=55571

Darkness

05-12-2003, 13:15

@col:

Damn. I was kinda hopingh you could teach me that strategy... [lol]

Lt. Killer M

05-12-2003, 13:16

quote:Originally posted by col

Anyone ever had an archer walk straight to a enemy capital and take them out, then head straight to another capital, pause a turn or two, then take them out, generating a leader to build Pyramids? Me neither.

the few turns wait are a dead giveaway - unless there is a good explanation (like, an enemy units is in position to attack and you wait for it to march off before you go to war). Ribannah - what about it?

Ribannah

05-12-2003, 13:19

quote:Originally posted by col

Anyone ever had an archer walk straight to a enemy capital and take them out, then head straight to another capital, pause a turn or two, then take them out, generating a leader to build Pyramids? Me neither.

Neither have I. I never got an early leader in the GOTM, whereas others seem to get two or more on a regular basis. The Pyramids are built brick by brick in my games!

Darkness

05-12-2003, 13:24

quote:Originally posted by Ribannah

No, it's not. It was a carefully planned action by one man (from a staff member: he had been planning it since January), who knows how to manipulate others and to abuse his powers. People like yourself are simply too gullible when it comes to statements from authorities.

But many others did not fall for it and saw it for what it was.

OK, so now you're saying cracker planned (from january) to kick you out of the GOTM and that a staff member told you that?
Why would cracker want to do that? And don't go spilling any bullshit about misusing his authority! Oh, and what staff member would that be? It's always nice to spread some rumours as you are doing now, but try backing them up... I'd like to see that staff member confirm what you just posted... :D

And which others did not fall for it? Where's your support? [crazyeye]

What I can't understand is the fact that you continue to say that cracker wanted you gone, but cracker wasn't the one who caught you cheating. That was Aeson! So, are you going to accuse Aeson now...? [crazyeye]

col

05-12-2003, 13:25

The lone archer taking out two civs in gotm18 was well documented. The pause was a giveaway waiting for the right random number. Your reload ratio was very high and the turn that those reloads occurred was a dead giveaway too. Did you know that when reloading occurs is detectable?

Ribannah

05-12-2003, 13:25

quote:Originally posted by Lt. Killer M

quote:Originally posted by col

Anyone ever had an archer walk straight to a enemy capital and take them out, then head straight to another capital, pause a turn or two, then take them out, generating a leader to build Pyramids? Me neither.

the few turns wait are a dead giveaway - unless there is a good explanation (like, an enemy units is in position to attack and you wait for it to march off before you go to war). Ribannah - what about it?

I can think of many good reasons, but the fact is that I didn't wait before may attack on Paris. It was virtually undefended.
Here is the pic, would you not have attacked in this situation?
http://home.hccnet.nl/g.den.broeder/ribannah/Civilization/gotm/gotm18/GOTM18_2150bc_mini.jpg
The situation in 2150 BC.

By the way, this wan't the game after which I was banned. :D

col

05-12-2003, 13:29

quote:Originally posted by Ribannah
[By the way, this wan't the game after which I was banned. :D

No - you were given the benefit of the doubt that time. But you persisted, didnt you? Maybe you thought no-one would ever be able to prove anything. Maybe you thought you could get away with it.

A review of several of your times was made in the staff forum and the uninimous agreement was that your cheating was clear.

Ribannah

05-12-2003, 13:33

quote:Originally posted by col

The lone archer taking out two civs in gotm18 was well documented. The pause was a giveaway waiting for the right random number. Your reload ratio was very high and the turn that those reloads occurred was a dead giveaway too. Did you know that when reloading occurs is detectable?

I know. And feel free to judge for yourself and see if there is a 'dead giveaway'. In the situation above, well documented in the submitted log, my last load was made in 2750 BC, and the next one was in 1790 BC.

Edit:

quote:A review of several of your times was made in the staff forum and the uninimous agreement was that your cheating was clear.
I know for a fact (two independent sources) that this is not true.

col

05-12-2003, 13:38

I read no dissent at all in there. I find it hard to believe that you are accusing Aeson of wanting to kick you out. Why would he? What could he possibly have to gain??

Beam

05-12-2003, 13:39

quote:Originally posted by Ribannah

quote:Originally posted by ERIKK
Maybe some links to the threads on CFC would help???

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=e878833009a13ad85ed216e7c3ee9907&threadid=55571

Holy J., do I need to read crackers posts to understand this issue? [book][goggle][scratch]

Darkness

05-12-2003, 13:40

quote:Originally posted by Ribannah
By the way, this wan't the game after which I was banned. :D

No, you were banned after GOTM19, which included a lovely suicide galley trip, while miraculously evading barbarian units...

From a pm by cracker to me, after I had reported Ribannah's 'hate pm' to him (they used my GOTM19 to compare with Ribannah's when they looked for cheating on her part):
In your Gotm19 game you had galley exploration encounters that were exactly as anticipated and used the defined fog gap to cross and contact india with substantial risks and losses. In Ribannahs game, this sequence was different an followed a path that basically connect 5 dots that represented the only possible move sequence that would not result in an encounter with a deadly barbarian feature and still resuly in full contact with the other civlizations in order to exactly meet the cutoff date for the QSC event.

Ribannah

05-12-2003, 13:43

quote:Originally posted by col

I read no dissent at all in there. I find it hard to believe that you are accusing Aeson of wanting to kick you out. Why would he? What could he possibly have to gain??

I have not accused Aeson of anything.
Please Col, get your facts straight. This is your fourth blatant lie in as many posts. [nono]

Darkness

05-12-2003, 13:46

So, now col is in the conspiracy against you as well? [rolleyes]

Skyfish

05-12-2003, 13:46

quote:"You claim that it was proven that I cheated, yet no proof was ever presented"

You say that because you know perfectly well that there is no scientific way to prove you cheated, except by having someone
sit behind you IRL and watch every single move you take.
Using that argument is already indirectly admitting to cheating.

quote:"Cracker's accusation that I used a PM-bombardment was a lie"

No YOU are lying because I was on the other side of that bombardment so I know FOR SURE you are a lier, the step to cheater is not that big...

quote:Bamspeedy's 'data' on my supposedly extraordinary luck (if anything, I had more bad than good luck), which can easily be checked from my submitted game logs

First a game log does not prove anything at all so your remark does not make sense and second it is precisely your spoilers/gamelogs that convinced everyone you are a cheater ! [lol]

quote:"By the way, this wan't the game after which I was banned"

So we come to the main point, you have had incredible luck not once, not twice, not thrice but *every* single game Ribannah that is why everybody is convinced you are a cheater and NOBODY believes you, still today.

Your attempt to convince us is pretty sad actually, you think that by persisting continuously we might believe you after a while because u could be an innocent victim
but actually you would have my utter respect if you were man enough to admit your faults (everybody is human...), you stayed long enough in purgatory now that we might actually accept you back in our community.
Your actions right now means this will never happen...

Just leave it, concentrate on your new game and forget about us, because tomorrow we will have forgotten about you, OK ?

Lt. Killer M

05-12-2003, 13:46

quote:Originally posted by Ribannah

quote:Originally posted by col

I read no dissent at all in there. I find it hard to believe that you are accusing Aeson of wanting to kick you out. Why would he? What could he possibly have to gain??

I have not accused Aeson of anything.
Please Col, get your facts straight. This is your fourth blatant lie in as many posts. [nono]

careful, Ribannah, the word 'lie' should not be thrown around so easily - it implies intention!

Skyfish

05-12-2003, 13:50

To accuse col of lying, now thats rich, watch out that you dont step over the edge....
[mad3]

col

05-12-2003, 13:50

Who is your mysterious staff member then, Ribannah? Aeson assembled the evidence and presented the case in the GOTM staff forum.

Darkness

05-12-2003, 13:51

I was on the receiving end of your PM-bombardment as well, Ribannah, just like another 2 dozen or so people who responded to that thread at CFC. I've still got that lovely PM in my PM box at CFC actually, and I just re-read it. It contains the same complete nonsense you're now posting here. Everybody except you agrees on this issue. So just move on...

@sky: I doubt she's 'man' enough actually... [lol]

Ribannah

05-12-2003, 13:52

quote:Originally posted by Darkness

quote:Originally posted by Ribannah
By the way, this wan't the game after which I was banned. :D

No, you were banned after GOTM19, which included a lovely suicide galley trip, while miraculously evading barbarian units...

From a pm by cracker to me, after I had reported Ribannah's 'hate pm' to him (they used my GOTM19 to compare with Ribannah's when they looked for cheating on her part):
In your Gotm19 game you had galley exploration encounters that were exactly as anticipated and used the defined fog gap to cross and contact india with substantial risks and losses. In Ribannahs game, this sequence was different an followed a path that basically connect 5 dots that represented the only possible move sequence that would not result in an encounter with a deadly barbarian feature and still resuly in full contact with the other civlizations in order to exactly meet the cutoff date for the QSC event.
Interesting PM, thanks for that!
But again, you are too gullible. It's another lie. First, I didn't contact India, but Spain, and got contact with India from them. All my Galley had to do for that was to survive one turn in the ocean. There were no 'Barbarian features' hindering that after some Fogs were removed.

Darkness

05-12-2003, 13:52

quote:Originally posted by col

Who is your mysterious staff member then, Ribannah? Aeson assembled the evidence and presented the case in the GOTM staff forum.

I asked her that too, maybe 10 posts back... I doubt she can produce a name, much less a confirmation from that staff member...

col

05-12-2003, 13:55

I find the focus on Cracker interesting. Cracker was the visible front face of the GOTM team and dealt with the public but he was not the prime mover here and had to be convinced that action was necessary. He put himself in the firing line and drew that flak because he was the public face of GOTM. The GOTM crew operate as a team. All such decisions are subject to intensive scrutiny and review. The idea that one individual could have it in for someone and get then thrown out is laughable and shows a pretty deep ignorance of how GOTM operates.

Darkness

05-12-2003, 13:55

quote:Originally posted by Ribannah
There were no 'Barbarian features' hindering that after some Fogs were removed.

That is such a load of crap!!!! [eek]
There were at least 2 squids in that area...

Lt. Killer M

05-12-2003, 13:57

quote:Originally posted by Darkness

quote:Originally posted by Ribannah
There were no 'Barbarian features' hindering that after some Fogs were removed.

That is such a load of crap!!!! [eek]
There were at least 2 squids in that area...

they commited suicide! [:p][estwing]

Ribannah

05-12-2003, 13:58

quote:Originally posted by Darkness

I was on the receiving end of your PM-bombardment as well, Ribannah, just like another 2 dozen or so people who responded to that thread at CFC. I've still got that lovely PM in my PM box at CFC actually, and I just re-read it. It contains the same complete nonsense you're now posting here. Everybody except you agrees on this issue. So just move on...

@sky: I doubt she's 'man' enough actually... [lol]

I sent about 12 PM's, most of them replies to a PM I received. Most contacts were amicable, too.

Skyfish

05-12-2003, 13:59

It s scientifically proven that mythomania is just a byproduct of paranoia.

Accusing everyone of "lying", using that word incessantly, grossly exagerating, that only proves our point, you are digging your own grave as usual.

Ribannah, I have told you before to seek therapeutic advice and this is not a pun, I am serious.

Chieftess

05-12-2003, 14:02

Delurking... Well, this OT thread just went OT... If this were CFC, I think this thread would be closed, with a few warnings or bannings. :)

Lt. Killer M

05-12-2003, 14:03

quote:Originally posted by Chieftess

Delurking... Well, this OT thread just went OT... If this were CFC, I think this thread would be closed, with a few warnings or bannings. :)

luckily, this is not CFC OT. there, things never get discussed to the end, so myths and all persist........

anarres

05-12-2003, 14:06

Aren't you all getting bored of this subject yet? [???]

Believe it or not, I actually don't give a toss. What is apparent is that people have made their decisions some time ago (rightly or wrongly), and nothing is going to change those decisions now. This debate is pointless.

One thing I will say about cracker: I believe that he did have personal grudges against people, and that is based on things that have nothing to do with Ribannah. Note that I am aware I don't have all the info, but my personal experience with cracker has led me to believe that he can and will twist facts to his little cause (like saying that DrA made his graphics mod so that he could cheat).

Again, I want to stress that I don't have an opinion on this matter. My comments about cracker are actually the only on topic comments in the last 30 posts or so. :D

P.S. You should be spending your time on my Logic Puzzle (http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1158) instead! [groucho]

Ribannah

05-12-2003, 14:06

quote:Originally posted by Skyfish
You say that because you know perfectly well that there is no scientific way to prove you cheated

It is, however, possible to calculate expected values of average outcomes (from battle odds and other events) and indicate whether a player indeed had extraordinary luck. If such a calculation would have shown that that was the case, one could say that the decision was warranted.

However, no such attempt was made by the staff, and in fact when you do these calculations (I did) you will see that, as I stated before, my luck was below average.

Skyfish

05-12-2003, 14:10

Interesting point CT !
Of course we are getting close to the end of this thread but the whole conversation stayed pretty correct, no real flaming at all.
So who would you ban or warn and for what reason ?

Lt. Killer M

05-12-2003, 14:11

quote:Originally posted by Ribannah

quote:Originally posted by Skyfish
You say that because you know perfectly well that there is no scientific way to prove you cheated

It is, however, possible to calculate expected values of average outcomes (from battle odds and other events) and indicate whether a player indeed had extraordinary luck. If such a calculation would have shown that that was the case, one could say that the decision was warranted.

However, no such attempt was made by the staff, and in fact when you do these calculations (I did) you will see that, as I stated before, my luck was below average.

combat luck below average doesn't play into this: you ALWAYS found the RIGHT AI at the RIGHT TIME with the RIGHT defender to win.

Lt. Killer M

05-12-2003, 14:12

quote:Originally posted by Skyfish

Interesting point CT !
Of course we are getting close to the end of this thread but the whole conversation stayed pretty correct, no real flaming at all.
So who would you ban or warn and for what reason ?

yes, I'd like to know that, too!

col

05-12-2003, 14:12

quote:Originally posted by anarres
[brMy comments about cracker are actually the only on topic comments in the last 30 posts or so. :D

I disagree. [aargh]

Ribannah

05-12-2003, 14:13

quote:Originally posted by Darkness
There were at least 2 squids in that area...

In my game the two squids were near Rome, and my Galley did meet them there.

anarres

05-12-2003, 14:15

Whoops! Sorry Col. Maybe I meant that my post was the only one worth reading? [mwaha] [satan]

col

05-12-2003, 14:16

Then threaded the needle making the exact and unlikely sequence of moves that would give you a contact with the other continent before 1000bc.

Enough. We've been here before and nothing has changed or will change. Cracker has gone and Ainwood has taken over.

Ribannah

05-12-2003, 14:16

quote:Originally posted by Lt. Killer M
You ALWAYS found the RIGHT AI at the RIGHT TIME with the RIGHT defender to win.
This time I am clueless. What are these other instances you are talking about?

ERIKK

05-12-2003, 14:20

quote:Originally posted by Ribannah

I have not accused Aeson of anything.
Please Col, get your facts straight. This is your fourth blatant lie in as many posts. [nono]
Come on Guido (are you female?),

dont use that word, noone uses it against you either. We can ask
Aeson here if he is right but I think that I read a post of Aeson in
that thread where he says he analysed the save and made his own
conclusions which he took to the GOTM staff:

Aeson start
This really isn't about cracker convincing anyone on the Staff. Most of the incriminating data was produced by my analysis of games, the various utilities we use, and things Ribannah freely posted in spoiler threads. Cracker spent a lot of time analyzing the games again before making a decision, but it was the same conclusion many of the staff had come to before he did so. (in some cases, several months before) If there was 'convincing' going on, it was the other way around.
Aeson end

So, I think that at least the larger part - if not all - what Col is
trying to tell us (Cracker not acting on his own, no conspiracy etc
etc..) is absolutely true...

It might be better to let it rest as discussions like this wont help
you if you ever want to start a PBEM with one of CDZ's members. CDZ
is, after all, set up for playing PBEM's.

ERIKK

anarres

05-12-2003, 14:20

Seriously, this is old news. No-one will change their mind, and nothing new will be learned.

CT - you are right in that the modding here is 'different', and I for one am glad of this. Maybe if we had 30,000 members this debate could cause other problems of some kind at the site, but until that is the case I can't think of a reason to close this or warn/ban anyone. I also disagree with Skyfish - people are borderline flaming, but fuck it - we're not here to parent people...

Ribannah

05-12-2003, 14:21

quote:Originally posted by col

Then threaded the needle making the exact and unlikely sequence of moves that would give you a contact with the other continent before 1000bc.

Me and a great many other players. These opportunities always occur shortly before 1000 BC, because that is when you have your first ships out. In two other games my Galley sank and I failed.
Given that the yield from succeeding is usually small I have stopped sending suicide Galleys altogether.

Lt. Killer M

05-12-2003, 14:25

quote:Originally posted by Ribannah

quote:Originally posted by Lt. Killer M
You ALWAYS found the RIGHT AI at the RIGHT TIME with the RIGHT defender to win.
This time I am clueless. What are these other instances you are talking about?

your otehr GOTM games where you always had incredible luck. I personally suspect you played on, then chose the best variant.

Lt. Killer M

05-12-2003, 14:25

quote:Originally posted by Ribannah

quote:Originally posted by col

Then threaded the needle making the exact and unlikely sequence of moves that would give you a contact with the other continent before 1000bc.

Me and a great many other players. These opportunities always occur shortly before 1000 BC, because that is when you have your first ships out. In two other games my Galley sank and I failed.
Given that the yield from succeeding is usually small I have stopped sending suicide Galleys altogether.

what othert two games? can you produce GOTM submissions where your galleys sank while other players got through?

Ribannah

05-12-2003, 14:26

quote:Originally posted by ERIKK

quote:Originally posted by Ribannah

I have not accused Aeson of anything.
Please Col, get your facts straight. This is your fourth blatant lie in as many posts. [nono]
Come on Guido (are you female?),
That's my s.o.'s name, silly!
Who, by the way, has watched me play and looked over my shoulder on occcasion.

And you might want to read Col's posts again.

col

05-12-2003, 14:29

I'm sorry, Ribannah. I dont know why you had to resurrect this argument again. I was quite willing to let bygones be bygones but you dont seem able to do that.

Many people had issues with Cracker and the way he dealt with certain things. You case is one of the ones that the vast majority of people feel he got absolutely right.

Skyfish

05-12-2003, 14:40

quote:That's my s.o.'s name, silly!

Sorry but what is an s.o. ? [bluch2]

Ribannah

05-12-2003, 14:42

Dear Col,

I didn't resurrcet the argument. Matrix did, remember? And did I not say that the argument could be closed any time?

Your statement that the vast majority was convinced is kinda cheap. Of course they were, they heard only one side, and a side that misrepresented the facts!

Ribannah

05-12-2003, 14:44

quote:Originally posted by Lt. Killer M

quote:Originally posted by Ribannah

quote:Originally posted by Lt. Killer M
You ALWAYS found the RIGHT AI at the RIGHT TIME with the RIGHT defender to win.
This time I am clueless. What are these other instances you are talking about?
your otehr GOTM games where you always had incredible luck.
You really need to be more specific than that.

Ribannah

05-12-2003, 14:55

quote:Originally posted by Lt. Killer M
can you produce GOTM submissions where your galleys sank while other players got through?

From my GOTM#17 log:

"290 AD $300->$68 Theology in 40. Nora buys a Library, Kerne builds a Settler. "Exploring Galley lost in treacherous waters, with the border of America(?) in sight ..."

The second time was in GOTM#23, which I wasn't allowed to submit.

GOTM#17 was also the only other game in which a suicide galley succeeded.

Lt. Killer M

05-12-2003, 14:55

edit: crosspost with Ribannahs second post

quote:Originally posted by Ribannah

quote:Originally posted by Lt. Killer M

quote:Originally posted by Ribannah

quote:Originally posted by Lt. Killer M
You ALWAYS found the RIGHT AI at the RIGHT TIME with the RIGHT defender to win.
This time I am clueless. What are these other instances you are talking about?
your otehr GOTM games where you always had incredible luck.
You really need to be more specific than that.

sorry to be so rude, Ribannah, but you knwo very well what you reported in your spoilers and where, and you know it is beyond believable. We are not in court here, but to me and many others your reports ALONE are sufficient - 'beyond any reasonable doubt' you cehated. period.

And don't giuve me that shit of 'be more specific - it is you who wants us to believe that you did not do what all evidence points to you did.

Can you now name a SINGLE GOTM SUBMISSION where you report a suicide Galley lost!????????? be specific and name one!

Lt. Killer M

05-12-2003, 14:57

quote:Originally posted by Ribannah

quote:Originally posted by Lt. Killer M
can you produce GOTM submissions where your galleys sank while other players got through?

From my GOTM#17 log:

"290 AD $300->$68 Theology in 40. Nora buys a Library, Kerne builds a Settler. "Exploring Galley lost in treacherous waters, with the border of America(?) in sight ..."

The second time was in GOTM#23, which I wasn't allowed to submit.

GOTM#17 was also the only other game in which a suicide galley succeeded.

in 290 AD this is at a point where it does NOT amtter anymore. ridiculous! show one that matters.

ERIKK

05-12-2003, 15:00

quote:Originally posted by Skyfish

quote:That's my s.o.'s name, silly!
Sorry but what is an s.o. ? [blush2]
[hmm] No reply from Rib?

Me: dunno, might be a term for a fake name or maybe a [u]s</u>ecurity [u]o</u>fficer...? ;)

Ribannah

05-12-2003, 15:04

I already said that it didn't really matter one way or the other in any of my 4 attempts, and that I stopped sending them because of that. But you're shifting position. Are you now claiming that I only had luck when it mattered?
In that case it should be very easy for you to point out these instances.

Lt. Killer M

05-12-2003, 15:15

quote:Originally posted by Ribannah

I already said that it didn't really matter one way or the other in any of my 4 attempts, and that I stopped sending them because of that. But you're shifting position. Are you now claiming that I only had luck when it mattered?
In that case it should be very easy for you to point out these instances.

[lol]

the archer
the galley - both squids draw off AND you hit jsut the right spots
lots of other things in your spoilers

but I am not shifting at all, I think you are smart enough to include a few bad luck and dumb move situations where they matter little so that you look not too obviously lucky.

You also always, in all GOTMs, seem to know just where what is under the fog of war. weird.

Come on, proove you are innocent: play a GOTM with me looking over your should. If then you are so amazingly good I will believe you. Rather, play 5, 4 must be good one may be unlucky.

Deal?

Ribannah

05-12-2003, 15:24

Dear Lt. Killer M.

I have called your bluff.

You could name two instances of luck, only one of them significant, over the course of a great many GOTM games.

Edit: Some details about the Archer gambit, from the battle calculator: the odds of taking Carthage were around 50%, the odds of taking Paris (by the now elite Archer) were over 90%.

You didn't even weigh that against my long streak of bad luck regarding great leaders.

None of the others in this discussion did any better than you.

So, this seems to be a good point to close this thread.

ERIKK

05-12-2003, 15:31

Ok closed! :)

Now..., what is an s.o.?????????????????????????????? [aargh]

[rant]

col

05-12-2003, 15:31

quote:Originally posted by Skyfish

quote:That's my s.o.'s name, silly!

Sorry but what is an s.o. ? [bluch2]

Significant other! aka Partner

Lt. Killer M

05-12-2003, 15:31

quote:Originally posted by Ribannah

Dear Lt. Killer M.

I have called your bluff.

You could name two instances of luck, only one of them significant, over the course of a great many games.

You didn't even weigh that against my long streak of bad luck regarding great leaders.
None of the others in this discussion did any better than you.
So, this seems to be a good point to close this thread.

oh, two incredible, one in a lifetime luck things just HAPPEN to happen in tow GOTM games and you call it a bluff?
a great amny games? there is similar BS in ALL of your games, I just can't be bothered to read your smug lies again!

your long bad luck streaks fit the normal patterns of Civ only too well. Would be a bit too much to read anything into that. I personally have had several games in a row repeatedly without any leaders...... but your GOTMs certainly didn't need leaders at all......

as long as you are not willing to play under supervision to proove yourself I cinsider you a [u]CHEATER</u>

so this is not a good place to close the thread, not at all: you talk about closing jsut the second I offer you a way to proove us wrong - stragne coincidence!

or, if you think it is too much time for me to come to Holland and watch you play, hoe about this: I make a map and you play it, reporting turn by turn the exact mocves and reasons for them here in this forum. exact same. we can then all load the turns and play them.....

Afraid now? your cahcne to proove yourself, come on!

ERIKK

05-12-2003, 15:38

quote:Originally posted by col

Significant other! aka Partner
[:o] Must have been someting like that. If Guido was in fact Killer,
security officer would fit too...

j/k [shabba]

Lt. Killer M

05-12-2003, 15:40

Ribannah, I am waiting.... come on, I have a map ready already.......

Matrix

05-12-2003, 15:42

http://home.zonnet.nl/forum_spam3/thread_related/thread_lock/images/0727.jpg

Lt. Killer M

05-12-2003, 15:45

quote:Originally posted by Matrix

http://home.zonnet.nl/forum_spam3/thread_related/thread_lock/images/0727.jpg

nono, Matrix, this is the nice thing about CDZ, we can and I will pursue this until hse quits or comes through with a game that is good and believable... her chance here!

Ribannah

05-12-2003, 15:49

quote:Originally posted by Lt. Killer M
I make a map and you play it, reporting turn by turn the exact mocves and reasons for them here in this forum. exact same. we can then all load the turns and play them.....
We already have such games. They are called Game of the Month, remember? Maybe Ainwood will let you create one? [lol]

Lt. Killer M

05-12-2003, 15:52

quote:Originally posted by Ribannah

quote:Originally posted by Lt. Killer M
I make a map and you play it, reporting turn by turn the exact mocves and reasons for them here in this forum. exact same. we can then all load the turns and play them.....
We already have such games. They are called Game of the Month, remember? Maybe Ainwood will let you create one? [lol]

you are not so dumb as you pretend now, little cheater! I mena a turn by turn report: warrior moves one tile east. Other warrior moes 1 tile south.

for each and every tunit for each and every turn. tell us hwta tiles your cities use and why etc. so exactly that I cna duplicate your moves on my PC.

Come on, or are you afraid?????

col

05-12-2003, 15:57

It wont help Killer, its quite easy to play ahead then appear to repeat those moves.

ProPain

05-12-2003, 15:59

quote:Originally posted by anarres

CT - you are right in that the modding here is 'different', and I for one am glad of this. Maybe if we had 30,000 members this debate could cause other problems of some kind at the site, but until that is the case I can't think of a reason to close this or warn/ban anyone. I also disagree with Skyfish - people are borderline flaming, but fuck it - we're not here to parent people...

Totally agree with anarres on this. We're small and can afford a more liberate modding line. And I've seen worse flaming.

But personally I'm gonna unsubscribe cause the mailspambomb this thread creates drives me nuts. Water under the bridge people!!

Lt. Killer M

05-12-2003, 16:00

quote:Originally posted by col

It wont help Killer, its quite easy to play ahead then appear to repeat those moves.

oh, each map has a few things where you cannot really give a reason why you do this or that unless you have pre-knowledge. I bet you that she cannot produce a deity win on any map without pre-knowlegde showing.

anarres

05-12-2003, 16:01

quote:Originally posted by ProPain

But personally I'm gonna unsubscribe cause the mailspambomb this thread creates drives me nuts. Water under the bridge people!!The irony being that your post re-subscribed you. :D

Melifluous

05-12-2003, 16:09

Ribannah cheated!

She was fitted up...

We get your point of view Killer ;)

We understand yours Ribannah if you didn't it could be a bit annoying if you actually didn't.

Anyways what happened to people serving their time and then it being forgotten about?

If an ex-con was branded then that would an outrage wouldn't it?
Even if they said they hadn't done it?

Turn it in and move onto the ISDG thread where an interesting question has now been posed...

Melifluous

ProPain

05-12-2003, 16:34

quote:Originally posted by anarres

quote:Originally posted by ProPain

But personally I'm gonna unsubscribe cause the mailspambomb this thread creates drives me nuts. Water under the bridge people!!The irony being that your post re-subscribed you. :D

Yes I noted that.

....Damn now I'm subscribed again[aargh][wallbash]

Ribannah

05-12-2003, 16:41

quote:Originally posted by col

It wont help Killer, its quite easy to play ahead then appear to repeat those moves.

Not if you want to finish within the month ... I think it is actually quite hard by the time you get to 20 cities and 40 units.
For the first 20 turns or so, fine, I can report in detail, but there comes a point where it becomes WORK. Surely we all agree that we need to avoid that at all cost! [evil]

Melifluous

05-12-2003, 16:59